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    Now THIS is a real supersportscar

    An absolut stunning car. I want one...



    Re: Now THIS is a real supersportscar

    some more informations:

    I think, RC is going to buy an new car

    Lamborghini gets ready to introduce a second model at Geneva 2003

    For the first time in over a decade, Italian sports car manufacturer Lamborghini will offer a second model line as of 2003. The completely new Lamborghini model, named Gallardo (pron. : ga:yàrdo), will be introduced at the Geneva Motor Show in March next year.

    The new Lamborghini takes its name from a famous fighting bull breed, selected since the 18th century by bull breeder Francisco Gallardo and then incororated by Don Antonio Miura.

    Fierce, robust - black or grey - the Gallardo bulls were renowned for their courage and also for their power and aggressiveness until the so-called last 'third' of the corrida.

    The new Lamborghini Gallardo will be a mid-engined four-wheel drive sportscar in true Lamborghini tradition, powered by an all-new V10 cylinder Lamborghini engine with 5 litres of displacement and a stunning 500 hp. Figures that will guarantee an outstanding performance.

    Power transmission will be through a 6-speed gearbox with a traditional gear shift lever or a new sequential 'e-gear' with shift paddles at the steering wheel.

    Production of the all-new Lamborghini V10 cylinder engine has already started on the newly built assembly line at Lamborghini's own engine facility at the Sant'Agata Bolognese plant.


    Thank you Grant!!!
    What a car!!!
    Celine, I know you don't like Lambo but THIS is amazing!!!
    Looking forward to see the official pics, unless the ones Auto express published are?

    You're welcome, Fanch, but I didn't post it...

    Re: Fantastic!!!

    I can't access to the picture, please send it to me by mail... But you know I never like Lambo, I'm not sure that this one will make me change...

    Re: Now THIS is a real supersportscar

    In reply to:
    I think, RC is going to buy an new car

    If they'll build it to look like the one on the picture...highly possible. It depends on performance and price tag.
    0-200 in 12 seconds, a price tag of maximum 120000 EUR and this baby is mine.

    Re: Now THIS is a real supersportscar

    Humm, I'm afraid it's gonna be closer to EUR 150,000

    Re: Now THIS is a real supersportscar

    I remember reading somewhere an interview from a Lamborghini spokesmen who said that it would be priced roughly 5-10% more than the 360.
    That makes it for around 137-143000 Euros.
    Which, given the specs seems about right.
    I wonder if the chassis is aluminum or not and if they were able to keep the weight under 1400 kgs?

    Christian: out of curiosity, if the sequential gearbox were a fast and reliable one and didn't cost a fortune, would you opt for it?

    No way the weight will be under 1400kg

    Even if aluminum, with the AWD, it will be heavy. All of the aluminum Audis (of which this is one) are very heavy despite the lightweight metal.


    Honestly...I don't know. To appreciate a sequential shifting system, you have to drive it for a few thousand km and also on the track. I have to admit that I never had the chance to drive such a system for a longer period of time.

    It might have some advantages if it is a fast and reliable system and if you get used to it. I know this hasn't to do much with sequential shifting systems but on my wife's SLK 32 AMG, I really have problems using the manual gear change (left/right) on the speedshift automatic transmission. I think I'm used too much to real manual and even if the buttons were near the steering wheel, it wouldn't help me much. I tried to use the buttons on the Cayenne Turbo I testdrove (Tiptronic S) but didn't like it.

    I truely think that I'm the wrong person to ask, sorry Luigi.

    BTW: I'm still in love with the Murcielago and if the new Baby Lambo offers a similar style and same performance, I might go for it. My wife would kill me though.

    Re: Luigi...

    Somehow I conceive of the Lambo marque with bachelors... who knows, maybe lots of married guys drive them... but I am guessing otherwise... Is that why your wife would kill you RC??!! Just kidding...

    Re: Luigi...

    My wife actually thinks that any supersportscar in our family would be waste of money because I (we) won't have the time to drive it. My 996 Turbo stays in the garage now most of the time and my daily driver became the SLK 32 AMG. It is fun to drive this little baby (and to see the surprised faces of some Porsche drivers ) but this is no substitute to a Porsche, not to speak about the 911 Turbo.

    So I have two choices for a future sportscar:
    1. not buying any sportscar anymore and going for a Porsche Cayenne Turbo, Mercedes E 55 AMG or maybe even a C 32 AMG Coupe (special order) to be able to have a daily driver which isn't too spectacular to shock my customers.
    2. buying an exotic sportscar like a Lamborghini ("Baby" or Murcielago) or Ferrari and keeping it for the next 10 years but not being able to drive it very often.

