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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    https://fordauthority.com/2021/04/ford-mustang-mach-e-owner-receives-death-threats-from-tesla-owners-online-video/

    No other car brand owners would act like this, ever.

    Not in the Ford vs Ferrari days, not with the Porsche vs Ferrari debates, and certainly not with Ford vs Chevy people.

     

    I know you are fond of analogies. Do you see the irony in that story vs how this forum treats anyone making positive Tesla comments?  Hmmm

    Your conclusion is not worth commenting on. Ridiculous 

    Ever consider it is a publicity stunt?


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    https://fordauthority.com/2021/04/ford-mustang-mach-e-owner-receives-death-threats-from-tesla-owners-online-video/

    No other car brand owners would act like this, ever.

    Not in the Ford vs Ferrari days, not with the Porsche vs Ferrari debates, and certainly not with Ford vs Chevy people.

     

    I know you are fond of analogies. Do you see the irony in that story vs how this forum treats anyone making positive Tesla comments?  Hmmm

    Your conclusion is not worth commenting on. Ridiculous 

    Ever consider it is a publicity stunt?

     

    Hmm no, we are just making factual replies to the disinformation on Tesla. 

    We are just debunking all those 'Tesla is the greatest' myths, like range, acceleration, handling, build quality, fit and finish, etc.

    Tesla is the fastest ---- what's the metric to define that? Top speed? Nope, not even close. Acceleration from rest? Nope again. Rolling? In certain speed range, yes, but not always.

    Teslas can go X amount of miles on a charge. Nope. Not even close to the EPA rating and in real life scenarios, a Taycan can pretty much go just as far as a Tesla. etc.

    WE haven't even touch on the Autopilot myths. 

    Tesla fans simply can't accept anyone else not agreeing with them. This is a very different behaviour compared to fans of all other brands. Ferrari fans don't mind people not liking their brand, Porsche fans won't proclaim their brand is the greatest, etc. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Oh boy Elon really gets to you. Amusing. Get help if it becomes too much. 
    It’s just a sensible car. Just wait until they start to advertise. 
     

    This strange obsession with hating everything Tesla is a far greater force than any of the stuff I hear which is positive about Tesla.   Perhaps the real cult is the Tesla haters club.  It actually only takes common sense to enjoy a Tesla. It takes major disorders to go out of your way to attack shit that should not even bother you in the first place. 


    Re: Tesla

    I'm sorry but it's these sort of responses that kind of proves Nick's point about Tesla fans.

    BTW, a Tesla and Mach-E owner getting threats by Tesla owners is not ok, and only happens with Tesla fans and it's not the first time, just like the Tesla owner who lost the roof on the highway and the unacceptable backlashe he got from Tesla fans for publishing the video. The irony is that most of these Tesla fanatics are not even car guys or car fans.

    Just to be clear, I'm taking about Tesla fans for whom Musk can do no wrong, tell no lie, and Teslas and flawless and superior to anything and challenge militantly anyone thinking different... I'm not taking about happy Tesla owners who still have an objective and clear thinking brain and just own and simply like their car, like people like other cars they own.


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    I'm sorry but it's these sort of responses that kind of proves Nick's point about Tesla fans.

    BTW, a Tesla and Mach-E owner getting threats by Tesla owners is not ok, and only happens with Tesla fans and it's not the first time, just like the Tesla owner who lost the roof on the highway and the unacceptable backlashe he got from Tesla fans for publishing the video. The irony is that most of these Tesla fanatics are not even car guys or car fans.

    Just to be clear, I'm taking about Tesla fans for whom Musk can do no wrong, tell no lie, and Teslas and flawless and superior to anything and challenge militantly anyone thinking different... I'm not taking about happy Tesla owners who still have an objective and clear thinking brain and just own and simply like their car, like people like other cars they own.

    Death threats, any kind of threats, just because someone thinks a car is better than the other is just...how to put it...insane. Smiley I get it, owning a Tesla is almost as a cult for many owners and Tesla fans but while I am not surprised that the Mach E owner has been bashed (which is normal if he posts his review in a Tesla forum), any kind of threat is just crazy. These are cars... Smiley

    Speaking of Musk: Musk and his success are based on a huge fanbase, his followers love him, it is almost like a cult. I never really realized this, would I have had realized it earlier, maybe I would have earned serious money with TSLA stocks. I was thinking pragmatic and looking at the products Tesla sells, the stock buyers were/are worshipping him and put a lot of hope and fantasy into this stock. My bad, I should have known better.

