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    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    I uninstalled the Carnewal device, mainly to see how long it took to do..  Then, out of interest, I drove the car for an hour or so while it was back to stock.

    Then I re-installed the device and drove the car again... it only took a few minutes to confirm that there is a definite improvement in PSE sound with it fitted..kiss

     

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    Good to get the confirmation that it does make a difference kiss


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    Just ordered it


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    Gnil:

    Just ordered it

    Cool. I am ready to order, based on your feedback Smiley


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE.


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    Gnil & Bluelines - I'm sure you won't regret it... looking forward to hearing your impressions..kiss

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    Gnil, have you fitted the Carnewal remote device yet?? 

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    I did not have the time yet, unexpected work today .......mail

    I will tomorrow .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    So..I did the modification....and tested the result driving in town....and could not hear any difference to before, actually I could not hear much difference between open and closed 

    First I put it down to the fact that I could not rev more then about 3500

    Then I actually  went to the back of the car to look ( listen) more to what is going on and found out that my left flaps have been actually always open !! As they do not close .  I can clearly hear the flaps opening on the right  side + feel the difference in the exhaust pressure .  On the other side , nothing happens....... I always have an equal exhaust pressure on both tubes.

    So.. that's why I also do not hear a significant improvement, as I have been used to actually drive with on side always open ( I did think that my exhaust got better with time ..smiley )  Now I know it was due to a problem. 

    And as I usually always press the PSE button on when I turn on my car.... I did not  notice before that silent...was not silent anymore Smiley

     


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    Argh! All this excitement and suspense waiting for the result... and then your exhaust is b-r-o-k-e-n! mail indecision It is like a bad ending to a Hollywood movie indecision

    Did you check the flaps with or without Gert's magic device?


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    Gnil:

    So..I did the modification....and tested the result driving in town....and could not hear any difference to before, actually I could not hear much difference between open and closed 

    First I put it down to the fact that I could not rev more then about 3500

    Then I actually  went to the back of the car to look ( listen) more to what is going on and found out that my left flaps have been actually always open !! As they do not close .  I can clearly hear the flaps opening on the right  side + feel the difference in the exhaust pressure .  On the other side , nothing happens....... I always have an equal exhaust pressure on both tubes.

    So.. that's why I also do not hear a significant improvement, as I have been used to actually drive with on side always open ( I did think that my exhaust got better with time ..smiley )  Now I know it was due to a problem. 

    And as I usually always press the PSE button on when I turn on my car.... I did not  notice before that silent...was not silent anymore Smiley

     


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    Gert actually warned me to open & close the flaps every so often (via the remote buttons) to prevent them from becoming stuck - even if I wanted the sound on loud all the time!

    Actually I'm surprised you didn't check the gas pressures earlier.. yes  Is the outside right pipe gas pressure greater with the device fitted?

     

     

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    Yep, even when doing the 997.1 PSE always ON mod, it's the same story ... it's good to un-do it once in a while ... to make sure it continues to operate like stock ... and hasn't become stuck in position.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    easy_rider911:

    Yep, even when doing the 997.1 PSE always ON mod, it's the same story ... it's good to un-do it once in a while ... to make sure it continues to operate like stock ... and hasn't become stuck in position.

    You're right Easy, although I never did and, when I traded mine in for the GTS, the mod was still intact!  I told the OPC sales person about it and he responded that he really liked the sound as it was!! Smiley

    BTW - The Carnewal remote device also works for the 997.1.   I'm not sure, but I believe you chose the 'tube' version of the mod'.  If so, it would be a simpler process to turn it on and off with the remote rather than having to reconnect and then disconnect the tube again physically? - Just a thought... for such a small outlay..Smiley  

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    Thanks - actually I un-did the mod some time back ... I'm happier with it as stock ... around town, I usually drive with Sport mode on anyway so, that way, I get the PSE sound ... the only time I don't use Sport mode is on long, high speed journeys ... which is also when I don't want PSE on ... the continuous noise is not what I like ... I like the PSE sound when accelerating and decelerating ... not at constant revs.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    I tried the modification today again.

