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    Ferrarichat.com

    hey,

    as a porsche fan/driver and a general car enthusisat, i follow and am a member on many car boards.

    what i find very strange is that on fchat, any positive remarks i write about porsche are very often met with a very arrogant feedback. it seems that not the facts are called for. when stating there the news about the 7:32 achieved by the GT2 i get comments like:

    - Again....none of us is a race driver and I don't think many of us can even come close to those figures on NBR in any of those cars. So enjoy your cars gentlemen without trying to figure out who is faster.


    - I guess porsche people would get a hard on for this stuff. To me, It really doesn't mean much. I own one porsche and don't think that much about it! plus all the numbers seem VERY inconsistant.


    over and over again i had remarks like that when i posted how a porsche bested a ferrari in anything....

    strange folks.....

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Fchat is great for getting the newest information about Ferrari, no doubt about it. And there are also some very interesting and well informed people there. But it seems as if all other cars that don't have the prancing horse on the bonnet are only second class in that community.

    We don't have such problems at rennteam, that's why I like that forum so much. Sure, the main subjects are about Porsche and sometimes, but only very, very rarely some Porsche-die-hard feels the need to defend the reputation of Stuttgart Zuffenhausen, especially when some strange user with an even more strange bouncing Italian stallion in the avatar dare to post at the 997tt forum.

    But these problems are really negligible and that's what so great about rennteam: fair an objective discussions about all kind of sports cars.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Fchat is great for getting the newest information about Ferrari, no doubt about it. And there are also some very interesting and well informed people there. But it seems as if all other cars that don't have the prancing horse on the bonnet are only second class in that community.

    We don't have such problems at rennteam, that's why I like that forum so much. Sure, the main subjects are about Porsche and sometimes, but only very, very rarely some Porsche-die-hard feels the need to defend the reputation of Stuttgart Zuffenhausen, especially when some strange user with an even more strange bouncing Italian stallion in the avatar dare to post at the 997tt forum.

    But these problems are really negligible and that's what so great about rennteam: fair an objective discussions about all kind of sports cars.



    I agree.

    Recently there was a tread from an owner who owns a 599 GTB and an LP 640.
    During its comparison of its two cars that he loves it was as if the slightest hint that the LP640 might be somewhat superior in a certain area raised instantly straightforward and somehow aggressive objections.

    I want to say Rennteam does not only have the most open-minded members, they are also the ones with the best knowledge.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    hey,

    as a porsche fan/driver and a general car enthusisat, i follow and am a member on many car boards.

    what i find very strange is that on fchat, any positive remarks i write about porsche are very often met with a very arrogant feedback. it seems that not the facts are called for. when stating there the news about the 7:32 achieved by the GT2 i get comments like:

    - Again....none of us is a race driver and I don't think many of us can even come close to those figures on NBR in any of those cars. So enjoy your cars gentlemen without trying to figure out who is faster.


    - I guess porsche people would get a hard on for this stuff. To me, It really doesn't mean much. I own one porsche and don't think that much about it! plus all the numbers seem VERY inconsistant.


    over and over again i had remarks like that when i posted how a porsche bested a ferrari in anything....

    strange folks.....



    I agree. Most posters on FChat are not what one could call well informed. Although, you are getting a hard time with the 7:32 on this board as well Please forgive me

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    especially when some strange user with an even more strange bouncing Italian stallion in the avatar dare to post at the 997tt forum.




    I think I have seen the guy you are talking about

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    hey,

    as a porsche fan/driver and a general car enthusisat, i follow and am a member on many car boards.

    what i find very strange is that on fchat, any positive remarks i write about porsche are very often met with a very arrogant feedback. it seems that not the facts are called for. when stating there the news about the 7:32 achieved by the GT2 i get comments like:

    - Again....none of us is a race driver and I don't think many of us can even come close to those figures on NBR in any of those cars. So enjoy your cars gentlemen without trying to figure out who is faster.


    - I guess porsche people would get a hard on for this stuff. To me, It really doesn't mean much. I own one porsche and don't think that much about it! plus all the numbers seem VERY inconsistant.


    over and over again i had remarks like that when i posted how a porsche bested a ferrari in anything....

    strange folks.....



    I agree. Most posters on FChat are not what one could call well informed. Although, you are getting a hard time with the 7:32 on this board as well Please forgive me



    Sure! You too will get older and wiser.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    hey,

    as a porsche fan/driver and a general car enthusisat, i follow and am a member on many car boards.

    what i find very strange is that on fchat, any positive remarks i write about porsche are very often met with a very arrogant feedback. it seems that not the facts are called for. when stating there the news about the 7:32 achieved by the GT2 i get comments like:

    - Again....none of us is a race driver and I don't think many of us can even come close to those figures on NBR in any of those cars. So enjoy your cars gentlemen without trying to figure out who is faster.