    Don't get me wrong: I'm still a Porsche addict and I love Porsche cars but italian horses always fascinated me and Porsche becomes more and more a mass producer, making the products nice, reliable and fast but starting to lack a bit of "soul". Or maybe I'm just fed up to see a 911 at almost every corner over here in Germany. A few years ago, owning a Porsche said a lot about it's owner, it was something special. Now, almost everybody who can afford it, goes for a 911 because of reputation and brand name. I don't want to sound arrogant but this is the reality. The 911 is now to people of mid ages (30-45) what the S-class is to upper ages (45-60). At least over here in Germany.


    I can definitly sympathize with you,
    I feel the same, especially here in London, the 911 has become THE car to own for all young successfull city bankers, ans the worst is, they probably only use 10% of the car's abilities.
    It's not about the performance anymore, it's about the image.
    The 911 has become an icon, an establishment.
    Fantastic car, but losing "soul" gradually I think too.
    My next car (god knows when?) will most probably be italian.
    I think you should definitly go for an italian sports car next Christian, otherwise you will really miss the "sports cat" feeling, and you will regret IMO.
    Cars like the Cayenne and the Mercs are even more soul less than the 911, you want a car tha puts a grin on your face when you fire up the engine
    Ok, not the ideal solution for the family, but a nice family car will sort that out (like an X5 3L, perf ok, not too expensive and much better looking than the Cayenne) or keep the Merc ML for a while.
    Met the importer of De Tomaso for France this week end, very nice guy. Are De Tomaso any good, or should I just forget about it?

    Re: Luigi...

    in an era where with ESP and active suspensions nearly anyone can drive fast and a 500 HP merc S class does 0-100 kph in approx 4 secs, what is sports car entusiasm all about? fascination! but porsches really lost soul and the cayenne IMO nailed the coffin. i went to my porsche dealers this weekend -- it was so annoying what kind of people were hanging out there, pretending (or actually having? who knows) interest in the cayenne. i said quite some time ago that mid and long term porsche is going to face a lot of problems if they continue this strategy. what they do not have to forget is that the customers who are just buying a 911 or cayenne because it's hip or "a porsche" may just change to a merc SL or a BMW 6, X5 or whatever. they are not very faithful.

    i personally decided quite some time ago that my next car will be the modena successor (and after luigis latest 360 stradale rumours i am really fighting with myself if this was the right choice ) -- i thought about the lambo L140 as well (i adore the murcielago), but i fear that it might become too audi-ish. a lambo V10 (why V10? it's marketing only, because of current F1 regulations) based on an audi V8 with 2 cylinders added... well we have to wait and see.

    anyway, it's a good time for sports car enthusiasts with a lot to choose from -- but it may not be a good time for porsche.

    regards; zz

    Re: Luigi...

    I think it is a great time for Porsche!
    The firm has never ever done so well in its entire history.
    Going mass production is the only way to stay independant,
    and the cost is, lack of soul inevitably
    But, with cars like the Cayenne, that helps them make cars like the Carrera GT and GT3, now THESE are Porsche.
    I think PAG is becoming a mini Merc or BMW.
    Don't get me wrong, I don't think they'll ever make small town cars or diesel, but nowadays, success has to go through diversification.
    Next Porsche will be a 4 passengers car, hopefully a coupe but you never know.
    For people like us, there are still cars like the GT3 and the GT2, and even the 996 in general if you drive it properly but Italians surely have more charisma, there's no doubt about that.
    I don't think Porsche is getting lost, on the contrary, I think they know exactly where they're going, even if the price to pay is to lose hard core fans like us, at the end of the day, they'll win, trust me, they've done their homework.
    The Cayenne will be a huge success, the 997 will be even more electronically assisted and easy to drive,
    And meanwhile, Ferrari and Lamborghini still make hardcore sports cars, ouf, we're saved.
    As for Lambo, I wouldn't worry too much about its Audi ownership, I think the Gallardo is going to be fantastic. V10, marketing reasons only? Humm, maybe, but who cares!!! It's a V10

    Re: Luigi...

    Christian, I really understand your feelings.
    You know that one of the reasons I decided to sell my GT2 was that even though extremely capable it was not the "special" car I thought it would be.
    Carachter (sp) is what made the 911 so successful, we have to remember that the 911 legend began and prospered at the time when the cars were pretty rough and challenging to drive quickly.Now that is the ingredient that is missing a little, and as a Porsche lover this really hurts.
    Concerning your situation, being able to drive your sport car less than before, only on weekends, you should have something that really stirs your soul when you drive it and also makes you tremble at the knees when you just look at it, something that is an event every time you drive it.
    Even if the total package is not as rounded or perfect like your current car.
    Please, don't give up on sport car ownership, I truely believe you will regret it pretty soon.

