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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Apparently some people drive the cars and others drive the badges. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Nick, I had a funny feeling that your Porsche dealer took in too many orders for the GT3 and they are trying to juggle their limited allocations, you are part of their musical chair dance.  They are just giving you the run around to put you off. There is no way they can't 'know' how many cars they are getting. My dealer is not that big, selling about 400 total a year but they still get a car or 2 a month not counting bonus ones.

    My friend ordered one about a month ago and he is already assigned a December car, delivery in January, maybe sooner if they have bonus cars. 

    Way back when I ordered my 997TT in May, 96, I was already assigned a December build car too, #8 on their list, but they had a bonus one in October and I moved up to take it, ended up with their 3rd car.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:

    Better to accompany the 911 (and the other sports models) with SUVs and make money, than go out of business altogether.

    Look at how sports car companies have been struggling for ages from Lotus to Aston Martin and many others. Maserati are trying to expand to small sedans now and Lamborghini will produce a SUV soon. Perhaps, only Ferrari have managed to survive, but I don't know how FIAT are doing their accounting within the Group.

    To me the production of non-sports cars by PAG doesn't mean anything. I enjoy Porsche ownership regardless because I put substance over snob value. The image is only hurt if the product is rubbish. Similarly, I don't think that a Mercedes SLS AMG (another top car)  driver cares that the Stern is also to be found on taxis, buses and trucks.

    It is not very often that I disagree with anything that you write, and whilst you certainly have some valid points here (for which I am also in agreement), I am not completely sure that this is the right strategy (long term) for Porsche (as a supposedly sportscar company).

    I completely agree with you that the accounting in the FIAT Group would be "interesting" to say the least, but the Ferrari model is interesting, and there is no reason for Porsche not to become a niche focused sportscar company, now that it is part of VAG.

    The main issue that I have with the current "let’s build SUV's and other Non-sportcars for survival" strategy, is that it is quite short-term in its thinking (at least when related to the future of its sportscars).

    Whilst it is understandable that current Porsche sportscar owners are appreciative of their car's abilities/quality/performance, branding is important of two major reasons: 1) it allows the company to charge premium prices for its product, thus driving up profits (if well managed). 2) It attracts future customers.

    This second point is very important for the long term stability of sportscar company. It needs to continue to produce cars "that dreams are made of".

    I think Porsche are slowly realizing this (I hope) and I think that their insistence on returning to Le Mans is part of this revival in having a “sportcar driven” company.

    BLfksVeCcAA2ujw.png


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The unfortunate thing was that Porsche was not taken over by VAG in the early 90s, when it was a pure sportscar company. If that was the case, Porsche would be on a different path now. However, when Porsche had to be taken over a decade later, the Cayenne was already a commercial success and the Panamera was ready for release. W. Wiedeking changed the character of Porsche ( in a straggle for independence) forever and there was no way back. On the contrary VW management were tempted to capitalize on the success of the non-sport models and they decided to introduce the Macan. I hope they look deeper inside the brand history and they don't go any further.

    Had VW bought Porsche in 1993, I am almost sure that there would be no Cayenne/Panamera/Macan and no R8 by Audi (which admittedly is a nuisance for Porsche) . But we cannot turn the clock back and start afresh. The SUVs and the limousines are part of the Porsche character now.

    Personally, I would also prefer a more focused Porsche company. But, I don't feel that my 911 is any less of a wonderful sportscar than the G-series, the 964 and 993 were at their time. The same applies to the Boxster too. Porsche have not ignored the development of the sportscars in spite of the easy money that the Cayenne has brought. On the contrary Porsche sportscars are more up to date and better made than the products of most dedicated sportscar manufacturers.

    What I am missing most is the motorsport domination of years gone by, especially during the 956/962 era and the TAG-Porsche F1 period.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Agreed! The quality of their sportscar product has remained high.....so far. It is concerning (to me) that their current model range does not afford them enough flexibility to offer a truly competitive GT motorsports product under the current ACO/FiA rules and regulations. The motorsport business was a profitable one, and served well as a marketing tool. To allow one's dominant position as the benchmark company to dwindle to an “also ran" position is very sad. Yes, WW was to blame.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    SportCarGroup:

    The hood crest is missing. These are mules for sure...

