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    F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???


    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89805

    Ferrari also seems to be talking about an F430 replacement in 2008.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    EXCLUSIVE: Ferrari F430 Sales May Be Banned in U.S. for Airbag Issues

    Date posted: 01-14-2006



    WASHINGTON, D.C. - The federal government may ban sales of Ferrari's bread-and-butter F430 in late 2006 unless the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration grants the company a waiver on airbag requirements.

    It isn't that the F430's airbags aren't safe - they meet or exceed most NHTSA guidelines. But the F430 lacks sufficient protection for a small number of female occupants who aren't strapped into the correct position in the event of a crash. The same problem applies to child occupants. If the waiver isn't granted, Ferrari will be unable to sell cars built after September 1, 2006.

    NHTSA suggested the company accelerate production and stockpile pre-September 1 cars to keep dealers supplied with cars for the two remaining years in the F430's production cycle, but Ferrari pointed out that it is already building the cars as quickly as it can to meet demand.

    In its petition, Ferrari details its plans to continue the F430 line until late 2008, when it will "be replaced by a newly designed eight-cylinder model." What that means for rumors of a possible 10-cylinder Lamborghini Gallardo fighter isn't clear.

    Lotus initially expected it would need a similar waiver to sell the Elise in the U.S., but ultimately found it could meet the requirement with off-the-shelf airbag technology. Ferrari, on the other hand, says in its petition that it has extensively tested available components without success. "The issue is not one of cost, but one of impossibility," the document states. (Emphasis added by Ferrari in its filing.)

    "We focused on the work that had been done in an attempt to comply," observed Ferrari North American Corporate General Council Dave Wertheim. "We think there is a very high degree of safety in the car," he emphasized.

    When the wheels of the federal bureaucracy will churn out a decision is anybody's guess. "There is no expected timetable," said Wertheim. What do Ferrari's oddsmakers think it'll decide? "We're cautiously optimistic," he said.

    Waivers have typically been considered the realm of tiny startups and importers of limited numbers of unusual cars. Even though Lotus complied with the airbag requirement, the Elise still required waivers for other elements, such as lighting. The Crosslander SUV under consideration from Romania, for example, will require a waiver for its complete absence of any airbags, which is a much taller order than Ferrari's request.

    Ferrari points out that only 13 percent of its owners have children under the age of 6, so that it is unlikely that many kids will ride in one of the waived cars. Further, the company pledges to provide, free of charge to any customer who requests it, a special child seat which will automatically deactivate the passenger's side airbag. The cars will also feature a manual cutoff switch for the passenger's side airbag.

    If the notion of buying a Ferrari child seat sounds attractive, hold on. At this point that child seat is entirely hypothetical, says Wertheim, and even then it would only be available to those who own the car.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Ferrari details that its F430 will be replaced by a newly designed model in 2008?? that can't be, that wouldn't be fair to current F430 onwers

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Ferrari details that its F430 will be replaced by a newly designed model in 2008?? that can't be, that wouldn't be fair to current F430 onwers




    There is not a single thing that makes sense to me. If the F360's airbags were OK for the US market, how come it would be different for the F430 ???

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    They were probably OK at the time of the F360 but probably not for 2006 legislation standards

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    They were probably OK at the time of the F360 but probably not for 2006 legislation standards



    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    Hamptons said:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89805

    Ferrari also seems to be talking about an F430 replacement in 2008.



    Where is Nick when you "need" him?

    But seriously: if a new F430 comes in 2008, this would be pretty bad for current F430 owners. But relax...if they can't sell any F430 to the US anymore after Sept 1st, I'm pretty sure a new model will be available by 2007 already.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    hyothetically, if ferrari asks porsche to send down some engineers to fix this problem, will porsche agree to it?

