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    Re: Tesla

    Buddy you aren't reading what I wrote again.

    I read Mike's reply, makes perfect sense if one is only looking for cars from their own local dealer. But it doesn't for the USA. in your country there is no restriction saying you can only buy cars from your home state, you can always call upset a dealer in Maine or Wyoming or whatever and look for cars. Last I check, there are 189 Porsche dealers in the USA, so what if that one local dealer you are hell bend on sourcing a car from won't give you? There are another 188 dealers that you can call and check. if there is a will there is a way. Not all 189 dealers are going to sell out their allocations right away, if you call early enough, you can secure yourself a car, before someone else called and took that spot. That's how those people on Rennlist get their dream cars, they put in the effort to call around, early.

    The situation with the 935 is very much different than your situation. You can source a car from 189 different dealers, the 935 only sells through ONE. Porsche Motorsport. 

    And the part about you being a lifelong customer. Customer of what, and from whom?

    You aren't a customer of Porsche, you are a customer of your dealer. Dealers are the customers of Porsche as they buy cars direct from Porsche and then sell them to you. if you Arne't buying cars from your dealer you aren't their customers.

    If you mean about servicing your cars with the same dealer for a long time, then again, how often do you visit them and pay them for service? After deducting operating costs, the dealer aren't making much off you, and in the business sense, you aren't a great client that deserves to jump the order queue. Another guy that buys a new car or used car off the floor is going to give the dealer a bigger profit in that one transaction than all the years you been paying them for service. Not to mention, purchasing a new car from the dealership means helping to fulfill their quota with Porsche, and if they hit their sales target, they get more allocations for harder to find cars. 

    You have to be realistic about your situation. If you aren't helping them get more cars, why should they let you buy one of the harder to locate cars?


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    Re: Tesla

    I think the GT hype is over anyway and it will depreciate maybe a bit slower than standard 992 but still  - once people realize it will be just another model in the lineup. Here I know a few people who passed both on GT3 and on their touring allocation including ourselves......


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Buddy you aren't reading what I wrote again.

    I read Mike's reply, makes perfect sense if one is only looking for cars from their own local dealer. But it doesn't for the USA. in your country there is no restriction saying you can only buy cars from your home state, you can always call upset a dealer in Maine or Wyoming or whatever and look for cars. Last I check, there are 189 Porsche dealers in the USA, so what if that one local dealer you are hell bend on sourcing a car from won't give you? There are another 188 dealers that you can call and check. if there is a will there is a way. Not all 189 dealers are going to sell out their allocations right away, if you call early enough, you can secure yourself a car, before someone else called and took that spot. That's how those people on Rennlist get their dream cars, they put in the effort to call around, early.

    The situation with the 935 is very much different than your situation. You can source a car from 189 different dealers, the 935 only sells through ONE. Porsche Motorsport. 

    And the part about you being a lifelong customer. Customer of what, and from whom?

    You aren't a customer of Porsche, you are a customer of your dealer. Dealers are the customers of Porsche as they buy cars direct from Porsche and then sell them to you. if you Arne't buying cars from your dealer you aren't their customers.

    If you mean about servicing your cars with the same dealer for a long time, then again, how often do you visit them and pay them for service? After deducting operating costs, the dealer aren't making much off you, and in the business sense, you aren't a great client that deserves to jump the order queue. Another guy that buys a new car or used car off the floor is going to give the dealer a bigger profit in that one transaction than all the years you been paying them for service. Not to mention, purchasing a new car from the dealership means helping to fulfill their quota with Porsche, and if they hit their sales target, they get more allocations for harder to find cars. 

    You have to be realistic about your situation. If you aren't helping them get more cars, why should they let you buy one of the harder to locate cars?

    Never take my cars to those clowns if not under warranty.  Nothing you say makes sense in terms of what I should have to go through. You bet I contacted other dealers on got on their lists as well. Lol.  You realize I never bought or had work done at any of these either and all of them have had waiting lists with people on them. Hard to even tell how much duplication there is on these lists.  It is what it is. The dealers use these to reward rich people who spend money like it does not matter.  Everything you describe goes way past being a cash buyer and waiting for ones turn.  Entitled people cause us patient line waiters to miss out as they pull out their checkbooks.  Since you are one of those I get that you don’t think waiting in line is worth it. 
    At any rate blaming me for not trying hard enough and defending this practice of making promises for 20 years is a bit of a stretch and your advice to shovel money at a dealer who sucks balls is silly. 


