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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    A sport car shouldn't be nondescript. 


    --

    Being adventurous can be risky but routine is lethal.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    sport car should not be a touring angry


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    I saw this car (or an equal one, black with golden rims) driving around on le mans last week, and it was anything but dull! Very very menacing look on the track, absolutely loved it. Prople who think a sportscar should look flamboyant... well, that is their opinion. I understand where you are coming from, but I say to each their own! And I would love to one day spec my gt3 rs in dull looking black!


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    First time I've seen Lizard Green in the sunlight after having seen the car in Geneva at the car show. Have to say the WP combined with Lizard Green looks very aftermarket, not cohesive. Also the color suffers from the same effect as Lava Orange, little bit washed out in direct sunlight. On the other hand, love the green interior with the seat inserts as well as the green stitching.

    Mike

    IMG_0854.JPG
    eVkngRfQSRGw%2exKVlPJw.jpg


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    M3ike:

    First time I've seen Lizard Green in the sunlight after having seen the car in Geneva at the car show. Have to say the WP combined with Lizard Green looks very aftermarket, not cohesive. Also the color suffers from the same effect as Lava Orange, little bit washed out in direct sunlight. On the other hand, love the green interior with the seat inserts as well as the green stitching.

    Mike


    eVkngRfQSRGw%2exKVlPJw.jpg

     Something is wrong here Smiley, the roof should be carbon as well with WP.

    the carbon should be shiny and not mate.Smiley

    I think this is truly aftermarket job Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    the-missile:
    M3ike:

    First time I've seen Lizard Green in the sunlight after having seen the car in Geneva at the car show. Have to say the WP combined with Lizard Green looks very aftermarket, not cohesive. Also the color suffers from the same effect as Lava Orange, little bit washed out in direct sunlight. On the other hand, love the green interior with the seat inserts as well as the green stitching.

    Mike


    eVkngRfQSRGw%2exKVlPJw.jpg

     Something is wrong here Smiley, the roof should be carbon as well with WP.

    the carbon should be shiny and not mate.Smiley

    I think this is truly aftermarket job Smiley

    + 1 . It is aftermarket ...... that's why it looks aftermarket Smiley


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    And I really thought how Porsche could come up with something like that! Did therefore not pay enough attention to the details like roof and rearwing as well as wheels. I think that was it with me being a Porsche enthusiast mail falling for a  pretender!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    MKSGR:
    RC:
    Inspirine:

    I am on the same page. Despite track record in buying new Porsche including 991.1 GT3 RS and track records all together (tracking Porsches in FIA races) I got denied a R, a 991.2 GT2 RS and 991.2 GT3 RS.

    I can't wait to see the back fire happening on Porsche if both things happen in same timing:

    - Trump close borders for Porsche (affecting 40% of Porsche turnover)

    ??? The US could raise import taxes on cars (by 25% or so...) but thats it. Porsche would still be able to sell cars in the US, just at higher prices...or they just bump up EU prices and keep US prices the same. Smiley

     

    It seems likely Porsche would reallocate cars to other (more attractive) markets. Import duties mostly destroy the wealth of the US citizens. But it will take time until the simpler voters will understand Smiley

    Your anti-Trump stand may have blinded you for the fact that Trump actually proposed that all trade tariffs go but the German media, similar to the US one, probably "forgot" to mention Trump's proposal at the G7 meet. Smiley

    There will be an agreement soon, just wait and see. I know this games from my previous job, the economic attache was the biggest bargainer there is in the embassy and everything is about who has the bigger balls. In this case, I think Trump has. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:

    We have an American president who considers his citizens better friends, for once. Also, fair trade and balancing the equation should not cost you friends. At least not the kind of friends worth keeping. We really have no need to pay for or buy our friends. We do have a need to have a president who considers his own country First. No crime in that. I get that some who vote don’t understand that part of voting is supporting the winner or at least not overthrowing him without cause.  So sad. Rome fell how?

