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    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    Nick, excellent summary.kiss

    However, your approach is geared more to performance parameters rather than business considerations. The Porsche GT line up is a huge money maker. There is no need to turn them into Turbo cars and compromise the sales of those cars. Despite the success of Ferrari and McLaren of their turbo cars, we must keep in mind they are small manufacturers and don't have the numbers to meet emission standards. They had to do turbo their cars. Porsche doesn't need to do that with the GT cars. A none aspirated car is unique, in demand and delivers on performance. Why give up that advantage with future models? Smiley

    I might add that I have owned Turbo cars and now own one. They just do not provide the excitement of NA GT cars.


    --

     

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

     

     

    No, I did consider the business case too. 1 in 6 car Porsche sells is a 911, of those, perhaps 10% are the GT cars. Not quite big volume, but not tiny either.

    As I said, going forward for at least 2017, Porsche will have 2 GT products, GT3 and GT2RS. Who knows, there might even be a GT version of the 718. These cars will more than make up for the volume from the lack of GT3RS. Not every GT buyer is a 918 owner who buys everything. Normal buyers pick and choose what they want. 

    They are not short on product offerings that's for sure.

     

     

    all true but i am hearing of a special GT3RS very- limited edition, as send off of the 991. 


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    pmarkow:

    all true but i am hearing of a special GT3RS very- limited edition, as send off of the 991. 

    It makes sense, given how successful the 997 RS 4.0 was (Porsche wants a piece of that market)...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    noone1:
    nberry:

    Again, you're looking through performance glasses and not business. Today, Porsche cars are not on the top of the performance pyramid. Other than the 918, most of the Porsche models are in the mid or upper middle of performance. And that is exactly where Porsche is positioning their cars. And yet, they are selling their cars like hotcakes. And as for the GT models, they have huge wait list for models that have yet to be announced. Once they are turbo'ed that list will disappear. That speaks volumes.

     

     

    Hot cakes? How many GT3s do they really sell each year?

    There's no other sports car in the world produced in such a high volume (in the range of thousands) that is more sought after than the GT3 (RS).

    And those who plan to wait for the first guinea pigs - I wish you good luck getting a GT3. By the time the first "guinea pigs" receive their cars, the quota will be over. 

    The GT3 is a unique product and at this price level I would say it's a gift by Porsche. The manual option will activate a huge number of collectors and older Porsche drivers. It's going to be a free ride for the owners, that's for sure.

     

     


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    acky:

    I hope you are right and I would agree 100% that Porsche need GT models with NA engines also in the future to keep the brand as high as it is now. But Porsche is not anymore a sports car brand. Cayenne, Macan, Panamera make far more than 50% of their sales.

    But I dont believe that the board will decide in the right way. How can it happen that the 718 get that engine it got. A big mistake, in my view the killed the Boxster/Cayman. Never in the last 20 years a new  model was so unscuccessful in sale than the 718. Never before there where so many negative reviews of a new Porsche model as of the 718. And this was absolutly no surprise.

    I expect the 992 GT3 not to be a NA engined car. And I have doubts that we will see 992 special limited cars with NA engine. I expect they will go more the 919 way.


    --

     

    daily: BMW 430d
    for fun: Porsche Boxster GTS

     

    See the end of nearly every recent (past 2 years or so) 919/WEC video:

    Slow motion panning shot of the 919, "the sports car of the future"

     


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    Herbaliser:
    noone1:
    nberry:

    Again, you're looking through performance glasses and not business. Today, Porsche cars are not on the top of the performance pyramid. Other than the 918, most of the Porsche models are in the mid or upper middle of performance. And that is exactly where Porsche is positioning their cars. And yet, they are selling their cars like hotcakes. And as for the GT models, they have huge wait list for models that have yet to be announced. Once they are turbo'ed that list will disappear. That speaks volumes.

     

     

    Hot cakes? How many GT3s do they really sell each year?

    There's no other sports car in the world produced in such a high volume (in the range of thousands) that is more sought after than the GT3 (RS).

    And those who plan to wait for the first guinea pigs - I wish you good luck getting a GT3. By the time the first "guinea pigs" receive their cars, the quota will be over. 

    The GT3 is a unique product and at this price level I would say it's a gift by Porsche. The manual option will activate a huge number of collectors and older Porsche drivers. It's going to be a free ride for the owners, that's for sure.


    Huh? Doubt it. Tons of cars in the 150-200K range sell in the thousands year after year, non-stop.


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    pmarkow:
    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    Nick, excellent summary.kiss

    However, your approach is geared more to performance parameters rather than business considerations. The Porsche GT line up is a huge money maker. There is no need to turn them into Turbo cars and compromise the sales of those cars. Despite the success of Ferrari and McLaren of their turbo cars, we must keep in mind they are small manufacturers and don't have the numbers to meet emission standards. They had to do turbo their cars. Porsche doesn't need to do that with the GT cars. A none aspirated car is unique, in demand and delivers on performance. Why give up that advantage with future models? Smiley

    I might add that I have owned Turbo cars and now own one. They just do not provide the excitement of NA GT cars.


    --

     

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

     

     

    No, I did consider the business case too. 1 in 6 car Porsche sells is a 911, of those, perhaps 10% are the GT cars. Not quite big volume, but not tiny either.

    As I said, going forward for at least 2017, Porsche will have 2 GT products, GT3 and GT2RS. Who knows, there might even be a GT version of the 718. These cars will more than make up for the volume from the lack of GT3RS. Not every GT buyer is a 918 owner who buys everything. Normal buyers pick and choose what they want. 

    They are not short on product offerings that's for sure.

     

     

    all true but i am hearing of a special GT3RS very- limited edition, as send off of the 991. 

