Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    KresoF1:
    artur777:

    no 0-300 times?

    lack of 0-300 understanding for new TT PDK

    and for TTS 0-300 - very interesting to know

     KresoF1, could you give us some himts?


    Artur,

    IMHO you can expect 36s-37sin best case scenario for 0-300km/h for 997.2 Turbo S.


    That would be enough for me. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    i dont knwo

    i dont know what happened to that  PDK in the test til 300;;;

     

    but i bet that  in same conditions PDK TT will be 3-4 sec FASTER than MK1 till 300km/h.....

    and PDK TTS  will put maybe another 2 SEC in the PDK TT.

     

     

     


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    xandi911:

    i dont knwo

    i dont know what happened to that  PDK in the test til 300;;;

     

    but i bet that  in same conditions PDK TT will be 3-4 sec FASTER than MK1 till 300km/h.....

    and PDK TTS  will put maybe another 2 SEC in the PDK TT.


    So that would result in what times? Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

     KresoF1, thanks

    that does mean that PDK TT virtually stops after 270-280 kmh

    may it be caused by gearing -  after the 7th "economy" gear turned on?


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    No. 7th gear is not used with Sport and Sport Plus programms.


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    artur777:

     KresoF1, thanks

    that does mean that PDK TT virtually stops after 270-280 kmh

    may it be caused by gearing -  after the 7th "economy" gear turned on?

    No, in Sport Plus Mode (L.C.) there's no 7th gear. Smiley


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    It is funny to read posts from Brasil, the US or Russia where people seem to care about 200-300 kph performance.  

    Sorry to say that but even for me in (almost) speed unlimited Germany, the 200-300 kph performance is secondary. I care more about 0-100 kph and 100 to 200 kph performance. These are the most important speed ranges in my opinion and I have a strange feeling that some Porsche development engineers finally understood that...before the competition did. Smiley

    Look at the 997 Turbo S performance figures, this is Carrera GT territory. I'm more than impressed and I would also NOT tune these cars for a couple of seconds gain in the higher speed range.

    If I could afford it, I would get the new Turbo S in a second. This is my second favorite car after the 997 GT3 RS.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    KresoF1,

     

    why then TT PDK lose its gains at high speed vs TipTronic one? 


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    RC:

    It is funny to read posts from Brasil, the US or Russia where people seem to care about 200-300 kph performance.  

    Sorry to say that but even for me in (almost) speed unlimited Germany, the 200-300 kph performance is secondary. I care more about 0-100 kph and 100 to 200 kph performance. These are the most important speed ranges in my opinion and I have a strange feeling that some Porsche development engineers finally understood that...before the competition did. Smiley

    Look at the 997 Turbo S performance figures, this is Carrera GT territory. I'm more than impressed and I would also NOT tune these cars for a couple of seconds gain in the higher speed range.

    If I could afford it, I would get the new Turbo S in a second. This is my second favorite car after the 997 GT3 RS.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Christian,

    An excellent post and I fully agree with you.


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

     I dont fully agree. 0-100 has become irrelevant, because in real life it means nothing. It is only important for discussions on the forums and with friends. But in real life, what does it matter ? When will you ever have another (similar) car next to you at a red light, wanting to race ? And even if, who will make sure you both start at precisely at the same time. What difference will it make if your car does it in 3.7 or 3.5 secs, in real life ?

    100-200 and especially 200-300 are very important, at least in Germany, for a simple reason. Because it is much more likely that you will have someone wanting to race, and there the real winner will show. 

    I have never had the need or the chance to race with someone 0-100, but many many times on the highway, above 100 km/h.

    Just my 2 cents...

     


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    LukasLuis:

     I dont fully agree. 0-100 has become irrelevant, because in real life it means nothing.  


    I'd say 0-50 is pretty irrelevant (city driving), but 50-100 is interesting once you pass the city border entering an open country road (o.k. maybe for this situation 60-130 is the more practical yeardstick Smiley)

    On the Autobahn the range from 100-250 is the real life test for me.

     


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    RC:

     

    Sorry to say that but even for me in (almost) speed unlimited Germany, the 200-300 kph performance is secondary. I care more about 0-100 kph and 100 to 200 kph performance. These are the most important speed ranges in my opinion and I have a strange feeling that some Porsche development engineers finally understood that...before the competition did. Smiley

     

    You are getting older  my friend SmileySmileySmiley 200-300 is all that counts Smiley


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    On my local freeway (which is only two lanes), the only important thing is 250-300 km/h, because most of the "ordinary" cars are limited to 250km/h. After that benchmark is the real "game" here...

    But I have seen, that in Germany and other West Europeans countries, the situations and driving discipline is completely different.


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    but   RC Smiley !!! 

    We like to do rolling start  70/80km/h 2º gear to 280/300km/h 5/6º  gear if is possible, then the most important  date of performance is the 200km/h to 300km/hSmiley

    see this situation 997TT + chip vs GT-R chip + exhaust and the camera car is SL 65 AMG + chip the rolling start  is 70/80km/h to 300/315km/h Smiley

    i would like to know Wich is the 0-300km/h of  458? for to know the real potential of 458!!!