    Re: Tesla

    Again, where is this resentment towards those higher on the list because they are better customers than you? you think you deserve the car more than them for some reason? if someone has a bigger checkbook than you and me and they buy more Porsches from the dealer, I have no problem with the dealer giving them hard to allocate models before me, not going to be happy but I accept it as fair and hold no resentment towards they being able to spend more money on cars and be rewarded for it, good for them, nor do I think that they don't deserve the car as much as I, as long as they are not a scumbag flipper, who gets on the list for the car just to flip it for a profit instead of driving it. 


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    Again, where is this resentment towards those higher on the list because they are better customers than you? you think you deserve the car more than them for some reason? if someone has a bigger checkbook than you and me and they buy more Porsches from the dealer, I have no problem with the dealer giving them hard to allocate models before me, not going to be happy but I accept it as fair and hold no resentment towards they being able to spend more money on cars and be rewarded for it, good for them, nor do I think that they don't deserve the car as much as I, as long as they are not a scumbag flipper, who gets on the list for the car just to flip it for a profit instead of driving it. 

     

    As we can see from his replies, he 'thinks' differently. He believes being a fan of the brand is more important than actually doing business with the dealership and so he deserves getting an allocation more. Smiley

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Porsche 911 GT3 Buyer’s Guide...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    13B54112-8FC2-4DF2-8DD8-E3BC7D968DB5.jpeg

    801536A5-0371-4F6C-8D90-8CAA2A54CF93.jpeg

    2F2BE0E1-903C-4EC2-8512-3A1C97CF8A36.jpeg

    ED7273AA-3F3B-498B-9286-C0AB4301B1D2.jpeg

    3B35D673-DD03-4061-9789-7B04097431CD.jpeg

    0919A265-033D-4052-9D7F-A55EB0A402E7.jpeg

    56305297-4A8F-415B-8CC9-94CE04B3AA58.jpeg

    F55D4BA5-0B8E-48EA-BEB8-BA966FC0CC5F.jpeg

    ...enjoy your search for a GT3!  E0F26BDD-E91B-4EF4-964B-7C4204B9E420.gif

    Smiley

    The way to go may be to get a nice pre-owned GT3 from your local dealer - I assume they can source from the full network? Agree, reality is we are all viewed through a spectrum of dollars, and frequency of dollars.


    Re: Tesla

    That said, I have some sympathy for Leawood. For some of usnregular way plodders, who love the brand, but don’t necessarily buy a new Porsche every two years, it is very hard to get anywhere with the dealer, even if our “intentions” in terms of brand loyalty and the like are as good if not better than the bloke that churns a little more. Unfortunately, i don’t see a way around it when a product is in short supply, always open to suggestions though??


    Re: Tesla

    Another video placing the Model S Plaid at 0-60 mph in 2.3 seconds in the real world.  While extremely quick, this illustrates Musk’s continued hyperbole and attempts at manhood measuring on the diagonal.  https://insideevs.com/news/515597/how-quick-tesla-models-plaid/


    Re: Tesla

    How many Tesla owners do drags off the traffic lights? I have never even tried my launch control on the Cayenne turbo, what is the point? The Cayenne is so damn fast you don’t really have to prove it.

    BUT, while the Tesla may be incredibly fast  (and 0.1 s faster on sticky asphalt!!), does anyone buy a Tesla because it is fast? Really? 


    Re: Tesla

    996FourEss:

    How many Tesla owners do drags off the traffic lights? I have never even tried my launch control on the Cayenne turbo, what is the point? The Cayenne is so damn fast you don’t really have to prove it.

    BUT, while the Tesla may be incredibly fast  (and 0.1 s faster on sticky asphalt!!), does anyone buy a Tesla because it is fast? Really? 

    Fortunately this exact topic was covered by a trio of elite motoring journalists...  E0F26BDD-E91B-4EF4-964B-7C4204B9E420.gif

    Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqemJ4olut4

    Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Brilliant 


    Re: Tesla

    Who would have predicted that speed is all of a sudden not important. Any thing else ?  (Cost, tech, sound system, safety, self driving).  How about 0-100 in 4.3. Or 0-150 in 9.5.   Repeatedly. Looks like handling and ride for a big sedan is much improved. 
    Please make a list of all those treasured categories which no longer matter. 
    Of course they will matter the second someone other than Tesla exceeds them. 
    If you are forgetting this then this perhaps means you have given up on anyone catching Tesla. 


    Re: Tesla

    Speed is suddenly not important cause your, my, and everyone else's government says so. 

    Everywhere is clamping down on speed, look no farther than them raising ticket prices and such.

    And where do Police set up shop for speed traps? Straightaways. 

    They never set up in corners. 

    To enjoy speed going forward, it will be more about handling, going around corners faster.

