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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    I believe when MS was excluded and lost all his points the constructors points remained with Ferrari. 


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Leawood911:

    I believe when MS was excluded and lost all his points the constructors points remained with Ferrari. 

     

    As FIA didn't go all the way with the punishment. They could but didn't. Rules and regulations are there to be used. 

    With so much money involved, there will no doubt be appeals and protests and lawsuits following such decisions. 

     

     


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    on the other hand if Max really does that what win would that be....he would alienate himself for the future and it wouldn't go down in history well either...

    professional sports women/men should have enough coolness to go after their profession in the cleanest way. very often not the case unfortunately.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    intouch1:

    on the other hand if Max really does that what win would that be....he would alienate himself for the future and it wouldn't go down in history well either...

    professional sports women/men should have enough coolness to go after their profession in the cleanest way. very often not the case unfortunately.

    I wouldn't play board games at christmas with him Smiley

    But, If he wins in Dubai, fair and square then he has done it and won it on merit. You go Max. Smiley


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Driver standings if we didn't count Sprint races:

    Silverstone
    Max 3
    Ham 2

    Monza
    Hax 2
    Ham 0

    São Paulo
    Max 2
    Ham 0


    Ham 367.5
    Max 362.5 (-5)


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Verstappen And Hamilton's Incident | Jolyon Palmer's F1 TV Analysis | 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko4ylgDpABQ


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Race director Michael Masi has highlighted a series of clauses in the rules to do with fair racing ahead of the F1 title decider, including the potential for withdrawal of championship points for transgressors

    https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1468893627380346886

     

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    Lando Norris asked in the press conference how he's going to stop Carlos Sainz and Ferrari this weekend.

    Laughs and says. "Erm... try brake testing him? It's only a 10-second penalty".

    https://twitter.com/natesaundersF1/status/1468896614731649028


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    I wonder if the sporting regulations contains something about the possibility to withdraw the points gained on previous races. Constructor champ is one thing, driver is another


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Slightly alarming, it appears that the vicious kerbs from Losail have also been added to the Yas Marina Circuit after the recent renovations.

     

    https://twitter.com/NaturalParadigm/status/1468689407318364163


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Topspeed:

    Slightly alarming, it appears that the vicious kerbs from Losail have also been added to the Yas Marina Circuit after the recent renovations.

     

    https://twitter.com/NaturalParadigm/status/1468689407318364163

     

    They just need to be broken in.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    kudryavchik:

    I wonder if the sporting regulations contains something about the possibility to withdraw the points gained on previous races. Constructor champ is one thing, driver is another

     

    I mentioned that before. See 1997. Michael Schumacher was excluded for the whole championship, he lost 2nd place in the standing. But FIA let him keep the wins. FIA went light on Ferrari and let them keep the points for the Constructors. 

    So if FIA really want to come down hard on Max this weekend, they could take away his standing on the Driver's side, pretend he never competed this year, take away all his wins, and also take away his points earned fro Red Bull, which means Red Bull will drop behind Ferrari, McLaren.

     


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Kimi's fairwell livery:

    1639068991386Screen Shot 2021-12-09 at 9.28.38 AM.jpg


    Re: [2021] Formula 1


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    What a gamble this would be! 

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/ted-kravitz-lewis-hamilton-fresh-engine/


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Gauss:

    What a gamble this would be! 

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/ted-kravitz-lewis-hamilton-fresh-engine/

    Merc will not do that. Smiley

    Start off amongst more cars, nooooo. Smiley

     


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

    991 GT3.2 pick up April/May 2018. ( Hairy Chest Spec ).

    Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Exclusive pick up June 2013. ( Shit Box )

    Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    throt:
    Gauss:

    What a gamble this would be! 

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/ted-kravitz-lewis-hamilton-fresh-engine/

    Merc will not do that. Smiley

    Start off amongst more cars, nooooo. Smiley

    They deem it safer than to start off against VER Smiley


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Gauss:
    throt:
    Gauss:

    What a gamble this would be! 