    I have a huge admiration for Musk but mostly because he follows through with his stuff, no matter what. Also, he seems to have many visions and I love it. I'm just waiting for my Starlink package, a friend in another part of Germany already received his and is amazed how well it works. First usable and affordable satellite internet. He has a weekend house on the country side, the maximum download speed he gets is 16 Mbit/s., which is already quite fast for the position of his house. With Starlink, he usually has between 90 and 150 Mbit/s...amazing.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    Just think guys. Tesla drivers love their cars and they love EVs. I seriously doubt there are violent or dangerous Tesla owners. Nor do I think any of them a the least bit threatened by the Ford. I do know that Ford would love this controversy to exist and to pretend that their product is soooo good that they get death threats for mTesla owners.  Think about it. Not like we are all fake news novices 

    So the entire premise that knees are part of a cult for buying a sensible car is getting old and more offensive each time I hear it. These are practical cars with fun performance. I never even get to say anything like that. I just field the bullshit and try to add some logic.  But anything I say in defense of buying a sensible car is considered cult behavior. Seriously. On a forum where people by luxury watches and cars you challenge to motivation of a rational car buyer all the time. 
     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    I'm sorry but it's these sort of responses that kind of proves Nick's point about Tesla fans.

    BTW, a Tesla and Mach-E owner getting threats by Tesla owners is not ok, and only happens with Tesla fans and it's not the first time, just like the Tesla owner who lost the roof on the highway and the unacceptable backlashe he got from Tesla fans for publishing the video. The irony is that most of these Tesla fanatics are not even car guys or car fans.

    Just to be clear, I'm taking about Tesla fans for whom Musk can do no wrong, tell no lie, and Teslas and flawless and superior to anything and challenge militantly anyone thinking different... I'm not taking about happy Tesla owners who still have an objective and clear thinking brain and just own and simply like their car, like people like other cars they o


     

    I don’t think you are talking about my response are you?   What does it prove exactly?  Why not look at Whoopsies laundry list of standard complaints never heard from actual owners?  
    All I did was buy a car I enjoy driving. It is apparently such a good car that those who don’t have one either want one or, on the other hand seem to hate for any number of very strange reasons.  it is polarizing. 
    In all of my life however I have always enjoyed cars and praised the ones I liked.  Never have I disparaged or insulted someone for owning a type of car nor have I challenged their sanity or their cult membership.  More than that I appreciate the fact that someone worked incredibly hard to make that purchase and is proud of it so why would I want to make someone feel bad for that. If I don’t like their car I will keep it to myself.  
    So what on earth is going on with a bunch of car enthusiasts who attack others for what car they drove or like?  

    It is so easy to divide people and make them dislike each other. Any reason why you allow people to mess with your mind like this?  I have said it before - this is entertaining for me most of the time but you guys are way too serious about your dislikes in this case.  It does not make you look good. 
     


    Re: Tesla

    We here are just pointing out the obvious. With your love of your Tesla you may not have noticed or just simply overlooked or just didn't want to look.

    There are quite a few Porsche sites on the internet, every single one of them have threads or posts that have owners complaint about the 'deficit', 'shortcoming' of their purchases. But these posters don't get roasted by others. Same for Ferrari sites, Lambo sites, or even Kia sites. Things are completely different on a Tesla board, if you dare to post something negative about a Tesla, the poster will get constant stream of attacks. 

    And if a negative Tesla topic popped up on a site, one or many posters, will blindly defend Tesla until the end of days. No Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, whatever fanatic will do something like that, they would simply accept the criticism, which is most often, true, and move on. Life goes on, but that only applies to non-Tesla people, as Tesla people are like a cult following, they are blinded and can't see the light. 

    No one here ever trashed your ownership of a Tesla. You said it many times, in your situation and in your usage, the Model 3 make sense. Cool. But you owning a Tesla doesn't means everyone else can't talk about what's bad on a Tesla, or what's perceived by a majority that's bad but you as an owner doesn't quite perceived as bad. 

    Someone making death threats against another Tesla owner is quite real and scary, and you just wanted to downplay it as a publicity stunt?!?!?! We have disagreements here among members, but did you ever remotely see a death threat here?

    Remember my Z4? I still have it, me and my gf enjoys it, but I got roasted by many, if not everyone here for buying one, did I ever get defensive about it? Or utter death threats to members that don't agreed with my choice? It's not the fastest thing, it's not the best handling thing, it's also way out of left field, and honestly, we picked it over a Boxster, which, for many here, is a better car. And I don't blindly defend the Z4 like you did to your Tesla. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    I just think the death threat is either overblown or a publicity stunt. I totally admit to being a busy person and not ever checking a Tesla forum or such. The owners I know personally know don’t even own guns. Lol. Peaceful and docile as sheep.  No emotion tied to ownership. 
    On the other hand every friggin teenager seems to do a double take on the Tesla but never look even once at the turbo. I think it may be the wannabe tesla owners who are a bit more alarming.  
     

