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    PDCC

    I did some homework today on the PDCC and I thought I might share it with you guys.

    PDCC components are:

    1 - an electronic control unit (in front of the car);
    2 & 8 - two valve blocks, one in front of the car and one in the rear;
    3 & 6 & 12 - one hydraulic pump with a hydraulic reservoir and one oil/water heat exchanger (all three in the rear of the car);
    4 & 7 - two special designed anti-roll bars (one front-axle bar and one rear-axle bar);
    5 & 10 - four actuators, two per each axle or one per each corner of the car (instead of connecting link/suspension/stabiliser on vehicles without PDCC)

    9 is the PASM switch. 11 is a T-piece. Also pipes, liquid, joints, etc.

    Heavy system for a sport car if you ask me. I estimate about 20kg in parts and the heavier ones are in the rear :(

    I decided not to go for it.


     


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: PDCC

    And an additional thing to go wrong.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: PDCC

    PDCC.JPG


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: PDCC

    Especially over the period of 4-5 years... (to go wrong)


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: PDCC

    Haven´t driven a PDCC-equipped 991 yet but I still believe that the Panamera and especially the Cayenne benefit much more from the system than those sportscar variants. Especially given the quality of your roads, or better what you´ve documented so far, I am not sure if it is worth the expense. The question is, apart from the technical aspect, if you like the feel of the system. Is there any chance of testing a car nearby for you?


    Re: PDCC

    If possible I would try a PDCC-equipped 911 before dismissing it.

    Is it the same system, in terms of design and functionality, as on the MP4-12C?


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: PDCC

    I am not a fan of PDCC on sportscars but as regards the quality of roads, according to Porsche PDCC improves the compliance of the suspension on bad roads. Because even on the straights the actuators work according to the road surface irregularities thus calming the ride.

    This is the theory at least.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: PDCC

    There are some cases of early 991 with sudden oversteer due to Active Mounts malfunction. I am not a big fan of the latest driving features since they could be a source of problems in the future.

    --

    1987 911 Carrera 3.2 - 2012 Cayenne Diesel - 2010 Abarth 500 - 1995 BMW318ti


    Re: PDCC

    bluelines:

    Is it the same system, in terms of design and functionality, as on the MP4-12C?


    No, it´s different. McLaren´s system dismisses the regular rollbars and counteracts bodyroll by pressure adjustments on the hydraulic system. Porsche´s system uses active roll bars, so the regular system is still onboard but supported by the hydraulic actuators. The interesting thing is that ride comfort seems to be better with PDCC than without, given similar suspension spec.


    Re: PDCC

    It fascinates me that so many comments against PDCC are being made from people who have not tried out the system. Try it out yourself or with someone who can truly demonstrate it and then judge. All this stuff about its weight and more things to go wrong etc is simply hearsay and really cannot be taken seriously. Sure it may turn out to be utter rubbish but please remain objective and open minded.

    I have ordered it and am looking forward to experiencing it for myself.


    --
    Sept Build: '13 991S - Plat/Silver-PDK-PDCC-PASM-SC-PSE-CS whl/plat

    Re: PDCC

    Mikla:

    ..... I am not a big fan of the latest driving features since they could be a source of problems in the future.

    --

    1987 911 Carrera 3.2 - 2012 Cayenne Diesel - 2010 Abarth 500 - 1995 BMW318ti

     

    Hehehe...... this comment cracks me up! I can understand you posting the first sentence but why post the above?

    So I guess no ceramic brakes, pasm, pdk, dynamic engine mounts, even pdls etc! I can understand why you stick to your '87 911. No problems with that one...perfect! 

    No disrespect but comments like yours can sometimes negate the validity of what may be useful information. Smiley


    --
    Sept Build: '13 991S - Plat/Silver-PDK-PDCC-PASM-SC-PSE-CS whl/plat


    Re: PDCC

    The '87 911 really separates the men from the boys. I had a late 911 SC, which is very similar to the Carrera of '87 in layout and technology and it really needed skill, concentration and nerve to drive fast. And a great degree of satisfaction was derived after each journey.

    i take modern technology for granted nowadays and I drive a PDK car but the PDCC on a 911 is a step too far IMO. It can make you faster on a timed course but in  a sportscar there must still be some things that are not done for you. I drove Cayenne and Panamera and BMW 7 with the same/similar system and on those huge cars it helps. A bit of roll is good in a sportscar, however. It enhances the feel and makes the car more alive and interactive especially in a series of  S bends.