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/ted-kravitz-lewis-hamilton-fresh-engine/

    Merc will not do that. Smiley

    Start off amongst more cars, nooooo. Smiley

    They deem it safer than to start off against VER Smiley

     ""Mad Max"" Smiley

    Max will have his big boy pants on all weekend. Time to hand it to Hammy Smiley


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

    991 GT3.2 pick up April/May 2018. ( Hairy Chest Spec ).

    Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Exclusive pick up June 2013. ( Shit Box )

    Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Says something about Max's reputation when EVERYONE is talking about him taking out Hamilton to win the title. Absolutely no one on Earth will trust him to do the right thing, i.e. racing fair, with sportsmanship. 

    There are two sides to getting another new engine. On one side, this engine only needs to last ONE race. It can be turned up to 15 if they desire. Maybe like an extra 100hp or something. just blowing past everyone. 

    On the other side, Hamilton will still need to physically pass Max at some point. Unless of course they planned on passing Max while he is in the pits changing tires and can't do anything about it. Cause if they do get near each other on track, Max will be like a homing missile towards Hamilton. Just look at Brazil, Max tried really hard already to crash out Hamilton. I really don't see any scenario where Max will not try to crash Hamilton at all. Unless of course he secured pole and then drives the wheels off his Red Bull leaving the field behind. 

     


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    For fun google ‘kamikaze max verstappen’.  This being billed like a Mike Tyson fight  


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    It is amazing that after all these years and achievements Hamilton is still hungry for more. I believe that Mercedes and Hamilton are more equipped to win. But if RBR and Verstappen finish on top in a straight battle with sportmanship, all the respect to them.

    Especially RBR must be commented for taking on the might of a giant like Mercedes and be on the verge of winning.

    I'd prefer Hamilton to celebrate his 8th. I like personalities in all sports not just good or very good players. Hamilton is a huge driver and a personality. Verstappen is another driver who drives very fast and risks. Even if Verstappen wins this year, he will end up in the annals of Motorsport history without clear recognizability in the future. Who remembers or will remember in some years from now Champion drivers like Alan Jones, Keke Rosberg, Nigel Mansell (outside the UK), Jason Button, Damon Hill, Nico Rosberg? To name a few of those who came and went.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"



    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Merc look strong on this super smooth track.

    RB have their hands full, although, Horner did say that Max's RB needs a few tweaks here and there. They have obviously been tinkering with his set up and made a hash of it indecision

    Hopefully get it sorted for Qualy.


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

    991 GT3.2 pick up April/May 2018. ( Hairy Chest Spec ).

    Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Exclusive pick up June 2013. ( Shit Box )

    Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    RB are sandbagging IMO. Come Quali time Max will be flying again.


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Regardless of who will win the championships this year, no one, absolutely no one, (maybe Red Bull themselves), expects Red Bull and Max will put up such a good fight against the reigning champion Hamilton and Mercedes. 

    Red Bull came out very strong with their 2021 package, helped by the regulation change on the floor and a much stronger engine package from Honda. There is no question they had the early advantage car wise. If not for a ill-advised move by Max, they would have won the 1st race at Bahrain also. 

    For the first half of the season, regardless of what Max fans wanted to claim, the Red Bull is the faster car. Maybe they thin kit would diminish the skill aspect of their hero, it doesn't. Fast car gets fast driver and fast driver gets fast car, that's the law for F1. And it's a paper thin margin skill wise between Max and Lewis, it all basically just comes down to tactics and experiences. And whoever is leading the other. 

    It is unfortunate FIA set a precedence on penalizing the inside drivers on corners at Austria. for the 3 penalties given out, none of them actually warrants one. That's just racing. But that also set the precedence to the Silverstone incident which deemed Hamilton to be mostly at fault. It is what it is, Hamilton did not open his wheel out to advance towards Max, but Max turned into Hamilton's car however. As it stands, by the regulations, Hamilton caused an accident that was mostly his fault, so he got the appropriate penalty. Max fans can still cry more about 51g collision or whatever, just as they can still listen to Horner's propaganda. Any other racer on the grid at that moment would have opened up the steering wheel and race side by side to the next corner and more, live to fight another day. Someone didn't and missed out on 18 points. 

