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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    nberry:

    I just read that Porsche has 10,000 confirmed orders for the Taycan S. That's not bad considering its the beginning of the EV cycle for Porsche and the cost of the car.

    I suspect the smaller Taycan will get more play.


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    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.

     

    Not necessarily true.  There are plenty of consumers globally where the delta in price between the Taycan 4S and Taycan Turbo S is considered almost inconsequential.  A couple of weeks ago, there was a story about a McLaren totaled by an errant truck tire.  The McLaren was owned by a professional baseball player, who earns over $17 million annually.  A $300,000 car to him is less of a financial impact than the median priced car to even an upper percentile affluent family.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Porsche Taycan Turbo Range Much Higher Than EPA In Independent Test

    Porsche commissioned the test before knowing what the EPA rating would be.

    Christopher Smith

    You may have heard that the EPA’s official range rating for the Porsche Taycan Turbo is a bit on the low side. In fact, it came back at just 201 miles, which is far cry from the Euro-spec WLTP rating of 279 miles. It even dips below conservative estimates for the U.S. that placed the EV super sedan in the 212 to 250-mile range. The plot thickens even further, as Porsche actually commissioned an independent test to gauge the Taycan Turbo’s real-world range. As you might expect, those figures are considerably higher than the EPA rating.

    The EPA's Taycan Turbo Evaluation:

    If that sounds retaliatory and a bit suspicious on Porsche’s part, you’re not alone. Jalopnik first reported on this subject, pointing to statistics from California-based AMCI Testing that show ranges more in line with Europe’s WLTP 279-mile figure. We had more questions than answers, so we dialed up Porsche and learned that this testing wasn’t retaliatory at all. In fact, it was conducted long before there was even a whiff of EPA results for the Taycan.

    We actually started this process months ago, specifically because in Europe the WLTP test uses a different methodology altogether from EPA.

    “We had AMCI do testing beforehand,” explained Porsche Spokesperson Calvin Kim. “We do a lot of testing with third-party vendors for various things such as performance figures, fuel economy, interior noise, all kinds of different metrics. We actually started this process months ago, specifically because in Europe the WLTP test uses a different methodology altogether from EPA. We didn’t know exactly what the car was going to get, and we don’t like being in that position so we commissioned a company to get that number for us to better understand real-world performance.”

     

    Gallery: 2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo

     

    2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo

    27 Photos

     

    2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo

    According to AMCI Testing’s website, the Taycan Turbo achieved 288 miles on a single charge in city driving, and 275 miles in a combination of city and highway driving. The testing process involved driving a Taycan Turbo over two specific routes during weekdays at the same time of day, with the car set to Normal mode and accessory loads consistent throughout the drives on the city/highway loop. Speeds were “precisely coordinated” to match the speed of traffic flow up to the legal limit, and even 5 mph over the limit on highways. The city test loop saw the Taycan Turbo in Range mode with the HVAC system turned off and speeds coordinated with traffic.

    So what gives with the difference between the EPA’s rating and those from AMCI and WLTP? The folks at MyEV.com explain the EPA testing procedure, which doesn’t actually take vehicles out on the road. Testing is federally mandated and conducted in a lab on a chassis dyno where various real-world conditions are simulated for city and highway driving. It’s a vastly different process, but laboratory testing can eliminate variables to provide a more accurate, apples-to-apples comparison between vehicles. 

    Contact information wasn’t readily available for AMCI, but we do have a message into the company asking for a comment on the results. According to its website, AMCI Testing has evaluated 4,000 cars and conducted 250,000 tests over the course of 30 years, and is monitored by the FTC. The website further states that none of its claims have been overturned.

    As for Porsche, the automaker had no comment on the EPA results, aside from acknowledging it will be the figure printed on the Taycan Turbo’s window sticker. Beyond that, Porsche is confident in the results of AMCI Testing's evaluation.

    Source: Porsche, AMCI Testing via Jalopnik


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    The window sticker will show 201 miles for highway driving in the US.


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    nberry:

    The window sticker will show 201 miles for highway driving in the US.

    Again, so what?   How many people drive 200 miles on any given day?   Since most Porsches reside in metropolitan areas with established charging networks, even topping off midday is less of an issue.  There are five Electrify America charging centers within ten miles from where I now sit.   


