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    Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Does anybody have experience with the disengable sway bars?

    Thanks,
    Charles

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    No one yet. The field is wide open Charles. Order a Cayenne with this package and be the first to report on it.

    Seriously, I am very interested in this package so I would welcome any comments on it. The current issue of Panaroma has some tests on the Cayenne in Finland and one of the vehicles had this option. They make some brief comments on the locking rear differential but in the same sentence say they also locked the front differential. I guess I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they meant the frontmost locking differential, which would be the center diff. In any event, there was very little descriptive comment on the functioning of this option so we will have to wait on some other source. My dealer says no one has ordered it yet here in Austin.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    That would be cool if the Cayenne did have a locking front differential!

    Is anyone familar with any other production vehicles that has this capability?

    I am considering getting a TT and would probably order it with this option. Dealers don't seem to be orering their spec cars with it. Probably better anyways so all the production bugs are worked out of this new model!

    I don't off-road for fun, but do have a need, 4-5 times a year, to drive on logging roads, after long highway drives. Who says there isn't a real target market for a Cayenne!

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Quote:
    Is anyone familar with any other production vehicles that has this capability?




    The Jeep Rubicon is fitted with locking Dana's front and rear.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Sorry, I was referring to disengaging sway bars (not a locking front diff). Not sure if any other vehicle has these...

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Help!!! GM, you will probably be able to explain this to me the best. The Cayenne has the reduction gear which is engaged with one flick of the center rocker. Two flicks gives me the message that the longitudinal lock is engaged, I thought this locked front and rear diffs for 4 wheel drive. I've been warned against driving on dry pavement with this engaged as it is said to be detrimental to the dive components. In short what does the longitudinal lock mean?

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Hmmm ... I don't think so either, not currently anyway. I am thinking I might have read of another car, but it was a concept car, not a production vehicle. The idea has been around awhile though with some aftermarket devices for the truly dedicated off-roader.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    I believe power to front and rear wheels are locked, but front L and R are not locked since there is no front locking differential. Thus you could get front wheelspin (if it weren't for the traction control).

    Based on experience, traction control is not a great substitute for a locking diff (not to mention no LSD like in the X5), but in the case of the Cayenne, it is a fine compromise given the presence of the longitudinal and rear locking diffs.

    So on a huge vehicle like the Cayenne, I wonder what would provide the better incremental off-road capability: locking front diff (which is unavailable) or disengaging sway bars.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Quote:
    In short what does the longitudinal lock mean?




    Only the center differential is locked, the front and rear differentials are still open. If the center were open, and you had no traction control, you could be stuck if only one wheel is off the ground. With traction control, the brake is applied to the spinning wheel and traction is reestablished. The locking differential makes this much smoother though and supplies power to the front and rear even if one end is slipping. With the Advanced Off-Road Package you also get a locking rear differential which will keep the left and right rear wheels turning in unison.

    It is not good to drive on pavement with any differential locked. Always unlock on pavement. The pavement doesn't allow slippage the way dirt or snow does and you can make something in the drivetrain bind and /or break.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Ahhh... another reason for the Advanced Off-road package, locking rear diffs!

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Only the center differential is locked, the front and rear differentials are still open. If the center were open, and you had no traction control, you could be stuck if only one wheel is off the ground. With traction control, the brake is applied to the spinning wheel and traction is reestablished. The locking differential makes this much smoother though and supplies power to the front and rear even if one end is slipping. With the Advanced Off-Road Package you also get a locking rear differential which will keep the left and right rear wheels turning in unison.




    Good summary, GM.

    A few observations:
    1. The original 4WD systems were part-time systems with NO differential in the transfercase. When 4WD was engaged, the front and rear driveshafts were locked together.
    2. Center (transfercase) differentials were introduced with full-time 4WD systems. Altho I understand that some of these (on so-called 'all-wheel-drive' vehicles) center diffs aren't limited slip or lockable, those in Jeep Wagoneers/Wranglers/Cherokees/Grand Cherokees are at least limited slip and to some extent torque-distributing.
    3. The C's center diff is always torque-distributing (38/62% F/R in normal traction circumstances; the Toureg's is 50/50) and as already mentioned, locks in the 2nd-forward off-pavement-switch position.

