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    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    In this case, unless you feel the need to have the latest, I would pick up a 997.1 or .2 GT3 RS. I think this is a much more exciting car for you to drive on normal roads than the 991.2 GT3 will be. The GT cars truly wake up on the limit, but you will never be able to drive a 500HP, PDK, 991.2 GT3 anywhere near the limit on a normal road. The 997 GT3 RS models are more accessible in this sense. Most likely much better value too than the 991.2 GT3 which will be subject of the same "fire sale" as the current GT3.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    For many people (Nick included I suspect), the comfort of the 991 platform + accessibility (PDK) makes the 997 GT3 a non-starter.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    vantagesc:

    For many people (Nick included I suspect), the comfort of the 991 platform + accessibility (PDK) makes the 997 GT3 a non-starter.

    I know I'd prefer several aspects of the 997 GT3, but I am sold on the track insurance and track warranty that comes with a new car and Euro Delivery.


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Yep, Ed pink is also what I heard, but regarding Nick's build, I would say its colour is Black....angry


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Grant:
    vantagesc:

    For many people (Nick included I suspect), the comfort of the 991 platform + accessibility (PDK) makes the 997 GT3 a non-starter.

    I know I'd prefer several aspects of the 997 GT3, but I am sold on the track insurance and track warranty that comes with a new car and Euro Delivery.

    I think I told you before: I doubt this is true, re-check the Euro Delivery insurance/warranty regulations.

    The Nordschleife is a different story because it is officially a public road but if you get involved into an accident there, insurance could back off from their responsibility, depending on the nature of the accident.

    Regarding PDK and Porsche cars: PDK in the GT3/GT3RS is fun, especially when you shift manually. PDK isn't that much fun in the Carrera models when you shift manually, even less in the new turbo charged models.

    I do not think that Nick will be happy with another GT3 to be honest. He should get a Huracan or maybe even a R8 and be done with it. I could also see him in a 570S... 

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    martini964:

    Yep, Ed pink is also what I heard,

    It's no secret the Ed Pink currently does the engines for Singer, they both openly disclose it. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Based on available information, I came to a conclusion that the rear wheel steer hardware is the same on the GT3, GT3RS and 991R models. I noticed in particular the statements from Andreas Preuninger and Porsche AG in their media communiques that the calibration for 991R was particular to the car, to make it even more agile, or, nimble.

    Also, the experience of driving the new 991.2 S with the optional rear wheel steer points to a higher level of agility, as well as to a particular change in the character of the steering response, beyond a given speed. I attributed that to, possibly, a change in the rear wheel steer parameters as the speed increases.

    Therefore, it seems to me that, the character of the 991 GT (including the R) and 991.2 chassis response is determined by the dynamic response of the rear wheel steer function, and is software driven - meaning that one could theoretically simulate the different characters in one and the same car by managing the rear wheel steer map.

    What do you collectively think - I would love to hear your critical opinion on the above theory.

    Best, w


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    wurlie:

    Based on available information, I came to a conclusion that the rear wheel steer hardware is the same on the GT3, GT3RS and 991R models. I noticed in particular the statements from Andreas Preuninger and Porsche AG in their media communiques that the calibration for 991R was particular to the car, to make it even more agile, or, nimble.

    Also, the experience of driving the new 991.2 S with the optional rear wheel steer points to a higher level of agility, as well as to a particular change in the character of the steering response, beyond a given speed. I attributed that to, possibly, a change in the rear wheel steer parameters as the speed increases.

    Therefore, it seems to me that, the character of the 991 GT (including the R) and 991.2 chassis response is determined by the dynamic response of the rear wheel steer function, and is software driven - meaning that one could theoretically simulate the different characters in one and the same car by managing the rear wheel steer map.

    What do you collectively think - I would love to hear your critical opinion on the above theory.

    Best, w

    Possible but even if true, what could be the point here? You would never be able to have your own programming done.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    RC:
    Grant:
    vantagesc:

    For many people (Nick included I suspect), the comfort of the 991 platform + accessibility (PDK) makes the 997 GT3 a non-starter.