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    you have to be closed to a taxi driver schedule to handle 200 miles a day and above.


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    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    It is best to think of this as a battery not a gas tank. Which it is. It should be used between 20% and 75% for maximum battery life.  Draining it much below 10% or charging past 90% should be avoided. Having lots of range or battery capacity makes that sweet spot that much bigger. This is also when it charges the quickest.  Do they say much about home charging this Porsche?  I think I heard the new Mustand EV can not be charged at home. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    It is best to think of this as a battery not a gas tank. Which it is. It should be used between 20% and 75% for maximum battery life.  Draining it much below 10% or charging past 90% should be avoided. Having lots of range or battery capacity makes that sweet spot that much bigger. This is also when it charges the quickest.  Do they say much about home charging this Porsche?  I think I heard the new Mustand EV can not be charged at home. 

    Keep spreading the fake news.  
     

    The Ford Mustang Mach E can’t be charged at home myth arose from a so-called researcher contacted sales people at nearby Ford dealerships to inquire about details on the new BEV.  The researcher then reported that few of Ford’s sales people knew much about the Mach E and one even stated the product couldn’t be charged at home. 
     

    If you, instead of spreading FUD about Ford’s BEV spent the time conducting an Internet search, you would have located this Inside EVs article from late November complimenting Ford for doing its homework on its charging strategy, which includes home charging.  https://insideevs.com/news/376886/ford-charging-solutions-next-gen-bevs/. That search shouldn’t be too difficult for a software development person, unless Tesla blocked it from its browser during your near autonomous drive home for lunch.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    I trust you read the part were I indicated that I thought I heard that. Thanks for confirming there was a story like that. It certainly makes more sense that home charging is available.  Your all our attack on my fake news is funny. Did you read the other part as well?  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    CGX car nut:
    nberry:

    The window sticker will show 201 miles for highway driving in the US.

    Again, so what?   How many people drive 200 miles on any given day?   Since most Porsches reside in metropolitan areas with established charging networks, even topping off midday is less of an issue.  There are five Electrify America charging centers within ten miles from where I now sit.   

    You’re missing the point. It’s about convenience and perception. That’s why Porsche was concerned enough to have independent audit of the battery charge. Smiley


    --

    Having everything is nice, but it's even nicer to make sure everything you've got is actually worth having.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    nberry:
    CGX car nut:
    nberry:

    The window sticker will show 201 miles for highway driving in the US.

    Again, so what?   How many people drive 200 miles on any given day?   Since most Porsches reside in metropolitan areas with established charging networks, even topping off midday is less of an issue.  There are five Electrify America charging centers within ten miles from where I now sit.   

    You’re missing the point. It’s about convenience and perception. That’s why Porsche was concerned enough to have independent audit of the battery charge. Smiley

    Are you insinuating that Porsche had no idea of the range of the Taycan using the various testing regimes before the BEV was released?  That’s very doubtful.  
     

    However, it appears that Volkswagen Group found a potential flaw in the EPA testing regime but to preserve political decorum has failed to call it as such.  Both the Audi and the Porsche apply recuperation when the brakes are applied.  This differs from Tesla’s approach of applying regeneration when lifting off the accelerator; the other two coast.  Real world results could differ.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Well, a short real life comparison here (Autobahn, full throttle whenever possible): 

    Tesla S P100D - 170 km range

    Huracan Performante - 350 km range

    GLC 63 S AMG - 280 km range

    Well... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    RC:

    Well, a short real life comparison here (Autobahn, full throttle whenever possible): 

    Tesla S P100D - 170 km range

    Huracan Performante - 350 km range

    GLC 63 S AMG - 280 km range

    Well... 

    This implies the Tesla needed a 45 minute charge for every 45 to 60 minutes of driving time.  The other two were back on the road within minutes as an average petrol dispenser refuels at approximately 40 liters per minute.  Using the often used rubric of the Tesla faithful, I refueled my car a couple of days ago at nearly 30,000 km/hr.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    I don't really care (much) about range but just imagine I would drive with the Tesla to Austria (like I do often on weekends, especially in winter time) and would need to fully charge it at least twice(!) to get to my destination and back home. With the cars, one fuel tank would be (very likely) sufficient and fueling up takes around 5-7 minutes (incl. payment) at max.

