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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Lord_Driftalot:

    It’s a real mess what happened today.

    Lewis was out driving Max and any other driver today with ease, even when he has been blocked by Perez and lost more than 5s in one lap he still could drive away from Max w/o any problems and on top of it he had a gap of more than 10s for the last 5 laps when the accident happened.

    Why didn’t Massi bring up VSC and let the race finish in style?

    Max stood no chance anymore, in Spa when it was raining cats & dogs they finished a race which didn’t even start and in the final race on the final lap they let Max of the leach with brand new softs whilst Lewis had his >31 laps old hards?!?

    Come on, that was so gross!

    Max is a fantastic and extremely fast‘n aggressive race driver, but this ending wasn’t fair especially to Lewis!

    Yes, I‘m a die hard LH fan but not because he‘s a multiple WC but because he drives within sporting regulations and (race track) limits (other than Max).

    Very sad day for F1 and Motorsport 

    Your argument has little merit.  Mercedes elected not to bring HAM to change tires to the softs during the safety car period.  They probably were anticipating a race concluding under yellow.  That didn’t happen.  It was part risk and part luck that this worked in VER’s favor but it could, with high probability, not worked out either.  


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Hamilton continues to show he is a class act through all of this.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    thuggy:

    Hamilton continues to show he is a class act through all of this.

    Meanwhile, Toto and their lawyers are doing his bidding.  


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Lord_Driftalot:

    It’s a real mess what happened today.

    Lewis was out driving Max and any other driver today with ease, even when he has been blocked by Perez and lost more than 5s in one lap he still could drive away from Max w/o any problems and on top of it he had a gap of more than 10s for the last 5 laps when the accident happened.

    Why didn’t Massi bring up VSC and let the race finish in style?

    Max stood no chance anymore, in Spa when it was raining cats & dogs they finished a race which didn’t even start and in the final race on the final lap they let Max of the leach with brand new softs whilst Lewis had his >31 laps old hards?!?

    Come on, that was so gross!

    Max is a fantastic and extremely fast‘n aggressive race driver, but this ending wasn’t fair especially to Lewis!

    Yes, I‘m a die hard LH fan but not because he‘s a multiple WC but because he drives within sporting regulations and (race track) limits (other than Max).

    Very sad day for F1 and Motorsport 

     

    You writing that just like how Max fans write about their guy against Hamilton. Completely homer-ish.

    A VSC won't help Hamilton at the end. Only a red flag will. But it was only a single car incident so a red flag isn't warranted. 

    Luck plays a big part in F1. More than you think. Mostly over time everything evens out. Remember last year at Silverstone? It was pure luck that Hamilton had the blow out where it was, or else Max could have caught and pass Hamilton for the win. Luck wasn't with Hamilton in Malaysia back in 2016, or else he would have won that year.

    Last race at Saudi Lady Luck was shining on Hamilton where even after 2 impacts his front wing stayed intact to let him win the race. 

    Hamilton made no mistake today, it's just.....luck, or lack of that he didn't win. 

    After today, you bet Hamilton will be motivated for next year. Gunning for his 8th. And also conquering the new regulations. 

    I had wanted Hamilton to win too, but I am also staying neutral, saying things as they are without sugar coating them. 

    Max earned the win today. He never gave up. Even after finding out he likely won't catch Hamilton in time before the end. Never give up is a mark of champion, not every driver can do that. See Bottas. 

     


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Surprised at the level of emotions and extremism in this thread for one pilot or the other... To those saying this is a bad day for F1, think again, F1 organisation is loving this. Its money in the pocket which is all that counts, heck they even cash in sportswashing.

    All of you and many more will be glued to the TV next year because of this, bet their audience will be highest in years of it being a snore fest where one car cruised to the championship title and all the rest fought for second. At least this brings some drama and they (F1) will take it.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    CGX car nut:
    thuggy:

    Hamilton continues to show he is a class act through all of this.

    Meanwhile, Toto and their lawyers are doing his bidding.  

     

    Just like how Horner and Marko go out of their way to stand up for Max this whole season. This is nothing new. Wanna bet Horner will do exactly that and more if the roles were reversed?

