Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ??? - Page1

Dec 31, 2006 2:52:22 PM

997man: Newbie; Loc: usa; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004

Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

I am looking to change the exahaust, air filter and headers for better sound and maybe a little performance boost. This has always been the first modification I have done to all my Harley motorcycles and it has always increased the driving pleasure. I have read that some people like the pse and some like aftermarket. Looking for some advise. I live in north east pennsylvania.

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Dec 31, 2006 3:26:07 PM

Silver_Surfer: Junior; Loc: Hampshire,UK; Posts: 73, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 16, 2006; Reply to: 997man

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

have a listen and drive a few to help you make your mind up, I have the PSE and modded so always on and it's just right for me

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Dec 31, 2006 5:42:37 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Silver_Surfer

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

Do the Porsche SE first. You keep your warrenty if done by dealer. See if it does the job for you; do aftermarket mods as a last resort.

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Jan 1, 2007 5:15:29 PM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6894, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: MMD

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

I think the PSE is overpriced although it has the advantage of being able to be turned on and off. For the same price you can get headers, sports cats, mufflers and an airbox upgrade - see fabspeed.com for an example or ImagineAuto.com. This will not void your warranty

and you will gain much more than an engineered sound run by an electric flap - not to mention weight loss and actual power gain. If you 'CHIP' the car you will void the warranty but I believe there are some chip tuning solutions which will include several 'maps' including the stock one.

Given your history of mods to your HD bikes the PSE somehow does not seem as satisfying and complete as my suggestion.

If someone has other information regarding the Porsche warranty please elaborate. Terms may be different in the US than elsewhere.

Drive right...

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Jan 1, 2007 5:39:47 PM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6894, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: MMD

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

Quote:
MMD said:
Do the Porsche SE first. You keep your warrenty if done by dealer. See if it does the job for you; do aftermarket mods as a last resort.

It sounds like he wants increased performance and driving pleasure. The PSE provides none of that unless more volume = pleasure (I'll buy some of that). Besides, how would he 'undo it' if he did not like it? I doubt Porsche would allow a free trial period. You also imply that other solutions void the warranty, and worse, you make it sound like work needs to be performed by a Porsche dealer (Not at the top of my list of competent service personnel!). My local dealer is outrageously expensive and totally incompetent when it comes to even simple service.

The PSE is a lot of money just to try it out knowing there will be no perf. improvement. It's worth it if comes included with the X-51.
I know the aftermarket HP claims may be overstated but that does not explain buying PSE for more $ which claims 0 HP.

By the way - FabSpeed is in Ambler PA if that helps. I have bought many of their products for my 996 in the past and any mechanic can install them, blindfolded, better than my local dealer. Most of it can be do-it-yourself. Get dirty!

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Jan 1, 2007 8:22:24 PM

jcs: Pilot; Loc: nj; Posts: 308, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2006; Reply to: Leawood911

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

Quote:
Leawood911 said:
Quote:
MMD said:
Do the Porsche SE first. You keep your warrenty if done by dealer. See if it does the job for you; do aftermarket mods as a last resort.

It sounds like he wants increased performance and driving pleasure. The PSE provides none of that unless more volume = pleasure (I'll buy some of that). Besides, how would he 'undo it' if he did not like it? I doubt Porsche would allow a free trial period. You also imply that other solutions void the warranty, and worse, you make it sound like work needs to be performed by a Porsche dealer (Not at the top of my list of competent service personnel!). My local dealer is outrageously expensive and totally incompetent when it comes to even simple service.
The PSE is a lot of money just to try it out knowing there will be no perf. improvement. It's worth it if comes included with the X-51.
I know the aftermarket HP claims may be overstated but that does not explain buying PSE for more $ which claims 0 HP.

By the way - FabSpeed is in Ambler PA if that helps. I have bought many of their products for my 996 in the past and any mechanic can install them, blindfolded, better than my local dealer. Most of it can be do-it-yourself. Get dirty!

Actually, to me it sounds like he is interested in SOUND first, and if there is a performance increase , that would be nice too.

That being the case, I would not put ANYTHING other than the PSE on my car .I like my car to sound like a PORSCHE not like some suped up Honda on steroids.
Nothing else comes close and you will not have any resonance problems at ANY RPM . GUARANTEED .
None of the aftermarket guys who weld mufflers in their garage can or will make that claim .

So why would anyone throw away a set of brand new mufflers and replace them with Fabspeed's ?
because they are CHEAP ??

Regarding performance increases :
Why should I believe the hype from some "expert" who sells mufflers out of his driveway ?
Have you ever added up the HP claimed for the Fabspeed exhaust system? When you add that 6 " long $225 rubber elbow "cold air intake kit " to the headers and mufflers, it comes to over 50 HP.
That in itself sums up the credibility of that outfit.