    I just have a bad taste in my mouth from all the politics of division. All flavors. Excuse my sensitivity toward that. 
     

    That Z3 is fun and like all other cars should enjoy a following. Hard earned money for some invested well. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    ........ I think it may be the wannabe tesla owners who are a bit more alarming.  ........

    No doubt the eco warrior keyboard ninja's are skewing the representation on Tesla boards. You are perhaps having a bit too much fun with it yourself some days.

    Really enjoyed driving your model 3 last night and my wife was very favorably impressed by the car's quiet ride and she also loves snappy acceleration. Smiley  Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    I just think the death threat is either overblown or a publicity stunt. I totally admit to being a busy person and not ever checking a Tesla forum or such. The owners I know personally know don’t even own guns. Lol. Peaceful and docile as sheep.  No emotion tied to ownership. 
    On the other hand every friggin teenager seems to do a double take on the Tesla but never look even once at the turbo. I think it may be the wannabe tesla owners who are a bit more alarming.  
     

    I just have a bad taste in my mouth from all the politics of division. All flavors. Excuse my sensitivity toward that. 
     

    That Z3 is fun and like all other cars should enjoy a following. Hard earned money for some invested well. 

     

    Trying doing that 'stunt' to the sitting President and explain it after that it was overblown.

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    We here are just pointing out the obvious. With your love of your Tesla you may not have noticed or just simply overlooked or just didn't want to look.

    There are quite a few Porsche sites on the internet, every single one of them have threads or posts that have owners complaint about the 'deficit', 'shortcoming' of their purchases. But these posters don't get roasted by others. Same for Ferrari sites, Lambo sites, or even Kia sites. Things are completely different on a Tesla board, if you dare to post something negative about a Tesla, the poster will get constant stream of attacks. 

    And if a negative Tesla topic popped up on a site, one or many posters, will blindly defend Tesla until the end of days. No Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, whatever fanatic will do something like that, they would simply accept the criticism, which is most often, true, and move on. Life goes on, but that only applies to non-Tesla people, as Tesla people are like a cult following, they are blinded and can't see the light. 

    No one here ever trashed your ownership of a Tesla. You said it many times, in your situation and in your usage, the Model 3 make sense. Cool. But you owning a Tesla doesn't means everyone else can't talk about what's bad on a Tesla, or what's perceived by a majority that's bad but you as an owner doesn't quite perceived as bad. 

    Someone making death threats against another Tesla owner is quite real and scary, and you just wanted to downplay it as a publicity stunt?!?!?! We have disagreements here among members, but did you ever remotely see a death threat here?

    Remember my Z4? I still have it, me and my gf enjoys it, but I got roasted by many, if not everyone here for buying one, did I ever get defensive about it? Or utter death threats to members that don't agreed with my choice? It's not the fastest thing, it's not the best handling thing, it's also way out of left field, and honestly, we picked it over a Boxster, which, for many here, is a better car. And I don't blindly defend the Z4 like you did to your Tesla. 

     

     

    Maybe it has something to do with personal confidence and education? Smiley

    I just got roasted by a guy in a closed Trackhawk Facebook group I am a member of. There was a drag race between the Urus, the Trackhawk and the Durango Hellcat and the Urus lost. Of course this caused some sort of general euphoria and heavy bashing of the Urus. I tried to explain to these guys that the Urus is not about straight line driving but the overall build quality, the fantastic interior, brakes, chassis and how it moves through curves and on the track.

    I got heavily attacked for this by a Trackhawk owner, didn't expect that coming.  Smiley

    I think if people lack the experience (or vision) to look over the edge of their own plate, this is what happens. 

    I love my Trackhawk but I would take a Urus in a heartbeat if it would make sense for me. The Trackhawk is an affordable toy and family car but not even close to the overall quality and performance of the Urus. Winning a drag race from a stop light is fun but this doesn't define the overall experience with the Trackhawk. It is still an old gen US SUV with a monster engine. You can put lipstick on a pig but it stays a pig. The Trackhawk is fun to drive but mostly because of it's monster engine and because it flies under the radar, not because it is a fantastic track car. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

     


    Re: Tesla

    Elon Musk Says Tesla's Full-Self Driving Beta V9.0 Is Almost Ready

    What’s interesting is the fact that the system will stop using the radar sensor and solely rely on the cameras. Teslas have one forward-facing radar sensor, eight cameras, and twelve ultrasonic sensors. 

     heart


    Re: Tesla

    Musk must not like repeat customers. 


