Crown

Leawood911:

Such funny stories. As I watch kids and dogs riding in the back of pick up trucks going down the highway. I’m certain doing that in the US is technically illegal as well but ...

Back in the days, I rode in a pickup truck from San Diego to LA airport with all the luggage and three other guys in the back because the cabin was occupied with the driver and a friend's aunt. What a drive, very windy (and hot) but I never was scared. Now I would never do that again. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Do you still have to submit Meldezettel in Switzerland every time you change your address (I had to when I lived there in early 80s and thought at the time how similar it was to Police State type living in commie countries- I came from Poland then)?

absent:

Do you still have to submit Meldezettel in Switzerland every time you change your address (I had to when I lived there in early 80s and thought at the time how similar it was to Police State type living in commie countries- I came from Poland then)?

This is valid basically in every EU country... You need to be "registered" where you live.

This has nothing to do with police states, this has something to do with security. 

I have a personal ID card with my address on it.

In the US, the country which has been victim of 9/11 there is no such thing, which is regrettable. 

Real ID is a first step into the right direction, people need to be able to ID themselves to police, authorities and so on.
 

I get that "I hate the government" thing but for the security and safety of everyone, personal ID cards are a must in every country on this planet.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Leawood911:

Such funny stories. As I watch kids and dogs riding in the back of pick up trucks going down the highway. I’m certain doing that in the US is technically illegal as well but ...

This is one of my dislikes of EU law (OK I know Switzerland isn't in the EU ) the EU insists there has to be a law and strict regulations for everything with a default position that you can't do anything unless it has been assessed and regulated whereas in the UK citizens have more freedom to do what they like and laws are only passed if they are deemed to be needed,  the "fitting rears seats to 911s" epitomizes this mindset well, as you all state above, in almost reverent tones, your countries will punish you for "fitting seats to the back of your 911s" it seems some of you seem to almost enjoy the officialdom's grip.

In the UK lots of us have fitted rear seats and belts to our GT cars in those cars which have all the metal and fittings in place to safely fit them, there are legitimate companies who will do this on your behalf and without disclaimers having to be signed. As long as your insurance company accepts the modification which most do there is no problem and of course why should there be a problem as the cars are constructed to have rear seats. 

--

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

2018 McLaren 720S 

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

bluelines:

It happened to me once. Due to not having a permanent residence permit at that time the license plates expired when my permit did. Little did I know. The police impounded the car on a public parking spot in Zürich, I had to get it transported home and then the fun started...

Due to not having valid license plates I had been driving illegally, the insurance would not cover so I had broken that law too, etc. All in all I had broken 4-5 laws. A hefty fine, a prison sentence (which I luckily did not have to serve) and two years in the criminal record. I got away with a light sentence since I had not done this on purpose, but rather through not being informed.

Doing such a modification with rear seats would invalidate the type registration of the car and hence I assume it will be right down the alley I went. Driving illegally and without insurance cover. On purpose.

The risk is small, but the impact possibly severe... 

Driving with illegal / no valid number plates is a serious offense as no insurance for third party . This is in a very different league .  Adding back seats on a car is not in the same, third party insurance is till covered    + as you point out, it has to start with something serious . If you stick to the law , chances the seats would be noticed are tiny . 

Don't you all now get paranoid about Swiss laws and feed the myth 

--

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS ( SOLD ) 

TB993tt:

Leawood911:

Such funny stories. As I watch kids and dogs riding in the back of pick up trucks going down the highway. I’m certain doing that in the US is technically illegal as well but ...

This is one of my dislikes of EU law (OK I know Switzerland isn't in the EU but it has a similar mindset on lots of things) the EU insists there has to be a law and strict regulations for everything with a default position that you can't do anything unless it has been assessed and regulated whereas in the UK citizens have more freedom to do what they like and laws are only passed if they are deemed to be needed,  the "fitting rears seats to 911s" epitomizes this mindset well, as you all state above, in almost reverent tones, your countries will punish you for "fitting seats to the back of your 911s" it seems some of you seem to almost enjoy the officialdom's grip.