    It is not about fair trade - but about breaking contracts. Problem is people who don‘t get it. Do some research and don‘t believe every bs. Keyword: WTO.

    The WTO itself hasn't officially made that statement yet, so why do youSmiley Oh wait... Smiley

    Well, Trump is justifying his moves, at least officially, on grounds of national security. WTO rules allow a country to set tariffs for national security reasons, though it has so far never ruled on a case when that exception was invoked. The US president argues the US needs robust steel and aluminum industries to reinforce domestic production of warships, fighter planes and other national defense requirements.

    Now here is the interesting part: Other countries "retaliating" to Trump's tariffs with stiffer tariffs is actually a breach of WTO rules. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    RC:
    MKSGR:
    RC:
    Inspirine:

    I am on the same page. Despite track record in buying new Porsche including 991.1 GT3 RS and track records all together (tracking Porsches in FIA races) I got denied a R, a 991.2 GT2 RS and 991.2 GT3 RS.

    I can't wait to see the back fire happening on Porsche if both things happen in same timing:

    - Trump close borders for Porsche (affecting 40% of Porsche turnover)

    ??? The US could raise import taxes on cars (by 25% or so...) but thats it. Porsche would still be able to sell cars in the US, just at higher prices...or they just bump up EU prices and keep US prices the same. Smiley

     

    It seems likely Porsche would reallocate cars to other (more attractive) markets. Import duties mostly destroy the wealth of the US citizens. But it will take time until the simpler voters will understand Smiley

    Your anti-Trump stand may have blinded you for the fact that Trump actually proposed that all trade tariffs go but the German media, similar to the US one, probably "forgot" to mention Trump's proposal at the G7 meet. Smiley

    There will be an agreement soon, just wait and see. I know this games from my previous job, the economic attache was the biggest bargainer there is in the embassy and everything is about who has the bigger balls. In this case, I think Trump has. Smiley

    Willing to place a little bet? If there will be a bargain soon you get a large bottle of highest-quality coke from me, the one you like best (Smiley) - if not you owe me a nice bottle of red wine Smiley Hehehe Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    There will be an agreement within the year. Not sure what kind of a agreement and who will benefit most but where will be one. Smiley

    I am more worried about Italy right now...and our own government.

    Not going to agree to that Coke/wine bet though, don't pull a Trump on me. Smiley Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    RC:
    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:

    We have an American president who considers his citizens better friends, for once. Also, fair trade and balancing the equation should not cost you friends. At least not the kind of friends worth keeping. We really have no need to pay for or buy our friends. We do have a need to have a president who considers his own country First. No crime in that. I get that some who vote don’t understand that part of voting is supporting the winner or at least not overthrowing him without cause.  So sad. Rome fell how?

    It is not about fair trade - but about breaking contracts. Problem is people who don‘t get it. Do some research and don‘t believe every bs. Keyword: WTO.

    The WTO itself hasn't officially made that statement yet, so why do youSmiley Oh wait... Smiley

    Well, Trump is justifying his moves, at least officially, on grounds of national security. WTO rules allow a country to set tariffs for national security reasons, though it has so far never ruled on a case when that exception was invoked. The US president argues the US needs robust steel and aluminum industries to reinforce domestic production of warships, fighter planes and other national defense requirements.

    Now here is the interesting part: Other countries "retaliating" to Trump's tariffs with stiffer tariffs is actually a breach of WTO rules. Smiley

    As you might know (?) WTO contracts were negotiated as a complete package, i.e. different tariffs for different goods/countries were agreed by all parties as the complete package was agreeable to all parties. Therefore, if somebody now changed tariffs for one product this is not clever or anything but a breach of contracts. We all know that breach of contracts usually does not help you in winning. At least successful people in business life will confirm, I would say, based on my experience.