    Spa? There ins't a race, just freebie points. 

    Monza. There is another a bit too optimistic move by Max. Could he have waited? Absolutely, his Red Bull is still the faster race car, he will surely have chances to move past Hamilton later in the race. As it stands, he missed out earning points again, but Hamilton also DNF so no loss there.

    By the Russian GP the Mercedes still aren't at their top form like last year yet. Their last upgrades back in Silverstone helped but the car is still tricky to get into the setup window. What chaos during that race. Experience and strategy won out there.

    It's not until Brazil that Mercedes finally found their sweet spot, if not for Hamilton's skills, some good strategy calls and some luck, Red Bull and Max would have ran away with both championships already. 

    it had been an exciting season, especially with all the wet races scrambling the field. 

    Brazil, here is where FIA reversed their earlier precedences and didn't penalize the inside car on a corner, aka Max. Which also paved the way for them shooting themselves in the foot for rulings in Saudi. 

    Last 3 races Mercedes finally is in top form, delivering an equal car, or slightly better car, to Max's, and Hamilton took full advantage and pull even with Max points wise heading into the last race.

    If Max had made some better mental decisions earlier in the season, title would have been wrapped up already. He would already be celebrating. Bahrain +7 points, Silverstone another 18 if not the full 25, not counting Monza that's already an extra 25.

    This is the difference between Hamilton and Max. Hamilton raced long enough to know every point counts. There is no point in doing the zero or hero move for some glory at one corner. 

    If Hamilton prevail on Sunday, not sure if it would be looked at he WON the WDC, perhaps more like Max LOST the WDC because of some idiotic moves he made earlier in the season. He isn't the underdog all season, he was the favourite. Similar to Hamilton's 2007 bid. He lost the championship in Shanghai for one silly mistake, except max made a boat load of mistakes this year that cost him bucket loads of points. 

    If Max prevail on Sunday, in a way he deserves it. He has the stronger car for most of the season and he had the most podiums, most consistent as they say. Red Bull pit support is second to none. It would validate the hard work Red Bull team members put in all season long. All the way from Newey designing the car down to the tire changer. Newey really nailed it for the car, Red Bull is the only car on grid that didn't suffer from the floor change. Honda put in so much hardwork also and and it would be great for them to leave F1 on a high note. 

     

     


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    FP1. recon session.

    Max topped the chart. No surprise. Half a new track, he is the brave one that like to explore the limits right away. 

    FP2, normally a race pace long run test. And some quali practices. Hamilton tops. the chart Bit of a surprise where Max trialed by over 0.6 seconds. 

    But more telling, Max only gain 0.7 seconds between FP1 and FP2, while Hamilton found over 1.6 seconds.

    I suspect Max is running an older engine for practice. Saving their freshest engine for quali and race.

    FP3 tomorrow will be a much clearer picture of where they stands. 

     


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:

    Regardless of who will win the championships this year, no one, absolutely no one, (maybe Red Bull themselves), expects Red Bull and Max will put up such a good fight against the reigning champion Hamilton and Mercedes. 

    Red Bull came out very strong with their 2021 package, helped by the regulation change on the floor and a much stronger engine package from Honda. There is no question they had the early advantage car wise. If not for a ill-advised move by Max, they would have won the 1st race at Bahrain also. 

    For the first half of the season, regardless of what Max fans wanted to claim, the Red Bull is the faster car. Maybe they thin kit would diminish the skill aspect of their hero, it doesn't. Fast car gets fast driver and fast driver gets fast car, that's the law for F1. And it's a paper thin margin skill wise between Max and Lewis, it all basically just comes down to tactics and experiences. And whoever is leading the other. 

    It is unfortunate FIA set a precedence on penalizing the inside drivers on corners at Austria. for the 3 penalties given out, none of them actually warrants one. That's just racing. But that also set the precedence to the Silverstone incident which deemed Hamilton to be mostly at fault. It is what it is, Hamilton did not open his wheel out to advance towards Max, but Max turned into Hamilton's car however. As it stands, by the regulations, Hamilton caused an accident that was mostly his fault, so he got the appropriate penalty. Max fans can still cry more about 51g collision or whatever, just as they can still listen to Horner's propaganda. Any other racer on the grid at that moment would have opened up the steering wheel and race side by side to the next corner and more, live to fight another day. Someone didn't and missed out on 18 points. 