In the UK lots of us have fitted rear seats and belts to our GT cars in those cars which have all the metal and fittings in place to safely fit them, there are legitimate companies who will do this on your behalf and without disclaimers having to be signed. As long as your insurance company accepts the modification which most do there is no problem and of course why should there be a problem as the cars are constructed to have rear seats. 

 

I would love to get more information about the conversion. I really don’t understand the big fuss about such a simple mod. Now picking the 4 way seats for my touring has an added benefit. 

Gnil

bluelines:

It happened to me once. Due to not having a permanent residence permit at that time the license plates expired when my permit did. Little did I know. The police impounded the car on a public parking spot in Zürich, I had to get it transported home and then the fun started...

Due to not having valid license plates I had been driving illegally, the insurance would not cover so I had broken that law too, etc. All in all I had broken 4-5 laws. A hefty fine, a prison sentence (which I luckily did not have to serve) and two years in the criminal record. I got away with a light sentence since I had not done this on purpose, but rather through not being informed.

Doing such a modification with rear seats would invalidate the type registration of the car and hence I assume it will be right down the alley I went. Driving illegally and without insurance cover. On purpose.

The risk is small, but the impact possibly severe... 

 

Driving with illegal / no valid number plates is a serious offense as no insurance for third party . This is in a very different league .  Adding back seats on a car is not in the same, third party insurance is till covered    + as you point out, it has to start with something serious . If you stick to the law , chances the seats would be noticed are tiny . 

If you keep the seats folded when no one is sitting which is most of the time, it will look like loading space and no one will bother to check.

Don't you all now get paranoid about Swiss laws and feed the myth 

Switzerland now especially to a foreigner is not like in the past. I remember in the 80s I spent 2 months in Zurich on a training course and prior to getting a stay permit for that short period I had to undergo a medical examination. The funny thing is that when I visited the doctor he said to me in surprise "But you are like us!". I don't know what he was expecting

From the time Switzerland agreed to become a part of the Schengen Agreement (a major step for a strict country) and a change of philosophy) by definition things are more relaxed.

--

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

Gnil:

Driving with illegal / no valid number plates is a serious offense as no insurance for third party . This is in a very different league .  Adding back seats on a car is not in the same, third party insurance is till covered    + as you point out, it has to start with something serious . If you stick to the law , chances the seats would be noticed are tiny 

If you add rear seats have you not violated the type registration? The GT3 is a 2 seater and not a 4 seater. Hence the vehicle registration document is not valid and I bet therefore the insurance not covered. At least as serious as wrong license plates 

They anyway passed a law a few years back that the party selling/installing non-approved car parts for use on public roads is doing it illegally (I believe it is the same in Germany too now) So any dealer would be in trouble too. That is why my dealer all of a sudden refused to make any non-OEM modifications  Not that I ever had such parts installed, but anyway... 

2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

bluelines:

Gnil:

Driving with illegal / no valid number plates is a serious offense as no insurance for third party . This is in a very different league .  Adding back seats on a car is not in the same, third party insurance is till covered    + as you point out, it has to start with something serious . If you stick to the law , chances the seats would be noticed are tiny 

If you add rear seats have you not violated the type registration? The GT3 is a 2 seater and not a 4 seater. Hence the vehicle registration document is not valid and I bet therefore the insurance not covered. At least as serious as wrong license plates 

They anyway passed a law a few years back that the party selling/installing non-approved car parts for use on public roads is doing it illegally (I believe it is the same in Germany too now) So any dealer would be in trouble too. That is why my dealer all of a sudden refused to make any non-OEM modifications  Not that I ever had such parts installed, but anyway... 

 The real sh.t rains down on you when they "catch" you, so most people aren't even aware of the poopoo they are in, until after it happens. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Just came back from Italy (short family trip to Lake Garda) and had some issues with the car (reported them in detail in the first post in this thread) but luckily, they were related to fuel quality, thank god.