And just because Porsche does not make any performance claims for the PSE (unlike the Fabspeed BS)
does not mean that there is none.
With the PSE exhaust valves open, ~ 2/3 of the muffler gets bypassed . To me that means that there has to be less back pressure .Which , logically should result in some power gains.

In fact, probably a heck of a lot more than from most of the aftermarket stuff (I'm pretty sure Porsche does not include the PSE in their power package just for the sound )

And last, none of the others have the feature that you can turn the PSE on and off at will .
It is pretty loud ( louder than most others in fact) and sometimes I actually like to have a conversation with my passenger,or listen to the radio (not to mention that our neighbors may not share our enthusiasm when we come roaring up the street at 2 AM )

In my opinion, nothing else sounds better on a Porsche than the PSE ,with absolutely no resonance problems. I highly recommend it.

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Jan 1, 2007 11:16:11 PM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6894, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: jcs

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

Quote:
jcs said:
Quote:
Leawood911 said:
Quote:
MMD said:
Do the Porsche SE first. You keep your warrenty if done by dealer. See if it does the job for you; do aftermarket mods as a last resort.

It sounds like he wants increased performance and driving pleasure. The PSE provides none of that unless more volume = pleasure (I'll buy some of that). Besides, how would he 'undo it' if he did not like it? I doubt Porsche would allow a free trial period. You also imply that other solutions void the warranty, and worse, you make it sound like work needs to be performed by a Porsche dealer (Not at the top of my list of competent service personnel!). My local dealer is outrageously expensive and totally incompetent when it comes to even simple service.
The PSE is a lot of money just to try it out knowing there will be no perf. improvement. It's worth it if comes included with the X-51.
I know the aftermarket HP claims may be overstated but that does not explain buying PSE for more $ which claims 0 HP.

By the way - FabSpeed is in Ambler PA if that helps. I have bought many of their products for my 996 in the past and any mechanic can install them, blindfolded, better than my local dealer. Most of it can be do-it-yourself. Get dirty!

Actually, to me it sounds like he is interested in SOUND first, and if there is a performance increase , that would be nice too.

That being the case, I would not put ANYTHING other than the PSE on my car .I like my car to sound like a PORSCHE not like some suped up Honda on steroids.
Nothing else comes close and you will not have any resonance problems at ANY RPM . GUARANTEED .
None of the aftermarket guys who weld mufflers in their garage can or will make that claim .

So why would anyone throw away a set of brand new mufflers and replace them with Fabspeed's ?
because they are CHEAP ??

Regarding performance increases :
Why should I believe the hype from some "expert" who sells mufflers out of his driveway ?
Have you ever added up the HP claimed for the Fabspeed exhaust system? When you add that 6 " long $225 rubber elbow "cold air intake kit " to the headers and mufflers, it comes to over 50 HP.
That in itself sums up the credibility of that outfit.

And just because Porsche does not make any performance claims for the PSE (unlike the Fabspeed BS)
does not mean that there is none.
With the PSE exhaust valves open, ~ 2/3 of the muffler gets bypassed . To me that means that there has to be less back pressure .Which , logically should result in some power gains.

In fact, probably a heck of a lot more than from most of the aftermarket stuff (I'm pretty sure Porsche does not include the PSE in their power package just for the sound )

And last, none of the others have the feature that you can turn the PSE on and off at will .
It is pretty loud ( louder than most others in fact) and sometimes I actually like to have a conversation with my passenger,or listen to the radio (not to mention that our neighbors may not share our enthusiasm when we come roaring up the street at 2 AM )

In my opinion, nothing else sounds better on a Porsche than the PSE ,with absolutely no resonance problems. I highly recommend it.

1) IT will not sound like a Honda! I have had these on my 996. Have you ever heard a FabSpeed Porsche?
2) It is the stock Porsche system that has resonance issues. The ones I have tried did not have any resonance issues, again have you heard the FabSpeed exhaust? It has been praised by many Porsche owners.
3) Not welded together in some garage and sold from a driveway - but you do illustrate your bias well.
4) They are not cheap, they are constructed using better materials than the Porsche mufflers and they save weight.
5) You do not have to throw your old stock mufflers away. You can bolt them back on anytime.
6) I discounted the HP claims eventhough there have been 100's of before and after dyno tests confirming most of these gains. I am surprised you did not claim the aftermarket parts reduced HP while at the same time attibuting HP gains to PSE where not even the factory dares to - because it must be logical that more sound = more HP. LOL!

I would NEVER put PSE on my car... so there

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Jan 1, 2007 11:47:06 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: Leawood911

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

There is most likely a similar hp gain with either PSE or Fabspeed. Porsche just doesn't claim there's a gain because they didn't want to pay for the certification. Granted, you don't save weight, however, with Fabspped and many others.

