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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    One of the key questions for Tesla investors and customers...  1553032464632image.gif

    Tesla Inc. Reporting: Capital Expenditures (Quarterly in US$ millions)
    2017 Q1 US$ 553 million
    2017 Q2 US$ 959 million
    2017 Q3 US$ 1,116 million
    2017 Q4 US$ 787 million
    2018 Q1 US$ 656 million
    2018 Q2 US$ 610 million
    2018 Q3 US$ 510 million
    2018 Q4 US$ 325 million
    2019 Q1 US$ 280 million

     

    "Our 2019 capex, the vast majority of which will be to grow our capacity and develop new vehicles, is expected to be about $2.0 to $2.5 billion. We believe this amount should be sufficient to continue to develop our main projects, such as Gigafactory Shanghai, Model Y and Tesla Semi, as well as for the further expansion of our Supercharger and service networks."

    ...is why a growth company in a capital-intensive industry is significantly reducing capital expenditures? Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Personally I have not been this excited with a car since I bought my first Ferrari a decade ago, mainly because they represent the future of automobiles.

    Correction, the future for "some" people. You must widen your mind and perspective on this regard. There is nothing in a Tesla that represents the future for a lot of people save the EV part which is not unique to Tesla. To me they are very unattractive looking cars, like if a Prius and a minivan had a son (the P is OK for a sedan though), as a sporstcar fan their interiors are exactly the opposite of what I like, and don't like how they are built either, and the handling is not good enough, also autopilot represents the opposite of excitement at the wheel and hope to never need or it will mean the joy of driving is gone for me, rather I like cars built for the driver to enjoy. 

    EV aspect aside, nothing about a Tesla will get me excited, on the contrary, and if EVs are the future then for me it will be other types of EVs made by someone else. Just like there are different ICE cars there will be different EV cars in the future, Teslas, if they are still around, will be one among many... not "the future" and played no part in my future save for pushing the EV schedule up a few years.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Of course for some people. But please realize you are in the minority. Of course here on RT we have a lot (all?) sport car enthusiasts for one reason or the other. But sport cars are what? 3% of global car sales? The handling is not good enough? But vs what, a 911? angry

    Mainly people cannot afford to have a sport car that is not practical and cannot be driven in winter or in bad weather. They they usually have much higher maintenance. Also once you have kids, it is getting harder to enjoy a true sport car that has only two seats.

    Once the Tesla roadster is out, you want to trash the handling which will not be better than a 911? Fine, I will do that too probably. But let’s compare what is comparable. But fact is people are replacing Porsche SUV and sedans with S and X. And that in itself is simply astonishing.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Of course for some people. But please realize you are in the minority. Of course here on RT we have a lot (all?) sport car enthusiasts for one reason or the other. But sport cars are what? 3% of global car sales? The handling is not good enough? But vs what, a 911? angry

    Mainly people cannot afford to have a sport car that is not practical and cannot be driven in winter or in bad weather. They they usually have much higher maintenance. Also once you have kids, it is getting harder to enjoy a true sport car that has only two seats.

    Once the Tesla roadster is out, you want to trash the handling which will not be better than a 911? Fine, I will do that too probably. But let’s compare what is comparable. But fact is people are replacing Porsche SUV and sedans with S and X. And that in itself is simply astonishing.

     

    Actually it's not about this forum. Out there in the general public, people that want a EV is the minority.

    No one really WANTS a EV, generally speaking. Annual car sales figures speaks the truth. 

    Right now Tesla is the new kid on the block for premium EV, people want one, but that's like fashion fads, once the better EV comes along from the Germans, British, hek even Japanese, Tesla will have a hard time unless they innovate more, and/or at least improve their build quality, fit and finish. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    For motor fan it is hard not to hear an engine scream, and I agree and I'm a old style motor guy, that still love the manual gear box even if it is 3 hours slower than any robotic/automatic/dsg...gear box I know it, but iit is  fun to drive old style...sometimes when I wanna drive..not every day in traffic...I understand that it is just out of time.  Well back to Tesla they are pioners and such all of them they are worthy of respect, and it is just incredible how a company starting years ago are so much ahead of the normal car industry ( germans) in primis. no body here could not even immagine a EV sedan outperforming a M3 in its habitat...the track...it is just incredible. if you talk about ugly cars from tesla, it is a bit exagerated if you compare what comes out today from almost every producer...the SUV one of the most ugly type of car ever built, Mercedes, bmw, audi, kia, hyunday, toyota , lexus...they all look the same shit to me and it is just so sad to see that 90% of the world want that kind f thing...so that even Ferrari is planning one...I'm still vomiting at the idea. But it is 2019. A model S is not uglier thatn any Merc S or bmw 7 or Audi A8...the model 3 is not so much uglier thatn a Bmw 3 Auid A6  etc...so I dont get the  point with the design ??? this hard battle should be done to SUV...not to some EV cars..ahhahaha


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    993 c2


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Lots of people are talking Tesla down , since even before they started to build cars . Non stop , right from the start of the project .  Remember how it went went the company became public , what analyst used to say , what other manufacturer  used to say ......  and it has not stoped since .  According to those , the company should be dead every 3 month for the last 10 years .