Car has now 6500 km and runs amazingly well (performance). in the 100 to 200 kph and 250 kph to 306 (speed limiter) speed range, there aren't many cars on this planet able to keep up. Amazing performance. 

Fuel consumption was around 16 liters / 100 km during this trip (I was never going over 200 kph but drove pretty much full throttle most of the time), so if you keep the car under speeds of 200-220 kph, the consumption is "acceptable". Full throttle on the Autobahn (280-306 kph most of the time) costs you around 26 liters / 100 km. Ouch.

Oil consumption is still basically zero, also no issues with the car (other than that OBD lamp coming on a couple of times, a software update will be available for this around August but it never happened again).

Also got used to driving around (fully loaded) with a 3.5 bar front and 3.4 bar rear tire pressure (when it is hot outside, it is more like 3.8 and 3.6). Was pretty interesting in the beginning, to say at least. 

Best family car I had so far I have to admit, kids love it, wife started to like it more than she thought initially and she is happy I didn't take a SUV and overall, I do not regret getting it at all. Which is a good thing.  Usually, when I don't like a car 100%, I have some doubts, even from the beginning.

Is it a sportscar? No way. Is it the best family car one can wish for if one is into sportscars but needs a family car? Definitely yes. I would take the estate (station wagon) though if I'd need more luggage room. I had six(!) suitcases in the trunk, two larger ones, two midsized and two cabin trolleys but it was barely enough for us four for five days (OK, my wife had 9 pairs of shoes with her though  and she bought another two in Italy).

Sorry, pics are not that spectacular but we just didn't have time...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Car looks stunning RC - Congratulations. 

I'm a huge fan of the E63 - the look the roar, it has the look, the power, the comfort, it has bascially everything a car needs. You say its not a sports car, I think there are many sports cars out there which are not being able to compete with. Especially your "S" has amazing values. But I get your point of "not being a sports car" ;)

Enjoy it - its fantastic!

Lars997:

Car looks stunning RC - Congratulations. 

I'm a huge fan of the E63 - the look the roar, it has the look, the power, the comfort, it has bascially everything a car needs. You say its not a sports car, I think there are many sports cars out there which are not being able to compete with. Especially your "S" has amazing values. But I get your point of "not being a sports car" ;)

Enjoy it - its fantastic!

Thank you. Unfortunately there are some minor annoying issues I described in the first post (updated all the time...check out the lower part with the updates and dates).

The E63S is the perfect family car for me and if you'd ask if what I would replace it with if I'd give it away, my answer would be: I don't have a clue. The Panamera Turbo S with similar performance but worse sound is too expensive. The new M5 is great but I'm not a fan of the blunt look (I hate the interior) and sound. A powerful SUV? Not even close in performance and/or driving dynamics, even my wife is happy I didn't choose a SUV anymore.

I was skeptical at first because I already had a E55 once and I hated it but the E63S has AWD and it is a completely different beast. I would be 100% in love with this car if there weren't these small issues I mentioned in my updated first post. These small issues are annoying. The car never broke down but many small annoying issues can easily grow to a bigger issue. The car is in the repair shop now and I hope they are going to find a fix. If the car runs fine, I couldn't be happier with it, which surprises myself. 

I would always take the Edition 1 again because it makes the car look different, not only from the outside but especially from the inside. I had a couple of Italians admire the car during our stay in Italy, one was an interior designer for a larger hotel chain and his exact words were: I couldn't imagine to see something so amazing from Mercedes, I always thought they can only do boring and "bieder" (he was talking in German, "bieder" means staid). Quite a compliment. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Haven't read all pages in this review, but understand from recent (Aug '18) threads on MB World about new 2018 E63S AMG having CEL lights that won't go away, resulting in limp modes & stumbling etc etc, prompting lemon law actions & factory buy backs cuz Mercedes cannot remedy. They're trying, but still creating $125K customer disappointments.