    --


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    MKSGR:
    RC:

     

    Sorry to say that but even for me in (almost) speed unlimited Germany, the 200-300 kph performance is secondary. I care more about 0-100 kph and 100 to 200 kph performance. These are the most important speed ranges in my opinion and I have a strange feeling that some Porsche development engineers finally understood that...before the competition did. Smiley

     

    You are getting older  my friend SmileySmileySmiley 200-300 is all that counts Smiley


    +1Smiley


    --

    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    THERE IS NO WAY IN SAME CONDITIONS PDK WILL BE SLOWER THAN THE MKI     FROM 200-300km/h!!!!!!


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

     the figures are not saying this...

    though I would like to hope you are right


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    xandi911:

    THERE IS NO WAY IN SAME CONDITIONS PDK WILL BE SLOWER THAN THE MKI     FROM 200-300km/h!!!!!!

    Why so adamant ?

    This is a new engine, a consumer grade engine not developed for endurance racing, it is a cheaper engine tuned to keep the 911 turbo at the front of the 0-200kph league which as RC unbelievably pointed out is what seems to matter to many modern Porsche owners ....... So far there has been 1 test 200-300kph at Papenburg and on the same day same test other cars lived up to their expected numbers. The only credible testing being reported on at the moment shows that the engine gets hot on the track and the power is pulled (butt dyno)......

    RS Tuning (after being told by Porsche Engineers that "this engine is not for you") broke the first engine they dyno tested, it broke its rods at the 550PS level and is now being re-engineered t0 4 litre with new pistons and rods and special head gasket (another weak point apparently) - they are not over confident of ongoing reliability for the re-engineered lump....


    --

    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    TB993tt:
    xandi911:

    THERE IS NO WAY IN SAME CONDITIONS PDK WILL BE SLOWER THAN THE MKI     FROM 200-300km/h!!!!!!

    Why so adamant ?

    This is a new engine, a consumer grade engine not developed for endurance racing, it is a cheaper engine tuned to keep the 911 turbo at the front of the 0-200kph league which as RC unbelievably pointed out is what seems to matter to many modern Porsche owners ....... So far there has been 1 test 200-300kph at Papenburg and on the same day same test other cars lived up to their expected numbers. The only credible testing being reported on at the moment shows that the engine gets hot on the track and the power is pulled (butt dyno)......

    RS Tuning (after being told by Porsche Engineers that "this engine is not for you") broke the first engine they dyno tested, it broke its rods at the 550PS level and is now being re-engineered t0 4 litre with new pistons and rods and special head gasket (another weak point apparently) - they are not over confident of ongoing reliability for the re-engineered lump....

     OMG, that is horrible news Smiley Thanks for posting Smiley


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    ouch...


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    I am very disstressed after reading your post

     

    thought another forum member KresoF1 who always know a lot about VAG performance cars wrote at the forum that this new DFI engine was capable of 700 PS woth only minor mods...

    look at the 9ff and techart tuning packages for DFI TT? 650-660 PS there... are they dumb if we follow your logic? or what? 


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    TB993tt:

    The only credible testing being reported on at the moment shows that the engine gets hot on the track and the power is pulled (butt dyno)......

    SmileySmileySmiley
     

    Love the old Mezger block in my GT3 Smiley

    I'm wondering how Porsche's future endurance racing engine will look like Smiley

     


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    artur777:

    I am very disstressed after reading your post

     

    thought another forum member KresoF1 who always know a lot about VAG performance cars wrote at the forum that this new DFI engine was capable of 700 PS woth only minor mods...

    look at the 9ff and techart tuning packages for DFI TT? 650-660 PS there... are they dumb if we follow your logic? or what? 


    Yes I saw the 9ff and Techart packages, and the 9ff one with the standard turbos as well and claiming 0-300 in 26s so real hp Smiley

    I can only report what I was told by RS...... I guess one can assume that their (RS's) testing is more demanding, (I think they said 3 days on the engine dyno) and perhaps other tuners have not done *destructive testing*....

    We are in a tuning world where Schmirler tells me I am at the limit of hp at ~660/840NM with stock rods on my Mezger engine whereas there appear to be many US tuned 997tts running around on stock rods with up to and over 800 hp supposedly using the cars with no problems....

    My take on it for the Mezger engines is that these 800hp jobs are not used enough, not loaded the way one can on the Autobahn in 5th and 6th gear constantly (apart from RC who now apperently only goes to 200kph Smiley)   so are holding together..... The 9ff big power engines one does hear of many problems but I don't know of anyone in our rather small Porsche forums community who has one (same goes for Techart) so any problems go untalked about....

    Edit: The destructive testing was a conrod actually breaking apparently....
    --
     

    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    TB993tt:
    xandi911:

    THERE IS NO WAY IN SAME CONDITIONS PDK WILL BE SLOWER THAN THE MKI     FROM 200-300km/h!!!!!!

    Why so adamant ?