    Of course these are mules...no GT3  customer car until September. Also note the LB license plate...Weissach. Press cars have Stuttgart plates (S-GO...), employee plates are usually S-PX.... Smiley

    Could one of these mules be testing the GT3 RS parts underneath? :)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Whoopsy:

    Nick, I had a funny feeling that your Porsche dealer took in too many orders for the GT3 and they are trying to juggle their limited allocations, you are part of their musical chair dance.  They are just giving you the run around to put you off. There is no way they can't 'know' how many cars they are getting. My dealer is not that big, selling about 400 total a year but they still get a car or 2 a month not counting bonus ones.

    My friend ordered one about a month ago and he is already assigned a December car, delivery in January, maybe sooner if they have bonus cars. 

    Way back when I ordered my 997TT in May, 96, I was already assigned a December build car too, #8 on their list, but they had a bonus one in October and I moved up to take it, ended up with their 3rd car.

    Interesting! There are others in the US who are #1 on their dealer list and yet have not be called. As you may know those who have ordered a 918 will get high priority to order a GT3. Yet an individual who has order a 918 and the GT3 just yesterday cancelled the GT3 and stated his dealer had not receive his allocations. He cancelled because he decided to get the 991GT3RS.

    I suspect the delay of allocations to US dealers may have to do with US regulations and Porsche sorting it out.


    --

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Spyderidol:

    Agreed! The quality of their sportscar product has remained high.....so far. It is concerning (to me) that their current model range does not afford them enough flexibility to offer a truly competitive GT motorsports product under the current ACO/FiA rules and regulations. The motorsport business was a profitable one, and served well as a marketing tool. To allow one's dominant position as the benchmark company to dwindle to an “also ran" position is very sad. Yes, WW was to blame.

    Porsche needs a mid-engined junior supercar for sales, image and GT racing. If McLaren can do it (not to mention Audi) what is stopping Porsche? I cannot understand!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Whoopsy:

    Nick, I had a funny feeling that your Porsche dealer took in too many orders for the GT3 and they are trying to juggle their limited allocations, you are part of their musical chair dance.  They are just giving you the run around to put you off. There is no way they can't 'know' how many cars they are getting. My dealer is not that big, selling about 400 total a year but they still get a car or 2 a month not counting bonus ones.

    My friend ordered one about a month ago and he is already assigned a December car, delivery in January, maybe sooner if they have bonus cars. 

    Way back when I ordered my 997TT in May, 96, I was already assigned a December build car too, #8 on their list, but they had a bonus one in October and I moved up to take it, ended up with their 3rd car.

    I don't think you are correct.  In the US, I've yet to hear of anyone with allocations other than the 918 customers.  The rest of us just have a 'place in line' with a dealer of our choice.  I'll check again today with my dealer.

    Is your friend in the US?


    --
    997 GT3, in yeller 4.8is (daily beater) E36 M3 ltw, Euro motor (track car)

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:
    Spyderidol:

    Agreed! The quality of their sportscar product has remained high.....so far. It is concerning (to me) that their current model range does not afford them enough flexibility to offer a truly competitive GT motorsports product under the current ACO/FiA rules and regulations. The motorsport business was a profitable one, and served well as a marketing tool. To allow one's dominant position as the benchmark company to dwindle to an “also ran" position is very sad. Yes, WW was to blame.

    Porsche needs a mid-engined junior supercar for sales, image and GT racing. If McLaren can do it (not to mention Audi) what is stopping Porsche? I cannot understand!

    Would the rumored Cayman GT3 fill this need?


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Grant:
    reginos:
    Spyderidol:

    Agreed! The quality of their sportscar product has remained high.....so far. It is concerning (to me) that their current model range does not afford them enough flexibility to offer a truly competitive GT motorsports product under the current ACO/FiA rules and regulations. The motorsport business was a profitable one, and served well as a marketing tool. To allow one's dominant position as the benchmark company to dwindle to an “also ran" position is very sad. Yes, WW was to blame.