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Speed is suddenly not important cause your, my, and everyone else's government says so. 

    Everywhere is clamping down on speed, look no farther than them raising ticket prices and such.

    And where do Police set up shop for speed traps? Straightaways. 

    They never set up in corners. 

    To enjoy speed going forward, it will be more about handling, going around corners faster.

     

    Priceless.  So speed limits are just now being enforced. Up until now it was not an issue. Mike V’s stock just shot up. 
    So the official talking point is now cornering speed.   If a 10 year old model S does not corner as good as your sports car you are in the clear and happy.  That pleases me. 
    Funniest thing is that even the little model 3 runs circles around my turbo in the corners with its crazy low center of gravity and perfect weight distribution.  
     

    To enjoy speed going forward when not in a Tesla - avoid racing Teslas in corners. 
     


    Re: Tesla

    Mate, not saying it is not important, but how many Tesla owners buy the cars for a sub 3 second time to 60. Maybe to say it another way, where i am in London, there are Taycans everywhere. How many Taycan guys have looked over at me in my GT4 and given a wave or a nod? Not one. But every single RS6 and older Porsche driver does. Point is about “ art of driving”. Or something….


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    Speed is suddenly not important cause your, my, and everyone else's government says so. 

    Everywhere is clamping down on speed, look no farther than them raising ticket prices and such.

    And where do Police set up shop for speed traps? Straightaways. 

    They never set up in corners. 

    To enjoy speed going forward, it will be more about handling, going around corners faster.

    Priceless.  So speed limits are just now being enforced. Up until now it was not an issue. Mike V’s stock just shot up. 
    So the official talking point is now cornering speed.   If a 10 year old model S does not corner as good as your sports car you are in the clear and happy.  That pleases me. 
    Funniest thing is that even the little model 3 runs circles around my turbo in the corners with its crazy low center of gravity and perfect weight distribution.  
     

    To enjoy speed going forward when not in a Tesla - avoid racing Teslas in corners. 
     

    "Tesla Model 3 loses control and falls 100ft off the side of a mountain, occupants walk away"

    (23 June 2021)

    Tesla crash off mountain
     
    Tesla’s number one priority when designing their cars is safety. This is evident in the data, with the five safest cars ever tested by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) being Tesla vehicles.

    That impressive safety record was on full display yesterday in California’s San Bernardino Mountains.

    Yesterday afternoon a Model 3 was travelling along Highway 18 between Snow Valley and Big Bear Dam. According to Mountain Reporter, the Model 3 lost control on a corner and veered off the side of the road.

    Since they were driving down a mountain, the car fell approximately 100ft before coming to rest in a vertical position in a heavily treed area.

    After the car was recovered from the mountainside, it was clear to see the massive amount of damage sustained to the front and rear of the car.

    Article Link

    ...artificial intelligence? Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Pretty impressive that no one was hurt. Thank god. 
    Im not certain what the comment is all about. Is this proof that Teslas can’t corner or that one person drove off a cliff?  


    Re: Tesla

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    Speed is suddenly not important cause your, my, and everyone else's government says so. 

    Everywhere is clamping down on speed, look no farther than them raising ticket prices and such.

    And where do Police set up shop for speed traps? Straightaways. 

    They never set up in corners. 

    To enjoy speed going forward, it will be more about handling, going around corners faster.

    Priceless.  So speed limits are just now being enforced. Up until now it was not an issue. Mike V’s stock just shot up. 
    So the official talking point is now cornering speed.   If a 10 year old model S does not corner as good as your sports car you are in the clear and happy.  That pleases me. 
    Funniest thing is that even the little model 3 runs circles around my turbo in the corners with its crazy low center of gravity and perfect weight distribution.  
     

    To enjoy speed going forward when not in a Tesla - avoid racing Teslas in corners. 
     

    "Tesla Model 3 loses control and falls 100ft off the side of a mountain, occupants walk away"

    (23 June 2021)

    Tesla crash off mountain
     
    Tesla’s number one priority when designing their cars is safety. This is evident in the data, with the five safest cars ever tested by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) being Tesla vehicles.

    That impressive safety record was on full display yesterday in California’s San Bernardino Mountains.

    Yesterday afternoon a Model 3 was travelling along Highway 18 between Snow Valley and Big Bear Dam. According to Mountain Reporter, the Model 3 lost control on a corner and veered off the side of the road.

    Since they were driving down a mountain, the car fell approximately 100ft before coming to rest in a vertical position in a heavily treed area.

    After the car was recovered from the mountainside, it was clear to see the massive amount of damage sustained to the front and rear of the car.