    It is still the same now .

    And look at how much people on this forum write about Tesla  . They spend so much of  their words , time and energy talking about a car, company , that they do not like, think it will go bust , makes no sense etc....  while hardly posting anything about sports cars, or Porsche . What does it say ? 

    I have no Tesla and have no intention to buy one .

    But , I do recognize what Tesla has achieved . That it has been a game changer in many ways, that they do shake up the industry, that their cars are the only EV that work properly . Just look on the streets . There are no other EV around . 

    They came from nothing , to be a car company that we see everywhere . This a hell of an achievement . No other car company had done that in the last  ( how many years ?? )  or the ones who tried , went down very quickly . 

    One can not deny the enthusiasm of the general public about these cars . In my part of the world, people are more exited about the model 3 then any new Porsche .  Talking about the general public, not we , the 3% ones that are into sports cars .  

    Model 3 is now all over the place here .  As I mentioned before , in even remote parts of the world, limousines at '' window places ''  are not Mercedes S class , or 7 series, they use Tesla X  . Why so ?  Because they are considered much cooler at the moment . 

    It is not about build quality , or extreme  performance , it is because of  the approach , the mind set , the trend  etc... that they are liked and considered . 

    A Tesla S , or X is not better looking or worse looking then any other SUV or Mercedes E, or 5 series, or other sedan . 

    They do not drive worse ( or not much worse )  or better in any normal suburban usage . 

    They do accelerate stronger though . 

    It often amazes me about all the argumentions I see on this board . So much theory .  But maybe people just like to debate for the pleasure of debating , and if that is the main reason to write all these posts, spend all this time and energy , and actually there is no real connection to the real world,  then that is ok too  


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Gnil:

    Lots of people are talking Tesla down , since even before they started to build cars . Non stop , right from the start of the project .  Remember how it went went the company became public , what analyst used to say , what other manufacturer  used to say ......  and it has not stoped since .  According to those , the company should be dead every 3 month for the last 10 years .

    It is still the same now .

    And look at how much people on this forum write about Tesla  . They spend so much of  their words , time and energy talking about a car, company , that they do not like, think it will go bust , makes no sense etc....  while hardly posting anything about sports cars, or Porsche . What does it say ? 

    I have no Tesla and have no intention to buy one .

    But , I do recognize what Tesla has achieved . That it has been a game changer in many ways, that they do shake up the industry, that their cars are the only EV that work properly . Just look on the streets . There are no other EV around . 

    They came from nothing , to be a car company that we see everywhere . This a hell of an achievement . No other car company had done that in the last  ( how many years ?? )  or the ones who tried , went down very quickly . 

    One can not deny the enthusiasm of the general public about these cars . In my part of the world, people are more exited about the model 3 then any new Porsche .  Talking about the general public, not we , the 3% ones that are into sports cars .  

    Model 3 is now all over the place here .  As I mentioned before , in even remote parts of the world, limousines at '' window places ''  are not Mercedes S class , or 7 series, they use Tesla X  . Why so ?  Because they are considered much cooler at the moment . 

    It is not about build quality , or extreme  performance , it is because of  the approach , the mind set , the trend  etc... that they are liked and considered . 

    A Tesla S , or X is not better looking or worse looking then any other SUV or Mercedes E, or 5 series, or other sedan . 

    They do not drive worse ( or not much worse )  or better in any normal suburban usage . 

    They do accelerate stronger though . 

    It often amazes me about all the argumentions I see on this board . So much theory .  But maybe people just like to debate for the pleasure of debating , and if that is the main reason to write all these posts, spend all this time and energy , and actually there is no real connection to the real world,  then that is ok too  


    Smiley

    Very well put Gnil and I agree 100% Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    This was the most fair and balanced post on this topic we had in quite a while.

    Not recognizing what Tesla has done to the automobile industry will yield zero credibility about this topic, regardless of liking the cars or not.

    Design wise, it is of course very subjective. But there seems to be a consensus that BMW Lexus and most Asian cars are no better than Teslas. Mercedes has done a nice job on the sedans, but they all look exactly the same. I always liked Audis though. But don’t even get me started on the new designs of Porsche rears. They are at the bottom of the littler today (I reserve judgement on the 992 until seen in the flesh).