    Porsche needs a mid-engined junior supercar for sales, image and GT racing. If McLaren can do it (not to mention Audi) what is stopping Porsche? I cannot understand!

    Would the rumored Cayman GT3 fill this need?

    I think Porsche need a V8 (or flat 8) to compete. Their rivals in the various GT racing categories have larger capacity 8 cylinder engines.

    R8, 458, McLaren, BMW and SLS.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:
    Spyderidol:

    Agreed! The quality of their sportscar product has remained high.....so far. It is concerning (to me) that their current model range does not afford them enough flexibility to offer a truly competitive GT motorsports product under the current ACO/FiA rules and regulations. The motorsport business was a profitable one, and served well as a marketing tool. To allow one's dominant position as the benchmark company to dwindle to an “also ran" position is very sad. Yes, WW was to blame.

    Porsche needs a mid-engined junior supercar for sales, image and GT racing. If McLaren can do it (not to mention Audi) what is stopping Porsche? I cannot understand!

    How about the fact that VAG owns Audi(R8) and Lamborghini(Cabrera as Gallardo replacement)?

    Also, problem is 911 as it is. Something like 960 as mid engine true sportscar could kill 911 on a long run. Porsche is more or less stuck with 911 and will improve/upgrade it as long as possible.

    P.S.

    Drove F12 Berlinetta few days ago. Best car that I ever drove. Period.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Grant:
    reginos:
    Spyderidol:

    Agreed! The quality of their sportscar product has remained high.....so far. It is concerning (to me) that their current model range does not afford them enough flexibility to offer a truly competitive GT motorsports product under the current ACO/FiA rules and regulations. The motorsport business was a profitable one, and served well as a marketing tool. To allow one's dominant position as the benchmark company to dwindle to an “also ran" position is very sad. Yes, WW was to blame.

    Porsche needs a mid-engined junior supercar for sales, image and GT racing. If McLaren can do it (not to mention Audi) what is stopping Porsche? I cannot understand!

    Would the rumored Cayman GT3 fill this need?

    The Cayman GT3 could fulfill that role if Porsche doesn't emasculate it because its performance is too close to that of the 911.  Porsche, definitely before the acquisition by VW, was in a poor economic position with the need to have higher volume vehicles to support development of the sports car branch of the business.  Porsche almost needed to form another brand for the SUVs and sedans; however, the success of those vehicles is completely dependent on the Porsche badge.  Looks as if the real problem was remaining an independent sports car manufacturer for too long.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Remember the time when some "experts" predicted the end of the 6-cyl. Boxer engine or when they said that it has reached it's power maximum? Remember the GT2RS, have you noticed the latest n/a GT3?

    Sorry but Porsche can and will go on with the 911 for a very long time, especially now that they are family with the R8 and Lamborghini. The 911 is different, always has been. Also look at how competitive the car is. Of course Porsche could build faster and better Porsche but...why? As long as the current models sell, no need to. That simple.

    I do NOT want or ever desired a mid engined Porsche model or a lower budget version like  a Cayman RS. I love the 911, this is why I buy Porsche. Period.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    ***** Porsche 991 GT3 : Official Brochure *****

    Porsche-991-GT3-brochure-cover-page.jpg

    Porsche 991 GT3 : Official Brochure -- PDF Download Link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:
     

    Interesting! There are others in the US who are #1 on their dealer list and yet have not be called. As you may know those who have ordered a 918 will get high priority to order a GT3. Yet an individual who has order a 918 and the GT3 just yesterday cancelled the GT3 and stated his dealer had not receive his allocations. He cancelled because he decided to get the 991GT3RS.

    I suspect the delay of allocations to US dealers may have to do with US regulations and Porsche sorting it out.

     

    As I understands, the 918 owner 'priority' runs parallel with the dealer's own standard allocation. Cars ordered for the 918 owners arrives independently as so called 'bonus' cars. The system as explained to me was say a dealer gets 2 GT3 a month and it has say 8 on the wait list, then a couple 918 owners wants a GT3 too, Porsche would 'find' extra cars and ship them off to the dealer for those 2 918 owners, #1,2 on the list will still get theirs on the 1st shipment, #3,4 2nd month and #5 and #6 on the list will still gets their car in the 3rd month and 7,8 with get theirs in the 4th month. The 2 'bonus' cars could arrive anytime, so maybe the 1st shipment will have 3 cars and one of them for the 918 owner, then the regular 2 cars the next month for #3 and 4 then 3 cars again on the 3rd month for the other 918 owner plus #5, 6. It's how the 'program' suppose to run from Porsche's perspective.