    This is the team showing their loyalty to their driver. 

    While it will be a wasted effort in the end, with appeal as a possibility, why not explore that option. Never quit, just like their drivers on track. 

     


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    thuggy:

    Hamilton continues to show he is a class act through all of this.

     

    Great winners are also great losers. Why is Hamilton the GOAT with a target on his back? Cause he is also the greatest loser. It takes more courage to be a great loser. 

    See how Hamilton approached Max at the end, and also how he approached Rosberg back in 2016. Heck even in his first try back in 2007 to Kimi. 

    I simply can't see Max doing that had he lost the championship. He probably would have just stormed off to his trailer or something. 

     


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Agreed, Max has showed his colors this year.  I actually was warming up to Max earlier in the season.  He was showing maturity and growth earlier this year… but in retrospect that was when his car was clearly the class of the field.   And as soon as he came under pressure… he reverted to the Brat like behaviors you spoke of.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    What do you guys want, everyone to move out of Sir Lewis’ way when they see him in the mirror? It reads like ‘how dare anyone impede the champion’. Previous years were nothing but gripes about how F1 is little more than a parade. I applaud both and their teams for putting on a show. Also, this talk about how Ham has always been a class act are laughable. Google ‘Hamilton whining’ and there is no shortage of his pissy-ness and sense of self importance in years past. He has, to his credit, grown out of it, but many here are guilty of revisionist history with Ham, IMO.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    JoeRockhead:

    What do you guys want, everyone to move out of Sir Lewis’ way when they see him in the mirror? It reads like ‘how dare anyone impede the champion’. Previous years were nothing but gripes about how F1 is little more than a parade. I applaud both and their teams for putting on a show. Also, this talk about how Ham has always been a class act are laughable. Google ‘Hamilton whining’ and there is no shortage of his pissy-ness and sense of self importance in years past. He has, to his credit, grown out of it, but many here are guilty of revisionist history with Ham, IMO.

     

    There is racing hard but fair, and racing hard but dirty.

    Perez is a prime example, twice this year they have battled hard, both have respect for the other and there is nothing but praises for both party, neither one try to take out the other even when there is much incentive for Perez to race extra hard as his teammate is battling Hamilton for the title. Norris is another, he had some great battles with Hamilton yet neither tried to kill the other, they just had good old fashion racing. 

    Heck even Tsunoda raced hard and defend against Hamilton fair. 

    Did I mention Alonso and Ocon? Or Ricciardo? Gasly? 

    Up and down the grid, there is only 1 driver that does what Max does, he has no respect at all. 

    I have been on the other side of the pit wall and fence,  I am not just another dude just watching TV and comment mindlessly. I know how to differentiate racing hard but fair vs racing hard but dirty. I had also been called to see the stewards for driving standard, which was for ignoring red flag, if one wants to know, as a rookie racer, I got a stern dress down instead of a penalty. Also been called out by the Race Director for abusing track limit, at Raidillon no less. 


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Yes, Max's style is certainly ... unique, and I hope he matures more. Getting in front of Lewis on the restart, even if just a few inches, was stupid. He does take risks for sure, but he is a battler, and it was a great season, I think, regardless of who you were rooting for. A lot of the best best battles this year involved, Max or Lewis making their way back up to the front, Perez or Bottas being good team mates, or Alonso! who just did a stellar job this year. My Christmas list includes more completion next year, and a bit less risk taking from Max, but having said that, I love hard driving and enjoyed this season as it was much less boring than the recent past.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:

    Says something about Max's reputation when EVERYONE is talking about him taking out Hamilton to win the title. Absolutely no one on Earth will trust him to do the right thing, i.e. racing fair, with sportsmanship. 

    There are two sides to getting another new engine. On one side, this engine only needs to last ONE race. It can be turned up to 15 if they desire. Maybe like an extra 100hp or something. just blowing past everyone. 