     

    There is a very special and limited version of the 991 from Motorsport cooking since last March.........................


    --

     

     


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    911 GT3 RS R Speedster with option for it to be Tiptronic.


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    As long as it looks good 😊


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:
    pmarkow:
    Whoopsy:

    There is a very special and limited version of the 991 from Motorsport cooking since last March.........................

    Which only you be able to get!


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    991 GT4! I knew it! kissindecision


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    In white too.

     


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    Grant:

    Lots of rumors on another forum and most recent ones claim the facelift 991 GT3 will have a 3.0L Turbo motor (but with significant upgrades from Carrera S) - possibly electric turbocharger(s)?  Also mentions that Manual gearbox may be offered along with PDK-S.

    Also, seems unlikely that GT4 facelift would continue with NA if GT3 goes Turbo.

    Does anyone have rumors to share?

     


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

    Grant, total nonsense. It will be a 4L NA engine. My sources are generally reliable. More importantly, Nick claims it will be a 4L NA. Smiley


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    noone1:


    Huh? Doubt it. Tons of cars in the 150-200K range sell in the thousands year after year, non-stop.

    Sports cars? For example...? It was certainly easier for me the get a slot for the 488 and the Performante than the GT3 RS. We hear rumors for 5000k cars produced and it still sells over price list... But maybe you've had different experience?


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    5000 cars over roughly 2 years is only 2500/year.

    GT3 RS isn't a sports car, it's an exotic car. It's like 200K. Ferrari sells 2500 of their V8 model every year. Huracan sells 2500/year. R8 sells more than 2500/year. Even McLaren is already selling 2500 570S per year.
     


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    nberry:
    Grant:

    Lots of rumors on another forum and most recent ones claim the facelift 991 GT3 will have a 3.0L Turbo motor (but with significant upgrades from Carrera S) - possibly electric turbocharger(s)?  Also mentions that Manual gearbox may be offered along with PDK-S

    Also, seems unlikely that GT4 facelift would continue with NA if GT3 goes Turbo.

    Does anyone have rumors to share?

     


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

    Grant, total nonsense. It will be a 4L NA engine. My sources are generally reliable. More importantly, Nick claims it will be a 4L NA. Smiley

    Yep, I'm thinking the same with the help of some resident  RT members - my post was over a year old Smiley


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    at least we know the 4.0L engine lasted 24hrs.

    GT3R just finished 1st, 2nd and 5ht at the 24hrs of Dubai.

    Brandon Hartley drove the winning car.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    Excellent! kiss


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    Summary in English, please?  Did it say power between 475 and 500hp (my lousy attempt)?


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    "Bla bla... manual... bla bla... 3.8l or 4.0l? ...Apple Car Play" indecision


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    Ah...indecision


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    Grant:

    Did it say power between 475 and 500hp (my lousy attempt)?

    Well, the author is speculating that the new GT3 will have more power than the 991.1 GT3 with a upper limit at the 991.1 GT3 RS. 

    I am surprised someone manages to write an article that long with absolutely zero content Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    I must say that Porsche has been successful in keeping the technical details of the .2GT3 secret. The secrecy lends itself to free publicity. That said, I cannot imagine Porsche coming out with a .2GT3 model with the same hp as the .1. Additionally, given all the problems with the .1 engine, upgrading to a 4L engine similar to the RS only makes business sense.kiss


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    It will not be making 475HP, just the capacity increase from 3.8 to 4.0 will take care of that.

    500HP like the current GT3RS? Possibly, as the 500 is rated in a static condition without the ram air effect of the air intake.

    But the new .2 GT3 will have a different air intake than the GT3RS, with opening on the rear deck instead of the side fenders, also bigger than in the .1. Perhaps it will get a ram air boost also.

    But even if it's rated at 495, or 500, do anyone care? 5 HP difference?


    --

     

     


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    But even if it's rated at 495, or 500, do anyone care? 5 HP difference?

    475, 485, or 495 does not matter to me. As long as the engine does not go *pop* anymore.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    bluelines:
    Whoopsy:

    But even if it's rated at 495, or 500, do anyone care? 5 HP difference?

    475, 485, or 495 does not matter to me. As long as the engine does not go *pop* anymore.

    No more pops, muck... Hope I got a allocation. My 3.1 been a good girlie though. I love her Smiley..


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    bluelines:
    Whoopsy:

    But even if it's rated at 495, or 500, do anyone care? 5 HP difference?

    475, 485, or 495 does not matter to me. As long as the engine does not go *pop* anymore.

    The number doesn't matter so much to me either (but a number beginning with a 5 would be very cool), but the character of the power delivery is important to me.  If the engine doesn't explode (figuratively, not literally Smiley) with power as it approaches the high redline, then that would be disappointing.  Hopefully, the cams will not become much more conservative (with power made at a lower rpm).


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    I ran though the FIA GTE regulations again, it would seems like Porsche found a loophole, or at least a liberal interpretation of the rules that FIA agreed to, for the 'mid' engine layout of the RSR, without using a waiver.

    Screen Shot 2017-01-15 at 11.10.00 AM.png

    The important bit:

    Screen Shot 2017-01-15 at 11.14.11 AM.png

     

    Regulations states that the position of the engine is 'free', as long as the orientation remains, and the location too.

    But the location part is the tricky bit but seems like Porsche got it done.

    Without cutout view, we still have no idea how Porsche managed that yet. But really clever.


    --

     

     


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    Maybe by turning the engine 180º. Enough to shift most of the weight to the middle.


    --

    2016 Cayman GT4 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2016 Macan S Diesel - 2013 Mini Cooper S


    Re: 991.2 GT3 Thread Closed

    Ugh, hasn't VW learned from its diesel fiasco?Smiley Fortunately, not much to lose.Smiley


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


     
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