    But at the individual dealer level, as you know, especially in LA, all customers are not equal and a dealer is very likely to gives extra priority to a customer who ordered a 918 vs a normal customer ordering a plain jane before. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    frayed:
    I don't think you are correct.  In the US, I've yet to hear of anyone with allocations other than the 918 customers.  The rest of us just have a 'place in line' with a dealer of our choice.  I'll check again today with my dealer.

    Is your friend in the US?

     

    No, Vancouver Canada.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    At least in the US we have been led to believe the 918 allocations do not run parallel to the regular ones. 

    So far no news of non-918 allocations to us lowly flatfoots in the US.


    --
    997 GT3, in yeller 4.8is (daily beater) E36 M3 ltw, Euro motor (track car)

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    This was posted in another forum last year:

    VIPletter.jpg

    What was explained to me differs from this letter, I think Porsche has changed their thinking like they did with the deposits on the 918.

    As it was written last year according to their wording, the 918 owners' orders takes precedent over regular orders, which means had Porsche received enough deposits, and all the 918 owners decides to buy the RS4.0, it would have been sold out before the regular orders kicks in. 

    I think Porsche changed their mind on 'rights' on regular production cars like GT3, easier for them to run a parallel list. Especially it would not be fair to some customers who had deposits placed years in advance even before the 918 was announced. 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    "But at the individual dealer level, as you know, especially in LA, all customers are not equal and a dealer is very likely to gives extra priority to a customer who ordered a 918 vs a normal customer ordering a plain jane before."


    That is a problem in many dealerships. Fortunately, I don't anticipate many 918 owners buying the GT3. Going from a 918 to a GT3 would be like going from a 911 to a Prius.Smiley  


    --

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

     

    That is a problem in many dealerships. Fortunately, I don't anticipate many 918 owners buying the GT3. Going from a 918 to a GT3 would be like going from a 911 to a Prius.Smiley  

     

    Oh come on, I regularly goes from the MP4-12C to a Honda Odyssey, I drive the fastest in the minivan, no one even expect or noticed I am speeding in the soccer mom special!!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Yeah. I disagree. The 991 GT3 will be far more accessable. The performance numbers arent far off each other either given the fact there is a 458, Panamera Turbo, a MP4-12C and a waterfront property in Fiji between them price wise!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    All 918 owners have multiple cars to choose from on any given day.  The GT3 will just be one car in the stable, not a 'downgrade'


    --
    997 GT3, in yeller 4.8is (daily beater) E36 M3 ltw, Euro motor (track car)

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    Remember the time when some "experts" predicted the end of the 6-cyl. Boxer engine or when they said that it has reached it's power maximum? Remember the GT2RS, have you noticed the latest n/a GT3?

    Sorry but Porsche can and will go on with the 911 for a very long time, especially now that they are family with the R8 and Lamborghini. The 911 is different, always has been. Also look at how competitive the car is. Of course Porsche could build faster and better Porsche but...why? As long as the current models sell, no need to. That simple.

    I do NOT want or ever desired a mid engined Porsche model or a lower budget version like  a Cayman RS. I love the 911, this is why I buy Porsche. Period.

    The 911 and the imaginary mid-engined model (not a Cayman based one) are not mutually exclusive, but complementary. Personally, I 'd like to see a boxer 8 engine in carbon chassis and the less weight in the category.

    And Porsche need it because

    It will generate extra sales in a lucrative market. The profit margin on such cars is many times the profit on a Macan 4C diesel, for example.

    the prestige of offering a true Ferrari rival will elevate the brand further and rub off on the other cars (look how the R8 has positively affected Audi). 

    It will give another strong card to Porsche Motorsport, in activities where the 911 is not competitive anymore.