    I disconnected the electrical connector on the upper right side of the engine which is supposed to control the flaps via vacuum tubes. There is a similar connector on the lower right side, but it is for the valve in the air box.

    1331568589788IMG_0635.jpg

    I turned the ignition key and the engine came to life with the usual flat six growl. I stepped out of the car and checked that there was pressure behind all four exhaust tips. I also checked that the exhaust button in the center console did not have any impact on the sound. Conclusion, the modification is in effect and the flaps are fully open.

    I lowered the windows and drove off. The sound was louder, especially when the RPM reached 4000 and the up to the redline. There were hints at pops in the exhaust when shifting down. More defined than before. So clearly the modification works, but... it is not the same big difference as it was on the 997.1 PSE. The really loud pops on the overrun are not there, it is more a rumbling and muted sound.

    I suspect this is all due to the infamous center silencer which restricts the sound before it hits the main silencers on the left and right side. Speculation, replace the center silencer with straight pipes (a.k.a. x-pipe) and the 997.2 PSE should sound like the 997.1 PSE. Together with the modification or Gert's device the exhaust sound should then be real nice!

    Check this video for comparison  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUTmnOvuW6I

    The consensus on other forums, where owners have installed the x-pipe, is that the center silencer is the culprit for the more muted and high pitched sound from the 997 DFI engines.

    The center silencer also appears to be highly restrictive in the air flow. Shark Werks did a dyno run with and without the center silencer and the difference was 12 HP 

    This is how it looks inside:

    dyno32.jpg

    The replacement pipes are straight leading the exhaust from one side to the other, rather the the stock U-shape which leads the exhaust back to the same side. It is this U-shape which is supposed to be restrictive.

    If all this is true, what is the purpose of the center silencer? To make the DFI sound more muted and high pitched? To restrict the power?


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    I asked many questions of Gert before ordering his device.  One query was to do with the centre silencer - here is his reply by email...

    Hi John,

    The center silencer of the PSE is internally almost a bypass, so replacing a PSE center muffler with a complete bypass will not give you a lot of difference.

    Even if you don’t have the cut out, our PSE remote avoids that you have to push the PSE button every time you start the car and allows you to keep the valves open.

    With the original configuration, the default setting of the valves is in the closed position so the DME can never adjust to the open position.

    Thanks,

    Gert.
     

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    If it has almost no function why does the car then have it? enlightened

    Well, there is only one way to find out... indecision


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    John H:

    I asked many questions of Gert before ordering his device.  One query was to do with the centre silencer - here is his reply by email..

    The center silencer of the PSE is internally almost a bypass, so replacing a PSE center muffler with a complete bypass will not give you a lot of difference.

     

    Replacement of the centre silencer with the SharkWerks muffler bypass (i.e. straight-through X-pipes) is exactly what I did on my GTS and I can tell you from personal experience that it makes a dramatic and positive difference - methinks Gert may have been speaking to his own book.  The fact that the PSE button still works is a good thing, as there may be times (few and far between of course) when you may not want to activate the sport exhaust - and, frankly, the day I get too lazy to press a button when I start my car is probably the day I should trade my 911 in for a nice comfortable SUV.  Smiley


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    PureBlue:

    Replacement of the centre silencer with the SharkWerks muffler bypass (i.e. straight-through X-pipes) is exactly what I did on my GTS and I can tell you from personal experience that it makes a dramatic and positive difference - methinks Gert may have been speaking to his own book.  The fact that the PSE button still works is a good thing, as there may be times (few and far between of course) when you may not want to activate the sport exhaust - and, frankly, the day I get too lazy to press a button when I start my car is probably the day I should trade my 911 in for a nice comfortable SUV.  Smiley

     Pureblue, your post just convice me to buy the SW muffler bypass. Tomorrow I will place the order. I like very much my PSE with Gert device, but I also find there is space for improvement, SW bypass might the answer for it Smiley I hope so Smiley

    J.Seven


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    @PureBlue Thanks for confirming! wink Great to hear the personal positive experience you have.

