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    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    RC:

    The Panamera Turbo (not S !!!) did 0-60 mph in 3.3 seconds...Car & Driver. indecision

    True but it`s 4wd Smiley

    not mention the price difference


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    Thats exactly my point...such a car needs 4WD. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    I agree, but for a RWD car it`s also an impressive result


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    To be honest given one is RWD and the other is AWD, 0-100 time means little. More interested in looking at real world type in gear acceleration.

    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    RC:

    Thats exactly my point...such a car needs 4WD. 

    What are the 0-120 mph times? That's much more meaningful!


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    Call me sadistic, but I prefer to see cars tested in damp conditions if not full on rain. More real world. :)

    Wet acceleration times would be the minimum standard, it's a number that's reachable by anyone in the real world. Whatever better dry times would be the bonus.


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    REALZEUS:
    RC:

    Thats exactly my point...such a car needs 4WD. 

    What are the 0-120 mph times? That's much more meaningful!

    As far as I remember, 0-125 mph (200 kph) acceleration time was the same. Not to mention, that it is actually not important, the Mercedes E63 AMG with PP was 0.3 seconds faster from 0-125 mph but on the track... Smiley Worst time.

    WIth speed limits in the US and the UK, I'm not sure however how important 0-125 mph accel time is in a real world driving scenario... Smiley

    As I mentioned before, the Panamera Turbo S was faster on a tight track (Sachsenring) than the M5. Did I mention that the Panamera had aprox. 170 kg more weight ?! Smiley Which kind of puts a question to your claim that RWD cars are better on the track. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    A Porsche is bound to be quicker than a BMW (most of the times at least). The fact that Porsche manufactures its most extreme cars with RWD though, is telling of the superiority of that layout for track and dry tarmac driving in general.


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    Regarding 2wdr vs 4wdr - IMO 4-dr sedans, which are driven 99.9% on the road (in all conditions) are better off being 4wdr. Manufacturers would sell more of them if they were.

    While sports cars are more fun with 2wdr and tend NOT to be daily drivers and therefore don't necessarily have to be as practical. Most of us would probably be faster with a 4wdr car on the track but those with the necessary skills prefer 2wdr.

    Again, in my opinion, 0-60mph times are really useless - unless you still like burning rubber, destroying clutches etc. If this is what you like, then 1/4 mile times are much more relevant.

    IMO, in North America, you either look at 1/4 mile times or rolling performance, say from 60-120mph, which is what one usually does when having fun with other vehicles on highways.

    I believe MB AMG has hit the mark better than BMW, with their 5.5litre turbo engine vs 4.4 - bigger displacement equals better torque characteristics. Their cars sound much better and also seem to weigh less than BMW. Not sure why?

    The Panamera is the best/fastest sedan - BUT at a cost!!!


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    1/4 times are not that relevant either in today's times as it is too short. A whole mile would be more relevant. Other than that, it really depends on where you live. In NY or Northern Euro, AWD is an asset during winter time. In Texas or Southern Europe though, not really...


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    REALZEUS:

    1/4 times are not that relevant either in today's times as it is too short. A whole mile would be more relevant. Other than that, it really depends on where you live. In NY or Northern Euro, AWD is an asset during winter time. In Texas or Southern Europe though, not really...

     

    Actually, 1/4 mile times are quite relevant in today's real world. The Americans are know to put a stop light just before highway on-ramp, and the ramp is about 1/4 mile in length :) Not to mention their love of 1/4 mile racing, long enough to discount quite a bit of launch traction problem but short enough that they can race almost anywhere.

    Standing mile on the other hand has no real world equivalent, it's only a measure of a car's acceleration on the whole from standing to almost top speed.

    0-60 is a measure of the time it takes for a car to do from stand still to highway speed in most of the world out side of the unrestricted Autobahn.

    Most of the rolling interval measurements are also within real world usage speed, ie highway passing. Even the rolling to 60mph is also a good judge of a car engine's flexibility, almost a rolling stop then accelerate to highway speed.