    I hope Porsche are really reading  Rennteam Smiley

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I believe this PCNA 918 first "rights" issue may be what is slowing down PCNZ 991 GT3 allocations right now, Pretty hard to set allocations when you have perhaps 400 clients out there you have potentially promised first rights to.This isnt the case in ROW countries as I understand it (and is just a PCNA arrangement)...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    KresoF1:
    reginos:
    Spyderidol:

    Agreed! The quality of their sportscar product has remained high.....so far. It is concerning (to me) that their current model range does not afford them enough flexibility to offer a truly competitive GT motorsports product under the current ACO/FiA rules and regulations. The motorsport business was a profitable one, and served well as a marketing tool. To allow one's dominant position as the benchmark company to dwindle to an “also ran" position is very sad. Yes, WW was to blame.

    Porsche needs a mid-engined junior supercar for sales, image and GT racing. If McLaren can do it (not to mention Audi) what is stopping Porsche? I cannot understand!

    How about the fact that VAG owns Audi(R8) and Lamborghini(Cabrera as Gallardo replacement)?

    Also, problem is 911 as it is. Something like 960 as mid engine true sportscar could kill 911 on a long run. Porsche is more or less stuck with 911 and will improve/upgrade it as long as possible.

    Maybe the 911 needs to become more of a "niche" product. Just look at the sales graph I posted earlier. Those sales are not going anywhere fast.

    A new fresh V8 mid-engined sportcar (say in the Turbo S+10% price range) is just what is needed to breath some life into their sportcar sales.

    P.S.

    Drove F12 Berlinetta few days ago. Best car that I ever drove. Period.

    That's why Porsche need the 960 ASAP. They need to set the benchmark (or be very close).


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Remember the time when some "experts" predicted the end of the 6-cyl. Boxer engine or when they said that it has reached it's power maximum? Remember the GT2RS, have you noticed the latest n/a GT3?

    But the issue (and difference) is that when those "experts" predicted the end of the 6 cyl, the engine still remained competitive and the rules in GT racing that were then applicable, allowed Porsche to continue to offer a competitive GT motorsports product based on the 911. This is no longer the case. Either Porsche manage to change the rules (i.e. allow Turbo engines to be more competitive) or they will continue to watch their GT motorsport business collapse and all the marketing gained over the years for the 911 will be slowly eroded to zero.

     

    Sorry but Porsche can and will go on with the 911 for a very long time, especially now that they are family with the R8 and Lamborghini. The 911 is different, always has been. Also look at how competitive the car is. Of course Porsche could build faster and better Porsche but...why? As long as the current models sell, no need to. That simple.

    No one is suggesting the end of the 911.

    I do NOT want or ever desired a mid engined Porsche model or a lower budget version like  a Cayman RS. I love the 911, this is why I buy Porsche. Period.

    You may not, but there may be thousands out there that would jump at a chance of owning a V8 mid-engined Porsche (especially in Porsche's bigger markets).

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    BangoO:

    Not sure I understand why it's so useful though... what do you with it ?

    Drift Smiley

    J.Seven


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Spyderidol:

    A new fresh V8 mid-engined sportcar (say in the Turbo S+10% price range) is just what is needed to breath some life into their sportcar sales.

    If you ask me such a car would have been a better proposition than the 918 Spyder. Instead of V8, Porsche could have used a Flat 8 (based on the Flat 6 modular design) for reasons of being unique, association with the past, and low cetre of gravity. The general look of the 918 would have been perfect for such a car.

    Now, the 918 is trying to justify its cost and heavy weight and find sufficient buyers,  in the face of the P1 and the hyper-Ferrari. The 458 rival ( although I don't like this description) would have sold like hot cakes to existing Porsche enthusiasts and newcomers to the marque.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Agreed! However, it is possible that the 918 eventually (in the fullness of time) morphs into a type of "museum/show piece" (I can’t seem to find the correct word) that will attract collectors and tecno-geeks. If it does follow this path, then it won’t really play an impeding role for the "expansion" of the product range. It will be more of a stand-alone curiosity/ lab experiment, rather than a performance cap for the range.

     


     
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