    @J.Seven I'll race you to that order smiley


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    I like this thread ........Motor passion  is getting hot blush  

    I did not have the proper time to undo the Gert mod to check if my PSE is realy stuck on open, but it suspect it is.

    That's why I am not impressed by the mod...as I had it naturally since many month ! I did indeed think my PSE just got better with time ( now 65'000 km ) .

    You guys realy tempt me with the x-pipe blush....   The youtube video posted by Bluelines show very well that taking out the center muffler does make a big difference  in sound.

    Gert did either not try it, or just speaking for his own book.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    Go for it, guys - you won't be disappointed (and if you are, you can always put the centre silencer back on).  Smiley

    Just a word of caution so that you know what to expect: the sound is indeed a richer, lower, grumbling one - rather than the more high-pitched tone of the stock 997.2 PSE (in my original post, I described it as "more growl, less howl").  In this regard, the sound is more like that of the 997.1 (makes me think of my old 997.1 C2S) and less like the 997.2.

    HOWEVER, it does not produce the same popping, crackling sound on the overrun as I used to get on my 997.1 - so if this is specifically what you're after, be aware that you may be disappointed.


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    bluelines:

    I tried the modification today again.

    I disconnected the electrical connector on the upper right side of the engine which is supposed to control the flaps via vacuum tubes. There is a similar connector on the lower right side, but it is for the valve in the air box.

    1331568589788IMG_0635.jpg

    I turned the ignition key and the engine came to life with the usual flat six growl. I stepped out of the car and checked that there was pressure behind all four exhaust tips. I also checked that the exhaust button in the center console did not have any impact on the sound. Conclusion, the modification is in effect and the flaps are fully open.

    I lowered the windows and drove off. The sound was louder, especially when the RPM reached 4000 and the up to the redline. There were hints at pops in the exhaust when shifting down. More defined than before. So clearly the modification works, but... it is not the same big difference as it was on the 997.1 PSE. The really loud pops on the overrun are not there, it is more a rumbling and muted sound.

    I suspect this is all due to the infamous center silencer which restricts the sound before it hits the main silencers on the left and right side. Speculation, replace the center silencer with straight pipes (a.k.a. x-pipe) and the 997.2 PSE should sound like the 997.1 PSE. Together with the modification or Gert's device the exhaust sound should then be real nice!

    Check this video for comparison  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUTmnOvuW6I

     

    The consensus on other forums, where owners have installed the x-pipe, is that the center silencer is the culprit for the more muted and high pitched sound from the 997 DFI engines.

    The center silencer also appears to be highly restrictive in the air flow. Shark Werks did a dyno run with and without the center silencer and the difference was 12 HP 

    This is how it looks inside:

    dyno32.jpg

    The replacement pipes are straight leading the exhaust from one side to the other, rather the the stock U-shape which leads the exhaust back to the same side. It is this U-shape which is supposed to be restrictive.

    If all this is true, what is the purpose of the center silencer? To make the DFI sound more muted and high pitched? To restrict the power?

    When you disconnect the connector, the flaps actually stay closed all the time. Porsche has changed this, it is exactly the other way around as in the 997.1. So I can't see how the exhaust can get louder when you do that.

    The straight pipes could provide a slight power increase (minimal though, more in the 5-8 hp range rather than 12 hp, incl. a slight change of the torque curve) but the sound changes to a lower tone, making the 911 actually not sound like a 911 anymore in my opinion. It is the typical sound you get from many aftermarket sport exhausts. Some people like it, I prefer the more original 911 "saw" sound. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    Guys - PureBlue reported on his installation of the SharkWerks muffler bypass (i.e. straight-through X-pipes) in his original GTS collection thread.  The potential pitfall of this system voiding the warranty was also discussed and considered in that thread.