If Fabspeed or any others are claiming any more than 2-3%, they're full of themselves, imo. Many aftermarket systems also lose power from stock.

Lasty, since when can you buy any Porsche aftermarket performance mufflers and headers, etc... for the same price as PSE. There is no reason that PSE should cost more than $2400.00 and there are discounts if you look.

On a side note. I met a guy last summer, who had installed Fabspeed's rubber hose on the airbox. He paid the $250.00 and believed that his 997 non S ran as hard as the S. Of course, he was walking into the grocery store with his bluetooth earpiece, in case he got a call, his Porsche shoes, jacket and sunglasses. Some people will buy anything, literally.

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Jan 2, 2007 12:17:42 AM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6894, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: devo

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

check out the similar post - 'Anyone installed Cargraphic headers, x-cats & sport muffler?' and the link there to the Tubi site which has some great sound clips. Nice hardware too!
My choice would be headers, 100 cell cats, mufflers, intake and chip tuning. All told a gain of 30 HP (Manf. claims would peg this 50+) and 40 lbs off the rear should be realistic for around $4K installed while keeping all the original parts. I will make certain to get before and after dyno specs.

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Jan 2, 2007 4:24:46 AM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2866, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: Leawood911

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

Please let us know how it turns out (sound and performance) I have been considering the AWE full exhaust for a few months, but can't seem to commit.

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Jan 2, 2007 7:17:16 PM

jcs: Pilot; Loc: nj; Posts: 308, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2006; Reply to: Leawood911

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

1) IT will not sound like a Honda! I have had these on my 996. Have you ever heard a FabSpeed Porsche?
2) It is the stock Porsche system that has resonance issues. The ones I have tried did not have any resonance issues, again have you heard the FabSpeed exhaust? It has been praised by many Porsche owners.
3) Not welded together in some garage and sold from a driveway - but you do illustrate your bias well.
4) They are not cheap, they are constructed using better materials than the Porsche mufflers and they save weight.
5) You do not have to throw your old stock mufflers away. You can bolt them back on anytime.
6) I discounted the HP claims eventhough there have been 100's of before and after dyno tests confirming most of these gains. I am surprised you did not claim the aftermarket parts reduced HP while at the same time attibuting HP gains to PSE where not even the factory dares to - because it must be logical that more sound = more HP. LOL!

I would NEVER put PSE on my car... so there

1. You are right . The Honda sounds better .

2. Yes, I have heard the Fabspeeds. You either like them or you don't. My friend had them put on his 997 S a while back . He started the car, drove it around the parking lot and had them removed.
We both bought PSE's shortly after that.

3. Watch the amateurish Fabspeed commercial where he walks along pointing his video camera at various mufflers lined up along the edge of his driveway . But, perhaps you are right. He may actually sell them from his living room instead .
And yes, I am biased against people who outright lie and grossly misrepresent their products.
Not just their mufflers, but the rest of the stuff they try to peddle as well.

4.How is cheap , paper thin sheetmetal and thin wall exhaust tubing(instead of pipe )better quality than OEM ?
Why do you think they are so light ?
but you no doubt get a "lifetime" warranty. Right ? Lol

5. OK , so what's your point ?
Do you swap out your mufflers every other week?

6. If the claimed HP gains are "proven" by 100's of reliable dyno tests, why do you yourself discount them ?
Is it because not even you are dumb enough to believe them?

Where did I state that more sound = more HP ?
You should really learn to read better before making stupid comments.
And if you prefer the Fabspeeds to OEM, good for you .
Just make sure you bought them for the sound, not for the performance BS.

Enjoy your car ( whatever it is )

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Jan 2, 2007 8:23:43 PM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6894, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: jcs

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

1. If you like the sound of a Honda better that's fine.
2. Did you dyno your cars befor and after the PSE? How much did it cost? Parts and labor? I'm really interested and not trying to knock you.

3. Watch the amateurish Fabspeed commercial - I love those 'commercials'. They are a riot. I wonder if local law enforcement is hip to them. Another link to a Tubi dealer also has similar footage. Priceless.

I would also resent people who misrepresent their product but my experience with them has not been anything but professional and positive. If your only dealing with them has been limited to not liking the tone of their exhaust I would consider your statements to be a bit excessive and unfair. Many great companies started small. I lived just down the road from Porsche first little shop in Gmund, Austria for my first 12 years. Pretty certain his wife ran the business from her living room.

4.I can't win - if they are light they are thin and cheap. If they are heavy they are adding weight. Yes, they probably do come with a lifetime warranty as they are trying hard to service customers and keep them happy. Do you prefer a shorter warranty? How much shorter?

