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    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

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    Porsche sales totaled 2,355 vehicles in Sept., 29 cars short of the figure for the same month last year. Still, year-to-date sales of 23,332 vehicles is an increase of 14 percent

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    OAB said:
    I don't believe that they tested a 997S. The numbers sound more like a 996TTS.



    Please refer to pages 91 thru 94 of the November 2004 issue of Car and Driver magazine. They tested a speed yellow Porsche 911 Carrera S with a "price as tested" of $85,910. I think someone even scanned the article for this board.

    Other performance figures from the article:
    1/4 mile: 12.6 sec @ 112 MPH
    Breaking: 70-0 MPH @ 154 ft
    Handling: Roadholding 300-ft dia skidpad .97g

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    PStotts said:
    Quote:
    OAB said:
    I don't believe that they tested a 997S. The numbers sound more like a 996TTS.



    Please refer to pages 91 thru 94 of the November 2004 issue of Car and Driver magazine. They tested a speed yellow Porsche 911 Carrera S with a "price as tested" of $85,910. I think someone even scanned the article for this board.

    Other performance figures from the article:
    1/4 mile: 12.6 sec @ 112 MPH
    Breaking: 70-0 MPH @ 154 ft
    Handling: Roadholding 300-ft dia skidpad .97g



    It is generally agreed by everyone including Porsche that the 996 TT outperforms the Boxster/911 S. Yet the numbers you cite show numbers that the 996 TT can only dream about. Something is wrong with the numbers.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Ferdie, I'm very serious about it because Porsche is serious about it. The mentioned cars are the targeted competitor group, believe it or not.



    For those who are considering or bought 996/997 (non-turbo, not GT3), just wonder how many people are considering or bought SL500, 6-series or Maserati Coupe as an alternative? I think there should be, but really a competitor group?

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    [It is generally agreed by everyone including Porsche that the 996 TT outperforms the Boxster/911 S. Yet the numbers you cite show numbers that the 996 TT can only dream about. Something is wrong with the numbers.



    Here is what the article said about their testing method. "Even with the rear axle trampling violently almost all the way through first gear, the Carrera S could be horse-whipped to a 4.1 second 60 mph run and a 12.6 second quarter mile at 112 mph, slightly quicker than the slightly lighter 400 hp C6 Corvette (C/D September 2004). The old 911 GT3 with 380 horses was but a 10th quicker to 60 and the mighty 415 hp Turbo just 0.2 second. Nominally shorter ratios in the Carrera S's revamped six-spped manual give it extra spurt-ability, but don't try clutch drops with a car you plan to keep."

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    PStotts said:
    [It is generally agreed by everyone including Porsche that the 996 TT outperforms the Boxster/911 S. Yet the numbers you cite show numbers that the 996 TT can only dream about. Something is wrong with the numbers.



    Here is what the article said about their testing method. "Even with the rear axle trampling violently almost all the way through first gear, the Carrera S could be horse-whipped to a 4.1 second 60 mph run and a 12.6 second quarter mile at 112 mph, slightly quicker than the slightly lighter 400 hp C6 Corvette (C/D September 2004). The old 911 GT3 with 380 horses was but a 10th quicker to 60 and the mighty 415 hp Turbo just 0.2 second. Nominally shorter ratios in the Carrera S's revamped six-spped manual give it extra spurt-ability, but don't try clutch drops with a car you plan to keep."



    FYI, Autocar the British magazine had much higher numbers for the Boxster/911S.
    0-60 4.6-8
    0-100 10.8
    1/4 mile 13.2

    C&D is known for its unrealistic numbers. The 996 TT would make mince meat of the Boxster/911 S. Be realistic!

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    OK. Im going to call Porsche tomorrow and demand to have this particular engine in my 997S. I guess RC would also love one of these.

    These numbers don't make sense. I don't think that anybody on this board would be able to repeat these numbers in his personal and standard 997S with 355hp (except may be down a ski-slope)

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    C&D is notoriously hard on their test cars, but their numbers are verifiable. Just don't try side-stepping your clutch at 5000RPM like C&D does too often.....

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    PStotts said:
    [It is generally agreed by everyone including Porsche that the 996 TT outperforms the Boxster/911 S. Yet the numbers you cite show numbers that the 996 TT can only dream about. Something is wrong with the numbers.



    Here is what the article said about their testing method. "Even with the rear axle trampling violently almost all the way through first gear, the Carrera S could be horse-whipped to a 4.1 second 60 mph run and a 12.6 second quarter mile at 112 mph, slightly quicker than the slightly lighter 400 hp C6 Corvette (C/D September 2004). The old 911 GT3 with 380 horses was but a 10th quicker to 60 and the mighty 415 hp Turbo just 0.2 second. Nominally shorter ratios in the Carrera S's revamped six-spped manual give it extra spurt-ability, but don't try clutch drops with a car you plan to keep."



