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    Autocar Scans for CF

    Christian,
    Here are the scans I promised. Seems to be even more confusion with the numbers - this article has the bhp at 473

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

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    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    I suppose it is 473 HP SAE for the US and 480 HP DIN for Germany, this is where the confusion comes from.

    All these articles are nice and make appetite but they still don't answer some questions. Since I read in two magazines that the weight is going to be aprox. 10 kg lower compared to the "old" Turbo, I think this is a valid statement. But still...there are some questions to ask: if the boost pressure increases by 0.2 bar for 10 seconds, why doesn't the power increase and only the torque? Which brings me back to my theory that MAXIMUM power isn't increased but power at certain rev ranges IS INCREASED by at least 30-40 HP. Meaning: if the engine has lets say a 400 HP output at 4000 rpm, it increased to 440 HP at the same rev range. Now this "trick" should actually make the 997 Turbo the hell of a perfomer on the track since it adds more horses and torque at lower rev figures.
    I'm also surprised that nobody mentions throttle response and turbo lag, maybe driving around an oval circuit doesn't really mean much.

    So unless the 997 Turbo doesn't the Nordschleife below 7:50 and unless it doesn't hit 0-100 mph in below 8 seconds and 0-125 mph below 12 seconds, Ferrari and Lamborghini do NOT have too be worried too much. I still want to believe that the 997 Turbo is the hell of a performer but as much as I can't wait to get my car, I'm still a little bit worried about the final performance. And the top speed of 310 kph is nice and I'm not sure if I'd really need mor but I expected at least 315-320 kph. This is a clear indication that Porsche wants to top the 997 Turbo with a powerkit version and maybe a GT2 version later on. Not that I don't like this idea but I wish the powerkit would be available from the start and I wish Porsche wouldn't be THAT greedy and offer incredible performance in the base car already.

    But like always I give them the credit of doubt and I'm looking forward to the first real performance review.

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    These days 997 turbo will face far tougher competition then before... Ferrari F430 and Lamborghini Gallardo are for sure worthy competitors, Corvette Z06 is offering huge bang for the money(around 80000 Euro with full options in Germany) and let's not forget BMW M6 and Mercedes SL55 AMG(although both are slower on track then 997tt...).
    So, will 997 turbo fullfil our expectations? I think so! But, it want be a lot better(and will it be?) then competition, IMO. It will need to hit 0-200km/h in 12.5s(or something like 12.0s) and time around Nurburgring should be 7:50min or below... Otherwise many potential costumers will look elsewhere.
    I agree with you RC, top speed of 310km/h is nothing special in this class. Both F430 and Gallardo(MY2006) are faster... 997S(X51) is also very close with 300km/h top speed.
    I think Porsche will need some extra "Magic"(read-PDK!) to be again at the top of the class.
    Really hope that I am wrong! Maybe Porsche will suprise us...

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I suppose it is 473 HP SAE for the US and 480 HP DIN for Germany, this is where the confusion comes from.

    But still...there are some questions to ask: if the boost pressure increases by 0.2 bar for 10 seconds, why doesn't the power increase and only the torque? Which brings me back to my theory that MAXIMUM power isn't increased but power at certain rev ranges IS INCREASED by at least 30-40 HP. Meaning: if the engine has lets say a 400 HP output at 4000 rpm, it increased to 440 HP at the same rev range. Now this "trick" should actually make the 997 Turbo the hell of a perfomer on the track since it adds more horses and torque at lower rev figures.



    With information from this article that we know, and interpolating some values, it's conceivable that the 480 HP is due to overboost and the 473 is without. Although this article at least states that "Power remains the same". If the former is not the case, it can be argued that the HP increase is pretty insignificant with the overboost (+7 HP)

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    See attachment.

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Thanks for the scan

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Thanks Atlantis! Though these info might not be new, it keeps the mind from going crazy while waiting for the beast
    -Joost-

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    I suppose it is 473 HP SAE for the US and 480 HP DIN for Germany, this is where the confusion comes from.

    But still...there are some questions to ask: if the boost pressure increases by 0.2 bar for 10 seconds, why doesn't the power increase and only the torque? Which brings me back to my theory that MAXIMUM power isn't increased but power at certain rev ranges IS INCREASED by at least 30-40 HP. Meaning: if the engine has lets say a 400 HP output at 4000 rpm, it increased to 440 HP at the same rev range. Now this "trick" should actually make the 997 Turbo the hell of a perfomer on the track since it adds more horses and torque at lower rev figures.