    Re: Luigi...


    mhmm... i have to admit that some arguments of yours are quite right... well, sometimes, especially concerning PAG, i tend to see things too negative -- or let's say too critical
    it's for sure that porsche is very successful RIGHT NOW. but what about the future?

    why is the cayenne a success? ok-- it seems to be a brilliant SUV. but the instant success is because of the EXTREMLY strong porsche brand value. but how far can you stretch it? how long will it last?

    IMO in this marketing driven world there's nothing more worth than a strong brand, associated with a core competence. we'll all see how it works out. but being "a porsche driver" has become something different recently.

    Re: Luigi...

    agreed luigi! although i know christian only from this forum, i can't imagine at that he does not own or drive a sports car UNBELIEVABLE! DO NOT DO IT!

    i'm facing the same problem -- lack of emotion... currently, i drive a carrera and a X5. both are good daily drivers, but what you already said about your GT2 is at least 9,040,309.2% true for the in comparison quite ordinary carrera

    for the future i decided to go for a very emotion car (ferrari) and a not-so-costly daily driver, maybe a mini cooper S, maybe a 3 series, maybe something else. i don't know yet.


    PS. i'm glad to see that you've got your 4 star rating back

    Porsche lack of soul vs. Sexy Italian

    I disagree that Porsche has lost its soul going Cayenne. Sure, maybe some sense of "exclusivity" is lost when so many people drive 996s in the City. However, speaking for myself, I could have gone for a Modena or a Lambo and I opted for a Turbo because it was understated and didn't scream SPORTS CAR the way the Italian exotics do... I like the understated performance of the Porsche marque.

    Also, the ability to tune the car, with a whole mini industry devoted to allowing the owner to customise the 996 to fit his/her preferences is a big draw for me. I think Porsche has the edge here vs. other marques (leaving out companies like BMW/Audi here). I own a 986 in addition to my 996 TT. Someday soon, when my fiance (read chairman of the board) allows, I hope to fit a 996 engine into my little Boxster, turbochage it, enhance the suspension and turn it into a track car... I can do this for a reasonable price. Now THAT will be a kick in the pants...

    Lastly, I could care less about poseurs and middle aged idiots who "shouldn't" be behind the wheel of a Porsche... Since I am not one myself-- I tend to think of the driver world in terms of Before vs. After skip barber racing school-- I feel utterly, insanely delighted driving my Boxster and my 996 tt.

    I have to say, some of the exclusivity talk here sounds like my conversations with my 16 year old son. He rants and raves about seeing people driving Porsches that ought not to be... WHO CARES... really now... this is silly. Dr. Seuss dealt with this issue in his book about the Sneeches with "Stars upon thars"...

    Re: Porsche lack of soul vs. Sexy Italian

    Fair enough Brooks,
    You are right actually, at the end of the day, who cares who drives what?
    It's all down to how much pleasure do you get from the car yourself.
    See, I am NOT saying I am a poseur, but aesthetics are important for me, hence, maybe the italian choice for the next car, but I couldn't agree more that if you want an understated car, that looks more or less like any other 911 and want to beat EVERYTHING that moves on the road, then yes, it has to be the Turbo, this car is a gem, what a fantastic engineering achievment
    But for me, it's more than that, firstly, the situation in France is getting worse by the day, government has voted new laws against speeding, now, if you exceed the limit by more than 50 kmh, the car is confiscated on the spot, if you do it again, you go to jail (true guys!!!) , plus more and more radars averywhere (BTW, be extra careful in Paris now )
    So, where do I find my pleasure?
    In the exclusivity, in the sound it makes, in the craftmanship, in the beauty of the car and for that, it has to be an italian, even if I know very well, that, would it be a 360, there is no point chasing a 996 turbo, but the first car would still give me a bigger grin
    Like Tiff Needell wrote in Top Gear mag a while ago,
    "If you can afford only one and are going to drive it everyday, go for the Porsche, but as a second car, I'd go for the 360, I know the 911 is faster but hey, I could live with that!"
    BTW, Tiff recommends then an M5 as a daily driver
    End of the day, it's all subjective, but my point is, and even more today with the laws, that there is more to a car than sheer performance only.

    Re: Porsche lack of soul vs. Sexy Italian

    Yes, it seems Ferrari cars are sexier than Porsche cars for 1 reason. Ferrari is producing around 3,500 cars a year whilst Porsche (right now before the Cayenne launch) is producing close to 60,000 units or 17x more.