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Musk must not like repeat customers. 

    Right lol. 
    Curious how it will be. They will offer it as a subscription soon as well. I wonder if my standard autopilot will also stop using the radar. I’m assuming at some point it will. 

    The obvious reason I see for not using radar is that when using the radar as a sensor they mostly need to ignore it for oncoming traffic on two lane roads etc.   Most of the time I would bet the radar information takes up processor power and is mostly of no use or needs to be eliminated.  The AI is using just video input and I doubt it has any radar info awareness. 
     


     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Topspeed:

    Elon Musk Says Tesla's Full-Self Driving Beta V9.0 Is Almost Ready

    What’s interesting is the fact that the system will stop using the radar sensor and solely rely on the cameras. Teslas have one forward-facing radar sensor, eight cameras, and twelve ultrasonic sensors. 

     heart

    The camera approach is certainly the right way for the future but I love tech and really read a lot about this stuff and according to my information, the industry is at least five years away from somewhat reliable camera sensors to do the job and by somewhat reliable I do not mean 100% or 99%. It may take a decade or more until we are getting close to 100% relying on in-car systems only. In the end, I think that such a "perfect" camera system still needs to be complemented by some sorts of sensors in the road and/or in street signs to achieve almost 100% accuracy.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    RC:
    Topspeed:

    Elon Musk Says Tesla's Full-Self Driving Beta V9.0 Is Almost Ready

    What’s interesting is the fact that the system will stop using the radar sensor and solely rely on the cameras. Teslas have one forward-facing radar sensor, eight cameras, and twelve ultrasonic sensors. 

     heart

    The camera approach is certainly the right way for the future but I love tech and really read a lot about this stuff and according to my information, the industry is at least five years away from somewhat reliable camera sensors to do the job and by somewhat reliable I do not mean 100% or 99%. It may take a decade or more until we are getting close to 100% relying on in-car systems only. In the end, I think that such a "perfect" camera system still needs to be complemented by some sorts of sensors in the road and/or in street signs to achieve almost 100% accuracy.

    My measure of when it is ready is when it is faster than I am.  I may need to get old and slow in that case because without that it is not happening. 
    Not to be confused with the current autopilot on a nice open highway. For this I am in no hurry to go fast and it does this just fine. 


    Re: Tesla

    “TesIa Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be a LEVEL 2 System”  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    Promises of hands-free driving and robotaxis have swirled in the dreams of drivers and investors ever since Tesla first teased the possibility of a consumer-grade autonomous vehicle. Despite this promise, Tesla has yet to release a fully autonomous car for the public to purchase. It does, however, still allow customers to buy the promise of the "Full Self-Driving" (FSD) set of features for their vehicles which currently fit the SAE definition of Level 2 partial autonomy.

    So what exactly is Tesla teasing in its newest "FSD Beta" Advanced Driver-Assistance System (ADAS) build? As it turns out, a recently uncovered series of emails between Tesla and the California Department of Motor Vehicles indicates that while the automaker's ADAS systems are greatly improving, hands-free driving is not coming to a Tesla near you in the immediate future.

    Last October, Tesla released an over-the-air update to limited participants which it called "FSD Beta," something which many understood to be an early release of Tesla's long-promised hands-off suite. By December, around 200 individuals were granted access to the program, 54 of whom were non-Tesla employees (though this likely changed, as CEO Elon Musk reported that Tesla had nearly 1,000 people participating in the beta by January). Those included in the FSD Beta began driving their vehicles around and recording the vehicle's performance to post online.

    FSD Beta, which is formally called "Autosteer on City Streets," is part of the Full Self-Driving suite of ADAS features and not a standalone component that enables hands-free driving as some might anticipate. This connotation exacerbated the confusion sparked by the Full Self-Driving branding and provoked an email from the California DMV. Said email requested that Tesla immediately provide clarification on the FSD Beta functionality to ensure that the automaker was not testing on California roads without the proper permit to deploy such a feature.

    "City Streets continues to firmly root the vehicle in SAE Level 2 capability and does not make it autonomous under the DMV’s definition," wrote Eric Williams, Tesla associate general counsel, in a statement attached to an email with the California DMV. "City Streets’ capabilities with respect to the object and event detection and response (OEDR) sub-task are limited, as there are circumstances and events to which the system is not capable of recognizing or responding."