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Gnil:

    Lots of people are talking Tesla down , since even before they started to build cars . Non stop , right from the start of the project .  Remember how it went went the company became public , what analyst used to say , what other manufacturer  used to say ......  and it has not stoped since .  According to those , the company should be dead every 3 month for the last 10 years .

    It is still the same now .

    And look at how much people on this forum write about Tesla  . They spend so much of  their words , time and energy talking about a car, company , that they do not like, think it will go bust , makes no sense etc....  while hardly posting anything about sports cars, or Porsche . What does it say ? 

    I have no Tesla and have no intention to buy one .

    But , I do recognize what Tesla has achieved . That it has been a game changer in many ways, that they do shake up the industry, that their cars are the only EV that work properly . Just look on the streets . There are no other EV around . 

    They came from nothing , to be a car company that we see everywhere . This a hell of an achievement . No other car company had done that in the last  ( how many years ?? )  or the ones who tried , went down very quickly . 

    One can not deny the enthusiasm of the general public about these cars . In my part of the world, people are more exited about the model 3 then any new Porsche .  Talking about the general public, not we , the 3% ones that are into sports cars .  

    Model 3 is now all over the place here .  As I mentioned before , in even remote parts of the world, limousines at '' window places ''  are not Mercedes S class , or 7 series, they use Tesla X  . Why so ?  Because they are considered much cooler at the moment . 

    It is not about build quality , or extreme  performance , it is because of  the approach , the mind set , the trend  etc... that they are liked and considered . 

    A Tesla S , or X is not better looking or worse looking then any other SUV or Mercedes E, or 5 series, or other sedan . 

    They do not drive worse ( or not much worse )  or better in any normal suburban usage . 

    They do accelerate stronger though . 

    It often amazes me about all the argumentions I see on this board . So much theory .  But maybe people just like to debate for the pleasure of debating , and if that is the main reason to write all these posts, spend all this time and energy , and actually there is no real connection to the real world,  then that is ok too  

    Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Very well said, Gnil. 

    Everybody has to respect what Tesla has achieved over the last couple of years. Though I still think that EV is not the solution for the future and though I don’t have interest in buying an EV myself - with exception of a stylish small city commuter maybe, but so far there is none - I have to say for something like an automobile startup it‘s amazing how far Tesla has come. As Gnil correctly stated, their cars are the only EV that really work, except perhaps the BMW i3. But this one isn’t exactly nice, you can call it special at most. And just look at such a abomination like the Audi e-tron, to me this is a totally wrong approach to conquer te EV-market and I‘m still not sure if the Taycan will do any better here.


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Exactly my point of view as I said. Respect for what tesla has done


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    993 c2


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Gnil:

    Lots of people are talking Tesla down , since even before they started to build cars . Non stop , right from the start of the project .  Remember how it went went the company became public , what analyst used to say , what other manufacturer  used to say ......  and it has not stoped since .  According to those , the company should be dead every 3 month for the last 10 years .

    It is still the same now .

    And look at how much people on this forum write about Tesla  . They spend so much of  their words , time and energy talking about a car, company , that they do not like, think it will go bust , makes no sense etc....  while hardly posting anything about sports cars, or Porsche . What does it say ? 

    I have no Tesla and have no intention to buy one .

    But , I do recognize what Tesla has achieved . That it has been a game changer in many ways, that they do shake up the industry, that their cars are the only EV that work properly . Just look on the streets . There are no other EV around . 

    They came from nothing , to be a car company that we see everywhere . This a hell of an achievement . No other car company had done that in the last  ( how many years ?? )  or the ones who tried , went down very quickly . 

    One can not deny the enthusiasm of the general public about these cars . In my part of the world, people are more exited about the model 3 then any new Porsche .  Talking about the general public, not we , the 3% ones that are into sports cars .  

    Model 3 is now all over the place here .  As I mentioned before , in even remote parts of the world, limousines at '' window places ''  are not Mercedes S class , or 7 series, they use Tesla X  . Why so ?  Because they are considered much cooler at the moment . 

    It is not about build quality , or extreme  performance , it is because of  the approach , the mind set , the trend  etc... that they are liked and considered . 

    A Tesla S , or X is not better looking or worse looking then any other SUV or Mercedes E, or 5 series, or other sedan . 

    They do not drive worse ( or not much worse )  or better in any normal suburban usage . 

    They do accelerate stronger though . 

    It often amazes me about all the argumentions I see on this board . So much theory .  But maybe people just like to debate for the pleasure of debating , and if that is the main reason to write all these posts, spend all this time and energy , and actually there is no real connection to the real world,  then that is ok too  

     

    You know, I have never seem a higher density of Tesla outside of California except Switzerland. It's like the perfect car for the anti-car culture of those Swiss people. And they all seems to set their cruise control to 2km over on the highway.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    You know, I have never seem a higher density of Tesla outside of California except Switzerland. It's like the perfect car for the anti-car culture of those Swiss people. And they all seems to set their cruise control to 2km over on the highway.