    FYI, Autocar the British magazine had much higher numbers for the Boxster/911S.
    0-60 4.6-8
    0-100 10.8
    1/4 mile 13.2

    C&D is known for its unrealistic numbers. The 996 TT would make mince meat of the Boxster/911 S. Be realistic!



    All things being equal, their "unrealistic numbers" should apply to all cars tested by them. I am simply quoting a magazine review. All the numbers I quoted came from the same magazine. I didn't compare "unrealistic" numbers from one magazine with another magazine.

    I am curious, what is a Boxster/911S? They tested the 911 only. I didn't see any reference to the Boxster.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    PStotts said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    PStotts said:
    [It is generally agreed by everyone including Porsche that the 996 TT outperforms the Boxster/911 S. Yet the numbers you cite show numbers that the 996 TT can only dream about. Something is wrong with the numbers.



    Here is what the article said about their testing method. "Even with the rear axle trampling violently almost all the way through first gear, the Carrera S could be horse-whipped to a 4.1 second 60 mph run and a 12.6 second quarter mile at 112 mph, slightly quicker than the slightly lighter 400 hp C6 Corvette (C/D September 2004). The old 911 GT3 with 380 horses was but a 10th quicker to 60 and the mighty 415 hp Turbo just 0.2 second. Nominally shorter ratios in the Carrera S's revamped six-spped manual give it extra spurt-ability, but don't try clutch drops with a car you plan to keep."



    FYI, Autocar the British magazine had much higher numbers for the Boxster/911S.
    0-60 4.6-8
    0-100 10.8
    1/4 mile 13.2

    C&D is known for its unrealistic numbers. The 996 TT would make mince meat of the Boxster/911 S. Be realistic!



    All things being equal, their "unrealistic numbers" should apply to all cars tested by them. I am simply quoting a magazine review. All the numbers I quoted came from the same magazine. I didn't compare "unrealistic" numbers from one magazine with another magazine.

    I am curious, what is a Boxster/911S? They tested the 911 only. I didn't see any reference to the Boxster.



    Since over 1/3 of the Boxster and 997 share parts it is only fair that the cars be designated accurately. The 997 is a combination of Boxster and 911.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....





    Since over 1/3 of the Boxster and 997 share parts it is only fair that the cars be designated accurately. The 997 is a combination of Boxster and 911.



    Getting a little testy since the lowly VW/Boxster/Porsche 911S can keep up with your Fiat/Ferrari (that costs twice as much)?

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    iia said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Ferdie, I'm very serious about it because Porsche is serious about it. The mentioned cars are the targeted competitor group, believe it or not.



    For those who are considering or bought 996/997 (non-turbo, not GT3), just wonder how many people are considering or bought SL500, 6-series or Maserati Coupe as an alternative? I think there should be, but really a competitor group?



    I agonized for a couple months on whether to buy an SL500 or a 996. I followed the chatrooms religiously on both the Porsche and the Mercedes. When the 997 came out, I decided to finally make the decision and to get the Porsche. I haven't looked back. So yes, I think that they are competitors in the sense that they are around the same price range, not necessarily in the same performance range.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    "Re: Sale of 997 is not that good...." ??

    From a PorscheNA press release:

    "Sales in August to the U.S. and Canada up by 13 percent

    Stuttgart. Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, Stuttgart, once again recorded an increase in sales in August 2004. A total of 2,698 vehicles were delivered to customers in the U.S. and Canada. This represents an increase of 13 percent compared with the figure of 2,389 vehicles in the same month last year.

    The huge popularity of the 911 was a decisive factor for the increase. Sales for the entire model range increased by 27 percent in August to 903 vehicles. This gave the new 911 an excellent start: in just four selling days - the 911 was launched on the market in North America on 28th August - 386 units of the new 911 had already been sold. Its share of the entire 911 sales was already at more than 40 percent.

    The Boxster, by contrast, felt the effects of the hesitation to buy in the Roadster market: its sales decreased to 243 vehicles (down 45 percent). Porsche 911 and Boxster sports car sales remained at a sustained high level with a total of 1,146 vehicles sold compared with 1,156 units in the same month last year. Cayenne sales, on the other hand, showed an increase: 1,527 units of the sporty off-road vehicle were sold in August (up 24 percent)."

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The 996 TT would make mince meat of the Boxster/911 S. Be realistic!