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Ferrari details that its F430 will be replaced by a newly designed model in 2008?? that can't be, that wouldn't be fair to current F430 onwers



    That will never happen. The 430 came out in 2004 so I think that the earliest the next model will come will be in 2009 at the earliest. The time between models is usually around 5 years. The Porsche is the same with the Turbo.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Ferrari details that its F430 will be replaced by a newly designed model in 2008?? that can't be, that wouldn't be fair to current F430 onwers



    That would be a four year run, average has been five, but four is not outrageous. Why would it hurt?

    Gary

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:

    But seriously: if a F430 comes in 2008, this would be pretty bad for current F430 owners.



    would this be so unusual? it's the classic 993 life span

    "the best ferrari is the one we still haven't made: the next one" -- enzo ferrari

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    koko said:
    But the F430 lacks sufficient protection for a small number of female occupants who aren't strapped into the correct position in the event of a crash.



    What could this mean?

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Hamptons said:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89805

    Ferrari also seems to be talking about an F430 replacement in 2008.



    Where is Nick when you "need" him?

    But seriously: if a F430 comes in 2008, this would be pretty bad for current F430 owners. But relax...if they can't sell any F430 to the US anymore after Sept 1st, I'm pretty sure a new model will be available by 2007 already.


    Speaking of Nick, he seems to think that the 997 looks like a grandpa. Well, I guess the modern design of his F430 has a "congenital defect" so to speak.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    koko said:
    But the F430 lacks sufficient protection for a small number of female occupants who aren't strapped into the correct position in the event of a crash.



    What could this mean?


    Crash tests are carried out with various size dummies representing different size human figures. (If I remember correctly, one of the standard dummies specified represents the so-called "5 percentile" adult female figure).

    Looks like the F430 could not satisfactorily complete a crash test with a small female dummy in one of the seats. (I would guess from the reference to children that it applies to the passenger seat).

    The press release also mentioned that this applies if the small person is not "correctly positioned", so this is one more reason for your spouse/kid not to slouch in the seat of an F430 with shoes up on the dash.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    koko said:
    But the F430 lacks sufficient protection for a small number of female occupants who aren't strapped into the correct position in the event of a crash.



    What could this mean?



    I had the same question. Why female as opposed to male? Make no mistake the issue will be resolved before any sanctions are imposed. Otherwise, instead of only arresting five CIA agents, the entire CIA apparatus in Italy will be imprisoned.

    Porsche if you recall stopped building CGT for the US because of the airbag issue though I believe it was related to the 2006 requirement of two stage trigger.

    My Ferrari sources had already informed me the likely replcement for the 430 would be in 2009. I did not think it was noteworthy since that is about the life span of models.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    Speaking of Nick, he seems to think that the 997 looks like a grandpa. Well, I guess the modern design of his F430 has a "congenital defect" so to speak.



    Hmmmm. I think that this failure to fulfil airbag requirements denotes that not enough attention was paid to this aspect during development, so it's more a matter of a bad upbringing than a defect at birth.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    "that can't be, that wouldn't be fair to current F430 onwers"

    As a 430 owner, I don't really care when Ferrari come out with the 430 replacement - in fact, the sooner the better. I assume you think the 430s will depreciate sharply when a replacement is announced? Possibly. I've always had the feeling that the 430 was not destined for a long production run. Cheers.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    tdf360 said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Ferrari details that its F430 will be replaced by a newly designed model in 2008?? that can't be, that wouldn't be fair to current F430 onwers



    That would be a four year run, average has been five, but four is not outrageous. Why would it hurt?

    Gary



    I was thinking about the states, in Europe you could and can get a F430 quick, but considering the US is 50% of Ferrari's market and the significant delay in the delivery of the F430 had to US, that would make it a 2-3 year run for US customers or think of the people that are still waiting for one. Thats why I say it can't be, 2008 would be way too early and would make a lot of owners unhappy.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    Speaking of Nick, he seems to think that the 997 looks like a grandpa. Well, I guess the modern design of his F430 has a "congenital defect" so to speak.