     

    You are learning Smiley Next time you won't have a problem driving here ...... Smiley

    Swiss do not have an anti-car culture , in Europe it is the market with most dense high end cars , and even the ' normal mass cars '' are usually chosen with the biggest engine possible . Loads of entry level configuration of cars are not even imported here . 

    At the time the 928 was a big success in Switzerland , maybe the only country were it was a success . People here like novelty and high end 

    But... a part of our population wants to be very green , and we do have a culture that is all about precision to the point it becomes sometimes anal .... Smiley


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Gnil:
    Whoopsy:
    You know, I have never seem a higher density of Tesla outside of California except Switzerland. It's like the perfect car for the anti-car culture of those Swiss people. And they all seems to set their cruise control to 2km over on the highway.

     

    You are learning Smiley Next time you won't have a problem driving here ...... Smiley

    Swiss do not have an anti-car culture , in Europe it is the market with most dense high end cars , and even the ' normal mass cars '' are usually chosen with the biggest engine possible . Loads of entry level configuration of cars are not even imported here . 

    At the time the 928 was a big success in Switzerland , maybe the only country were it was a success . People here like novelty and high end 

    But... a part of our population wants to be very green , and we do have a culture that is all about precision to the point it becomes sometimes anal .... Smiley


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     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     

    Same here...even some people who drive high end sports cars. Smiley My wife's best friend just reduced her flying to one(!) trip per year to reduce CO2 output. Her husband and the kids are still flying...without her. Smiley Makes really sense...

    People are just nuts, many don't seem to understand what good of a life they actually have compared to others but apparently it is part of certain cultural aspects in some regions to be rich but have a hippie soul. Smiley Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Gnil:
    Whoopsy:
    You know, I have never seem a higher density of Tesla outside of California except Switzerland. It's like the perfect car for the anti-car culture of those Swiss people. And they all seems to set their cruise control to 2km over on the highway.

     

    You are learning Smiley Next time you won't have a problem driving here ...... Smiley

    Swiss do not have an anti-car culture , in Europe it is the market with most dense high end cars , and even the ' normal mass cars '' are usually chosen with the biggest engine possible . Loads of entry level configuration of cars are not even imported here . 

    At the time the 928 was a big success in Switzerland , maybe the only country were it was a success . People here like novelty and high end 

    But... a part of our population wants to be very green , and we do have a culture that is all about precision to the point it becomes sometimes anal .... Smiley


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     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     

     

    Yes, they all drive like they had a butt plug stuck in their ass and can't even move a muscle on their right foot.Smiley

    I should rephrase that, not anti-car, but anti-car-going-fast culture. Some of the most high power cars I seen around Europe have Swiss plates, the car itself may not resides in Switzerland but that's a different story.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
     

    Yes, they all drive like they had a butt plug stuck in their ass and can't even move a muscle on their right foot.Smiley

    I should rephrase that, not anti-car, but anti-car-going-fast culture. Some of the most high power cars I seen around Europe have Swiss plates, the car itself may not resides in Switzerland but that's a different story.

     

    That is all very true Smiley The anti car going fast is the most annoying . That one has gotten out of hand .

    At the same time, on the congested highways, the only way to avoid , or at least to reduce traffic jams , is to drive slower and all at the exact same pace . We are practicing for the way it is going to be when autonomous cars will be around  Smiley


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     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Switzerland is very dangerous for Us italians...as fast we are across the border we get fines fines fines fines fines.....just some km what a difference that they make......very difficult to drive in the swiss style....but so easy for the swiss to get used to our drive style....hahahaah so many swiss driving +200....


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    993 c2


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Hmm i thought Italy is nowadays also very strict about speeding !? 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    xander71:

    Switzerland is very dangerous for Us italians...as fast we are across the border we get fines fines fines fines fines.....just some km what a difference that they make......very difficult to drive in the swiss style....but so easy for the swiss to get used to our drive style....hahahaah so many swiss driving +200....

     

    That is soooo true. Italian highways are nice to drive on, even the Police at times turn a blind eye if one is in a nice car.

    The road quality of Swiss highway is like up there if not better than Italian ones but the speed limit is a different story.

     

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Gnil:
    Whoopsy:
     

    Yes, they all drive like they had a butt plug stuck in their ass and can't even move a muscle on their right foot.Smiley

    I should rephrase that, not anti-car, but anti-car-going-fast culture. Some of the most high power cars I seen around Europe have Swiss plates, the car itself may not resides in Switzerland but that's a different story.