    Williams went on to define such circumstances as adverse weather, complicated or adversarial vehicles in the driving path, construction zones, emergency vehicles, large uncontrolled intersections with multiple incoming ways, occlusions, road debris, static objects, and unmapped roads—all things which one would expect a vehicle with Level 3 or higher partial-autonomy to be able to identify and remediate, or at least notify the driver to take over. 

    Further reading indicates that Tesla's current FSD Beta is limited to the inclusion of updated visualizations and Autosteer on City Streets, not any form of hands-off driving as many members of the public anticipated given the name. This alone has caused a great deal of confusion from current and prospective owners, questioning whether or not FSD would be "feature complete" (which CEO Elon Musk said would happen by the end of 2019), and if that meant Tesla would achieve Level 5 autonomy by the time the FSD Beta would be released to all drivers.

    Further confusion was brewed as Musk tweeted about "self-drive while playing" video games. This occurred around the time of the emails being sent to the California DMV, and it almost certainly added to the uncertainty as other Twitter users even responded to the tweet asking for access to the FSD Beta so they could try it out.

    "[A] final release of City Streets will continue to be an SAE Level 2, advanced driver-assistance feature," continued Williams. "Please note that Tesla’s development of true autonomous features (SAE Levels 3+) will follow our iterative process (development, validation, early release, etc.) and any such features will not be released to the general public until we have fully validated them and received any required regulatory permits or approvals."

    In fairness, Tesla does list Autosteer on City Streets as a feature of FSD; however, making the determination that the FSD Beta is not a preview of Tesla's hands-off driving experience is not as easy. Tesla is also notorious for changing around what is included in its $10,000 Full Self-Driving menu offering, so it's quite possible that hands-free driving may be introduced at a later date under a different feature name.

    If nothing else, this further proves that the world of self-driving is built on a hill of confusing semantics. The definition of "partial-autonomy" seems to be "hands-off" driving to others, and such a small designation is enough to create serious risk—this type of marketing can be dangerous.

    Link 1: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39647/tesla-admits-current-full-self-driving-beta-will-always-be-a-level-2-system-emails

    5EB650CA-C3FE-4194-90DD-5ACFDA71C3E7.jpeg

    Link 2: https://www.plainsite.org/documents/242a2g/california-dmv-tesla-robotaxi--fsd-emails/

    BF822CAF-50E5-4C47-9B23-F36F9B8F5A9C.gif


    Re: Tesla

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    “TesIa Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be a LEVEL 2 System”  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    Promises of hands-free driving and robotaxis have swirled in the dreams of drivers and investors ever since Tesla first teased the possibility of a consumer-grade autonomous vehicle. Despite this promise, Tesla has yet to release a fully autonomous car for the public to purchase. It does, however, still allow customers to buy the promise of the "Full Self-Driving" (FSD) set of features for their vehicles which currently fit the SAE definition of Level 2 partial autonomy.

    So what exactly is Tesla teasing in its newest "FSD Beta" Advanced Driver-Assistance System (ADAS) build? As it turns out, a recently uncovered series of emails between Tesla and the California Department of Motor Vehicles indicates that while the automaker's ADAS systems are greatly improving, hands-free driving is not coming to a Tesla near you in the immediate future.

    Last October, Tesla released an over-the-air update to limited participants which it called "FSD Beta," something which many understood to be an early release of Tesla's long-promised hands-off suite. By December, around 200 individuals were granted access to the program, 54 of whom were non-Tesla employees (though this likely changed, as CEO Elon Musk reported that Tesla had nearly 1,000 people participating in the beta by January). Those included in the FSD Beta began driving their vehicles around and recording the vehicle's performance to post online.

    FSD Beta, which is formally called "Autosteer on City Streets," is part of the Full Self-Driving suite of ADAS features and not a standalone component that enables hands-free driving as some might anticipate. This connotation exacerbated the confusion sparked by the Full Self-Driving branding and provoked an email from the California DMV. Said email requested that Tesla immediately provide clarification on the FSD Beta functionality to ensure that the automaker was not testing on California roads without the proper permit to deploy such a feature.

    "City Streets continues to firmly root the vehicle in SAE Level 2 capability and does not make it autonomous under the DMV’s definition," wrote Eric Williams, Tesla associate general counsel, in a statement attached to an email with the California DMV. "City Streets’ capabilities with respect to the object and event detection and response (OEDR) sub-task are limited, as there are circumstances and events to which the system is not capable of recognizing or responding."