    For me, a Tesla makes sense driving in the city and/or driving it (relatively) slow. Driving it for fun makes zero sense. Unless driving slow(ly) is what you want. I do not drive full throttle all the time but I drive as fast as possible (traffic, safety, etc.) when I am not tired and/or distracted talking to passengers.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    RC:

    Well, a short real life comparison here (Autobahn, full throttle whenever possible): 

    Tesla S P100D - 170 km range

    Huracan Performante - 350 km range

    GLC 63 S AMG - 280 km range

    Well... 

    Real life with the BMW 840d:

    Autobahn, 124km/h average speed, Munich-Venice-Munich = 1040km without refueling

    I wanted to test what’s possible, boring drive, but impressive fuel consumption (5,6l/100km)


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    That’s very impressive.  Last weekend was the first time I was ever passed by a Tesla on a rural Interstate.  The Model 3 was traveling in excess of 90 mph. A bit brave or foolhardy when the state police had started the holiday travel enforcement then too.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Itsme:
    RC:

    Well, a short real life comparison here (Autobahn, full throttle whenever possible): 

    Tesla S P100D - 170 km range

    Huracan Performante - 350 km range

    GLC 63 S AMG - 280 km range

    Well... 

    Real life with the BMW 840d:

    Autobahn, 124km/h average speed, Munich-Venice-Munich = 1040km without refueling

    I wanted to test what’s possible, boring drive, but impressive fuel consumption (5,6l/100km)

    Did a similar thing with my previous 991.1 Turbo S...120 kph at max(!), very light throttle foot, 6.9 l / 100 km.

    Diesel engines are very efficient, one reason it is insane that they are basically "dead", especially in Germany. Smiley

    Drove with my wife's X3 35d (313 hp) full throttle on the Autobahn, this thing never consumed more than 10 l / 100 km Diesel. Highly impressive. The Cayenne S Diesel we had did 16-17 l / 100 km under the same conditions. Still OK.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Itsme:
    RC:

    Well, a short real life comparison here (Autobahn, full throttle whenever possible): 

    Tesla S P100D - 170 km range

    Huracan Performante - 350 km range

    GLC 63 S AMG - 280 km range

    Well... 

    Real life with the BMW 840d:

    Autobahn, 124km/h average speed, Munich-Venice-Munich = 1040km without refueling

    I wanted to test what’s possible, boring drive, but impressive fuel consumption (5,6l/100km)

     

    One time I had a Audi A8 diesel rental in Germany, I drove almost ~1300km on a tank Smiley


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    My long distance drives are legendary. I relish super fast planned pit stops.  However at reasonable highway speeds the tesla will do 280 miles no problem. Recharge all that in about 18 minutes at a l3 supercharger. That is ten minutes longer than a traditional fuel stop. The savings for that 10 minutes equal around $250 per hour for my wait time. Not a bad trade especially given that 98% of my charging will be at home which takes zero time out of my schedule.  So for me in the US it covers my local and long distance driving. Given the speed and agility of the model3 it more than takes care of being my fun car. The turbo feels old and slow. Far from fun.  No kidding. After all those Porsche’s the model3 is crazy fun. I love it. It is silent and stealthy and a blast to point and shoot. I have nothing but respect for all of you and I stand to make no friends here by saying this. I get that. Just drive one!  I’m certain it is the same for people who drive the Taycan for the first time as well. Something about the electric power never gets old. At least for me. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    wink

    You find the Model 3 perfect for your needs and I find my e-Tron perfect for my needs.

    That's the beauty of free market, no one forces one choice over another, everyone has their own choice.

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:
     Something about the electric power never gets old. At least for me. 

    This reminds me of the many years I was commuting to work by bicycle.  Many saw me doing this, and commended me for doing my part for the environment.  Had they actually asked me, I would have told them that my cycling had zero to do with the environment and everything to do with the pure enjoyment of riding.  But they never asked, just assumed...Smiley


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    F857348C-1C34-4B2B-9011-F689917C7D2C.png


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    1.29g acceleration, I believe that’s the highest any Porsche road car can do.