    Besides the negatives of  weight gain and additional components, Porsche charge a huge amount for their PDCC system.

    Another thought is that Porsche should have made it switchable to suit the driver's mood.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: PDCC

    Bravo for ordering and I wish you like it. However, some of us, even without having the chance of testing a C2S PDCC car, are less than impressed with a system that helps a Porsche PROFESSIONAL racing driver cut only 4 seconds out of a 7:53 min Nurgburgring lap time (991 C2S Nring lap time is 7:40). And that's a fact according to Porsche, not an impression of us.


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: PDCC

    Yes, all technological improvements should be banned and the engine should be air-cooled in the 991.2 

    I don't get why people are against progression and have a mistrust in the engineers making it happen. Even without having tried new technological developments and automotive features people suddenly become "experts".

    I don't know where you got those numbers from, but 4 seconds for a professional driver probably means 8-12 seconds for a non-professional driver. That sounds impressive to me.

    There are plenty of older generation 911 models on the market to fit everyones needs and desires.

     


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: PDCC

    I am not against progression. I love other systems and I ordered them. Not this one though.

    I didn't claim I am an expert. Where that came from???!!!

    And 4s out of 473s... I don't know... It leaves me cold...

    Porsche said that the new Nring lap time for the 991C2S is 7:40, 13s better than the previous model. The car had PDK, Sport Chrono, PDCC and Sport PASM. They say the PDCC is responsible for 4 sec of the 13s shaved from the lap time.


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: PDCC

    Pentium:

    I did some homework today on the PDCC and I thought I might share it with you guys.

    PDCC components are:

    1 - an electronic control unit (in front of the car);
    2 & 8 - two valve blocks, one in front of the car and one in the rear;
    3 & 6 & 12 - one hydraulic pump with a hydraulic reservoir and one oil/water heat exchanger (all three in the rear of the car);
    4 & 7 - two special designed anti-roll bars (one front-axle bar and one rear-axle bar);
    5 & 10 - four actuators, two per each axle or one per each corner of the car (instead of connecting link/suspension/stabiliser on vehicles without PDCC)

    9 is the PASM switch. 11 is a T-piece. Also pipes, liquid, joints, etc.

    Heavy system for a sport car if you ask me. I estimate about 20kg in parts and the heavier ones are in the rear :(

    I decided not to go for it.


     


    --

    There is no try. Just do.

    PDCC is a must-have option but you do what you want. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: PDCC

    Also it's about what experience you want to have with your 911. I am not interested in driving it like it is on rails. I want emotion from such a car. I want the car to feel alive not like a robot. I have no problem ordering an active anti-roll bars system on a 5series, Cayenne, Panamera, etc because those are big and heavy vehicles. From a 911 I personally expect a LOT of feedback on steering, suspension, tires, etc.

    And they started to mute the feedback more and more with electrical steering, PASM, engine mounts, PDCC, PDK, etc.


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: PDCC

    bluelines:

    Yes, all technological improvements should be banned and the engine should be air-cooled in the 991.2 

    I don't get why people are against progression and have a mistrust in the engineers making it happen. Even without having tried new technological developments and automotive features people suddenly become "experts".

    I don't know where you got those numbers from, but 4 seconds for a professional driver probably means 8-12 seconds for a non-professional driver. That sounds impressive to me.

    There are plenty of older generation 911 models on the market to fit everyones needs and desires.

     

    Driving the Panamera Turbo S for some while now, a 2 ton dinosaur, I can assure you that I love progress and would probably go for (almost) everything which enhances performance. Without PDCC, the Panamera wouldn't be and/or feel that agile, PDCC is actually responsible for that 911 feel. I know that you can't compare the Panamera to the 991 but it is amazing how technology can actually change a car's characteristics. I can't say I love the sudden switch from comfortable limousine to sportscar, it feels a little bit artificial (especially regarding the steering) but the results are fantastic and this is what counts most.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: PDCC

    Again, I fully agree with Christian. IMHO PDCC/-20mm is a must option for 991S. Very,very interesting how many current 997.2 owners are talking here against most new drive dynamics option for991. I am personally thinking about getting 991S and if I do so it will be equipped with X51, PDDC/-20mm, 20" sport techno wheels painted in exterior color, sport design exterior package, all drive dynamics option included. Exterior wold be Agathe Grey and interior as well. Sport seats plus and paddle shift steering wheel.