    Spa? There ins't a race, just freebie points. 

    Monza. There is another a bit too optimistic move by Max. Could he have waited? Absolutely, his Red Bull is still the faster race car, he will surely have chances to move past Hamilton later in the race. As it stands, he missed out earning points again, but Hamilton also DNF so no loss there.

    By the Russian GP the Mercedes still aren't at their top form like last year yet. Their last upgrades back in Silverstone helped but the car is still tricky to get into the setup window. What chaos during that race. Experience and strategy won out there.

    It's not until Brazil that Mercedes finally found their sweet spot, if not for Hamilton's skills, some good strategy calls and some luck, Red Bull and Max would have ran away with both championships already. 

    it had been an exciting season, especially with all the wet races scrambling the field. 

    Brazil, here is where FIA reversed their earlier precedences and didn't penalize the inside car on a corner, aka Max. Which also paved the way for them shooting themselves in the foot for rulings in Saudi. 

    Last 3 races Mercedes finally is in top form, delivering an equal car, or slightly better car, to Max's, and Hamilton took full advantage and pull even with Max points wise heading into the last race.

    If Max had made some better mental decisions earlier in the season, title would have been wrapped up already. He would already be celebrating. Bahrain +7 points, Silverstone another 18 if not the full 25, not counting Monza that's already an extra 25.

    This is the difference between Hamilton and Max. Hamilton raced long enough to know every point counts. There is no point in doing the zero or hero move for some glory at one corner. 

    If Hamilton prevail on Sunday, not sure if it would be looked at he WON the WDC, perhaps more like Max LOST the WDC because of some idiotic moves he made earlier in the season. He isn't the underdog all season, he was the favourite. Similar to Hamilton's 2007 bid. He lost the championship in Shanghai for one silly mistake, except max made a boat load of mistakes this year that cost him bucket loads of points. 

    If Max prevail on Sunday, in a way he deserves it. He has the stronger car for most of the season and he had the most podiums, most consistent as they say. Red Bull pit support is second to none. It would validate the hard work Red Bull team members put in all season long. All the way from Newey designing the car down to the tire changer. Newey really nailed it for the car, Red Bull is the only car on grid that didn't suffer from the floor change. Honda put in so much hardwork also and and it would be great for them to leave F1 on a high note. 

     

     

    Great analysis @Whoopsy!

    But still I feel that MV doesn’t deserve the title as he behaved so many times „above the rules“ and any real sportsmanship, so IMHO he ain‘t a worthy WC as LH always was and would be this season!

    Look how he‘s taking risks when overtaking or laping other opponents, Max is way to aggressive 


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    The length of each champion's reign (with career length for context)

     

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:

    FP1. recon session.

    Max topped the chart. No surprise. Half a new track, he is the brave one that like to explore the limits right away. 

    FP2, normally a race pace long run test. And some quali practices. Hamilton tops. the chart Bit of a surprise where Max trialed by over 0.6 seconds. 

    But more telling, Max only gain 0.7 seconds between FP1 and FP2, while Hamilton found over 1.6 seconds.

    I suspect Max is running an older engine for practice. Saving their freshest engine for quali and race.

    FP3 tomorrow will be a much clearer picture of where they stands. 

     

    As Max‘s only .1s faster than his Mexican teammate I do expect him to be at least at Lewis pace because even Ocon was faster on P2.

    Also it’s quite interesting what tyre tests RB made in FP2


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Lord_Driftalot:
     

    Great analysis @Whoopsy!

    But still I feel that MV doesn’t deserve the title as he behaved so many times „above the rules“ and any real sportsmanship, so IMHO he ain‘t a worthy WC as LH always was and would be this season!