    As far as Gert "speaking to his own book" is concerned, that is just plain lunacy. Smiley  His company, Carnewal, have a world-wide reputation for top class advice, products and service!  In fact, if you bother to visit his site, you will see the vast range of products he supplies - including the X-pipes..!!  I have no gripe with PB, or anyone else, taking a chance on warranty issues if what you want is an after-market sound.  I wasn't prepared to take that risk and found what I wanted with the Remote Device.  The only contradiction to it providing improved sound quality is from Gnil, whose exhaust turns out to be faulty anyway..Smiley

    I have no reason whatsoever to discourage the fitting of X-pipes if that's what you want and you've considered the impact on warranties.  RC went into great detail on this point in the other thread.

    I do however object to those who are suggesting that Gert may be purposefully misleading in his remarks..

    Why should he..?  The X-pipes are over £1,200 more expensive than the Remote!  If he was 'on the make' he would surely have been pressing to go down that route..

    Bottom line is... Gert is one of the 'good guys' and I am very happy with the authentic sound his product gives me - without any possible warranty issues....Smiley

    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    RC:
     

    When you disconnect the connector, the flaps actually stay closed all the time. Porsche has changed this, it is exactly the other way around as in the 997.1. So I can't see how the exhaust can get louder when you do that.

    Where did you get that information from? Smiley 

    It contradicts what (so far) everyone else has said on any forum I have searched through. Many 997.2 PSE owners have done the modification this way and all report a louder sound.

    I did check that there was exhaust pressure behind all four tips after the disconnection, that must surely mean the flaps are open?

     


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    Gnil:

    I like this thread ........Motor passion  is getting hot blush  

    Smiley


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    bluelines:
    RC:
     

    When you disconnect the connector, the flaps actually stay closed all the time. Porsche has changed this, it is exactly the other way around as in the 997.1. So I can't see how the exhaust can get louder when you do that.

    Where did you get that information from? Smiley

    It contradicts what (so far) everyone else has said on any forum I have searched through. Many 997.2 PSE owners have done the modification this way and all report a louder sound.

    I did check that there was exhaust pressure behind all four tips after the disconnection, that must surely mean the flaps are open?

    One other thing. If the default position is closed on the 997.2, as opposed to open on the 997.1, why is the PSE momentarily loud when the engine is started? This rather points to the flaps being open until the vacuum pump has reduced the pressure in the lines and the flaps gets closed.


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    John H:

    Guys - PureBlue reported on his installation of the SharkWerks muffler bypass (i.e. straight-through X-pipes) in his original GTS collection thread.  The potential pitfall of this system voiding the warranty was also discussed and considered in that thread.

    ...but connecting a device which interferes with the electronics does not void the warranty? [tongue-in-cheek] Smiley


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    John H:

    I do however object to those who are suggesting that Gert may be purposefully misleading in his remarks..

    Bottom line is... Gert is one of the 'good guys' 

    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

    I am sure he is, but my remark about him having maybe not tried it or.... came after you quoted him :

     replacing a PSE center muffler with a complete bypass will not give you a lot of difference.


    If you listen to the youtube video that Bluelines has posted, you can clearly hear that the x-pipe does make a big difference. So I do not understand why he says it does not Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Much improved PSE exhaust sound on my GTS..

    bluelines:
    John H:

    Guys - PureBlue reported on his installation of the SharkWerks muffler bypass (i.e. straight-through X-pipes) in his original GTS collection thread.  The potential pitfall of this system voiding the warranty was also discussed and considered in that thread.

    ...but connecting a device which interferes with the electronics does not void the warranty? [tongue-in-cheek] Smiley

    It does, but you do not get found out, as you can take it off in 2 minutes, without any trace Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


     
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