    BTW, WTO regulations allow counter-tariffs in reaction to a party breaching the existing contracts, in contrary to your above post Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    RC:

    There will be an agreement within the year. Not sure what kind of a agreement and who will benefit most but where will be one. Smiley

    I am more worried about Italy right now...and our own government.

    Not going to agree to that Coke/wine bet though, don't pull a Trump on me. Smiley Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    I might increase my offer to two bottles of coke then Smiley  You know, I am a genius and a brilliant deal maker, you know. Went to the best schools and am very, very intelligent!!! What a wonderful deal, this is all so wonderful!!!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    MKSGR:
    As you might know (?) WTO contracts were negotiated as a complete package, i.e. different tariffs for different goods/countries were agreed by all parties as the complete package was agreeable to all parties. Therefore, if somebody now changed tariffs for one product this is not clever or anything but a breach of contracts. We all know that breach of contracts usually does not help you in winning. At least successful people in business life will confirm, I would say, based on my experience.

    BTW, WTO regulations allow counter-tariffs in reaction to a party breaching the existing contracts, in contrary to your above post Smiley

    Again: The WTO hasn't declared Trump's step as being a breach of contract, so why do youSmiley

    In return, EU's "retaliation" is a breach of contract according to WTO rules. The WTO may rule that soon and the EU will be in big legal poopoo. Smiley

    Don't try to change the subject, Hillary. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    RC:
    MKSGR:
    As you might know (?) WTO contracts were negotiated as a complete package, i.e. different tariffs for different goods/countries were agreed by all parties as the complete package was agreeable to all parties. Therefore, if somebody now changed tariffs for one product this is not clever or anything but a breach of contracts. We all know that breach of contracts usually does not help you in winning. At least successful people in business life will confirm, I would say, based on my experience.

    BTW, WTO regulations allow counter-tariffs in reaction to a party breaching the existing contracts, in contrary to your above post Smiley

    Again: The WTO hasn't declared Trump's step as being a breach of contract, so why do youSmiley

    In return, EU's "retaliation" is a breach of contract according to WTO rules. The WTO may rule that soon and the EU will be in big legal poopoo. Smiley

    Don't try to change the subject, Hillary. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    It seems we agree to disagree then... 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    MKSGR:
    RC:
    MKSGR:
    As you might know (?) WTO contracts were negotiated as a complete package, i.e. different tariffs for different goods/countries were agreed by all parties as the complete package was agreeable to all parties. Therefore, if somebody now changed tariffs for one product this is not clever or anything but a breach of contracts. We all know that breach of contracts usually does not help you in winning. At least successful people in business life will confirm, I would say, based on my experience.

    BTW, WTO regulations allow counter-tariffs in reaction to a party breaching the existing contracts, in contrary to your above post Smiley

    Again: The WTO hasn't declared Trump's step as being a breach of contract, so why do youSmiley

    In return, EU's "retaliation" is a breach of contract according to WTO rules. The WTO may rule that soon and the EU will be in big legal poopoo. Smiley

    Don't try to change the subject, Hillary. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    It seems we agree to disagree then... 

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    That discussion is going a bit too far for my brain capacity.

    Let's come back to potential impact on Porsche's numbers.

    2018 numbers. How can they achieve good 2018 numbers when main factory is closed for 5 months out of 12 to its biggest market and they can't bill any high margin built to order car? Who in the US will take the risk from dealer to customer to order a built to order car that could be hit overnight by 25% incremental tax (impact 50k on a 200K car, or 80k on GT2RS...)? I don't believe China and rest of word can absorb that loss on 2 biggest regions for Porsche and generate enough revenue to balance that loss. 

    2019. There will be some ramp up in European built to order production. Uncertainty on US market. Launch of Taycan canibalizing Panamera. Where is the growth? Hopefully Macan and Cayenne will sell well in China.

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    Inspirine:

    That discussion is going a bit too far for my brain capacity.

    Let's come back to potential impact on Porsche's numbers.