    Williams went on to define such circumstances as adverse weather, complicated or adversarial vehicles in the driving path, construction zones, emergency vehicles, large uncontrolled intersections with multiple incoming ways, occlusions, road debris, static objects, and unmapped roads—all things which one would expect a vehicle with Level 3 or higher partial-autonomy to be able to identify and remediate, or at least notify the driver to take over. 

    Further reading indicates that Tesla's current FSD Beta is limited to the inclusion of updated visualizations and Autosteer on City Streets, not any form of hands-off driving as many members of the public anticipated given the name. This alone has caused a great deal of confusion from current and prospective owners, questioning whether or not FSD would be "feature complete" (which CEO Elon Musk said would happen by the end of 2019), and if that meant Tesla would achieve Level 5 autonomy by the time the FSD Beta would be released to all drivers.

    Further confusion was brewed as Musk tweeted about "self-drive while playing" video games. This occurred around the time of the emails being sent to the California DMV, and it almost certainly added to the uncertainty as other Twitter users even responded to the tweet asking for access to the FSD Beta so they could try it out.

    "[A] final release of City Streets will continue to be an SAE Level 2, advanced driver-assistance feature," continued Williams. "Please note that Tesla’s development of true autonomous features (SAE Levels 3+) will follow our iterative process (development, validation, early release, etc.) and any such features will not be released to the general public until we have fully validated them and received any required regulatory permits or approvals."

    In fairness, Tesla does list Autosteer on City Streets as a feature of FSD; however, making the determination that the FSD Beta is not a preview of Tesla's hands-off driving experience is not as easy. Tesla is also notorious for changing around what is included in its $10,000 Full Self-Driving menu offering, so it's quite possible that hands-free driving may be introduced at a later date under a different feature name.

    If nothing else, this further proves that the world of self-driving is built on a hill of confusing semantics. The definition of "partial-autonomy" seems to be "hands-off" driving to others, and such a small designation is enough to create serious risk—this type of marketing can be dangerous.

    Link 1: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39647/tesla-admits-current-full-self-driving-beta-will-always-be-a-level-2-system-emails

    5EB650CA-C3FE-4194-90DD-5ACFDA71C3E7.jpeg

    Link 2: https://www.plainsite.org/documents/242a2g/california-dmv-tesla-robotaxi--fsd-emails/

    BF822CAF-50E5-4C47-9B23-F36F9B8F5A9C.gif

    A typical convoluted story to make an obvious point. Yes any software in its current version will not have features expected or promised in future versions. The headline tries to make some claim that Tesla never plans to complete anything other than level 2 until you read that the current version is not going beyond level 2.  
    I know you expected me to chime in and freak out etc. ha ha.  Please then explain how this is even a story Smiley

    Its not even good bait for people calling out the average Tesla hack job.  They don’t even bother to talks about the next version not using radar and being offered up to test to anyone with FSD. 
    The letter to the DMV is clearly to reiterate that hands on the wheel are still required with the current version. That the authors choose to be confused by an automakers terminology is sad but required to make this a sensational sounding bit. 
     


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    “TesIa Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be a LEVEL 2 System”  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    Promises of hands-free driving and robotaxis have swirled in the dreams of drivers and investors ever since Tesla first teased the possibility of a consumer-grade autonomous vehicle. Despite this promise, Tesla has yet to release a fully autonomous car for the public to purchase. It does, however, still allow customers to buy the promise of the "Full Self-Driving" (FSD) set of features for their vehicles which currently fit the SAE definition of Level 2 partial autonomy.

    So what exactly is Tesla teasing in its newest "FSD Beta" Advanced Driver-Assistance System (ADAS) build? As it turns out, a recently uncovered series of emails between Tesla and the California Department of Motor Vehicles indicates that while the automaker's ADAS systems are greatly improving, hands-free driving is not coming to a Tesla near you in the immediate future.

    Last October, Tesla released an over-the-air update to limited participants which it called "FSD Beta," something which many understood to be an early release of Tesla's long-promised hands-off suite. By December, around 200 individuals were granted access to the program, 54 of whom were non-Tesla employees (though this likely changed, as CEO Elon Musk reported that Tesla had nearly 1,000 people participating in the beta by January). Those included in the FSD Beta began driving their vehicles around and recording the vehicle's performance to post online.