    With information from this article that we know, and interpolating some values, it's conceivable that the 480 HP is due to overboost and the 473 is without. Although this article at least states that "Power remains the same". If the former is not the case, it can be argued that the HP increase is pretty insignificant with the overboost (+7 HP)



    Alan,

    The overboost can still increase torque up to 4,500rpm's and not change peak HP, since peak HP occurs at higher rpm's than does peak torque. As you can see on those curves you nicely displayed, the torque curves are dropping from basically constant high values ( ) of around 500lb-ft at around 5,000rpm's, whereas the HP figures are not beginning to plateau until about 6,000rpm's, so the overboost effect on peak HP is nil, albeit as the curves demo., HP at a given rpm is affected by about 20-40HP, from 2,000-5,000rpm's. You could be right on the 473/480 peak HP discrepancy (with the emphasis on peak), but I suspect RC is correct in that the difference is in translation of German PS to SAE-HP, since 1PS = 0.9854SAE-HP, so 480PS X 0.9854 = 473SAE-HP.

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    A really nice surprise is that it is 22mm wider than the C4S!!

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Quote:
    randy said:
    A really nice surprise is that it is 22mm wider than the C4S!!



    Yeah, that is a nice surprise.

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Quote:
    randy said:
    A really nice surprise is that it is 22mm wider than the C4S!!



    will it be even more wide?! or you said that for fun ?!

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Quote:
    Aisxos said:
    Quote:
    randy said:
    A really nice surprise is that it is 22mm wider than the C4S!!



    will it be even more wide?! or you said that for fun ?!



    That's what the article states.

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Porsche has known for almost two years what 997 TT competition can do. It is safe to assume the 997TT will exceed their competition performance. If 473hp will do the job, why give it with 500hp when you can charge an arm and leg for the extra hp?

    The 997 TT will beat the 430 and Galardo in performance tests. To me it will be of no consequence.

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Porsche has known for almost two years what 997 TT competition can do. It is safe to assume the 997TT will exceed their competition performance. If 473hp will do the job, why give it with 500hp when you can charge an arm and leg for the extra hp?



    You're right. They do know how to milk every last dollar (or Euro) out of our wallets.

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Porsche has known for almost two years what 997 TT competition can do. It is safe to assume the 997TT will exceed their competition performance. If 473hp will do the job, why give it with 500hp when you can charge an arm and leg for the extra hp?

    The 997 TT will beat the 430 and Galardo in performance tests. To me it will be of no consequence.



    Wow, Nick, this is so nice to hear from you!!!

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    I hate when magazines get technical aspects wrong, page 2 "Huge wing vents feed air to turbos" its feeding air to the intercoolers.

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    BTW it is being reported that Car and Driver magazine has the 997TT doing the Ring in 7.40 with Cup tires. I knew they would find a way to beat the Z06.

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Looks like they finally understood that people on the net, as a mass, are dumb

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Looks like they finally understood that people on the net, as a mass, are dumb



    Brunner with Van Saurma driving a Porsche, anything is possible.

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    randy said:
    A really nice surprise is that it is 22mm wider than the C4S!!



    Yeah, that is a nice surprise.



    Yeh, that'll even surprise Porsche.

    The cars' makers think that the Turbo and C4S are the same width, and that both are 22mm wider than the narrow body C2 models.

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    randy said:
    A really nice surprise is that it is 22mm wider than the C4S!!



    Yeah, that is a nice surprise.



    Yeh, that'll even surprise Porsche.

    The cars' makers think that the Turbo and C4S are the same width, and that both are 22mm wider than the narrow body C2 models.



    But isn't the C4 wider than the C2 by 44mm?

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    randy said:
    A really nice surprise is that it is 22mm wider than the C4S!!



    Yeah, that is a nice surprise.



    Yeh, that'll even surprise Porsche.

    The cars' makers think that the Turbo and C4S are the same width, and that both are 22mm wider than the narrow body C2 models.



    But isn't the C4 wider than the C2 by 44mm?



    Correct

    7:40 with Cup tires gives 7:48 ish with normal tires.
    7:43 for the Z06 but without stopped start gives 7:48

    same time

    case closed on that one

    Re: Autocar Scans for CF

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    randy said:
    A really nice surprise is that it is 22mm wider than the C4S!!



    Yeah, that is a nice surprise.



    Yeh, that'll even surprise Porsche.

    The cars' makers think that the Turbo and C4S are the same width, and that both are 22mm wider than the narrow body C2 models.



    But isn't the C4 wider than the C2 by 44mm?



    AAARGH! OF COURSE IT IS!

    I meant to write 44 mm. The rear fenders are 22 mm wider EACH SIDE!

     
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