    I know I'd prefer several aspects of the 997 GT3, but I am sold on the track insurance and track warranty that comes with a new car and Euro Delivery.

    I think I told you before: I doubt this is true, re-check the Euro Delivery insurance/warranty regulations.

    The Director of Euro Delivery Program at Porsche North America provided assurances that all track driving (with the exception of actual Sanctioned Races) is covered by the included ED insurance with only 1,000 EUR deductible (16 days for free, longer with additional fee).

    The Track Warranty is a little more ambiguous.  With the 2014 991 GT3, the Track coverage under the warranty was specifically included in the language and boasted about by AP.  But with all the GT3 engine issues, that language was removed from the owners' manual after MY2014.  However, Porsche has yet to decline warranty coverage for any problems occurring on track (as long as not using Slick tires, for example) for US customers.


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Grant:
    RC:
    Grant:
    vantagesc:

    For many people (Nick included I suspect), the comfort of the 991 platform + accessibility (PDK) makes the 997 GT3 a non-starter.

    I know I'd prefer several aspects of the 997 GT3, but I am sold on the track insurance and track warranty that comes with a new car and Euro Delivery.

    I think I told you before: I doubt this is true, re-check the Euro Delivery insurance/warranty regulations.

    The Director of Euro Delivery Program at Porsche North America provided assurances that all track driving (with the exception of actual Sanctioned Races) is covered by the included ED insurance with only 1,000 EUR deductible (16 days for free, longer with additional fee).

    If you have this written black on white, I do not see a problem. Otherwise... Smiley I asked about it and nobody here seems to know anything about it. The insurance is a pretty standard full coverage insurance in Germany and it does not cover track usage with the exception of official Porsche driver ed events and some other similar events. I would be careful, just saying... 

    The Track Warranty is a little more ambiguous.  With the 2014 991 GT3, the Track coverage under the warranty was specifically included in the language and boasted about by AP.  But with all the GT3 engine issues, that language was removed from the owners' manual after MY2014.  However, Porsche has yet to decline warranty coverage for any problems occurring on track (as long as not using Slick tires, for example) for US customers.

    It is pretty difficult to prove for Porsche if a car has been damaged (warranty related) by track racing. However, life is a bitch and sh.t happens. Why would they provide road cars with a track warranty if they don't even provide such a warranty for their professional track cars?! Food for thought. 

    Grant, just be careful, this is all I'm saying.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Mithras:
    martini964:

    Yep, Ed pink is also what I heard,

    It's no secret the Ed Pink currently does the engines for Singer, they both openly disclose it. 

    lol seems my info was way old


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I'll have to re-visit the track insurance situation before my next Scuderia class.  Sounds like Porsche Nurburgring Experience would be covered without issue though?


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Grant:

    I'll have to re-visit the track insurance situation before my next Scuderia class.  Sounds like Porsche Nurburgring Experience would be covered without issue though?

    Just saying ........  most people are not covered with insurance when doing these events . You ' ve got to be your own insurance , don't push to the limits and don't seriously race against anyone . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    bluelines:

    In this case, unless you feel the need to have the latest, I would pick up a 997.1 or .2 GT3 RS. I think this is a much more exciting car for you to drive on normal roads than the 991.2 GT3 will be. The GT cars truly wake up on the limit, but you will never be able to drive a 500HP, PDK, 991.2 GT3 anywhere near the limit on a normal road. The 997 GT3 RS models are more accessible in this sense. Most likely much better value too than the 991.2 GT3 which will be subject of the same "fire sale" as the current GT3.

    If they build the .2RS I have told my dealer that is the car I want and would get an early allocation. If not, then the .2GT3 would be a good buy because it may be the last of the NA GT cars.

    The Huracan is too expensive, over the top styling, small cabin and more along the lines of a Ferrari. I would just get a Ferrari if I was in the market for that type of car. The R8 I looked at look and hard and decided I like the look of the GT3RS or GT3 better.