    The difference is clearly exclusivity, scarcity... For example when was the last time you saw a Ferrari 328 or a Testarossa? I'm sure in the past few days, you all saw many Carrera (3.2l) or 911 SC. Aston Martins are so exclusive that it's always a real pleasure to see one (especially if it's an old one). Another example the BMW M3 or M5 are fantastic cars but they are a bit "boring" because we see hundreds of thousands 3 series and 5 series....(BMW is now producing approximately 1.0m cars).

    We also have to bear in mind that a lot of Porsche are used as daily commuters which makes them "less appealing".

    What I really like in my Porsche, it is Jekkyl and Hyde in one car. I use it as a daily commuter and I drive safely and calmly enjoying the torque and the CDs. On weekends when I go to the race track or any other event, the 911 is turning into a ferocious machine. OK it's not the best race car in the world but who cares.... I don't, adrenaline is at it's maximum level and I'm having fun.... I'm not a professional driver and I know I will never win a race...

    Bottom line, may be the best of both worlds would be to own like zzboba was saying a Mini Cooper S and a Ferrari... For the time being I can't so I'll stick to my 911. My dream would be to have a Cayenne and a 2.7l RS...but this another story. We are very close to Christmas and may be Santa will read this post...

    Re: Luigi...

    In reply to:
    Concerning your situation, being able to drive your sport car less than before, only on weekends, you should have something that really stirs your soul when you drive it and also makes you tremble at the knees when you just look at it, something that is an event every time you drive it.

    I guess you just read my heart's feelings.

    My wife doesn't want me to sell my Turbo but on the other hand, the Turbo isn't necesserarily a car which can (or should) be driven for the next 10 years. With over 4500 produced Turbos per year, it is already a mass production car.
    What also me off a little bit is the fact that resale value isn't what I expected. I know we have tough times for selling expensive sportscars but anyway. Lucky me I don't have to sell my car because I need the money, I'd be busted.

    What am I complaining about anyway? I have a SLK 32 AMG as a daily driver (a car which hits 0-200 kph in almost the same time as the 360 Modena if I trust the newest AMS test of the MY 2003 supercharged 3.2 l engine ) and it is a Cab too. OK, the automatic transmission sucks and the ESP jumps on all the time. But it is fun. I also own a ML55 for the family, a SUV which still outruns many so called "sportcars" out there and finally I own a 996 Turbo with lots of power.

    So yes, Luigi...I should listen to my heart, forget about selling the Turbo and enjoy my life as it is now. But someday, I get a Lambo or a Ferrari, I'm pretty sure about it. Hopefully the stock markets go up rocket high again.

    Re: Luigi...

    In reply to:
    What also me off a little bit is the fact that resale value isn't what I expected

    RC, if i remember it right, you said some time ago that when buying a sports car DO NOT look on the might-be resale value. if you have the money to buy it, buy it. drive it. enjoy it

    Resale Value

    I never cared about resale value when I wanted a car but when I tried to sell my Turbo, I realized how much money you loose on such a car. As I never owned such an expensive sportscar, it was a pretty annoying experience. Happy me I don't need to sell my car. I'd be really in trouble.
    Funny: the only person who offered me an acceptable (but still low) price was my Mercedes case I wanted to order a SL 55 AMG.
    I ended up with a SLK 32 AMG as a daily driver, a 996 Turbo with lots of power in my garage (for those sunny days) and a ML 55 AMG family car. Well, why should I complaint?

    However, I'd really like to own one of these babies but it might take another few years until I'll be able to do it...or not. Time will tell.

    Re: Resale Value

    well, you can't complain at all

    IMO it's the greatest experience for any merc sales staff if a customer trades in his porsche for a SL (or whatever model)... they really love it! when i drive by at my local merc dealership i always notice the used porsches placed very prominent outside -- crying out "look! even former porsche drivers prefer riding a merc now!"

    but anyway, car depreciation is really getting worse. no doubt. so many high priced vehicles out there... i wonder who wants them used? and with all these electronics aboard they even do not suit as classics -- IMO in 20 years time the 993 will be a way hotter youngtimer than the 996.

    regarding your L140 lambo plans: IMO nothing is more expensive than the 996TT. when i though about my next car, i came to the conclusion that it'll be either the 996TT or the [next] modena. when i put in all the options i'd like to have in the turbo, it'll sum up to EUR 150,000 -- not with the modena, who'll suit me nice with standard options, maybe adding race seats. and ferrari's [actually fiat bank's] leasing offer was also way below the porsche offer. i do not underestimate the running costs, though. but for the extra in fascination, i decided: it's worth it.



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