    This is a new engine, a consumer grade engine not developed for endurance racing, it is a cheaper engine tuned to keep the 911 turbo at the front of the 0-200kph league which as RC unbelievably pointed out is what seems to matter to many modern Porsche owners ....... So far there has been 1 test 200-300kph at Papenburg and on the same day same test other cars lived up to their expected numbers. The only credible testing being reported on at the moment shows that the engine gets hot on the track and the power is pulled (butt dyno)......

    RS Tuning (after being told by Porsche Engineers that "this engine is not for you") broke the first engine they dyno tested, it broke its rods at the 550PS level and is now being re-engineered t0 4 litre with new pistons and rods and special head gasket (another weak point apparently) - they are not over confident of ongoing reliability for the re-engineered lump....


     

    So Porsche put the Turbo S engine 20hp below  the blowing limit?????????? Please...Smiley

    Might have been a bad engine, just that.

    J.Seven


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    J.Seven:

    So Porsche put the Turbo S engine 20hp below  the blowing limit?????????? Please...Smiley

    Might have been a bad engine, just that.

    J.Seven

     

    There is evidence that the new engne is measuring ~525PS on chassis dynos yet is 3 seconds slower to 300kph than the 480PS Metzger with the last 40-50kph up to 300kph taking the time. It is looking like the ECU allows this big power ~525PS initially then lowers it as the load/heat rises......

    If the above proves the case then there will be a big diference bewteen RS Tuning loading 550PS through the engine, it is a static heat saturating load  and one of these "new strategy" Porsche tuned 530PS units which if it follows the non S will be back at under 500PS as the load/heat rises....

    Just a theory ;)

    Where's Fritz Smiley


    --

    2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    I email link to this thread to my P source in Stuttgart.

    Answer? "Sport Auto high speed test results were strange since that test example was retested and is clearly faster at 0-300km/h when we tested it. "

    "RS Tuning comments are pure speculation. I can tell you that. New engine is conservative at 500ps/650Nm setup in normal Turbo and 530ps/700Nm in Turbo S."

    "New engine is much more efficient then old one."

    "Thread like the one you linked me is only good for second hand 997.1 Turbo and GT2 market. Also it is very good for all aftermarket Porsche tuners. That is very interesting. As you know P. as a company do not support any aftermarket tuner. We think that we know much more about our cars then they do."

    Remark-my translation from original answer in German language.


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

     very interesting.. Then why are they keeping the GT1 engine fro the new GT2 RS that will be 600+hp as per the rumours? There is sth they are not telling us here..


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    TB993tt

    The 9ff big power engines one does hear of many problems but I don't know of anyone in our rather small Porsche forums community who has one (same goes for Techart) so any problems go untalked about....

     

    I do know the 9ff workshop and the proceedings to develop new engine variants and, generally speaking, those are certainly differing from the approach of Schmirler. 


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    KresoF1:

    "New engine is much more efficient then old one."

    Fuel efficient ? I believe that. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (on the ship), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Turbo 997.2 sport auto performance

    To get one thing clear-PDK is the main reason for engine change. GT1 block CAN NOT be combined with PDK-no matter what mechanical changes are made.

    Old GT1 is non DFI state of the art biturbo(in 997.1 GT2) IMHO. New DFI is an excellent engine. BUT, it is not designed with aftermarket tuners in mind. Period.

    Christian,

    You wrote few days ago that for you tuning 997.2 Turbo PDK or Turbo S do not make any sense. I fully agree with you.

    This is way I am so puzzled with interest in aftermarket tuning of 997.2 Turbo engine....


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
    586301 2849
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 12/30/20 9:03 AM
    rhino
     
     
     
     
     
    359184 1279
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/10/21 2:32 PM
    Joost
    87049 1085
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 5/12/21 3:30 PM
    WhoopsyM
    45480 344
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    35644 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
    33483 380
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/11/21 3:34 PM
    watt
    16957 344
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    4598 29
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 7/27/20 2:13 AM
    DJM48
    566517 5257
    Porsche Cayman GT4 5/4/21 4:46 PM
    Topspeed
    407960 3586
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 4/25/21 4:04 PM
    Topspeed
    358898 3916
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 4/29/21 7:24 AM
    GnilM
    356315 3494
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
    317953 3252
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
    310303 2646
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/28/21 8:05 PM
    Topspeed
    219129 1542
    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
    195955 4279
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    161427 1379
    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
    138345 792
    Porsche 992 GT3 5/17/21 3:51 PM
    nberry
    122441 2354
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    106883 1225
    McLaren F1 2/25/21 11:33 AM
    RCA
    77384 207
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 4/29/21 3:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    71443 1163
    AMG AMG GT R 11/19/20 11:47 PM
    Topspeed
    65205 819
    Lambo Aventador and SV 4/20/21 3:21 PM
    CGX car nut
    64276 683
    Porsche 991 Speedster 9/3/20 4:29 PM
    Topspeed
    57635 878
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    43569 596
    Others Bugatti Chiron 4/12/21 3:42 PM
    RCA
    36758 476
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    34246 615
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 5/15/21 1:04 PM
    CGX car nut
    31230 477
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 3/21/21 5:01 PM
    Topspeed
    28858 385
    274 items found, displaying 1 to 30.