    BTW this is from David Donohue, the ex PCNA 981 concierge. 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Whoopsy:

    1.29g acceleration, I believe that’s the highest any Porsche road car can do.

    BTW this is from David Donohue, the ex PCNA 981 concierge. 

     

    I don't remember anything over 1.0g from pressing the gas pedal in my 918.


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Just finished my drive from Vancouver to Palm Springs. Day one was after work and through heavy traffic, so didn't really make much time, though consumption was super low.

    Next morning was a 923 mile drive  for 12.27 h at an average speed of 74 mph using 26.8 mpg. I did refuel once, but to be honest my bladder couldn't last much longer. Only a diesel can do that, in this case my old Mercedes ML. To be fair the old goat is not the fastest but once it moves, not too bad.

    For Europeans, 1500 km, average speed over 12-1/2 hours 120 km/h and consumption was 8,7 L.

     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Whoopsy:

    1.29g acceleration, I believe that’s the highest any Porsche road car can do.

    BTW this is from David Donohue, the ex PCNA 981 concierge. 

     

    on street tires?no


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Whoopsy:

    1.29g acceleration, I believe that’s the highest any Porsche road car can do.

    BTW this is from David Donohue, the ex PCNA 981 concierge. 

    I did nearly the same (1.27g) in a 991.2 Turbo (non-S) on street tires with launch control at Nordschleife just after entrance gate (didn't realize it's forbidden).  Nick - your Exclusive series Turbo should be able to equal or beat the Taycan:

    991tt g-forces.JPG


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    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    W8MM:
    Whoopsy:

    1.29g acceleration, I believe that’s the highest any Porsche road car can do.

    BTW this is from David Donohue, the ex PCNA 981 concierge. 

     

    I don't remember anything over 1.0g from pressing the gas pedal in my 918.

     

    Don't quite have the screen shot handy, but on Launch Control a 918 will do 1.24g.

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Carlos from Spain:
    Whoopsy:

    1.29g acceleration, I believe that’s the highest any Porsche road car can do.

    BTW this is from David Donohue, the ex PCNA 981 concierge. 

     

    on street tires?no


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

     

    Of course street tires, this is Porsche we talking about, they don't need to use trick out stuff. Production car and production tires.


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Grant:
    Whoopsy:

    1.29g acceleration, I believe that’s the highest any Porsche road car can do.

    BTW this is from David Donohue, the ex PCNA 981 concierge. 

    I did nearly the same (1.27g) in a 991.2 Turbo (non-S) on street tires with launch control at Nordschleife just after entrance gate (didn't realize it's forbidden).  Nick - your Exclusive series Turbo should be able to equal or beat the Taycan:

     


    --

     

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    Best I got from the Exclusive is a 1.25g, slightly better than the 918. From memory The GT2RS will do a 1.22g. Panamera Turbo S did a 1.22g also. My old Cayenne Turbo S was at 1.10g or something.

    How to get there was vastly different.

    The 918 just goes. No drama. The 911s does the squat then explodes out. The Panamera have this pronounced pause, when I let go of the brake pedal, the whole car tilt backwards, paused a slight fraction of a second then boom it's gone. I have to say, the most violent launch is the Panamera, the g meter doesn't tell the whole picture. 

    In the 918 and same with the GT2RS, the g pressure stays like forever. It doesn't let off, figuratively speaking. The GT2RS is the most amazing of them all. Lighter than 918 so it is still accelerating strong even at 250 and above. Once I did a launch control on the autobahn, no cars around so I was at a compete stop in the middle of the highway. I was pinned to the seat al the way to most of 7th gear. 


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Acceleration is a powerful drug. Keep in mind that electric motors kind of rule this domain (for which some cars have been accused of being a one trick pony). There are also plenty of cheaper cars on drag strips which can do this. Also I would hope a Porsche can turn corners exceptionally well. That is all about tires and suspension while the low center of gravity hands you a bonus.  For mere mortals who are not able or even allowed to buy the cars you mention there are, thankfully, fun alternatives.  For the money the Porsche does very well. Time will tell if it remains as competitive in the EV sports car world as in the ice sports car world. No reason why they should not. 
    I do think that these are the numbers Porsche and the public expected else it would have gone not so well. Consumption is still a bit high. 


     
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