I have considered the wagon, but soured completely now.

--

2015 Jet Black TT

NSXER:

Haven't read all pages in this review, but understand from recent (Aug '18) threads on MB World about new 2018 E63S AMG having CEL lights that won't go away, resulting in limp modes & stumbling etc etc, prompting lemon law actions & factory buy backs cuz Mercedes cannot remedy. They're trying, but still creating $125K customer disappointments.

I have considered the wagon, but soured completely now.

 I updated my first post in this thread again and again, you should re-read it.

The truth is: I never remained "stuck" on the road with the car, so it is reliable but there are some issues which cannot be discussed away. When the car runs fine, it is an amazing car and a beast. When there are issues, it is annoying.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Owned 3 Mercedes vehicles total - 300E, 400E & G500 (2002)....All had electrical issues covered under warranty, but disappointing quality. Started buying Acura and Toyota SUV for daily drivers and dogs. -0- problems.

This is my 5th Land Cruiser (2015)...old school but solid.

--

2015 Jet Black TT

Glad you enjoy your Toyota, very reliable indeed but not everyone's cup of tea, the boredom of driving cars like that would kill me.

There is no exclusivity for reliability, I had over 20 different MBs (mostly AMG) in the last 20 years or so and had serious problems only once (replaced the car with another and problem solved).

My brother bought the hype of a Lexus and kept driving inferior loaners as his LS430 was in service constantly.

With social media today, any problem with a new car is mostly blown out of proportion as pissed off customers (a tiny minority of owners) spout to entire World their unhappiness while folks who enjoy theirs usually keep quiet about it.

Hey.....I liked what I saw in the AMG, but have better time wasters v waiting in service dept lounges or driving loaners.  I know all cars can have problems, but some brands have more than others.

 991TT has been bulletproof

--

2015 Jet Black TT

absent:

Glad you enjoy your Toyota, very reliable indeed but not everyone's cup of tea, the boredom of driving cars like that would kill me.

There is no exclusivity for reliability, I had over 20 different MBs (mostly AMG) in the last 20 years or so and had serious problems only once (replaced the car with another and problem solved).

My brother bought the hype of a Lexus and kept driving inferior loaners as his LS430 was in service constantly.

With social media today, any problem with a new car is mostly blown out of proportion as pissed off customers (a tiny minority of owners) spout to entire World their unhappiness while folks who enjoy theirs usually keep quiet about it.

I know people who constantly had issues with their Porsches but I never really did, especially not during the past couple of years, so...  

I am really happy with my E63S AMG...when it runs as it should. So far, it hasn't let me down but those little quirks make me suffer. Quality-wise (interior, etc.), the car is really good, no complaints here but what would have been the alternative anyway? BMW M5? Panamera Turbo S? Not many choices here I'm afraid.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

Porsche pumping out all those GT cars in July isn’t encouraging from a quality standpoint. I expect we will hear about many  issues.

Being adventurous can be risky but routine is lethal.

nberry:

Porsche pumping out all those GT cars in July isn’t encouraging from a quality standpoint. I expect we will hear about many  issues.

I would be worried about supplier quality issues, not necessarily Porsche issues. They just played with production quotas of certain models but they didn't really make much more cars (to my knowledge). So if the supplier quality is/was OK, the cars will be as well.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

I know good news travels fast & the opposite even faster......

More than one owner makes it more notable for me:

https://mbworld.org/forums/w213-amg/712708-venting-cel-dealer-unhelpful-amg-unresponsive.html

2015 Jet Black TT

NSXER:

I know good news travels fast & the opposite even faster......

More than one owner makes it more notable for me:

https://mbworld.org/forums/w213-amg/712708-venting-cel-dealer-unhelpful-amg-unresponsive.html

Actually, AMG claims that there is going to be a software update in August (I assume end of August or September) to fix all OBD light/cylinder misfiring issues related to software issues/bugs (which apparently are many).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

absent:

Glad you enjoy your Toyota, very reliable indeed but not everyone's cup of tea, the boredom of driving cars like that would kill me.