    Hmmmm. I think that this failure to fulfil airbag requirements denotes that not enough attention was paid to this aspect during development, so it's more a matter of a bad upbringing than a defect at birth.


    AFAIC, the date that a particular model is released to the public and hits the road is that baby's birthdate. Thus, the reason for my "congenital" comment.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    Speaking of Nick, he seems to think that the 997 looks like a grandpa. Well, I guess the modern design of his F430 has a "congenital defect" so to speak.



    Hmmmm. I think that this failure to fulfil airbag requirements denotes that not enough attention was paid to this aspect during development, so it's more a matter of a bad upbringing than a defect at birth.


    AFAIC, the date that a particular model is released to the public and hits the road is that baby's birthdate. Thus, the reason for my "congenital" comment.



    So in your view, all the development takes place in the womb? That's a standpoint I would have expected from a gynacologist, not a shrink.

    Just different ways of looking at it, I guess.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    WCH said:
    "that can't be, that wouldn't be fair to current F430 onwers"

    As a 430 owner, I don't really care when Ferrari come out with the 430 replacement - in fact, the sooner the better. I assume you think the 430s will depreciate sharply when a replacement is announced? Possibly. I've always had the feeling that the 430 was not destined for a long production run. Cheers.



    I'm curious to see who buys Ferrari in a few years? Will it be Volkswagen/Porsche, will it be Daimlerchrysler? It will be interesting. You don't really think that a small company like Ferrari can survive on a longterm run? They have only two chances: to be taken over by a major player or to substatially increase production. For the sake of interesting models and new technology, I would prefer the first one but as a Porsche addict, I wouldn't say no to the second one either.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    Speaking of Nick, he seems to think that the 997 looks like a grandpa. Well, I guess the modern design of his F430 has a "congenital defect" so to speak.



    Hmmmm. I think that this failure to fulfil airbag requirements denotes that not enough attention was paid to this aspect during development, so it's more a matter of a bad upbringing than a defect at birth.


    AFAIC, the date that a particular model is released to the public and hits the road is that baby's birthdate. Thus, the reason for my "congenital" comment.



    So in your view, all the development takes place in the womb? That's a standpoint I would have expected from a gynacologist, not a shrink.

    Just different ways of looking at it, I guess.


    ICYDK, the term "congenital" refers to "acquired during fetal development." I've already stated my reasoning for using this term. What develpoment takes place after you've purchased your vehicle? Yeah sure, there's breaking a vehicle in, it's scheduled maintenance, and TLC. But, I guess you'd have to be into aftermarket things for "development" after its "birth."

    BTW, shrinks(a.k.a. psychiatrists) and OB/GYNS are both physicians first...

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    "They have only two chances: to be taken over by a major player or to substatially increase production."

    Remember the recent interview in which two Ferrari officials referred to Porsche as "the benchmark" because of its balance sheet, and mentioned that selling more units in more territories should not hurt exclusivity? Those might be indications of the near term strategy.

    I wonder whether Ferrari could be sold - from a political standpoint - to a German, or any other European company. Also, is a sale really necessary if Fiat recovers, and if some of the value of Fiat's equity in Ferrari can be extracted through a public offering of a portion of Ferrari? A sale to the public might be more palatable than a sale to a competing manufacturer.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    BTW, shrinks(a.k.a. psychiatrists) and OB/GYNS are both physicians first...



    ... and Porsche fanatics second.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    tdf360 said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Ferrari details that its F430 will be replaced by a newly designed model in 2008?? that can't be, that wouldn't be fair to current F430 onwers



    That would be a four year run, average has been five, but four is not outrageous. Why would it hurt?

    Gary



    I was thinking about the states, in Europe you could and can get a F430 quick, but considering the US is 50% of Ferrari's market and the significant delay in the delivery of the F430 had to US, that would make it a 2-3 year run for US customers or think of the people that are still waiting for one. Thats why I say it can't be, 2008 would be way too early and would make a lot of owners unhappy.