     

    That is all very true Smiley The anti car going fast is the most annoying . That one has gotten out of hand .

    At the same time, on the congested highways, the only way to avoid , or at least to reduce traffic jams , is to drive slower and all at the exact same pace . We are practicing for the way it is going to be when autonomous cars will be around  Smiley

     

    Switzerland will be the Utopia for Elon's autopilot program. Robotic highway travel.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Also there is a very tiring passive aggressive driving style in Switzerland normally practiced by the big city types... Try being on one of the highways in a congested period, like coming back from skiing.... left hand lane sits at 125 to 130 kmh but the problem is that if you have more than 2 car lengths to the car in front, the car behind thinks you don’t really mean to be in the left lane and starts to aggressively close in or flash. And given that periodically the whole lane will slow down rapidly for something, it gets rather stressful to stay left but also not brake too fast when you need to slow down to avoid the moron behind from going up your “behind” as it were.....

    Where it is a whole lot better is in the Wallis. The Wallis is the least well- off canton in Switzerland but also has something like half of the 80-odd 4000 meter peaks of the European Alps. People there like driving, drive in the mountains as par for the course and hate speed cameras (have voted against their installation and I believe there are only two in the whole Canton outside of central town zones)... and they all drive fast down there... with whatever they have..


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    hunterone:

    Hmm i thought Italy is nowadays also very strict about speeding !? 

    We’ll it depends on the highways, some are not controlled...some are...but generally driving 150 160 is the normal speed, Shen not controlled it is just like once upon a time...


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    993 c2


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Gnil:
     

    Swiss do not have an anti-car culture , in Europe it is the market with most dense high end cars , and even the ' normal mass cars '' are usually chosen with the biggest engine possible . Loads of entry level configuration of cars are not even imported here . 

     

     

    I was always surprised that the Swiss have always liked and bought US cars (Jeep, Cadillac etc.). They have a slightly different car culture than other European countries for sure. Probably many Swiss are disillusioned by the traffic laws and gave up already Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    xander71:

    Switzerland is very dangerous for Us italians...as fast we are across the border we get fines fines fines fines fines.....just some km what a difference that they make......very difficult to drive in the swiss style....but so easy for the swiss to get used to our drive style....hahahaah so many swiss driving +200....

    Much easier to un- discipline then to discipline Smiley Looking forward to my different drives to Mugello and to Sant Agata this season Smiley


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    996FourEss:

    Also there is a very tiring passive aggressive driving style in Switzerland normally practiced by the big city types... Try being on one of the highways in a congested period, like coming back from skiing.... left hand lane sits at 125 to 130 kmh but the problem is that if you have more than 2 car lengths to the car in front, the car behind thinks you don’t really mean to be in the left lane and starts to aggressively close in or flash. And given that periodically the whole lane will slow down rapidly for something, it gets rather stressful to stay left but also not brake too fast when you need to slow down to avoid the moron behind from going up your “behind” as it were.....

    Where it is a whole lot better is in the Wallis. The Wallis is the least well- off canton in Switzerland but also has something like half of the 80-odd 4000 meter peaks of the European Alps. People there like driving, drive in the mountains as par for the course and hate speed cameras (have voted against their installation and I believe there are only two in the whole Canton outside of central town zones)... and they all drive fast down there... with whatever they have..

    pretty true , specially the part about the Valais , even though , now you better also be careful when driving down some of those mountain roads, specially down from Verbier . 

    Cultures are quite different from the Italian , to the french or the german part of Switzerland . One cannot generalize  . 

    As to the driving on the highways, I have zero problems . Maybe it is just a thing to get used to . Stick to about 5 km/h over the limit , get on the right lane when possible, if heavy traffic , just stay in your lane staying close to the car in front of you . Dynamic cruse control becomes then very handy .

     


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     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    MKSGR:
    Gnil:
     

    Swiss do not have an anti-car culture , in Europe it is the market with most dense high end cars , and even the ' normal mass cars '' are usually chosen with the biggest engine possible . Loads of entry level configuration of cars are not even imported here . 

     

     

    I was always surprised that the Swiss have always liked and bought US cars (Jeep, Cadillac etc.). They have a slightly different car culture than other European countries for sure. Probably many Swiss are disillusioned by the traffic laws and gave up already Smiley

    Very true .


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Top Gear EV test: Audi e-tron vs Tesla Model X vs Jaguar I-Pace

    1556608503148image.jpeg

    (April 2019)

    Has the family EV finally come of age?

    It takes five hours and 48 minutes to drive to Devon. A journey that would normally take just under three. More than a trip, it’s an education. By the time I arrive at Exmoor, I have five new apps on my phone, have battled malfunctioning charge points, know the desk staff at Tiverton leisure centre and have come to the conclusion that to buy an electric car you need a spirit of adventure.