5. My point is that you can try them out easily and then go back. Once you installed the PSE could you go back easily? At least some of the discussion was based on options to try. The PSE is not easy to try and change back.

6. I discounted the dyno claims to make the point that if even half the expected gain was true it would be cheap HP by Porsche standards. You may call me stupid if you like, I have been called worse. My goal here was to provide information based on my experience. It seems your investment in PSE has put you on the defensive.

Again I was being stupid and not reading well when I linked your logical assumption that more sound meant more HP. You used 'less backpressure' = more HP. I stand corrected and, again, stupid, although less backpressure doesn't always = more HP.

I did have the Fabspeed muffles on my 996 as well as GAIC chip tuning and the cold - air kit. I did not dyno it before and after back then but the performance difference was very dramatic.

I have attached a picture of my current car which already has 42K. My 996 was sold after 90K. After more then 500K of 911 miles in my lifetime I still drive with the windows down and the stereo off (even to listen to PSE!).

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Jan 2, 2007 11:54:06 PM

KiwiCanuck: Co-Pilot; Loc: Canada; Posts: 210, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 14, 2005; Reply to: 997man

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

Absolutely!------

I have the exhaust and headers from Evolution MotorSports, and they sound marvellous, with no resonance above 2300rpm.............where you shouldn't be for any time. Evo are a real quality outfit who give dyno increases that are realistic.............

The engine now wips passed 5000rpm with much more enthusiasm and a much cleaner, brighter sound---before it roared like a bear..... not pleasant. The stock headers are.....'garbage'....and the OE mufflers are for GT cruisers....let it breathe!

Enjoy............KiwiCanuck

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Jan 3, 2007 1:52:00 AM

997man: Newbie; Loc: usa; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: KiwiCanuck

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

Ok,

So I started this topic and it sounds like a few of the PSE owners are very passionate about there purchase which I guess means for the most part are very happy. A few have chosen other aftermarket brands. What should I expect the cost to be of PSE with installation ?

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Jan 3, 2007 10:07:50 AM

Silver_Surfer: Junior; Loc: Hampshire,UK; Posts: 73, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 16, 2006; Reply to: 997man

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

if you get the PSE just make sure you do the mod so it's on all the time and you don't get the stupid cut out between 30-50 mph and at some RPM's

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Jan 3, 2007 4:33:58 PM

jcs: Pilot; Loc: nj; Posts: 308, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2006; Reply to: 997man

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

Quote:
997man said:
Ok,

So I started this topic and it sounds like a few of the PSE owners are very passionate about there purchase which I guess means for the most part are very happy. A few have chosen other aftermarket brands. What should I expect the cost to be of PSE with installation ?

If you do not have sport chrono, you will need an additional switch , so it will cost more.
My cost breakdown was:
PSE equipment ~ $ 1655.74( list = $2090.77 )
Switch module $ 69.26
Installation labor: (per Porsche) 330 TU's (with chrono ) and an additional 150 TU's to install the switch for cars without chrono .
( 330 Time units = 3.3 Hrs.)
My total installed cost was $2396.68 including Tax( with the switch)
You can have just the mufflers installed ,but the PSE is pretty loud and I definitely recommend the full electronic/pneumatic switch installation so you can close the valves on occasion ( like when you pass a cop ) Lol

PS: The PSE's come with their own new exhaust tips.
If you have the 997S , keep your old dual tips( I sold mine for $150 and have seen others sell for more)

Hope this helps you.

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Jan 7, 2007 9:28:23 PM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6894, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: jcs

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

Does PSE include new / different Mufflers? I thought it was just a switching unit to open up the exhaust a bit?

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Jan 8, 2007 2:19:15 PM

jcs: Pilot; Loc: nj; Posts: 308, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2006; Reply to: Leawood911

Re: Aftermarket exhaust for a 997 non-s ???

Quote:
Leawood911 said:
Does PSE include new / different Mufflers? I thought it was just a switching unit to open up the exhaust a bit?

You get new mufflers and new exhaust tips.
The mufflers have three chambers in them and are probably the same, but on the stock muffler, the exhaust goes thru all three.
The PSE mufflers have an additional exhaust pipe connected to the first chamber, with a valve in it .
When the valve opens, the exhaust exits already from the first chamber and does not have to go thru the other two.
That's why it's louder and it's also reasonable to assume that the exhaust back pressure is less with the PSE on (although Porsche does not make any HP gain claims for it)

The bypass valves are controlled by a separate switch in cars without Sport chrono, and by the existing "Sport" switch in cars with the Sport chrono option
(that's why it costs more to install the new switch if you don't have Sport chrono )

On the other hand,if you have the Sport chrono, you have to go into the "Sport" setting to activate the PSE and without it , you can turn it on/off whenever you feel like it .

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