    Look how he‘s taking risks when overtaking or laping other opponents, Max is way to aggressive 

     

    If he race clean this weekend, he deserves it as much as Hamilton does. He and his Red Bull clearly is the benchmark for most of the season regardless of how he drives on track. There are weekends when they are simply untouchable. 

    As for his driving behaviour, I mean he is the worse for the last 30-40-50 years of F1? But Vettel was sort of the same way back then, something about the Red Bull system. Heck Vettel was still throwing tantrums even after he went to Ferrari.

    Schumacher is another one of those. Max, like Schumacher, is just as clumsy, they do things in a very obvious way. 

    Is Hamilton a saint? Absolutely not. He will have his moments. But he is a smart and sly racer, on top of being very quick. He knows exactly where the rules stand, he will go right up against it, clever enough to not crossing over however. This is something Schumacher never learnt, nor Vettel and now Max. Max still got time to hone his race craft however. 

    Up until this year, and outside of Max fans, for his 14 year career, Hamilton was never labeled once a dirty racer, either by his peers, analysts or the press. He races hard, but fair, right at the limit but never over. Ask Rosberg, ask Alonso, or even Vettel, Hamilton made his opponents frustrated. Even more so when he is at the limit and there is nothing others can do without going over the limit to retaliate. And all three did went over the limit to retaliate and got various punishment as a result. 

    This is one key attribute Max would do well to learn and enjoy the benefits of. He is talented enough that he doesn't need to be a dirty racer. He can be a smart one and use the rules to his advantage. See turn 27 at Saudi when Hamilton finally passed Max. Hamilton got a informal warning, and that's it, as he is right up against what is allowed and what isn't. Some people, especially Max fans, were annoyed that Hamilton only got a warning. But contrast that to how Max would do it, he would fly off the track himself also which is very obvious on what he is doing, that's just opening the door for penalties and such. Had Max do his aggressive moves while staying inside the track limit like how Hamilton do it, he wouldn't be penalized much, if at all. 

    As long as the rules are enforced properly, Hamilton got nothing to be afraid of, he knows the rules and regulations got his back. This year is different. For some reason the rules aren't interpret consistently and thus we are getting drama after drama. FIA's biggest mistake was to swallow the whistle and 'let them race'. 

    This 'let them race' isn't F1 anymore, it isn't following F1 rules. It's something else that looks like F1 but isn't. What's next? Ferrari going back to their super hot engine cause 'let them race'? Red Bull going back to their illegal bendy wing cause 'let them race'? How about let Alonso have his ways on cutting corners cause 'let them race'?

     

     

     


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Lord_Driftalot:
    Whoopsy:

    FP1. recon session.

    Max topped the chart. No surprise. Half a new track, he is the brave one that like to explore the limits right away. 

    FP2, normally a race pace long run test. And some quali practices. Hamilton tops. the chart Bit of a surprise where Max trialed by over 0.6 seconds. 

    But more telling, Max only gain 0.7 seconds between FP1 and FP2, while Hamilton found over 1.6 seconds.

    I suspect Max is running an older engine for practice. Saving their freshest engine for quali and race.

    FP3 tomorrow will be a much clearer picture of where they stands. 

     

    As Max‘s only .1s faster than his Mexican teammate I do expect him to be at least at Lewis pace because even Ocon was faster on P2.

    Also it’s quite interesting what tyre tests RB made in FP2

     

    Max was mostly running softs. He only switched to medium to get some race pace data at the end.

    The objective is the same as in Saudi. Max will focus on qualifying. trying to nail pole. Race pace does't matter.

    He is trusting his 'defensive' game will be very much good enough to keep Hamilton behind during the race. 

    It might be obvious if he do it or Perez do it. But Red Bull do have another two drivers. Tsunoda had always been known as a somewhat 'unpredictable' driver, so if say an unfortunate incident happened between Yuki and Hamilton, it could be chalked up as a 'racing incident', or just Yuki doing Yuki thing, he did carelessly took Vettel out last race. 

    Gasly probably is above doing something stupid, but Tsunoda is a Honda backed driver. Now that Honda is gone next year, his seat aren't a guarantee, he needs to start listening to Red Bull's instructions if he wants to stay on the grid. 


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