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    Internal Motor Modifications

    RC, I have found only one person to date in the US who has performed internal modifications to the 996tt motor. Result-information is hard to come by. I have just started my project. We are knife edging the crank. Machining the heads to accept metal o-rings. Port/Polish the heads along with adding nickasil valve guides. New parts are GT1 oil pump, Ruf titanium conrods, GT3RS springs. May do something to the cam and pistons but no firm information as of yet. The car is a street car used rarely on any track. The car is currently producing just under 650 hp and almost the same amount of torque. Current gearing has the top end limited to 185 mph @ 7000 rpm's. The main purpose of these modificatiions are to maintain present acceleration while raising red line to 8000-8500 rpm's so as to bring the top speed up to about 210 mph.

    RC, do you have any suggestions?

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    Ouch, sounds like big money, a lot of trying and needing a lot of good luck. There are two german Tuners who know A LOT about the 996 TT engine and even have access to classified information to a certain level: RS-Tuning and TTP (Turbo Technik Pietz). Most Tuners don't want to share information with others and/or in public and I can understand that. I wish I could help but I guess the only chance you have is to find a knowledgable Tuner who is willing to cooperate with you. Most Tuners out there try to offer stuff which isn't too expensive and delivers them maximum profit. This is nothing bad but you can't expect "exotic" tuning solutions.
    You didn't tell me how much power you want to achieve. Also you didn't tell me how much money you're willing to spend. If cost doesn't matter, you can build yourself a great sportscar, almost unbeatable on the street.
    The 996 Turbo has a very good basis for high power tuning but it involves high cost too. Funny, most Turbo owners enquiring about engine upgrades, don't want to spend too much money. Sorry I can't help you more, cjv but I have to confess that you made me VERY curious and I'd love to be kept updated about your project. You're a mad dog, man ... you know that ?

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    RC, have spent about $110,000.00 on modifications (motor, aero, tranny, brakes suspension, roll bar etc. I've wasted about $20,000.00 of that amount in "learning." Doing it two and sometimes three times. The above internal modifications will have an additional 15 to 20K to complete. In addition to the internals we are also custom building the air intake to the turbos so as to provide even better breathing, for the second time. This will cost about 5K.
    Regarding HP/Torque, I am satisfied with present power. The modifications will probably bring it up to 700+ and be reliable. I really want is to explore the 7000 to 8500 rpm range which will raise my top end and at the same time keep the present acceleration. I may be doing things a couple times here in the cam area. Just as I have shared all my information arriving at the approx. 650 hp plateau, will also share the results of the current experiment. If you happen across any interesting information, please let me know. Thanks.

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    Wow, I'm impressed.
    Yes, please keep me updated with all mods. If I run over something interesting, I'll contact you.

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    I do not know if teh RUF titanium con rods are better than the GT3 Cup one (I hope) but the Gt3 Cup one, are NOT good enough for such an engine. I would go with custom Carillo (or Pauter if they have any).

    Did you changed the hydraulic lifters? what cam profile do you use?

    Konstantin

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    In January of this year I heard the same thing about the titanium conrods. Five months of investigating has turned up no solid information. Hear say and third party persons have been all the proof to date. If you have first hand information I would be very interested. This is not a "race" or "track only" car. Most of the time it will be on the street. For response, acceleration and high rpm's (8400 max.) I can not see carrying around the extra 210 grams recipicating weight per cylinder.

    The cams and lifters are still yet to be determined. Probably will stay with the hydrolic lifters and re profile the cam. I want to still pass smog tests. If you have any constructive information to share it would be appreciated.

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications ... update

    Now this is the information I got:
    Up to 7400 rpm is safe for the engine under any conditions, no mods necessary.
    Even up to 7600 rpm shouldn't be a problem.
    Most tuners don't go over that because there is a serious problem with tires (top speed too high).
    Safely raising the redline to around 8400 rpm is possible but as you know, internal mods are necessary. The titanium conrods are a good idea but they usually aren't that durable for a long period of time. Important is weight, it doesn't have to be titanium.
    Very important is modifying the valve guides. Pistons and camshafts are very important too. Over 8000 rpm, get rid of the hydro ... (sorry, forgot the english word but I think you know what I mean).
    Crank mods are actually the last thing which have to be done.
    Hope this helps a bit.

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    The info comes from a very experienced Geramn Tuner.
    Fact is tha the Titan rods are not as strong a sthe carillo one. . You must consider tha the 8400 Turbo RPM are not the same as the 8400 NA RPM.
    The gas presusure is diferent and the load on a Turbo engine is bigger.
    He said it "may" be ok for a street engine that ocasinally see very high RPms and for very short time, but he would definatelly do NOT put them in a race engine or in an engine that would "race" at the Autobahn at high speeds on a saturday mornig.

    Konstantin
    PS Are they from Pankl the rods that you bought? RUF do not make rods by him self.

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    Konstantin, since I have not received the rods as of yet I do not know the actual manufacturer. Regarding, un named sources...I ignore them. If I had not I would not be presently running the Ruf exhaust. I don't know if he makes his own, but according to my dyno tests the Ruf exhaust has out performed all the ones I tested. I find it amasing that everyone has the best produce but few will advertise what their produce produces. This industry has far to much petty jealously for me. I believe if a person has actual facts they should have no fears in presenting them forthright and open. Now if this person wants to do that then I would be all ears.