    On the other side, Hamilton will still need to physically pass Max at some point. Unless of course they planned on passing Max while he is in the pits changing tires and can't do anything about it. Cause if they do get near each other on track, Max will be like a homing missile towards Hamilton. Just look at Brazil, Max tried really hard already to crash out Hamilton. I really don't see any scenario where Max will not try to crash Hamilton at all. Unless of course he secured pole and then drives the wheels off his Red Bull leaving the field behind. And that free 

     

    sour fkg grapes child, stop wringing your hands, hop in a daddy mobile and get over it. Im still wondering why Perez didn't take him out.  That would have been Schu like, instead RB raced hard and fair.  And let'd not mention the free ride woke Lew got from the stewards.

    Poor Lewis had to wear a mask to the presentation, just so fkg woke, seriously skilled and best at virtue signaling.  Max took advantage of the main chance when it came, Mercedes "track position". fetish cost the race against the probabilities.

    That was highly amusing.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    IMG_0260.jpeg


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    CGX car nut:
    Your argument has little merit.  Mercedes elected not to bring HAM to change tires to the softs during the safety car period.  They probably were anticipating a race concluding under yellow.  That didn’t happen.  It was part risk and part luck that this worked in VER’s favor but it could, with high probability, not worked out either.  

    Lewis could‘nt take the risk changing tyres, he had all to lose as the situiation wasn‘t clear how it would be decided to end the race and Max would have done the opposite to Lewis, so he‘d stayed out an Lewis might have lost track position.

    Now imagine what would happen if Masi would just have let the race to be ended behind SC? It was a tough call to make and Lewis lost.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:

    You writing that just like how Max fans write about their guy against Hamilton. Completely homer-ish.

    A VSC won't help Hamilton at the end. Only a red flag will. But it was only a single car incident so a red flag isn't warranted. 

    Luck plays a big part in F1. More than you think. Mostly over time everything evens out. Remember last year at Silverstone? It was pure luck that Hamilton had the blow out where it was, or else Max could have caught and pass Hamilton for the win. Luck wasn't with Hamilton in Malaysia back in 2016, or else he would have won that year.

    Last race at Saudi Lady Luck was shining on Hamilton where even after 2 impacts his front wing stayed intact to let him win the race. 

    Hamilton made no mistake today, it's just.....luck, or lack of that he didn't win. 

    After today, you bet Hamilton will be motivated for next year. Gunning for his 8th. And also conquering the new regulations. 

    I had wanted Hamilton to win too, but I am also staying neutral, saying things as they are without sugar coating them. 

    Max earned the win today. He never gave up. Even after finding out he likely won't catch Hamilton in time before the end. Never give up is a mark of champion, not every driver can do that. See Bottas. 

    I don‘t mind Lewis to lose the WC IF he‘d have lost it on track, but he didn‘t!. He was leading the race the whole time. Max never gave up, indeed but that ought to be normal if you fight for the championship, so nothing special there.

    Max lost the start, Max was on the same race  as Perez so RB was only going for the qualifying setup and their race pace was inferior to Lewis pace.

    If the race would have ended behind a VSC Lewis would have won, so this would have helped him a lot.

    Masi made him a sitting duck with his old tyres and also getting out only the benchmarkers betwen LH & MV, even Sebastian Vettel was wondering what was going on after the race.

    This race was never close, it has been made close by Masi.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    thuggy:

    Agreed, Max has showed his colors this year.  I actually was warming up to Max earlier in the season.  He was showing maturity and growth earlier this year… but in retrospect that was when his car was clearly the class of the field.   And as soon as he came under pressure… he reverted to the Brat like behaviors you spoke of.

    +1

    Max car was way better than any other car for most part of the season, things changed only significantly in the last four races when Lewis got his things right and was always on the spot.


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    @Whoopsy

    it would have been unexpected had Hamilton won the title. Mercedes never did spent their developmental token this year, so the car is basically a 2020 car which was basically the 2019 car with the rear floor cut for the 2021 rule. It's amazing that he took a 2 year old car to within a few corners of winning the WDC. 

    From where did you got this information? Merc did develop their car clearly since Silverstone, or what did I miss?


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Individuals stating the RB was the quicker car Is BS too, IMO.

    Across the whole season I think it evened out and Max, just, deserved the title. Smiley
     

    A SC, has changed many races and outcomes, nothing new.