    Now you compare the Boxster to the 997 Carrera S? No more arguments, ehh?

    The 996 Turbo Tiptronic needs 4.8 seconds from 0-62 mph.
    The 997 Carrera S wins.
    The 996 Turbo Tiptronic needs 16.6 seconds from 0-125 mph.
    The 997 Carrera S wins.
    Just an example.
    I never compared the 997 Carrera S to the 996 Turbo but thanks for mentioning it.

    How about this, Nick: the current 996 Turbo S (the "old" VW type car) outruns the F430 from 0-100 mph (factory claims).
    Now take a guess how the new 997 Turbo will perform.

    I just think you enjoy teasing us but there must be a psychological reason behind all this. Teasing means once or twice or maybe several times but what you do is a full time Porsche bashing job and I start to wonder why?!
    Whenever you're in Germany, you're invited on a little ride. And to make it a fair one: I invite several members of the Ferrari Club Germany to join us in their cars, including the new F430. What do you say? I still have one "bill" open with a F360 Modena driver from Wiesbaden who kept me for 20 km's on the left Autobahn lane at a constant speed of 125 mph because he didn't want to move to the right. He already got my "warning notice" through our co-editor CR who knows him: next time, I push him from the street ...I was returning from Paris in a fully loaded Cayenne Turbo. Porsche drivers DRIVE their cars, they don't DREAM of their cars WHILE driving them.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The 996 TT would make mince meat of the Boxster/911 S. Be realistic!



    Now you compare the Boxster to the 997 Carrera S? No more arguments, ehh?

    The 996 Turbo Tiptronic needs 4.8 seconds from 0-62 mph.
    The 997 Carrera S wins.
    The 996 Turbo Tiptronic needs 16.6 seconds from 0-125 mph.
    The 997 Carrera S wins.
    Just an example.
    I never compared the 997 Carrera S to the 996 Turbo but thanks for mentioning it.

    How about this, Nick: the current 996 Turbo S (the "old" VW type car) outruns the F430 from 0-100 mph (factory claims).
    Now take a guess how the new 997 Turbo will perform.

    I just think you enjoy teasing us but there must be a psychological reason behind all this. Teasing means once or twice or maybe several times but what you do is a full time Porsche bashing job and I start to wonder why?!
    Whenever you're in Germany, you're invited on a little ride. And to make it a fair one: I invite several members of the Ferrari Club Germany to join us in their cars, including the new F430. What do you say? I still have one "bill" open with a F360 Modena driver from Wiesbaden who kept me for 20 km's on the left Autobahn lane at a constant speed of 125 mph because he didn't want to move to the right. He already got my "warning notice" through our co-editor CR who knows him: next time, I push him from the street ...I was returning from Paris in a fully loaded Cayenne Turbo. Porsche drivers DRIVE their cars, they don't DREAM of their cars WHILE driving them.



    I acknowledge my bias against Porsche. It also may border on obsessive. Yet everything I write has a well founded basis. I know many disagree with me and that is what I expect.

    A word about Ferrari. No doubt it is over priced and its performance does not exceed all other cars. Nevertheless, Ferrari is a car that stirs the passion in car enthusiast all over the world. Those of us fortunate enough to own one know the limitations of the car.However, there is a reason why people pay over MSRP and be willing to wait 4-5 years to get one. I could never make you understand so I will not try.

    Also, it is difficult for Porsche owners to understand this given that Porsche's are readily available and one looks like another regardless of model or year. Porsche owners rationalize this by saying Porsche is remaining true to its heritage. I view it differently but will not bore you with an explanation.

    BTW I was not comparing a Boxster with a 997S. They share about 1/3 of the components so I merge them together.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Hey guys,

    Are you saying that Ferrari does not share components with another car nberry? Is it not true that the F430 engine is based on the engine from the Maserati. I do agree with you that yes the Ferrari has got its strong points but you really are not comparing apples with apples. You are comparing a Ferrari to a vehicle that is half its price. If everyone is going to view things the way you do then we might as well compare the Mclaren F1 to a 575M. I think its time apples are compared to apples.

    Just my .02
    Ciao,

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Don't bother with nick, he's got an order for a F430/Maser GT

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:

    It is funny that people start to use now the same arguments regarding the 997 some other people were using when the 996 showed up, replacing the beloved 993.
    This actually means only one thing: it is the same "the old one was the better one bragging" which happens every time when Porsche puts a new 911 on the market.
    We talk again next year.