    With a much lower highway legal speed limit, the Americans, one of the most vocal car enthusiasts, emphasize the lower end performance quite a bit more than high end, as the top end speed part is almost impossible to achieve without going to jail. Europeans, with easy access of the Autobahn, prefer to judge cars on their top end merits and discount the low end numbers. Different culture. But since the North American market is one of the biggest, car makers have no choice but to cater to them and emphasize more on engines' low end.

     


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

     


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    It`s very quick to 300km/h.... impressive 


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    pjd:

    It`s very quick to 300km/h.... impressive 

    You need to take in consideration the speedo error, which is aprox. 10-15 kph at that speed on european specs cars.

    So if you want to stop the real 0-300 kph time, you need to wait until the speedo shows at least 310 kph.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    So indicated Speed 0-310 (300gps speed) about 46 secs wouldnt call that a Game changer

    Did you see how long the 5the gear is. Almost to 290 km/h
    7 the must be well above 400kmh.....

    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    Sport Auto Hockenheim Lap time of new M5 is in: it is 1:12.9

    http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=613177


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    2011 BMW M5 Review - Chris Harris video for Evo magazine...

    Driven: BMW M5

    What is it?

    You have to ask? The Doctor Who of fast saloon cars, regenerating for the fifth time. It’s also the first M car to have its own internal designation code (the standard 5-series is F10, this is F10M) and the first to use a turbocharged engine developed entirely by BMW Motorsport. (That last bit is a lie, but evo’s policy of not acknowledging the existence of the X5M and X6M must continue to be enforced.)

    Technical highlights?

    A dual clutch gearbox, plus a twin-turbo 4.4-litre V8 motor with the compressors sitting within the engine's vee and using a devilishly clever intake and recirculation system aimed purely at delivering the most responsive force-fed motor fitted to a motor car. The new V8 produces 552bhp and 501lb ft of torque.

    More? Well there’s an active locking differential for the driven rear-wheels (despite rumours of 4WD, this is correct-wheel-drive only, for now at least.) You get six piston brake calipers up front, sticky Michelin Super Sport tyres, a completely new set of suspension components and an 80-litre fuel tank. Overall, we’re told that 80 percent of components are either completely new, or heavily modified, from those you’ll find on a standard 5-series.

    And one technical lowlight: weight. At 1870kg, the new M5 is 90kg heavier than the old car, although it is a bigger machine.

    What’s it like to drive?

    Interesting. Mostly awe-inspiring.

    There is no other powertrain like this in a series production car. Some produce similar results in terms of outright performance, but not in the same manner. It’s perhaps the first car to match the benefits of grossly-turbocharged-low-RPM-performance with high engine speeds. This gives the effect of having a gigantic effective, useable powerband of over 5000rpm because it will pull hard enough in seventh gear -  from just 2000rpm - for the driver to assume he was in fourth. And yet there is still something to be gained from taking it all the way to the 7200rpm redline.

    The relationship with the gearbox is about as harmonious as anyone could have hoped. BMW has learned a lot about double-clutch systems and this is a masterpiece of calibration, one capable of spanning the disparate disciplines of part-throttle chugger and vein-popping, manual-shifting beserker.

    I tried to fool it and make it misbehave, but it wouldn’t. On flat upshifts, the throttle cut fires a great ‘bang’ from the four exhausts. Hit the rev limiter, then back away from the throttle and it sounds like a rally car with anti-lag switched-on.

    The noise needs more space for discussion than we have available, but here’s the outline plot. This car doesn’t have a signature voice like all of its predecessors. In trying to make something musical from an inherently un-musical engine layout, BMW has given the M5 several different voices: under full load at low engine speeds it’s a hollow, almost flat-plane drone. Then there’s a Veyron-esque surging whoosh of low frequency that gives way to a fascinating top-end that owes as much to a highly tuned Impreza as it does any previous M car.