    If you’re planning on driving it a long way, that is. Electric cars make perfect sense as a second car. A 120-mile range is fine if you’re never doing more than 60 a day. Your home charger is your lifeline. But trying to drive a long way is like casting yourself adrift in a life raft – you’re at the mercy of currents. And volts.

    I’ll get on to the cars shortly, but here’s what you need to know. The cars are all brilliant. No, seriously, they are. And there’s no such thing as range anxiety. Because battery range comfortably exceeds bladder range. Time anxiety? Absolutely, when you’re running three hours late. Infrastructure anxiety? That’s the key one for me. We can probably plan extra time into a journey, leave earlier, do some work en route while charging is occurring. But the knowledge that the infrastructure might not work as needed? That’s plain stressful.

    Unless you drive a Tesla. Welcome to first class recharging. The Supercharger: turn up, plug in, and in 40 minutes you have 80 per cent. The fastest chargers we found for the Audi and Jaguar worked at less than half that speed – 50kW per hour instead of 120. With Tesla (after a free initial period) you pay 24 pence per kWh; with the others we were paying 30–35p. At home it’s around 15p. Building its own charging network in parallel with car sales was, of course, Tesla’s genius. The joy of being a company coming at things fresh and unburdened.

    Compare and contrast with the Audi e-tron. It’s built not on a bespoke electric platform (that comes later in a joint project with Porsche), but on a modified Q7 chassis. Inserting a 700kg, 95kWh battery pack has driven weight up to 2,490kg. Even heavier than a Tesla that is 100mm longer, 60mm wider (you really notice it in the west country) and much, much airier inside.

    1556608700459image.jpeg

    Of course the approach is different. Audi needs to sell the e-tron to customers bred on internal combustion, those that need persuading to make the switch. Tesla had it easy. They soaked up those early adopters, those that wanted to embrace the tech. Now is when we find out what Tesla is really made of. Recently, it massively slashed prices (the Model X 100D by £9,750) – nothing to do with the threat of arriving rivals, says Tesla, but a long-term strategic goal. But also no support for those who have just seen thousands wiped off their car’s value. Well, if you’d bought a car recently, you could get Autopilot for half price. Big deal.

    Storm Gareth is sweeping Exmoor with 50mph horizontal rain, which nullified my tardiness. We shelter in the Tesla. It’s a six-seater with captain’s chairs for the middle row. Five seats are standard; this is a £5,900 option. Ouch. I still can’t believe the falcon-wing doors aren’t only a concept. They can open in 11in of space, with sensors to prevent knocks against pillars or squeezing children. They do not, however, like closing in 50mph winds.

    The cabin is massive, dominated up front by two screens – the 17-incher in the dash, and the eight-footer that arcs back over your head. I can’t decide whether I like this great slaphead or not. It’s tinted so sun glare isn’t an issue, and the sense of peripheral vision is great, but you also feel exposed underneath this see-through forehead. The dash screen? Well, now everyone seems to be going to touchscreen, this is the biggest and the best. As big as a road atlas, so we scout locations on it.

    The others feel very normal in comparison. Two seats up front, three in the back. Head and legroom passable, but not remarkable, the sense of theatre and drama turned right down. Not much for kids to get excited about. Where they both, especially the Audi, give the Tesla a good kicking is fit and finish. The Model X is not nearly so tightly assembled. But both Europeans also feel fussy and overly complex inside – squinting at screens, ploughing through menu systems, figuring out the functionality.

    1556608907695image.jpeg

    The Tesla is simpler. And more playful. Where the Audi and Jaguar label their driving modes Eco and Efficiency, the Tesla goes for Chill. Can’t see Audi giving its cars a Fart mode any time soon, either. That would wear off, I know, and I’d get frustrated by the unsupportive seats, less cosy driving position and, yep, the way it looks outside.

    I nickname it ‘Heffalump’. It’s just a dirty great fat blob. The Audi is an Audi and the Jaguar is gorgeous. It really is. And from just about every angle. It looks light on its wheels, blends tradition and modernity. It’s the one I want to be seen driving the most, the one that’s neither an SUV or a giant hatchback MPV.

    But then it’s not so much a family car as a five-seat GT. All things considered, it’s very well packaged and performs the family role perfectly acceptably. The sculpted looks do a good job of concealing how much space there is inside, with packaging aided by the bespoke electric platform. It’s the halfway house here, one for the interested and keen.