    - I guess porsche people would get a hard on for this stuff. To me, It really doesn't mean much. I own one porsche and don't think that much about it! plus all the numbers seem VERY inconsistant.


    over and over again i had remarks like that when i posted how a porsche bested a ferrari in anything....

    strange folks.....



    I agree. Most posters on FChat are not what one could call well informed. Although, you are getting a hard time with the 7:32 on this board as well Please forgive me



    Sure! You too will get older and wiser.



    Hmmm. At least I still have the physical ability to get in and out of any sportscar on the market Maybe that is the reason for my broader view of the sportscar spectrum. Others are restricted to Porsche. You know: easy access & comfortable seats

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    hey,

    as a porsche fan/driver and a general car enthusisat, i follow and am a member on many car boards.

    what i find very strange is that on fchat, any positive remarks i write about porsche are very often met with a very arrogant feedback. it seems that not the facts are called for. when stating there the news about the 7:32 achieved by the GT2 i get comments like:

    - Again....none of us is a race driver and I don't think many of us can even come close to those figures on NBR in any of those cars. So enjoy your cars gentlemen without trying to figure out who is faster.


    - I guess porsche people would get a hard on for this stuff. To me, It really doesn't mean much. I own one porsche and don't think that much about it! plus all the numbers seem VERY inconsistant.


    over and over again i had remarks like that when i posted how a porsche bested a ferrari in anything....

    strange folks.....



    I agree. Most posters on FChat are not what one could call well informed. Although, you are getting a hard time with the 7:32 on this board as well Please forgive me



    Sure! You too will get older and wiser.



    Hmmm. At least I still have the physical ability to get in and out of any sportscar on the market Maybe that is the reason for my broader view of the sportscar spectrum. Others are restricted to Porsche. You know: easy access & comfortable seats



    Easy access?

    Now I know what your problem is!

    You haven't been driving the right Porsches.

    You need to try the Schalensitz.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Fchat is great for getting the newest information about Ferrari, no doubt about it. And there are also some very interesting and well informed people there. But it seems as if all other cars that don't have the prancing horse on the bonnet are only second class in that community.

    We don't have such problems at rennteam, that's why I like that forum so much. Sure, the main subjects are about Porsche and sometimes, but only very, very rarely some Porsche-die-hard feels the need to defend the reputation of Stuttgart Zuffenhausen, especially when some strange user with an even more strange bouncing Italian stallion in the avatar dare to post at the 997tt forum.

    But these problems are really negligible and that's what so great about rennteam: fair an objective discussions about all kind of sports cars.



    Well said, rossi

    Would go so far to say that I've learned more re: new F's, both info re: upcoming models and insightful, well-balanced driving impressions, from rennteam than from fchat....

    Interestingly, most of guys I know in US/EU who seem to frequently buy/drive new F's (and other brands) closely follow rennteam rather than any other car forum....

    The guys who may have best insights re: upcoming F's are major repeat F custs in EU (custs who are avid drivers, not just car-worshippers )....sounds like F has very strong, interactive relationships w/major EU custs, to gain early feedback re: upcoming products....and I tend to think guys who are more accustomed to AB and mtn twisties driving in new F/P/AMG are a bit more seasoned than guys who typically drive straight, slow roads in congested, flat urban regions (aside from SF/LA, rest of relevant urban US suffers from endless slow, flat, often straight roads which often reveal far less re: any car's more nuanced dynamic qualities and prob dull one's driving skills/perceptions rapidly)....

    Though I suppose P/F/AMG can consult their US cust base for valuable feedback re: bigger cupholders and wider seats...

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    hey,

    as a porsche fan/driver and a general car enthusisat, i follow and am a member on many car boards.

    what i find very strange is that on fchat, any positive remarks i write about porsche are very often met with a very arrogant feedback. it seems that not the facts are called for. when stating there the news about the 7:32 achieved by the GT2 i get comments like:

    - Again....none of us is a race driver and I don't think many of us can even come close to those figures on NBR in any of those cars. So enjoy your cars gentlemen without trying to figure out who is faster.


    - I guess porsche people would get a hard on for this stuff. To me, It really doesn't mean much. I own one porsche and don't think that much about it! plus all the numbers seem VERY inconsistant.


    over and over again i had remarks like that when i posted how a porsche bested a ferrari in anything....

    strange folks.....



    I agree. Most posters on FChat are not what one could call well informed. Although, you are getting a hard time with the 7:32 on this board as well Please forgive me



    Sure! You too will get older and wiser.