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Must to say, I am very happy for Honda. Being a total underdog in 2015 (the worst ers, no tji and so on) and ending its way with the VER championship - amazing achievement. Its not the merc, which from the start has known how to build the engine and what solutions have to be used to be the fastest under regs.


    --

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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Happy for Max happy for Honda !  Karma is a bitch indecision 


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    kudryavchik:

    Must to say, I am very happy for Honda. Being a total underdog in 2015 (the worst ers, no tji and so on) and ending its way with the VER championship - amazing achievement. Its not the merc, which from the start has known how to build the engine and what solutions have to be used to be the fastest under regs.

    +1

    after all the trash talking whilst their time with Macca it’s well deserved!


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Wow, what a season it has been! We've had the title fight we've all been hoping for for such a long time! In my opinion Redbull started the season off better than Mercedes. I found that the past few years, mercedes have been coasting to the championship, and as such they could afford to be very "friendly". Only when being challenged by Red Bull, they have shown their true nature. Max has grown from the brazen brat into this seasoned driver who doesn't shun a dirty trick here and there. I wish he would be a bit more clean, but I think he has grown a lot, considering where he's coming from. It was very frustrating to see Mercedes becoming childish in complaining for example about the pit stop stuff. As a reaction, Red Bull started playing the same games, and it caught up with Mercedes. (This all as experienced by a Max fan, I understand that Lewis fans will have experienced the season a bit different).

    As for yesterday's race, I was really bummed with Max's bad start, and I understand his overtake on Lewis. It was a bit of dive bombing, but of course he had to try that. I was bummer by the stuart's ruling, but it was probably fair. Lewis had the far better car and would have deserved to win the race, but I was happy to see the race finish racing, even though the way it was executed was really, really messy. Just happy to see Max didn't need any dirty tricks this time. Red Bull was once more brilliant in strategy, always prepared for the unexpected. All in all I think a deserved championship win.

    I'm still surprised by the Mercedes' pace the last three races though, where did that come from? RB gambled on the wing, but that wasn't it. Was it the engine? And if so, did they spend any development tokens on that, cause I have difficulties believing that that huge advantage came out of nothing, by just introducing new engines of the same design...

    BTW, I was really impressed with Lewis' post-race interview. It shows what an amazing class act he is. You cannot help but admire him. Absolutely great guy.

    Anyway...


    --


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Lewis was the better driver in the faster car in Abu Dhabi.  Max’s lunge was desperate imo.  The race was not close… yet he lost due to bad luck and questionable decisions.   You  think Mercedes’ strategists didn’t calculate either they would have back markers between them or the race ends under caution?  Masi changed the math and Max won as a result of taking advantage of newer tires versus dead ones. 

    Lewis took it on the chin, congratulated Max, didn’t storm off the podium… he is showing actual virtue… no virtue signaling there… he’s taking it way better than I think I would. Smiley


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Fair and enjoy the win!Smiley

    Yes Mercedes’ did coast this year on design choosing not spend all their tokens!

    Looking forward to March 20!


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    The debate about cars and engines etc. has its significance, but let's face it that it was Nicholas Latifi's crash at a very crucial point in the race which influenced (most probably determined) the outcome of the championship.

    If this crash never happened Hamilton would have cruised to his 8th. But crashes are an inherent part of motorsport. Luck smiled to Verstappen this season.

    Between Hamilton and Verstappen I'd prefer the former to win, but I am glad the race result wasn't overturned following Mercedes' protest. Sporting results should never be decided by officials, committees and lawyers.


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    reginos:

    The debate about cars and engines etc. has its significance, but let's face it that it was Nicholas Latifi's crash at a very crucial point in the race which influenced (most probably determined) the outcome of the championship.

    If this crash never happened Hamilton would have cruised to his 8th. But crashes are an inherent part of motorsport. Luck smiled to Verstappen this season.

    Between Hamilton and Verstappen I'd prefer the former to win, but I am glad the race result wasn't overturned following Mercedes' protest. Sporting results should never be decided by officials, committees and lawyers.

    I agree, I don’t want to see it turned around on appeal as well and I’m more of Lewis fan as well.   The cynical side of me thinks the American owners of Formula 1 are very happy with the FIA.   They engineered a last race show down that came down to a last lap pass.   Seems very scripted for Netflix  Smiley


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Definitely, it someone saw the 2021 season and particularly the extraordinary  finale in the scenario of a movie, this spectator would find it farfetched.