    IMO it's different this time. the 996, when introduced, was abused and attacked by the press and the general public as far as i remember.

    it was a brave and modern design -- but it had to grow on you. and it did.

    contrary to this, the 997's design is neither brave or modern but receives a lot of instant acclaim from press! at least this is my impression.

    i would have guessed that the people are standing in line to get one. but -strangely- they aren't.

    i don't think it will get better in the future. as i already posted some time ago, i guess that the 997 will age quite fast.

    the 911 heritage is not about round headlights with separated indicators.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    the 911 heritage is not about round headlights with separated indicators.



    You can say that again. And like RC said, if I had a 996GT3RS, the 997S wouldn't "touch" me either

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:

    it was a brave and modern design -- but it had to grow on you. and it did.

    contrary to this, the 997's design is neither brave or modern but receives a lot of instant acclaim from press! at least this is my impression.

    i would have guessed that the people are standing in line to get one. but -strangely- they aren't.




    Aren't they ? I for one am standing in line, for the 997S Cab.

    And as for the design that's neither brave nor modern ? Well I guess then that I was wrong for thinking that PASM was modern, or the sport package. The refined power plant. The redesigned chassis.

    Just what is it you folks WANT in a new 911 ?

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    Dubliner said:

    Aren't they ? I for one am standing in line, for the 997S Cab.





    I too am in line for a 997S cab. Since about 50% of the 911's sold in the USA are cabs that part of the market hasn't yet had a chance to add to the number of 997's sold.

    Phil

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    ... a NEW 911.

    not a rehashed interior and retro lights. Lets see 5 more HP and a heavier car with NO increased PERFORMANCE. Hmmmmm...
    Did you, or do you own a 996? If not then I can understand why you would want the 996 1/2.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    ... a NEW 911.

    not a rehashed interior and retro lights. Lets see 5 more HP and a heavier car with NO increased PERFORMANCE. Hmmmmm...
    Did you, or do you own a 996? If not then I can understand why you would want the 996 1/2.



    I currently have a '99 cab with a 3.4L 296HP engine, so either 997 model will be an improvement for me. I am going to order a 997 S cab as soon as they let me.

    There wasn't enough difference between the '99 and the latest 996's for me to justify buying one of them, but the 997 offers enough improvements to make the move. During the life of the 996 many owners of early 996's later bought the more recent 996's because they felt there were enough diffences to make the move worthwile.

    Certainly there are MANY more signficant changes between the 996 and 997 than there ever was from one 996 to the next. To state that the changes are only headlights, rehashed interior and headlights is way off the mark. I could list the all the significant differences in the 996 verses 997 but I haven't an hour to devote to this.

    Also, to get 30HP more in the S for about the price of the included 19" wheels, PASM, Bi-Xenon lights, turbo brakes, etc. isn't a bad deal in my book. This is why the standard Carreras aren't selling that well...the S is such a good deal (relatively speaking). Most of the unsold inventory are non S's.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:


    Also, it is difficult for Porsche owners to understand this given that Porsche's are readily available and one looks like another regardless of model or year. Porsche owners rationalize this by saying Porsche is remaining true to its heritage. I view it differently but will not bore you with an explanation.





    You think all Porsches look alike? Hmmm...aren't ALL Ferraris red? Talk about look-alikes!

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    To add to a previous post, I ordered a carrera S with GT Silver exterior and a terracota interior with aluminum interior finish and steering wheel. The dealer called this morning to inform me that the supplier of the aluminum wheel is jammed and that delivery on a car that is november production would be delayed if I decided to wait for that specific steering wheel. I decided to go with the standard steering so I can recieve it by its original delivery date which would be December 15.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    I don't know what you are talking about. We are sold out of 997 S model for 6 months. The only S we have to drive is a
    Tip, launch, very expensive model ($ 101,300). I have no
    normal Carrera models to demo, at this time either. The Carrera is selling like hot cakes. For a wartime, election
    year; I think this new 911 model is a resounding success !
    And the reason is, it is the best product value ever; for a
    911 ! People absolutely love them ! Wait till the Cab come out, down here in Florida ! Revvv @ Champion

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Revvv - what's the split between C2 and C2S?

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    In my observation it seems like 60/40- Carrera/Carrera S. I
    think people think that the S model is a better value; I agree. Revvv

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    That $100K barrier is hard for people to even get close to.

    Getting the "cheaper" unit is not an option for some people.

    There's two more psychological barriers possibly affecting sales for this model intro.

    A. $100K

    B. first time in decades a less powerful/desireable "budget" version comes out at the same time.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Wrong.... Best Value ever in a All new Carrera.
    Base price Carrera -$69,300 Base price Carrera S- $79,100.
    For enthusiast that understand.... it is all good news.
    Revvv

     
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