    2018 numbers. How can they achieve good 2018 numbers when main factory is closed for 5 months out of 12 to its biggest market and they can't bill any high margin built to order car? Who in the US will take the risk from dealer to customer to order a built to order car that could be hit overnight by 25% incremental tax (impact 50k on a 200K car, or 80k on GT2RS...)? I don't believe China and rest of word can absorb that loss on 2 biggest regions for Porsche and generate enough revenue to balance that loss. 

    2019. There will be some ramp up in European built to order production. Uncertainty on US market. Launch of Taycan canibalizing Panamera. Where is the growth? Hopefully Macan and Cayenne will sell well in China.

    Yes, it is going to be interesting to see Porsche's stock value next year... Smiley 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    as much as I want the 992 to be a success again -  the 2nd hand market will get a tremendous beating IMHO


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    Like Trump or not, not only his stance about proposing no more tarifs is genius, but everyone agrees the current tarifs are not fair for the USA, and not just for cars. At least he is trying to do something about it. His negotiations tactics are debatable and the process is quite unevering... But in the end, the USA is a giant net importer so it has a lot more road to play with.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    SciFrog:

    Like Trump or not, not only his stance about proposing no more tarifs is genius, but everyone agrees the current tarifs are not fair for the USA, and not just for cars. At least he is trying to do something about it. His negotiations tactics are debatable and the process is quite unevering... But in the end, the USA is a giant net importer so it has a lot more road to play with.

    Definitely. This is something Trump should have discussed in secret talks, especially with his allies. Not something which needs to go public, just to prove that he (Trump) is doing something for his voters and/or keeping his promises. In the end, people will realize what he did or not, there is no need for showmanship with this.

    We should be careful not to spark a political discussion again. The tariffs for the US are certainly not fair (comparing EU tariffs for cars vs. US tariffs for cars already tells a lot...) but in the end, there will be a solution. Not the solution Trump may want (no tariffs at all)...maybe, many EU countries heavily rely on the funds from tariffs but but there will be an agreement sooner or later. Let's just hope that it will be sooner than later.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    Well it may be backfiring. Harley Davidson just announced that in response to the 31% tariff imposed by the EU on its motorcycles it plans to move some of its production to Europe in order to avoid the tariff. They have not given any indication as to how many jobs will be lost in the US. 

    In the meantime, they stated they will eat the addition tariff of $2200 per bike and not pass it on the their dealers or customers. I would hope Porsche would take a similar route regarding eating the tariff but that's a pipe dream since a 20-25% tariff on my car will be close to $50,000.surprise


    --

     

    Being adventurous can be risky but routine is lethal.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    Australia, Denmark, Sweden, China and Brazil seem to cope well with very high import tariffs on cars. If really the new tarifs come in place, the market will just adapt. Game over for all these overpriced high end Panamera and Cayennes tough. Ferrari and Porsche GT market will finally balance between buyers and production. McLaren, AM, RR and Lambo will suffer. Consumers will lower the model of the car and options to make the price lower, anyhow cars in the USA were cheaper relatively than the rest of the world.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    nberry:

    Well it may be backfiring. Harley Davidson just announced that in response to the 31% tariff imposed by the EU on its motorcycles it plans to move some of its production to Europe in order to avoid the tariff. They have not given any indication as to how many jobs will be lost in the US. 

    I think there is a misunderstanding here: Harley Davidson is not really planning to move production to Europe, they are actually planning to increase production at their facilities in Brasil, India and Thailand. Smiley Not sure however if German customers want to buy a Harley Davidson not made in the US. Maybe... Harley Davidson is trying to make the best out of this and others will try a similar strategy.

    In the meantime, they stated they will eat the addition tariff of $2200 per bike and not pass it on the their dealers or customers. I would hope Porsche would take a similar route regarding eating the tariff but that's a pipe dream since a 20-25% tariff on my car will be close to $50,000.surprise

    They will have no choice (Porsche). This is why I mentioned Porsche's stock price next year...also considering the limited production this year and maybe next year.