    Nevertheless FIA and the F1 organizers must be very happy for the change at the top of the sport. All sports are televised spectacles nowadays and 8 years of Mercedes domination in the constructors' and drivers' championships is too long to keep fans interested and on the edge of their seats. Fans are looking forward to more action next year after 8 years of predictable stalemate.

    We must remember, however,  that Hamilton just missed his 8th but Mercedes-AMG got their 8th constructors title. Ferrari, as the oldest team, have won more (16?) since 1961 and McLaren in their various ownership structures and engine partnerships also won 8. But Mercedes-AMG are the only ones who have done it in consecutive seasons and with an unchanged corporate/engineering structure.


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Joost:

    Wow, what a season it has been! We've had the title fight we've all been hoping for for such a long time! In my opinion Redbull started the season off better than Mercedes. I found that the past few years, mercedes have been coasting to the championship, and as such they could afford to be very "friendly". Only when being challenged by Red Bull, they have shown their true nature. Max has grown from the brazen brat into this seasoned driver who doesn't shun a dirty trick here and there. I wish he would be a bit more clean, but I think he has grown a lot, considering where he's coming from. It was very frustrating to see Mercedes becoming childish in complaining for example about the pit stop stuff. As a reaction, Red Bull started playing the same games, and it caught up with Mercedes. (This all as experienced by a Max fan, I understand that Lewis fans will have experienced the season a bit different).

    As for yesterday's race, I was really bummed with Max's bad start, and I understand his overtake on Lewis. It was a bit of dive bombing, but of course he had to try that. I was bummer by the stuart's ruling, but it was probably fair. Lewis had the far better car and would have deserved to win the race, but I was happy to see the race finish racing, even though the way it was executed was really, really messy. Just happy to see Max didn't need any dirty tricks this time. Red Bull was once more brilliant in strategy, always prepared for the unexpected. All in all I think a deserved championship win.

    I'm still surprised by the Mercedes' pace the last three races though, where did that come from? RB gambled on the wing, but that wasn't it. Was it the engine? And if so, did they spend any development tokens on that, cause I have difficulties believing that that huge advantage came out of nothing, by just introducing new engines of the same design...

    BTW, I was really impressed with Lewis' post-race interview. It shows what an amazing class act he is. You cannot help but admire him. Absolutely great guy.

    Anyway...

    +1

    well summarized, nothing to add!

    Max deserves it same as Lewis, both great drivers 


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    reginos:

    The debate about cars and engines etc. has its significance, but let's face it that it was Nicholas Latifi's crash at a very crucial point in the race which influenced (most probably determined) the outcome of the championship.

    If this crash never happened Hamilton would have cruised to his 8th. But crashes are an inherent part of motorsport. Luck smiled to Verstappen this season.

    Between Hamilton and Verstappen I'd prefer the former to win, but I am glad the race result wasn't overturned following Mercedes' protest. Sporting results should never be decided by officials, committees and lawyers.

    I‘m not happy if Lewis would win the title because of politics after the race, the race ended as it is and Max is new WC.

    Karma‘s obviously a b**ch but in case of Lewis it has been now the third time:

    2007, 2016 & 2021

    At the same time Massa never got any title chance since 2008 anymore, so Lewis can be still very happy with his achievements so far ­čśâ


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Interesting race. RB had to do the opposite of Mercedes. That is to say the choice was purely in Toto’s hands. Whatever he did RB would do the opposite. So Lewis might have lost track position but he would have been passing Max in that last lap if it had not ended under a SC.  Who here would have given up Lewis’s track position?  There was really no choice and going forward I would not want some appeal here to impact future strategy decisions like these. 
    Congrats Lewis for being a champion all these years both when winning and not. Congrats to Max AND his team for an amazing battle.  It is easy for us to watch and think of Max as somehow out of control, I get that.  Each driver has his own time to grow. I am pretty certain he will clean up his act going forward in an effort to draw focus away from some of the moves he has made this year. 


     
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