    Re: PDCC

    Speaking of painted wheels: Porsche apparently has some issues here, delivery times can raise up to 3 months and/or they don't accept orders with painted wheels. It probably depends on the region you order the car but right now, they have issues with painted wheels and white (uni) as a color. angry


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: PDCC

    Pentium:

    Also it's about what experience you want to have with your 911. I am not interested in driving it like it is on rails. I want emotion from such a car. I want the car to feel alive not like a robot. I have no problem ordering an active anti-roll bars system on a 5series, Cayenne, Panamera, etc because those are big and heavy vehicles. From a 911 I personally expect a LOT of feedback on steering, suspension, tires, etc.

    And they started to mute the feedback more and more with electrical steering, PASM, engine mounts, PDCC, PDK, etc.

    Given this, is the 991 the right car for you? 


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: PDCC

    KresoF1:
    Again, I fully agree with Christian. IMHO PDCC/-20mm is a must option for 991S. Very,very interesting how many current 997.2 owners are talking here against most new drive dynamics option for991.

    +1

    I would not order one without either. Then I might as well stick to a 997.2.

     

     


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: PDCC

    RC:

    Speaking of painted wheels: Porsche apparently has some issues here, delivery times can raise up to 3 months and/or they don't accept orders with painted wheels. It probably depends on the region you order the car but right now, they have issues with painted wheels and white (uni) as a color. angry

     notice from Porsche GB to UK dealers on 7 August 12:

     “Due to shortages and quality problems at suppliers please be informed that Germany have blocked Electric Slide/Tilt Sunroof (653) and also Painted wheels in exterior colour CRX, XD9 and XDA for new orders.”


    Re: PDCC

    PDCC, or something similar, is a great solution for off-road vehicles.  There was a thread elsewhere on RT discussing how dangerous the on-road behavior of a Jeep was.  The most capable off-road vehicles, like Jeeps and Land Rovers, have ultra compliant suspensions to maximize wheel articulation.  This is critical in keeping all four wheels in contact with the ground on uneven terrain.  But the ultra compliant suspension (with a very weak, small diameter anti-roll bar) results in severe body roll in even moderate speed on-road turns.  The Moose Avoidance maneuver is sometimes downright dangerous in these vehicles.  Some kind of variable anti-roll bar, like PDCC, is the perfect solution to this.

    kiss


    Re: PDCC

    GM Austin:

    PDCC, or something similar, is a great solution for off-road vehicles.  There was a thread elsewhere on RT discussing how dangerous the on-road behavior of a Jeep was.  The most capable off-road vehicles, like Jeeps and Land Rovers, have ultra compliant suspensions to maximize wheel articulation.  This is critical in keeping all four wheels in contact with the ground on uneven terrain.  But the ultra compliant suspension (with a very weak, small diameter anti-roll bar) results in severe body roll in even moderate speed on-road turns.  The Moose Avoidance maneuver is sometimes downright dangerous in these vehicles.  Some kind of variable anti-roll bar, like PDCC, is the perfect solution to this.

    kiss

    True. Whoever drove (or owns) a Cayenne can confirm that PDCC does wonders on the chassis setup and drive feel.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: PDCC

    Haku:

    It fascinates me that so many comments against PDCC are being made from people who have not tried out the system. Try it out yourself or with someone who can truly demonstrate it and then judge. All this stuff about its weight and more things to go wrong etc is simply hearsay and really cannot be taken seriously. Sure it may turn out to be utter rubbish but please remain objective and open minded.

    I have ordered it and am looking forward to experiencing it for myself.


    So, if I understand you correctly you haven´t driven a car equipped with PDCC so far? First of all, Porsche is still a comparatively small manufacturer and, even if it isn´t as significant as under Wiedeking´s regime, I still see huge advancements between a technology´s debut and its second generation in the upcoming model or facelift. This was the case with PCCB, as with PASM, as with PDK and I am fairly certain that it will be similar with PDCC. I am, for example, a huge fan of PDK but those puddles as well as some shifting patterns on the 997 would keep me from ordering this if I want to keep the car for a prolonged period of time. Judging by your description, you change cars every odd year and in this case the PDCC might be a reasonable option. Even if you strongly dislike it, it won´t be as intrusive that you would refrain from driving the car. From what I understood so far, Pentium is going to keep his car for a longer period of time and, assumedly, does not live as close as some other members to a Porsche dealership. 