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications ... update

    RC, I am addressing the cam and the valve guides. However, I was planning to leave the pistons alone. Any further information about the pistons?

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications ... update

    The only information I got about the pistons is to reduce weight as much as possible without compromising durability. I couldn't get more details because these guys never give out too much information, this is really ridiculous. Only one thing: they got out of a normally aspirated GT3 engine precisely 460 HP SAE power without compromising tracking reliability. So I guess they know what they're talking about. The engine was capable of 8900 rpm but during racing, they ran it at max. 8300 rpm to be on the safe side.

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    I am not sure I understand what do you mean. The unamed tuner is one of the two best and his name was discussed a few times on this board. It dosen't matter which name you will choose of the both that are discussed on this board both are top and both work together.
    Both are always on the top three on any serie they atentend and both are not known in the US. (except by the insiders)

    I do not want to make advertisment on this board but it is really not difficult to find out which one I mean. RC already mentioned the name. I thought I just put some infos. It is your decission what to do. If you do not believe me take teh plane and I will make an apointment for you. It may have a few min time for you but you will hear a lot of tech stuff that you never heard before. The problem is that the companies that make sthe big advertisment are not the bets!
    the best do not have any time to make advertisment. A quick look at the racing results in Porsche racing this year (or the last years) will show you who is good and who not.
    Sorry But I do not believe on the tuners names that you usually see on magazins that wins some tuner wars etc.
    the right guys win at the track and what wins on the track is good enough for the street.

    Konstantin

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    Very well said, Konstantin.
    Didn't the Tuner you mentioned make the 2nd place on the 24 hour race on the Nuerburgring ?

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    I guess you are correct, they are not well known in the US. What examples I have seen are good, but not the very best "on the street" over here. I guess it just amounts to different types of usage in different countries. The same would probably hold true with our Porsche modified cars run on German roads as you have already pointed out.

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    No it was the other one who can afford to chose the customers but both work together for years ;-)

    there is no problem to tell them to make you the engine stronger but you will know that this will not last at the Autobahn or at the track. Most people who buy cars from these guys use them on the track. On the street they will last for ever probably. The 520 HP 993 TT lasted 60000 km track and street using. A car from the "magazin" tuners will last only some laps at Nurburgring.

    It always depends what do you want to do with your car. Power is not a problem. Reliability is a problem and this is what is realy expensive and what you pay for!

    Konstantin

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    hi cjv,

    they are talking about:

    RS-Tuning - Reinhold Schmirler
    Am Bach 1
    87755 Kirchhaslach
    Tel.: 0 83 33 / 9 35 00 - Fax: 0 83 33 / 9 35 01

    and

    http://www.t-t-p.de/
    if i'm not totally wrong.
    both are porsche tuners in germany.

    pankl is an austrian who build cams for e.g. formula 1 (18.000 rpm). not cheap but the best money can buy.
    www.pankl.com

    sorry, christian and konstantin - i don't understand why you make such a secret out of an information.
    cjv wants to have an engine where money is not important.
    why won't you tell him, where he gets the (in your opinion) best parts and solution?

    you are not responsible for his decision, if he follows you. (now i am )

    keep on racing
    rsv

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    cjv knows exactly about what Tuner we're talking about, don't worry The engine of the GT3 who made the 2nd place on the 24 hour race on the Nuerburgring is built by RS-Tuning. Reliable 460 HP, not bad, ehh ?!
    This is what I was talking about: good Tuners always race their cars or at least do work for other race teams.
    Big and flashy doesn't mean good.
    Why we don't use names ? Well, personally I don't want to give Users the impression that I want to sell them something. I'm not into car business, I don't sell parts and/or cars and I want to keep Rennteam.com as independent as possible. If somebody wants to sponsor us in the future, this is OK with me but I won't keep my mouth shut. Not even if we're talking about products by possible sponsors. Maybe this is one reason we don't have a sponsor yet. I talked several times to Reinhold Schmirler, the brain behind RS-Tuning and this guy is absolutely incredible. If it is about engine tuning, I bet there is almost no better source than him. When he starts talking about engines, he doesn't stop anymore.

    I know that some german and US Tuners offer more impressive power figures but people shouldn't always be impressed with that. We're talking about reliability, honesty and real life performance and then, things look different. People who are impressed by events like the Tuner Grand Prix should know one thing: it is a difference if you drive a tuned Turbo for a few km or a few thousand km (as on the street). From my experience, there is a huge difference between what Tuners promise and what their products really can do. Unfortunately many people are blind and are too easily impressed by high HP outputs and so called "test data" from magazines or track events.

    Re: Internal Motor Modifications

    Hi rsv.....and thank you very much. The way we are building the motor, knife edgeing the crank, titanium conrods, GT1 oil pump, improved valve guides and double machined metal head o-rings and dry lube impregnation of bearings, crank journels, oil pump, piston ring grooves, skirts, valve stems and faces etc. In addition we are using GT3RS springs treated with heat dispersant. The bottom of the pistons will also be treated with heat dispersant. The tops of the pistons and valves will be ceramic coated. I'm not really worried about longevity. My big question mark has been the cam and lifters. You gave me some information which I greatly appreciate. No one is responsible for this motor but me. Thanks again for the help.....Chad

     
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