    FSD Beta, which is formally called "Autosteer on City Streets," is part of the Full Self-Driving suite of ADAS features and not a standalone component that enables hands-free driving as some might anticipate. This connotation exacerbated the confusion sparked by the Full Self-Driving branding and provoked an email from the California DMV. Said email requested that Tesla immediately provide clarification on the FSD Beta functionality to ensure that the automaker was not testing on California roads without the proper permit to deploy such a feature.

    "City Streets continues to firmly root the vehicle in SAE Level 2 capability and does not make it autonomous under the DMV’s definition," wrote Eric Williams, Tesla associate general counsel, in a statement attached to an email with the California DMV. "City Streets’ capabilities with respect to the object and event detection and response (OEDR) sub-task are limited, as there are circumstances and events to which the system is not capable of recognizing or responding."

    Williams went on to define such circumstances as adverse weather, complicated or adversarial vehicles in the driving path, construction zones, emergency vehicles, large uncontrolled intersections with multiple incoming ways, occlusions, road debris, static objects, and unmapped roads—all things which one would expect a vehicle with Level 3 or higher partial-autonomy to be able to identify and remediate, or at least notify the driver to take over. 

    Further reading indicates that Tesla's current FSD Beta is limited to the inclusion of updated visualizations and Autosteer on City Streets, not any form of hands-off driving as many members of the public anticipated given the name. This alone has caused a great deal of confusion from current and prospective owners, questioning whether or not FSD would be "feature complete" (which CEO Elon Musk said would happen by the end of 2019), and if that meant Tesla would achieve Level 5 autonomy by the time the FSD Beta would be released to all drivers.

    Further confusion was brewed as Musk tweeted about "self-drive while playing" video games. This occurred around the time of the emails being sent to the California DMV, and it almost certainly added to the uncertainty as other Twitter users even responded to the tweet asking for access to the FSD Beta so they could try it out.

    "[A] final release of City Streets will continue to be an SAE Level 2, advanced driver-assistance feature," continued Williams. "Please note that Tesla’s development of true autonomous features (SAE Levels 3+) will follow our iterative process (development, validation, early release, etc.) and any such features will not be released to the general public until we have fully validated them and received any required regulatory permits or approvals."

    In fairness, Tesla does list Autosteer on City Streets as a feature of FSD; however, making the determination that the FSD Beta is not a preview of Tesla's hands-off driving experience is not as easy. Tesla is also notorious for changing around what is included in its $10,000 Full Self-Driving menu offering, so it's quite possible that hands-free driving may be introduced at a later date under a different feature name.

    If nothing else, this further proves that the world of self-driving is built on a hill of confusing semantics. The definition of "partial-autonomy" seems to be "hands-off" driving to others, and such a small designation is enough to create serious risk—this type of marketing can be dangerous.

    Link 1: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39647/tesla-admits-current-full-self-driving-beta-will-always-be-a-level-2-system-emails

    5EB650CA-C3FE-4194-90DD-5ACFDA71C3E7.jpeg

    Link 2: https://www.plainsite.org/documents/242a2g/california-dmv-tesla-robotaxi--fsd-emails/

    BF822CAF-50E5-4C47-9B23-F36F9B8F5A9C.gif

    A typical convoluted story to make an obvious point. Yes any software in its current version will not have features expected or promised in future versions. The headline tries to make some claim that Tesla never plans to complete anything other than level 2 until you read that the current version is not going beyond level 2.  
    I know you expected me to chime in and freak out etc. ha ha.  Please then explain how this is even a story Smiley

    Its not even good bait for people calling out the average Tesla hack job.  They don’t even bother to talks about the next version not using radar and being offered up to test to anyone with FSD. 
    The letter to the DMV is clearly to reiterate that hands on the wheel are still required with the current version. That the authors choose to be confused by an automakers terminology is sad but required to make this a sensational sounding bit. 
     

    This regulatory disclosure by TesIa is a little more significant than you seem to be ready to appreciate sir...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    42C1A076-04B2-4E80-8F27-415671619255.jpeg

    ...sometimes it helps to read it back to yourself out loud... Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Good advice you should take. Thanks for saving me the time.  What part of more capable over time and not currently did you not grasp? The fact that you still think this is a big news item means that while you can read your comprehension is a bit bias.  Far more so than mine. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Good advice you should take. Thanks for saving me the time.  What part of more capable over time and not currently did you not grasp? The fact that you still think this is a big news item means that while you can read your comprehension is a bit bias.  Far more so than mine. 

    “Tesla 'very close' to level 5 autonomous driving technology, Musk says”  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    (9 July 2020)

    U.S. electric vehicle maker Tesla Inc is "very close" to achieving level 5 autonomous driving technology, Chief Executive Elon Musk said on Thursday, referring to the capability to navigate roads without any driver input.