    Article Link

    ...artificial intelligence? Smiley

     

    I am guessing the Tesla didn't make the corner.....................Smiley


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    Re: Tesla

    impressive that it didn't catch fire. Battery and occupant protection worked pretty well

    next enhancement for auto-pilot; stop driver from driving off edge of cliff 


    Re: Tesla

     


    Re: Tesla

    In other Tesla news.

    Randy Probst took a Plaid car up and win the Exhibition class in a shorten Pike Peak hillclimb. Snow on the top section overnight means they had shortened the course so times aren't comparable with before.

    He told me car ran like a dream during testing all week. Unplugged's team did an awesome job making the car behave exactly how he likes it.

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    In other Tesla news.

    Randy Probst took a Plaid car up and win the Exhibition class in a shorten Pike Peak hillclimb. Snow on the top section overnight means they had shortened the course so times aren't comparable with before.

    He told me car ran like a dream during testing all week. Unplugged's team did an awesome job making the car behave exactly how he likes it.

     

    And yet it was beaten by a Bentley with a leaky turbo.


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:

    In other Tesla news.

    Randy Probst took a Plaid car up and win the Exhibition class in a shorten Pike Peak hillclimb. Snow on the top section overnight means they had shortened the course so times aren't comparable with before.

    He told me car ran like a dream during testing all week. Unplugged's team did an awesome job making the car behave exactly how he likes it.

     

    And yet it was beaten by a Bentley with a leaky turbo.

    And it beats a 718 GT4 Clubsport. 

    All these cars aren't in the same class. So no comparison.

    Only other comparable comparisons that can be made would be the other 2 Model 3s that entered, one ran a 8 min 16 and the other a 11 min 41

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    In other Tesla news.

    Randy Probst took a Plaid car up and win the Exhibition class in a shorten Pike Peak hillclimb. Snow on the top section overnight means they had shortened the course so times aren't comparable with before.

    He told me car ran like a dream during testing all week. Unplugged's team did an awesome job making the car behave exactly how he likes it.

     

     

    4:50 - Start

    https://livetiming.net/ppihc/


    Re: Tesla

    And he has a GPS map of where he is going, BIG advantage, as he doesn't have to remember what's coming up anymore. 

    I had a Garmin suctioned to the windshield when I was there. 


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    Re: Tesla

    I’ve heard his memory is starting to fail.  


    Re: Tesla

    Not much that will keep up with the Plaid. This is a hell of a great car. Not been a Tesla fan before, but this actually is so compelling that I had to order one. Hope it will arrive here in Europe early next year. I actually have to say that I love the new interior and they seems to have stepped up both on quality and that the performance doesn't wear off after repetitive accelerations and available at low state of charge as well.

    The flat hp-curve that is available all the way to it's top speed is just mind-boggling. Tesla just show that the 2-gear box in Taycan is just completely unnecessary.

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    I would guess that it will simply be a matter of Porsche increasing performance.  Price is really not important if you are Porsche.  Imagine how quick that Tesla would be with a two speed gearbox!  
    Congrats on your order!


    Re: Tesla

    Many interviews/onboards on the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb Youtube channel


    Re: Tesla

    donatello:

    Not much that will keep up with the Plaid. This is a hell of a great car. Not been a Tesla fan before, but this actually is so compelling that I had to order one. Hope it will arrive here in Europe early next year. I actually have to say that I love the new interior and they seems to have stepped up both on quality and that the performance doesn't wear off after repetitive accelerations and available at low state of charge as well.

    The flat hp-curve that is available all the way to it's top speed is just mind-boggling. Tesla just show that the 2-gear box in Taycan is just completely unnecessary.

    It does no such thing.  The rationale for Porsche using a two-speed transmission in the Taycan still remains valid.  It is a means of balancing acceleration with the ability to maintain high highway velocities with reduced energy consumption by reducing motor RPM.  

    Tesla increased its motor's RPM range by encasing the rotor in a carbon fiber sleeve.  That decision, however, decreases motor efficiency since the gap between the stator and the rotor is increased to compensate for the thickness of the cf sleeve.  This means the magnetic field must be made stronger to compensate, again increasing energy demands for the magnetic field of the stator. Tesla would also need to increase the strength of the permanent magnetics in the rotator by using more rare earth elements.  

    Porsche, and Audi, retain the advantage of mass customization that is lacking in the simplified, but problem plagued, Tesla assembly system.  With paint and trim options, virtually every Porsche Taycan is different from your neighbor's car.  The same can't be said about Tesla.  Even Audi has its exclusive paints and interior selections available for order before the introduction of the e-tron GT.  


     
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