    I've had mine off-pavement many times in rocky, lumpy, very low-traction situations, and while the traction-control system works, it's very jerky in application. That is, when the system brakes a spinning tire, it does so quickly and not smoothly, so the other tire then loses traction momentarily. It appears to be a back-and-forth situation that makes the boucing about that one gets on 4WD trails even rougher.

    My parts dept. says the locking-rear-diff assembly is part number 955-332-0205, retails for over $2100, and is not in stock anywhere in the Porsche system. Maybe some day I'll buy and install one to make 4-wheeling lots smoother.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Thanks for the addendum Jeffrey.

    I might consider retrofitting the rear locker as well. If it ever becomes available. I wish it had been an option from the beginning. I believe it was on the Touareg and at $500 when factory installed. I am facinated with the disengageable sway bars but do not think they are going to contribute greatly to off-road ability, not enough increased articulation. But, wait and see I guess.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    I am facinated with the disengageable sway bars but do not think they are going to contribute greatly to off-road ability, not enough increased articulation.



    Me too. Altho I can only imagine just how much traction increases with increased articulation, I can't imagine retrofitting that to an existing C. Besides, some of that system's stuff occupies space in the left-rear compartment that I've filled with jumpercables, towing stuff, gloves, elastic holddowns, etc.

    I'm serious on the rear locker and will continue pursuing it; I'll keep you folks informed.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Y'all have convinced me I should get the advanced off road package and therefore order one instead of the instant gratification of buying off the lot!

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Quote:
    GoPlay said:
    Y'all have convinced me I should get the advanced off road package and therefore order one instead of the instant gratification of buying off the lot!



    You're welcome!

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Put me down for the rear locker for sure. Detachable sways would be nice, but I can only imagine the effort required to bang those in there....

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Here's a link to previously posted info on the sway bars:

    rennteam web page

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Thanks for the addendum Jeffrey.

    I might consider retrofitting the rear locker as well. If it ever becomes available. I wish it had been an option from the beginning. I believe it was on the Touareg and at $500 when factory installed. I am facinated with the disengageable sway bars but do not think they are going to contribute greatly to off-road ability, not enough increased articulation. But, wait and see I guess.



    When I orderd my Cayenne Turbo, I was thinking about ordering the Advanced Off-Road package too. The rear lock diff. is a nice thing to have, even for street driving. Unfortunately there is no possibility (yet) to order it seperately from the detach. swaybars. Even worse: I've been told that a retrofit of the rear lock diff. isn't possible if I don't order the Advanced Offroad Package. Apparently there is more to it... This is NOT confirmed information, so maybe the guy who told me is wrong.
    I didn't order the Advanced Offroad Package because I was afraid the detachable swaybars may not work well and even put me in danger when driving fast on the street. I've been assured by various sources that they can't detach themselves, they have some kind of safety lock but I was still afraid and so I didn't order it. I drive mainly on the street, so the detachable swaybars aren't really needed. The rear lock diff. is a different story...

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Right, I'm with you RC about the locking rear differential. It could be a nice option if offered separately. I just checked the VW website. You can configure a Touareg with a locking rear for an extra $550.

    The disengageable sway bars look complicated and I am sure they are, especially the hydraulics and control system. When detached, hydraulic pressure is acting against a spring loaded system so that they would reconnect if hydraulic pressure failed. All the same, I would be concerned as well on a new system like this. It may work out great though. It is certainly an interesting concept.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    There is a very nice cut-away drawing and some text on the locking rear differential in the bookPorsche Cayenne, by Becker and Warter.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Disconnecting the sway bar is very common on Jeep Wranglers that do serious off-roading. It permits substantially more axle articulation. A number of aftermarket companies, such as Teraflex, make sway bar quick disconnects. They make it easy to disconnect your sway bar when you go wheeling, and reconnect when you're back on the road. On a stock Wrangler, the easiest and most effective thing you can do to improve the trail performance is to install a pair of sway bar q/d's.

    I used to have a Jeep Wrangler built for wheeling and I put sway bar q/d's as well as front and rear locking diffs (ARB air-lockers).

    You can to be very careful with front locking diffs. Steering ability is greatly diminished when the front is locked. It is also easy to blow an axle when you're locked in front, especially if only the front is locked. I have seen numerous rigs with Detroit automatic lockers in the front that have crashed when going around a bend on the road because the front locked and the car lost most steering ability. The standard ARB switch wiring will permit the front to be locked only if the rear is also locked.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Thanks for the input Eagle. I don't know if you noticed but I posted a photo of the Teraflex earlier in this thread. Again, I think the disengageable sway bars is a very interesting idea but I will still need to be convinced that the Porsche version is going to work effectively.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    I saw your photo of the Teraflex S/T sway bar system. It caught my interest because it's a new product from them, at least since I sold my Jeep a couple years ago. I had the old style q/d's.