    Steering, dampers and throttle sharpness are all 3-way adjustable. Much of this is unnecessary gimmickry. I want to drive the car in the UK before nailing my colours to the mast – but I couldn’t find a damper setting that did everything I wanted. Comfort did what it said on the tin, but ran-out of control earlier than expected. Sport restored control, but lost more compliance than  expected. Sport Plus was a bucking-bronco.

    The new seats are magnificent, the claimed 28mpg on the combined cycle looks unachievable in normal (fast-ish) driving. The performance is outrageous. I clocked it, perhaps very slightly downhill at 0-100mph in 8.7sec. Throttle response - the way you can make tiny adjustments mid-corner is the best I’ve encountered in a turbo.

    This car takes everything that made the loveable E60 M5 a pain to live with day-to-day, and systematically corrects those problems. It has touring range, torque and a great self-shifting transmission. Oh, the brakes are fine for road use, but butter on a circuit.

    How does it compare?

    No point in answering that until we drive it on UK roads with a revised Jaguar XFR and the new Bi-turbo Mercedes E63 AMG.

    Anything else I need to know?

    Yes. In a first for an M5, you can order it new with a tow-bar. All other questions will be answered in a longer story in issue 163 of the magazine.

    Verdict

    The new M5 takes the usable hyper-saloon to new levels of all-round ability. Some questions hanging over the ride and body-control still need answering when we get one in the UK later this year. But it’s a compelling package...

    Evo video: "Chris Harris gives us his first verdict on the new 'F10' BMW M5, complete with a twin-turbocharged V8 engine and double-clutch gearbox..."

    BMW-M5_Chris-Harris_YouTube-HD-video-link

    BMW-M5_Chris-Harris_evo-first-drive-review

    ...thanks again to Chris Harris!

    Smiley SmileySmiley

    BMW M5 video by Chris Harris at Evo Car Of The Year 2011...

    "There’s never been a bad M5 and BMW isn’t about to break that winning streak with the new version. It ditches the old model’s V10 and necksnap-o-matic gearbox for a twin-turbo V8 and a far superior double clutch ‘box which restores the M5’s ability to cruise along drawing barely more attention than your neighbour’s 520d. 

    Happily, when you poke the buttons to sharpen up throttle response, steering weighting and damper behaviour the M5 becomes slightly or quite significantly more lairy, depending on how much you’d like to drive it like you rented it. Chris Harris spoke fondly of ‘the feeling of wellbeing you get when you drive it for several hours’ (evo 163) and its all round competence easily earns it a place at eCoTY..."

    BMW M5 -- Evo Car Of The Year 2011 -- Chris Harris video link

    BMW M5 -- Evo Car Of The Year 2011 -- Link

    ...many thanks and all due credit to Chris Harris!

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    pride355:

    Sport Auto Hockenheim Lap time of new M5 is in: it is 1:12.9

    http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=613177

    Did you read the test in Sport Auto? Well, impressive time indeed. Just, Michelin PSS are the reason for this awsome time(faster then Panamera Turbo on this track!). But, new M5 would offer not very good wet handling track time as is the case of new 991S. Tires are to blame-they are designed with max dry traction in mind...


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    KresoF1:
    pride355:

    Sport Auto Hockenheim Lap time of new M5 is in: it is 1:12.9

    http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=613177

    Did you read the test in Sport Auto? Well, impressive time indeed. Just, Michelin PSS are the reason for this awsome time(faster then Panamera Turbo on this track!). But, new M5 would offer not very good wet handling track time as is the case of new 991S. Tires are to blame-they are designed with max dry traction in mind...

    Kreso,

    I have only read the link not the actual article from Sport Auto, but I knew that the test car had Michelin Pilot SS. I heard that even if this tire has much better dry performance than Michelin PS2, it still performs better than PS2 and PZero in the wet. Pilot SS gives around 1,5-2 sec advantage around Hockenheim-like race tracks. This why Ferrari starts to use this tire on 458.