    --

    To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Gnil:
    Grant:

    I'll have to re-visit the track insurance situation before my next Scuderia class.  Sounds like Porsche Nurburgring Experience would be covered without issue though?

    Just saying ........  most people are not covered with insurance when doing these events . You ' ve got to be your own insurance , don't push to the limits and don't seriously race against anyone . 

    Yeah, I never got anywhere near the limits at the Ring - too scary.  But, stuff can go wrong even if cautious, so I found it very comforting to think I was insured.  I just wrote an email to head of ED for NA for more clarity.  I'll share what I learn...


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Gnil:
    Grant:

    I'll have to re-visit the track insurance situation before my next Scuderia class.  Sounds like Porsche Nurburgring Experience would be covered without issue though?

    Just saying ........  most people are not covered with insurance when doing these events . You ' ve got to be your own insurance , don't push to the limits and don't seriously race against anyone . 

    This is very true and good advice but Grant apparently has been told specifically that his track driving is covered by the insurance and I don't want him to be disappointed if something happens. Better to be prepared...like you said...don't push it hard and keep your ego at a healthy level. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I'm tempted to reply here as well, but let's continue this conversation on the thread titled "Insurance coverage for Porsche Euro Delivery - race track use "


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Grant:

    I'm tempted to reply here as well, but let's continue this conversation on the thread titled "Insurance coverage for Porsche Euro Delivery - race track use "

    Oh dear! Does not such "stay on topic" behaviour violate this forum's rules? Smiley Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    What rules?

    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I don't understand why this insurance thing is so hard to figure out... There must be a contract of some sort attached to a european delivery and the insurance you can add. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    amazon:

    I don't understand why this insurance thing is so hard to figure out... There must be a contract of some sort attached to a european delivery and the insurance you can add. 




    I have the insurance contract (80 pages in German) - there are no further options (aside from duration) available.


    --


    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    SciFrog:
    What rules?

    §1 RC is always right.

    When he isn't right, see §1.

    Simple rules. Smiley Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Re-entrant piece of logic there. Nice.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    KMM:

    Re-entrant piece of logic there. Nice.

     

    Forgot: §3 RC's wife's opinion supersedes all paragraphs.

    (my wife made me write this... Smiley Smiley).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    IMG_0812.JPG

    Pic of the infamous rear diffuser of the R. It will bolt straight up to the RS with no modifications.


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Hard to believe that makes much downforce.  If it does, I wonder why they never fitted it to the GT3...

    Compare and contrast.. GT3:


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    DaveGordon:

    Hard to believe that makes much downforce.  If it does, I wonder why they never fitted it to the GT3...

    Compare and contrast.. GT3:

     

    It doesn't.

    Andy did say they needed downforce for lane change at 300km/hr, but what he didn't mentioned was that was a  very gentle lane change.

    The Weissach guys I spoke to all agreed that the 911R NEEDED a lot more downforce to be stable. It is NOT stable right now.

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    How much downforce does the 911R diffuser generate, does anyone have numbers?

    A proper diffuser can generate a lot of downforce -- it's basically an underbody wing -- so it's surprising that Porsche hasn't put more engineering effort into diffusers before now.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    They can't on the 911, because of the engine layout. As you can see on the pictures, the underbody is basically flat, it's just the last part that is not possible to rise as much as on mind-engined cars. The magic happens at the flat part, but the air needs to be decellerated at the back of the car to generate an area of low pressure in the middle that sucks the car to the road.

    This issue is also present on the 911 racecars and the reason behind the engine-gearbox layout change for next years' RSR.

    What those fins on the R do is basically guiding the air and protect it from influences coming from the side.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Infamous is the best word. That "thing" looks really cheap and not integrated at all.  Guys, let's realize this is the only new part of that very pricey R! Lazy Porsche. Easy money. I can't see that R part of the greats moving forward. 


     
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