    Here's a pic of my Jeep in the Rubicon. It's one of my favorite pics because of how it shows off the flex. I had 4" lift (Rubicon Express) and the sway bars were disconnected.



    I see pictures in magazines or in advertisements of some 4x4 with its wheels in the air as if to show how burly it is off-road, but to me it just shows lack of axle articulation.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Do you know someone with that Teraflex S/T sway bar system? The pic you posted was different from the one on their website. If so, how do they like it?

    If I were to get another Jeep (I am periodically tempted), I'd start with a Jeep Rubicon. It comes with Dana 44 axles front and rear, front and rear lockers, and a 4:1 transfer case. To get that kind of equipment with a factory warranty is good stuff! Add a suspension lift, 33" or bigger tires, a CV driveshaft, winch, beefier bumpers, etc and you have a nice trail rig.

    Of course, building a Jeep is half the fun.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Quote:
    I see pictures in magazines or in advertisements of some 4x4 with its wheels in the air as if to show how burly it is off-road, but to me it just shows lack of axle articulation.




    You are absolutely right. It's a cheap trick, heck, I've even done it myself, but those feet in the air photos really show just the opposite about off-road capabilities. With better axle articulation the tires would still be in contact with the ground where they could be contributing to your forward motion.

    The increased articulation granted by Porsche's system seems inadequate to me. I don't recall exactly what it is but it's only an inch or two at most. That wouldn't help much in, for example, your situation on the Rubicon shown above.

    I have no direct experience with the Teraflex system. I came across it when I was researching disengageable sway bars after I learned about Porsche's plans. They look like they would do the job though. It appears to be a very simple system.

    I like the Jeep Rubicon as well. A very cool car. You could do a lot with it factory stock or, as you say, it could also be an excellent starting point for a building project.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Do you take your Cayenne off-road much?

    I am a recent Cayenne purchaser. Placed the order last week on an S, should arrive in mid April. It's for my significant other. My other cars are a BMW X5 4.4 and a Porsche Boxster S.

    It seems a number of folks on this board either have both an X5 and a Cayenne, or traded in their X5 for a Cayenne.

    This seems like a good group of folks here.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Quote:
    This seems like a good group of folks here.




    Thanks Eagle, I appreciate that.

    We are getting more Cayenne owners here all the time. I think you will see the volume of Cayenne information increase over the next few months as more Rennteam members receive their Cayenne orders.

    I do take my Cayenne off-road and usually post photos here. See this thread: Big Bend Trip. I am going back to this place the 20th of next month. I also have a trip to Moab planned for early May. Don't get the idea I am going to be trying the stuff you did in your Jeep (BTW, is that a CJ7?) but I will have fun and do some moderate rockhopping. No bent sheetmetal for me if I can help it.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Cool pics from Big Bend! That sure looks like fun. I haven't been to Moab yet. My 4x4 club has been there a few times but I wasn't able to make it.

    Check out some more pics of my Jeep at My Jeep Page

    It is/was a '98 Jeep Wrangler, known among Jeepers as a "TJ" (just as the current 911 is a "996"). The previous generation Wrangler -- the one with square headlights -- is a "YJ", and then of course there's the iconic CJ.

    Your pics made me wanna go wheeling again.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    Quote:
    It is/was a '98 Jeep Wrangler, known among Jeepers as a "TJ"



    Shows how much I know about Jeeps! My first exposure to recreational off-roading was in a CJ-5. It belonged to my neighbor who was a surveyor (good car for that) and an off-road nut. He took me four wheeling and taught me how to use a high lift jack to get you off a "high center". Great stuff! The CJ-7 came out shortly after that and, as I recall, Jeep buffs poo-pooed the lengthened wheelbase as an unnecessary compromise.

    Re: Advanced off-road package/Disengable sway bars

    The TJ brought back the CJ look with the round headlights. A lot of people consider the CJ-5 the ultimate off-road Jeep. The swb is great on the trails, maybe not so good on the road. Not just the rollover issue, but a really harsh ride.

     
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