    Nonetheless, I don´t think that the decision for or against PDCC is that clear. If it would be, we wouldn´t hold these debates, would we? So in that sense, please understand that some of us are debating about this subject as it is not crystal clear. I personally would know what kind of gearbox I´d order on the 991, on the 997 not so much. In any way, the 997 and 991 are sufficiently fast in my personal opinion for public streets. That´s where I see the focus of these cars for me. One can scare the sh*t out of people driving at 7 / 10s with those cars, so what do I need an additional feature for on the street? I would be more inclined to get some proper tire option since I am not entirely convinced of the current Pirelli model. This does not mean that I am against PDCC, just not entirely convinced. Something that is not sufficiently in focus in this discussion is the added comfort the system is supposed to provide. That is something I´d find even more interesting than those four seconds on the Ring.

    Smiley


    Re: PDCC

    bluelines:

    Yes, all technological improvements should be banned and the engine should be air-cooled in the 991.2 

    I don't get why people are against progression and have a mistrust in the engineers making it happen. Even without having tried new technological developments and automotive features people suddenly become "experts".

    I don't know where you got those numbers from, but 4 seconds for a professional driver probably means 8-12 seconds for a non-professional driver. That sounds impressive to me.


    It is not mistrust, Bluelines, rather the question of effort and outcome. I see this as a healthy debate, not a dismissal of modern technology. If you consider that the 997.1 could be ordered with -20mm suspension and LSD, and that the only system affecting handling was PSM, the character of the car has radically changed with the 991 as you have so many additional factors influencing the character of the car... PDCC, PASM, PTV and that adaptive power steering. I don´t know about others but I am very sensitive to behaviour changes on a car, I´d like the car to behave in a similiar fashion every time I make a maneuver. Technology such as electronic engine management, power steering or PSM do not alter the character of the car, they just make it easier or better to drive but they follow a defined and repeated pattern. 

    I sometimes experience some odd behaviour on PDK that is not necessarily threatening but highly irritating. For example, entering the Autobahn on the onramp, one might trundle along behind a line of cars in second gear, only to fully accelerate a few seconds later. PDK seems to anticipate that I´d downshift any moment and seems to pre-select first gear instead of third. That results in a surprising pause at redline when the gearbox decides to re-select the gears... something that is of course a rare occurrence but irritating nonetheless. So far, those technological components are limited and isolated by itself, you have individual systems for gearbox, suspension, traction management... I basically keep raising the question how much those combined systems, in this case PDCC and PASM, can alter the handling of the car... Smiley


    Re: PDCC

    KresoF1:
    Again, I fully agree with Christian. IMHO PDCC/-20mm is a must option for 991S. Very,very interesting how many current 997.2 owners are talking here against most new drive dynamics option for 991. I am personally thinking about getting 991S and if I do so it will be equipped with X51, PDDC/-20mm, 20" sport techno wheels painted in exterior color, sport design exterior package, all drive dynamics option included. Exterior wold be Agathe Grey and interior as well. Sport seats plus and paddle shift steering wheel.


    Guess that´s a similar debate as PDK vs. manual. It depends what you are looking for. The car definitely is faster with PDCC, obviously more comfortable, possibly more balanced. Is it easier to handle? That is something I would like to know...

    If one is looking for the fastest and most versatile 991, there seems to be only one choice. 


    Re: PDCC

    Ferdie:

     In any way, the 997 and 991 are sufficiently fast in my personal opinion for public streets. That´s where I see the focus of these cars for me. One can scare the sh*t out of people driving at 7 / 10s with those cars, so what do I need an additional feature for on the street? 

    What you say is very correct about public road driving. Furthermore, the chassis of the 991 is so much improved that I would be happy without PASM and 19" wheels, if this configuration was available on the S.

    IMO, PDCC is where the law of diminishing returns starts to operate on a 911 (as opposed to a Cayenne or Panamera)  taking into account the additional cost too.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: PDCC

    https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/harrismonkey/status/179918967589179395

    Interesting... Chris Harris twitter: "Hmmm. Personally wouldn't have Power steering plus (£178) or PDCC (£2185). 991 is a great everyday car though. So much more refined than 997

     


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


     
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