    Keep in mind that VW Group, BMW and Mercedes will put a lot of pressure on the German government to find a solution for this conflict, even if they currently have other "issues" with the government.

    I still believe there is going to be some sort of an agreement but I hope it is going to be soon. If this trade conflict continues and another crisis, like possibly in Italy, adds to the situation, this could spark some very nasty reactions on the financial markets.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    Companies in the US and elsewhere will stop investing and hiring because they have no idea if tariffs will be imposed on their products. The stock market is beginning to feel the affects of this stupid gambit on Trump's part. Trade wars are stupid for both sides.

     


    --

    Being adventurous can be risky but routine is lethal.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    How do you propose to solve the current deficient system then? Just go see Merkel, Xi and Macron and ask them nicely to change their tarifs because they are not fair?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    SciFrog:

    How do you propose to solve the current deficient system then? Just go see Merkel, Xi and Macron and ask them nicely to change their tarifs because they are not fair?

    You are aware the US has some stiff tariffs on trucks and pickup trucks? Trump raised the tariff issue because he is trying to save dying industry Steel just as he is doing with coal. With China they have stolen many of our technologies and the horse has left the barn.

    The deficit imbalance between the EU is in favor of the US because we export service industries. In other words, if you include services the EU imports more than it exports to the US.

    That said, I would be for dropping all tariffs.

    China poses a more difficult problem. Because of their heavy investment in the US bonds and other industries, their imbalance regarding manufactured goods is difficult to resolve. At the end of the day we the consumer will pay more. However, if China should stop investing here it will be felt throughout our entire economy.


    --

    Being adventurous can be risky but routine is lethal.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    SciFrog:

    ... But in the end, the USA is a giant net importer so it has a lot more road to play with.

    This is not true - if you include services and company profits (US owned businesses in EU) the negative US trade balance changes into a slightly positive one. Also, as demonstrated with cars, a negative trade balance reflects the insufficient quality of US products in many areas. Often, US products are not the most sophisticated - US mentality is more "it is good enough" whereas German or Japanese producers typically want to build the "very best". Consequently, many US products are perfectly suited for the US market - but not for international markets.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    nberry:

    Well it may be backfiring. Harley Davidson just announced that in response to the 31% tariff imposed by the EU on its motorcycles it plans to move some of its production to Europe in order to avoid the tariff. They have not given any indication as to how many jobs will be lost in the US. 

    In the meantime, they stated they will eat the addition tariff of $2200 per bike and not pass it on the their dealers or customers. I would hope Porsche would take a similar route regarding eating the tariff but that's a pipe dream since a 20-25% tariff on my car will be close to $50,000.surprise


    --

     

    Being adventurous can be risky but routine is lethal.

     

    If German car producers decided to lay-off like 20.000 or 30.000 US workers (of the 110.000 they employ in the US) because they can not longer utilize them given the new tariffs with Asia etc. that would send a nice signal to the US voters. The major damage of Trump's strategy will be borne by the US citizens: if you are at war with all of the world the rest of the world (i.e. everybody else than the US) will get together closer... But it is important that there will be substantial damage to the US economy - so that the voters will realize in time before the next election. That's how democracy works. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018)

    SciFrog:

    Australia, Denmark, Sweden, China and Brazil seem to cope well with very high import tariffs on cars. If really the new tarifs come in place, the market will just adapt. Game over for all these overpriced high end Panamera and Cayennes tough. Ferrari and Porsche GT market will finally balance between buyers and production. McLaren, AM, RR and Lambo will suffer. Consumers will lower the model of the car and options to make the price lower, anyhow cars in the USA were cheaper relatively than the rest of the world.

    Would be interesting - all the US people would look with big eyes on the ROW where they can still afford to drive nice and high-quality cars Smiley But a Chevy Imprezza is such a nice car as well Smiley


     
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