    Even with delays it would still be a four year model run in the US. The fewer they build, the stronger the resale I would think, making current owners happy.

    Gary

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    BTW, shrinks(a.k.a. psychiatrists) and OB/GYNS are both physicians first...



    ... and Porsche fanatics second.



    When I think about it, I don't know if you guys have got your priorities right.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    koko said:
    But the F430 lacks sufficient protection for a small number of female occupants who aren't strapped into the correct position in the event of a crash.



    What could this mean?



    I had the same question. Why female as opposed to male? Make no mistake the issue will be resolved before any sanctions are imposed. Otherwise, instead of only arresting five CIA agents, the entire CIA apparatus in Italy will be imprisoned.

    Porsche if you recall stopped building CGT for the US because of the airbag issue though I believe it was related to the 2006 requirement of two stage trigger.

    My Ferrari sources had already informed me the likely replcement for the 430 would be in 2009. I did not think it was noteworthy since that is about the life span of models.


    the logical issue would be a presentation in 09 for model year 2010... less than that is disapointing... IMO 5 years is a minimum for cars in this price range

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    tdf360 said:
    Even with delays it would still be a four year model run in the US. The fewer they build, the stronger the resale I would think, making current owners happy.

    Gary



    Not if Ferrari offers a new facelifted and more powerful F430 or F440 (whatever) in 2007. Ferrari can't afford to loose the most important market. So they have no choice, they have to find a solution for the airbag thing or they'll offer a facelift already in early 2007. This would be "deadly" for current F430 owners because value would drop in an instant.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    JMShrink said:
    BTW, shrinks(a.k.a. psychiatrists) and OB/GYNS are both physicians first...



    ... and Porsche fanatics second.



    When I think about it, I don't know if you guys have got your priorities right.


    Boy, Fritz it sounds like you may be an engineer with this kind of logic. I'll spell it out for you. Psychiatrists and Ob/Gyns are physicians first BEFORE they become psychiatrists and Ob/Gyns. I'm explaining the CAREER timeline, not priorities. Nice try.

    Re: F430 possibly banned in the US after Sept 1, 2006???

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    tdf360 said:
    Even with delays it would still be a four year model run in the US. The fewer they build, the stronger the resale I would think, making current owners happy.

    Gary



    Not if Ferrari offers a new facelifted and more powerful F430 or F440 (whatever) in 2007. Ferrari can't afford to loose the most important market. So they have no choice, they have to find a solution for the airbag thing or they'll offer a facelift already in early 2007. This would be "deadly" for current F430 owners because value would drop in an instant.



    I'm not sure if I see too much of a downside in the short term. What are the possible outcomes?

    1. F430's are delayed for a period of time (ie: a month or a year) but they fix the airbag
    There are two kinds of F430's - ones with compliant airbags and the earlier ones that don't. It's an airbag, so a warranty retrofit would probably be available to those that want it. You might get a few people cancelling and buying Gallardo's but it won't be the people who are low on the list. The effect on resale for F430's probably would be negligible until the replacement model is announced in 2008/2009.

    2. A lightly facelifted f430 is introduced very soon.
    Everyone waiting for an F430 would spill over to this new model and demand would still be very strong. Those who own an 'original' F430 now have a model with an unusual history. With a production run of 2 yrs or so, it is hard to say what this will mean for resale. I don't think the airbag issue will affect resale (ie: nobody seems to care when buying a F360 today) but if the F430 is the last V8 available with a 6 spd then the 6 spd owners could have a future collector's item if they hold onto it for a while. Also, if owners think the reduced production means something then fewer will be listed at any given time. If the car is lightly facelifted with few differences, I doubt anyone would sell to get the new model, they would probably wait until 2008/2009 for the next one. Therefore, the supply might get tighter.

     
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