    My friend uses this tire on his 1M and he laps 1,5 sec faster with this tire (compared to new PS2) on a 53-sec track. I have ordered a set of Michelin Pilot SS for my M3 (255/35 front-275/35 rear) and still waiting for them. @ 2000 USD of a set, this tire is little expensive, as everything else about cars, in Turkey Smiley


    --

    ONUR

    11 E92 M3 CP 

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    KresoF1:
    pride355:

    Sport Auto Hockenheim Lap time of new M5 is in: it is 1:12.9

    http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=613177

    Did you read the test in Sport Auto? Well, impressive time indeed. Just, Michelin PSS are the reason for this awsome time(faster then Panamera Turbo on this track!). But, new M5 would offer not very good wet handling track time as is the case of new 991S. Tires are to blame-they are designed with max dry traction in mind...

     

    Yes, indeed...very impressive time for a sedan but on the other hand, I would prefer it if the M5 is half a second slower but equipped with AWD instead.   Most of the M5 owners will never see a track but surely rain or even snow.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    100% agree. Exactly my thoughts!!

    Considering sedans like M5, CLS 63, E 63, etc., I think they've got the wrong direction. Probably is this the reason for the great success of the powerful SUV's. Spacious, acceleration like a 997 S and AWD. That's what a DD need.
    You don't need an DD but a track car? Than you better go with a real sport car like the GT3(2)/RS(R).
    --
    Kind regards, Conny 

    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW X5 M
     

    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    KresoF1:
    pride355:

    Sport Auto Hockenheim Lap time of new M5 is in: it is 1:12.9

    http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=613177

    Did you read the test in Sport Auto? Well, impressive time indeed. Just, Michelin PSS are the reason for this awsome time(faster then Panamera Turbo on this track!). But, new M5 would offer not very good wet handling track time as is the case of new 991S. Tires are to blame-they are designed with max dry traction in mind...

    It's more than that.  This car is very heavy, and you really feel it in the wet, especially if the track has lots of technical turns.  I drove the car in Ascari in both wet and dry, and in the wet it was not a fun car to drive at all as you canNot apply the power which is what this car is all about.  In the dry it was very fast, but still isn't a fun car on the track as you still feel every ounce of its weight shifting around.  I drove the 1M and M3 at the same track and I will take either of those any time wet of dry! 


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    WAY:
    ....  I drove the 1M and M3 at the same track and I will take either of those any time wet of dry! 

    WAY,

    How do you find 1M against M3?

    --

    ONUR

    11 E92 M3 CP 

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    pride355:
    WAY:
    ....  I drove the 1M and M3 at the same track and I will take either of those any time wet of dry! 

    WAY,

    How do you find 1M against M3?

    --

    ONUR

    11 E92 M3 CP 

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     

    That is a real interesting one.  In the wet, the M3's sharper throttle response and relative lack of torque was an advantage as you can modulate the power better.  But outright grip they are very similar, but M3 will pull out of slow corners better.  1M though has sharper turn in and is better at change of direction presumably due to the shorter wheelbase (?).  All in all, the two cars are similar yet different (due to the different engine characteristics and wheelbase), but I would be happy with either!  The emphasis is more on fun with the 1M on the road, whereas the M3 feels much more mature on the road.  On the track though the M3 changes its character and becomes just as fun as the 1M through the changing of settings.  The M3 has the jekyll and hyde personality whereas the 1M is much more one dimensional.  If you are buying a DD and want something that can be a cruiser and luxury car during the week, and turns into a track car on the weekend, then M3 is your car.  If you want fun all the time even at low revs and speed, then 1M is your car.  With the price of the 1M, it is hard to say no to it.