    The Audi is for electro-sceptics. And, by God, does it do a good job of convincing them they don’t need to be scared of the future. What is there to be worried about outside? The colour? Grey is quite challenging, isn’t it? And inside – well, the gearlever is a bit different, twisting fore and aft under a housing. That takes five seconds to figure out. And the new hollow centre console with its useful layered storage. How will you cope? The only thing that’s going to unsettle you about the e-tron is how quiet and smooth it is.

    Not just quiet and smooth. The quietest, smoothest electric car I’ve ever driven. It feels like a few grains of Woolacombe Bay sand might have been blown into the motors of the other two. In isolation, they’re lovely, of course, but the Audi is lovelier still. It’s the softness with which it pulls away, the perfectly calibrated throttle, the supple ride (the e-tron wears 20in wheels wrapped in plump rubber to the 22s of its rivals). It behaves how you want a family car to behave. Or maybe not. What it won’t do is drown out the back-seat arguments.

    Until you add small people it is serene, then. And it shows up flaws in the Tesla. Structural stiffness is the first and most obvious. You sense the body twist, feel shudders, hear the trim creak. If there were engine noise maybe it would be less obvious, but there isn’t, so you notice. And the ride is simply too firm. It’s been done to keep roll and heave in check, but the Model X thumps and bangs across Exmoor. On coarse surfaces, there’s tyre noise, and it reflects back from the giant windscreen, making the Model X that bit more hectic.

    The Tesla feels ponderous where the Audi manages to disguise its weight. Barring steering that’s not quite as accurate as the Jaguar’s, the Audi is very composed if you pile on a bit of speed. Against the stopwatch it’s the slowest here, but it’s still swift. It just doesn’t do the mind-bending this-shouldn’t-be-possible acceleration of the fastest Teslas. The 100D isn’t the super-quick one (that’s the P100D Ludicrous), but it’s still plenty fast enough at getting itself between corners that then pose it… issues. It’s a bit scrappy, really – you don’t get any sense of what the steering is up to, but a great deal of awareness of how much weight you’ve just tried to make change direction. And with no separation between load bay and seating area, stuff comes crashing through. A flask tumbles irritatingly around the flat floor of the rear cabin as we head along the B3223.

    1556608651708image.jpeg

    If you want to enjoy driving your electric car, have the Jaguar. It’s the crispest, the most accurate and rewarding. It even growls when you accelerate hard – Jag attempting to inject some roar into electricity, there. One-pedalling it cross-country is good fun, and you get the warm feeling engendered by motor retardation replenishing the batteries. It does in all of them, although in the Audi it’s not automatic – you pull a paddle like you’re downshifting, which actually gives you more control. In the others, you choose from two selectable levels deep in the menus. The Tesla and Jag provide enough retardation to slow even when the Exmoor gradients tip beyond 20 per cent.

    The I-Pace is lighter, which helps give it athleticism, and Jags have famously good suspension control and damping. This one’s no exception. It scythes through corners, never stumbles, shrugs off bumps, traction never in doubt – even if you use all the performance that the twin motors (one on each axle, same as the opposition) can deliver. There’s not much in it for sprinting between this and the Model X. The Audi is slightly more sluggish, but still fleet enough.

    "The Audi is the quietest, smoothest electric car I’ve ever driven"

    But speed and handling aren’t why you’re interested in making the switch to electric. Smoothness and silence and, maybe too, the promise of self-driving. Tesla’s tech is little different from anyone else’s – it’s the tolerances that make the difference. It’ll wait longer before telling you to put your hands back on the wheel, make earlier, more positive corrections and so on. The Jaguar seems short-sighted, like it’s walking with its head down, so obstacle avoidance and white line ricochets are more abrupt. But none of these systems drive well. They don’t see more than one car ahead, get spooked by cars in the next lane and panic brake. People will think your dog is driving.

    Now, economy and running costs, the crux of the matter. Audi reckons the e-tron will do 241 miles at 2.57 miles per kilowatt hour (mpkWh). The I-Pace claims 263 miles and 2.92mpkWh, while Tesla hasn’t yet switched to the new WLTP regs so reckons you’re good for 351 miles between stops. It won’t. It’ll do 200 miles. That’s what they’ll all do, in fact.

    Between these three, we covered over 1,600 miles, and they all achieved two miles per kWh overall. What does this mean? Well, let’s assume you only charge at home, paying 15p per kWh. That 15p will take you two miles; extrapolated, 10,000 miles a year will cost you £750. Or the equivalent of a regular petrol car doing 73.4mpg. Of course, costs will rise if you’re charging away from home. But it was cold and windy during our tests, and we drove spiritedly, so I reckon you’ll do better, average 2.5 maybe. It cost me £50.63 to drive the I-Pace to Devon and back, some 390 miles, not including being full at home when I left. But still, cheaper than diesel. A bit.