    “I’m extremely confident that level 5 or essentially complete autonomy will happen and I think will happen very quickly,” Musk said in remarks made via a video message at the opening of Shanghai’s annual World Artificial Intelligence Conference (WAIC).

    “I remain confident that we will have the basic functionality for level 5 autonomy complete this year.”

    Link: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-autonomous-idUSKBN24A0HE

    Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    Leawood911:

    Good advice you should take. Thanks for saving me the time.  What part of more capable over time and not currently did you not grasp? The fact that you still think this is a big news item means that while you can read your comprehension is a bit bias.  Far more so than mine. 

    “Tesla 'very close' to level 5 autonomous driving technology, Musk says”  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    (9 July 2020)

    U.S. electric vehicle maker Tesla Inc is "very close" to achieving level 5 autonomous driving technology, Chief Executive Elon Musk said on Thursday, referring to the capability to navigate roads without any driver input.

    “I’m extremely confident that level 5 or essentially complete autonomy will happen and I think will happen very quickly,” Musk said in remarks made via a video message at the opening of Shanghai’s annual World Artificial Intelligence Conference (WAIC).

    “I remain confident that we will have the basic functionality for level 5 autonomy complete this year.”

    Link: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-autonomous-idUSKBN24A0HE

    Smiley

    As you can see The last story claiming the Tesla has no plans to go past level 2 is not correct.  Thanks for posting.  
    Seems Elon has actually been very consistent about this message.  He continues to invest and develop the tech making progress which is moving forward - do you doubt this?  Do you think he is lying, do you think he has not delivered in the past?  Maybe you think he is just a fraud and a thief taking advantage of his cult?  What exactly is the point you think you are trying to make?  That complicated stuff takes time and effort with failures along the way?  Pretty certain we all know by now that Elon likes to set himself deadlines and goals which are stupendous and unlikely.  Is this your big news?  Have you ever used Tesla autopilot?  How do this compare to when you let your car drive down the highway?

    not certain why some think they need to mock legit efforts to improve safety and our lives in general beyond what we have today but I get many spend their energy opposing progress if it comes from Tesla.  While I have stated many times the FSD may not be for me (too slow and scary for me) I am smart enough to know not to bet much against Elon and Tesla.  He tends to succeed. 
    This thread is going to be much fun as time goes on. Keep posting ‘news’ to fit your narrative. There are many like you that create it and eat it up. Gee, I wonder if some of it is sponsored by the competition.   Nah, they all have self driving ready to roll out and EV cars lined up to fill millions of existing orders from loyal customers.  
    Happy Tuesday


    Re: Tesla

    EIon has been spotted preparing for the 2021 Q1 investor presentation...  BF822CAF-50E5-4C47-9B23-F36F9B8F5A9C.gif

    ...a fraudster always works better with a willing stooge in the audience...  Smiley

    Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiU8ClgyvUU


    Re: Tesla

    I can see you are in a good mood. Let the games begin 
    I’m assuming you think I’m a stooge???  Did you have that one ready to go with in case I posted any reply to your sensational story regardless of how sensible?  
    I wonder if someone relentlessly attacking a tech company while benefitting an ailing giant ICE industry can be considered a stooge?  Not that I would ever be so impolite as to come right out and post YouTube clips to try and humiliate someone. Lol. 
    why not take a Tesla test drive. It f it’s been awhile maybe try out the latest autopilot. It helps to be informed and aware firsthand. 


    Re: Tesla

    Mike, something to boast about.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-dominates-porsche-taycan-racetrack/


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: Tesla

    nberry:

    Mike, something to boast about.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-dominates-porsche-taycan-racetrack/

     

    The Taycan is faster than a highly modified Model 3 by almost 1/2 a second, and pretty much 5 seconds faster than other Model 3s. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    So the Taycan gets fastest lap, but cannot win in an EV race.

    Still it is clearly the better car if you are hitting on women over 40 smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Gladstone:

    So the Taycan gets fastest lap, but cannot win in an EV race.

    Still it is clearly the better car if you are hitting on women over 40 smiley

     

    Is that what's happening in KC? Women over here who are over 60 are flooding the Tesla scene. Smiley

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Gladstone:

    So the Taycan gets fastest lap, but cannot win in an EV race.

    Still it is clearly the better car if you are hitting on women over 40 smiley

    Is that what's happening in KC? Women over here who are over 60 are flooding the Tesla scene. Smiley

     

    GILF magnet Smiley


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


     
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