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    Thanks Way,

    that is a very coherent summary and accurately reflects previous comments I have heard about these cars.Smiley


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    Currently, the 1M is probably the best deal from BMW M GmbH but the lack of a DCT gearbox option makes it difficult to say yes to this car, many potential buyers would use it as a second car, which also means that the wife would drive it. I think BMW didn't want to offer DCT or even an auto tranny because of the M3 but it is a shame.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    WAY:

    That is a real interesting one.  In the wet, the M3's sharper throttle response and relative lack of torque was an advantage as you can modulate the power better.  But outright grip they are very similar, but M3 will pull out of slow corners better.  1M though has sharper turn in and is better at change of direction presumably due to the shorter wheelbase (?).  All in all, the two cars are similar yet different (due to the different engine characteristics and wheelbase), but I would be happy with either!  The emphasis is more on fun with the 1M on the road, whereas the M3 feels much more mature on the road.  On the track though the M3 changes its character and becomes just as fun as the 1M through the changing of settings.  The M3 has the jekyll and hyde personality whereas the 1M is much more one dimensional.  If you are buying a DD and want something that can be a cruiser and luxury car during the week, and turns into a track car on the weekend, then M3 is your car.  If you want fun all the time even at low revs and speed, then 1M is your car.  With the price of the 1M, it is hard to say no to it.

    WAY,

    Your findings are just spot-on. I attended a Track Day event, about a month ago. One of my friend who has similar driving skills (we had raced in Honda Civic Type-R Cup series together in 2010) was also attended with his 1M. I had a couple of passanger laps with him and it was very obvious that 1M's smaller dimensions help a lot on S-chicans and initial turn-in. Also the Michelin Super Sports he had and my Michelin PS2s were world apart. (My tires @16000 km)

    My car oversteers a lot; both on exit of the corners and right-left-right chicanes. The weight transfer was obvious on those 80-90 km/h chicanes; especially with my worn rear tires.

    Here is a short video of my frined and during the last 2 laps, he followed me (actually catches up). His car is tuned to around 410 hp and had upgraded brake pads. These were my first laps on an old Circuit which has been revised recently. I couldn't feel comfortable with the tires, so during my first laps my brake points were too early. I couldn't push the brake points as I had understeer problem because of the front tires. During the day my friend with his 1M lapped 1,7 sec faster than me (his second time on the revised Circuit) BUT I had huge fun while sliding around evenif I couldn't clock a good lap time.

    My DSC was fully closed during the day. I constantly oversteer but always in control. On the other hand My friend's DSC was always on since he told me that he got too much torque out of the corners and car oversteers a lot evenif the rear tires were 275-size Michelin SS.
     
    Enjoy the video.
     
     

     


    --

    ONUR

    11 E92 M3 CP 

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    Does anybody know the track time of M5 at the Ring? Very interesting to understand it.

    RWD is disappealing though....


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    7:55 (claimed by BMW... i think...) 

    This time has achieved by a BMW testdriver. It`s amazing because it`s a sedan with RWD. 

    However it`s not a car to take to a track, at least for me... Also in the weat the "rear is more fast then the front"... But it`s a car that i like (very much). I didn`t feel that since the e39 M5.

    http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

    M5_Nurb.jpg

     


    Re: The new M5 - Official Specs

    WAY:
    pride355:
    WAY:
    ....  I drove the 1M and M3 at the same track and I will take either of those any time wet of dry! 

    WAY,

    How do you find 1M against M3?

    --

    ONUR

    11 E92 M3 CP 

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     

    That is a real interesting one.  In the wet, the M3's sharper throttle response and relative lack of torque was an advantage as you can modulate the power better.  But outright grip they are very similar, but M3 will pull out of slow corners better.  1M though has sharper turn in and is better at change of direction presumably due to the shorter wheelbase (?).  All in all, the two cars are similar yet different (due to the different engine characteristics and wheelbase), but I would be happy with either!  The emphasis is more on fun with the 1M on the road, whereas the M3 feels much more mature on the road.  On the track though the M3 changes its character and becomes just as fun as the 1M through the changing of settings.  The M3 has the jekyll and hyde personality whereas the 1M is much more one dimensional.  If you are buying a DD and want something that can be a cruiser and luxury car during the week, and turns into a track car on the weekend, then M3 is your car.  If you want fun all the time even at low revs and speed, then 1M is your car.  With the price of the 1M, it is hard to say no to it.

    That is a very interesting summary text - many thanks Smiley SmileySmileySmiley


     
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