    But don’t worry about that. Worry about recharging. A diesel splash and dash takes five minutes and adds 400 miles of range. The kids barely notice. Now imagine you did what I did: arrive pre-dawn at a dank Bristol Park and Ride to discover the 43kW charger is only pushing out 7kW. So you drive on and have to face two hours waiting in a services. And then stop again further on. With kids. Pressure cooker, right? So you’ll need to plan well before you leave. Stop at Tiverton leisure centre for a swim perhaps. There’s something curiously heart-warming about your car charging while you’re otherwise occupied.

    And it turns out you don’t need to be daunted by charging. A bit of tech-savviness helps, as you need to set up accounts with providers on your phone, but then it’s simplicity: scan QR code or touch pay, and off you go. In two days, we learn so much about the UK’s charging infrastructure. And what we mainly learn is you don’t need to be too scared of it.

    The cars, then. If you’re intent on buying a premium electric car now, it has to be the Tesla. Is it the best car? No. But right now you can’t separate car from infrastructure, and between Superchargers and Destination chargers, Tesla has the best combination. The kids will certainly think it’s the coolest and most exciting, too. Going to be solo more of the time? The I-Pace. For a ground-up, first-time effort, it’s brilliant, handsome and good to drive. And then there’s the e-tron: super-smooth, silent, beautifully built. If you’re nervous about the switch to electric, driving an e-tron will put you right. But as I said at the start, they’re all great cars, as technically proficient and more efficient than their oil-burning equivalents. Getting home from Devon? Four hours and 18 minutes. That’s progress.

    Tesla Model X 100D
    Price: £80,200/£103,050
    Engine: twin e-motors, 100kWh battery, 417bhp, 487lb ft
    Transmission: 1spd, 4WD
    Performance: 0–62mph in 4.9secs, 155mph 
    Range: n/a mpkWh, 351 miles (NEDC)
    Our range: 1.99mpkWh, 189 miles
    Weight: 2459kg

    Audi e-tron 55 quattro
    Price: £70,805/£75,265
    Engine: twin e-motors, 95kWh battery, 402bhp, 490lb ft
    Transmission: 1spd, 4WD
    Performance: 0–62mph in 5.7secs, 124mph 
    Range: 2.57mpkWh, 241 miles (WLTP)
    Our range: 2.04mpkWh, 184 miles
    Weight: 2490kg

    Jaguar I-Pace EV400 SE
    Price: £74,445/£80,860
    Engine: twin e-motors, 90kWh battery, 394bhp, 513lb ft
    Transmission: 1spd, 4WD
    Performance: 0–62mph in 4.5secs, 124mph 
    Range: 2.92mpkWh, 263 miles (WLTP)
    Our range: 2.15mpkWh, 183 miles
    Weight: 2068kg

    Link:  https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/ev-test-audi-e-tron-vs-tesla-model-x-vs-jaguar-i-pace


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    hunterone:

    Hmm i thought Italy is nowadays also very strict about speeding !? 

    Italy is actually quite OK for sports car drivers as long as you don't exaggerate. Also, when the police stops you, you need to be very respectful. I got out of several "situations" without a ticket (I deserved one Smiley) just by talking to them. They are usually very nice if you drive a nice car and I am lucky that my wife speaks Italian almost fluently. Smiley

    Make no mistake though: Driving 100 in a 50 zone or driving over 200 kph on the Autostrada can cost you a lot...including your car, so... Smiley 

    Just be respectful and don't be too fast and you're good. Only exception may be the Guardia di Finanza. These guys are often badass and you shouldn't play around with them. It took me almost half and hour and the good words and language skills of my wife to talk them out of impounding(!) my car. In the end, they even gave me their "business card", just in case. Smiley 

    I am more scared of Austrian police to be honest...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Funny enough , in Europe , Italian Police is the only one that fines the Swiss cars if they do not have that ugly CH sticker at the back .  As most of us do not have it , when going to Italy people put it on or at least have one prepared in the glove compartment, as you will get stoped just for that !   . And you won't get out of that one .


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Gnil:

    Funny enough , in Europe , Italian Police is the only one that fines the Swiss cars if they do not have that ugly CH sticker at the back .  As most of us do not have it , when going to Italy people put it on or at least have one prepared in the glove compartment, as you will get stoped just for that !   . And you won't get out of that one .


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     

    North Italians love the Swiss almost as much as the Austrians... Smiley Smiley

    You know what I mean...

    Funny story: We drove in a small group of cars, among them two cars with Austrian license plates. Now guess who got stopped by Italian police? The two Austrian cars. I never really understood this whole Austria-Italy "thing" until someone in Riva del Garda explained it to me, Südtirol and all... Seems still to be a thing nowadays but a bit more subtle than decades ago.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


     
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