    Hmmm. At least I still have the physical ability to get in and out of any sportscar on the market Maybe that is the reason for my broader view of the sportscar spectrum. Others are restricted to Porsche. You know: easy access & comfortable seats



    Easy access?

    Now I know what your problem is!

    You haven't been driving the right Porsches.

    You need to try the Schalensitz.



    Entering them is easy, but getting out of them

    Just kidding, I might even order the new GT2 seats for my non-GT2 Porche



    (please note the spelling)

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Though I have problems with objectionable posts, I cannot help to ask why did you feel it necessary to post the GT2 rumored Ring time on a Ferrari site. My view it was a clear attempt to rub the performance of the Gt2 into the face of Ferrari owners.Thus in many ways you instigated the hostile responses.

    One thing Porsche owners fail to understand that to Ferrari owners speed isn't everything. There are many other factors that drive a person to own a Ferrari. ALSO,never lose sight of one indisputable fact.

    ALL FERRARI OWNERS CAN AFFORD TO BUY A PORSCHE IF THEY CHOSE TO DO SO. HOWEVER, NOT ALL PORSCHE OWNERS CAN AFFORD TO BUY A FERRARI EVEN IF THEY WANTED ONE!

    Finally, if the alleged time is correct, how does that make the curent CGT owners feel? Once again Porsche pulls the rug from underneath them. Sell a car which has as good if not better performance parameters for less than half price of their premier model. Porsche never lets me down.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Nick, would that apply to the people who bought the V-12 powered ENZO and now find that the same engine can be found in the way cheaper 599??

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    Cueto said:
    Nick, would that apply to the people who bought the V-12 powered ENZO and now find that the same engine can be found in the way cheaper 599??



    The Enzo performance numbers are better than the 599. Also, the Enzo still commands an almost 50% premium over MSRP. Compare that to the CGT which had been in a free fall value wise and recently just firmed up. Now Porschephiles can buy a new car (997GT2) with a four year warranty which will be as good as the CGT. What do you think is going to happen to CGT prices?

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    ALL FERRARI OWNERS CAN AFFORD TO BUY A PORSCHE IF THEY CHOSE TO DO SO. HOWEVER, NOT ALL PORSCHE OWNERS CAN AFFORD TO BUY A FERRARI EVEN IF THEY WANTED ONE!




    Is this really true? I thought that the depreciation of the Porsche makes the cost of ownership more, not less than the Ferrari.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    ALL FERRARI OWNERS CAN AFFORD TO BUY A PORSCHE IF THEY CHOSE TO DO SO. HOWEVER, NOT ALL PORSCHE OWNERS CAN AFFORD TO BUY A FERRARI EVEN IF THEY WANTED ONE!




    Absolutely not true in the US, as if you slept with the dealer you can drive one for free...

    Depreciation is what counts in terms of affordability, not the car's price.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Finally, if the alleged time is correct, how does that make the curent CGT owners feel? Once again Porsche pulls the rug from underneath them. Sell a car which has as good if not better performance parameters for less than half price of their premier model. Porsche never lets me down.



    That is called progress, Porsche has made a lot of mistakes lately, but lauching a GT2 with world class performance (if proved) is not one of them. Au contraire.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Nice site if you can sort through Jim Glickenhaus' constant self-promotion (which is not just limited to f-chat). Love his car though.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:

    ALL FERRARI OWNERS CAN AFFORD TO BUY A PORSCHE IF THEY CHOSE TO DO SO. HOWEVER, NOT ALL PORSCHE OWNERS CAN AFFORD TO BUY A FERRARI EVEN IF THEY WANTED ONE!




    Absolutely not true in the US, as if you slept with the dealer you can drive one for free...

    Depreciation is what counts in terms of affordability, not the car's price.



    I am puzzled about the point your trying to make.

    Alan, most Ferrari owners probably were prior Porsche owners.It is not often that a Ferrari owner goes back to owning solely a Porsche unless there are unusual circumstances.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Having owned Ferrari over the years, it must be understood that there is a difference between Ferrari owners. My experience has been that those who own 3 series vehicles, ie 308/328/348/355/360 etc., conversations resemble more the muscle car people. Mustang VS Camero and the never ending chase for horsepower. They are a very different person than those who purchase and want to own the 2+2 series, ie 250/330/365/400/412/456/612. It is as if there are two different levels of psychological maturity. And it seems that it is the 3 series owner that we most often hear from. Ferrarichat can provide very usefull information as long as one doesn't fall over some of the ego trips.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    On F-chat there are plenty of people that come on there that like to stir the pot and claim another car brand is better etc. I never quite understood this. Anyway, to claim 997GT2 'ring times are X throws a little gas on the fire. What would you expect? It probably be the same if the roles were reversed. F-owners usually think they're something so they easily get their feathers ruffled.