There is no exclusivity for reliability, I had over 20 different MBs (mostly AMG) in the last 20 years or so and had serious problems only once (replaced the car with another and problem solved).

My brother bought the hype of a Lexus and kept driving inferior loaners as his LS430 was in service constantly.

With social media today, any problem with a new car is mostly blown out of proportion as pissed off customers (a tiny minority of owners) spout to entire World their unhappiness while folks who enjoy theirs usually keep quiet about it.

I know people who constantly had issues with their Porsches but I never really did, especially not during the past couple of years, so...  

I am really happy with my E63S AMG...when it runs as it should. So far, it hasn't let me down but those little quirks make me suffer. Quality-wise (interior, etc.), the car is really good, no complaints here but what would have been the alternative anyway? BMW M5? Panamera Turbo S? Not many choices here I'm afraid.

M5 Competition is a very good alternative to E63, better and worse then it in some regards but overall an equal proposition.

More attractive in US because of very attractive lease rates the MB does not offer.

Panamera Turbo S is a little better car as a complete package but not at almost twice the price (US).

E63 is difficult to find in inventory, M5 a bit easier while Porsches are in abundance at every dealer.

Hey RC, I was just browsing engine tuning options and came across this vid by Racechip of their development, there are some nice visuals from their Maha dyno before and after tuning.

This is the before, they made the mistake of stating the P-norm but new turbo motors should be P-mot as they do not need a correction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d2YIkxkvrY

--

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

2018 McLaren 720S 

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

My car has over 7600 km now, last 100-200 kph measurement (Dragy and Track Pace) showed 7.10 seconds, so I guess there is no need to tune my car. From 250-300 kph, the performance is even more insane.

This car never has 612 hp, more like 660-670 hp.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

They had three people in the car for their acceleration measurements... I am a bit puzzled why they stopped the dyno run at 6000rpm, Merc quote maximum power from 5750 to 6500rpm that is a nice plateau of 615PS and coupled with the auto it is easy to see how it performs like it has 660/670hp - total beast  

997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

2018 McLaren 720S 

993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

Possible 670hp,,, jeeps, MB has really come on leaps and bounds..

i have them all chasing me, along with M’s. Come the twisties, then I leave them for dead....

Yes, Gnil, throt is a bad ass......

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

991 GT3.2 pick up April/May 2018. ( Hairy Chest Spec ).

Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Exclusive pick up June 2013. ( Shit Box )

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.

RC:

My car has over 7600 km now, last 100-200 kph measurement (Dragy and Track Pace) showed 7.10 seconds, so I guess there is no need to tune my car. From 250-300 kph, the performance is even more insane.

This car never has 612 hp, more like 660-670 hp.

All your cars seem to be the fastest  I remember reading similar posts about your 991 GTS and R8...

2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

bluelines:

RC:

My car has over 7600 km now, last 100-200 kph measurement (Dragy and Track Pace) showed 7.10 seconds, so I guess there is no need to tune my car. From 250-300 kph, the performance is even more insane.

This car never has 612 hp, more like 660-670 hp.

All your cars seem to be the fastest  I remember reading similar posts about your 991 GTS and R8...

Interesting!

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport

bluelines:

RC:

My car has over 7600 km now, last 100-200 kph measurement (Dragy and Track Pace) showed 7.10 seconds, so I guess there is no need to tune my car. From 250-300 kph, the performance is even more insane.

This car never has 612 hp, more like 660-670 hp.

All your cars seem to be the fastest  I remember reading similar posts about your 991 GTS and R8...

..

Your pushing it now. ....

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

991 GT3.2 pick up April/May 2018. ( Hairy Chest Spec ).

Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Exclusive pick up June 2013. ( Shit Box )

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.