    Own both so you can secretly claim supremacy in both camps

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    That is precisely why I love Rennteam, you can have a love for any marque and not have some sort of hostality focused at you. I don't give a rats ass, which marque is better, more powerful, expensive, depreciates more - if it puts a smile on my face that's all I need

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    connoisseur said:
    Ferrarichat can provide very usefull information as long as one doesn't fall over some of the ego trips.



    Exactly what I think. Nevertheless you won't get such high quality discussions at Fchat that you can read here at rennteam.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    That is precisely why I love Rennteam, you can have a love for any marque and not have some sort of hostality focused at you. I don't give a rats ass, which marque is better, more powerful, expensive, depreciates more - if it puts a smile on my face that's all I need



    Well Mike, you can talk! You got them all!

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    especially when some strange user with an even more strange bouncing Italian stallion in the avatar dare to post at the 997tt forum.




    I think I have seen the guy you are talking about



    Really? Damn, who is it?

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    its not about supremacy...its about objective observations.

    nberry....cars and technologies advance...what was one day the epitome of performance may no longer be....otherwise we would be standing still...

    people who can afford a 911 Turbo can easily afford a ferrari as well.....it's other reasons that make one opt for one marque rather than the other...

    to me personally, f-cars are too flashy and too mujch of a statement...porsche is much more docile and understated.

    thats why i have no problem with my forthcoming GT2 to be mistaken for a base carrera.....

    to each his own....but a good discussion is still a good discussion.

    let's see how the reactions will be when GT2 performance is confirmed...

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    That is precisely why I love Rennteam, you can have a love for any marque and not have some sort of hostality focused at you. I don't give a rats ass, which marque is better, more powerful, expensive, depreciates more - if it puts a smile on my face that's all I need



    Well Mike, you can talk! You got them all!



    That's not true! Lies I tell you...lies!

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    " people who can afford a 911 Turbo can easily afford a ferrari as well.....it's other reasons that make one opt for one marque rather than the other... "

    Not in the US. A Ferrari is usually 30 to 50% more costly than the base 997TT.

    BTW performance at the level of Ferrari or TT,GT2, GT3 is irrelevant for public driving. If you get your jollies off knowing the GT2 does the Ring in 7.31 have the time stenciled on your windshield. See how many people are impressed.

    Those who know cars know speed is not what a car is all about.

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    Those who know cars know speed is not what a car is all about.



    I guess most sportscar lovers can agree with that, but it seems (judging from your statement in bold letters) that for you it's all about: look I can afford an F-car, my neighbour in the P can't

    Though I agree with you, that for driving in real world conditions NBR-times are irrelevant. W. Röhrl, commenting on the performance of the CGT said: every owner who is sane in his head will use max. 50% of the car's capabilities on public roads.
    Hence the buying decision for 99% of the buyers (maybe except hardcore track junkies) is based on other facts - IMO primarily on how well the entire package fits the owners feeling of driving pleasure and driving skills (both very subjective parameters).

    Having said that, NBR-times still are an important indicator about any car's performance - of course no mortal driver is able to fully use this capabilities, but they may think: my car would, if I could Those NBR-numbers are good for the carmakers' marketing departments as well for the ego of some owners

    Re: Ferrarichat.com



    Those who know cars know speed is not what a car is all about.



    That's right, it's ALL about posing

    driving fast, track use, ... that's not what Ferrari stands for

    Re: Ferrarichat.com

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:

    Those who know cars know speed is not what a car is all about.



    I guess most sportscar lovers can agree with that, but it seems (judging from your statement in bold letters) that for you it's all about: look I can afford an F-car, my neighbour in the P can't

    Though I agree with you, that for driving in real world conditions NBR-times are irrelevant. W. Röhrl, commenting on the performance of the CGT said: every owner who is sane in his head will use max. 50% of the car's capabilities on public roads.
    Hence the buying decision for 99% of the buyers (maybe except hardcore track junkies) is based on other facts - IMO primarily on how well the entire package fits the owners feeling of driving pleasure and driving skills (both very subjective parameters).

    Having said that, NBR-times still are an important indicator about any car's performance - of course no mortal driver is able to fully use this capabilities, but they may think: my car would, if I could Those NBR-numbers are good for the carmakers' marketing departments as well for the ego of some owners



    My point is that those of us who own Ferrari's can easily own Porsche's. We choose not to. It has nothing to do with ego or vanity. I drive a Minicooper for my daily work.

    Patriek, do you track your 430? If so how often. If not, are you a poseur?

     
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