Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 991 - Carrera Language: English Region: Worldwide - Europe Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Winter rims & tyres

    How about some advice for a nice set of 20 inch rims for the 991- not especially Porsche but without issue regarding the TPM  ?

     

     


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    In the market myself, but the steady advice is to go down to 19" for the winter if you expect to drive in snow


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    A bit of advice from a Porsche fan who happens to currently work in the courier business heart

    I would think that a Tire Pressure Monitroing system should be compatible with any other TPM system!

    I could be terribly wrong about that. I recently found from a guy (who is  around 80 yrs if that matters) that when he encountered some road debis which took out both of his passenger (right) side tires; he got all four replaced for nearly $980.  That may not seem too extreeme for a sports car, but for a working car; it is a bit much!!

    His car is not only a VW but he told me that wider contact tires get better tracktion.  I really had to restrain myslef not to tell him that only in dry conditions does that apply. 

    Just thinking that if you want to drive your 911 in inclement weather, the smaller wheel diamater with the higher profile tires, and the minimal tire width; might be a good thing for overall traction???


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    I put 18' on my 997 ( down from 19' in summer )  and I forget about the TPM for the winter .

    The narrower and higher the better ,ON SNOW .   I drive my car to ski resorts  and do not have too many issues. A good tyre is essential and makes a big difference . I would not go for 20' .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    Gnil,

    What brand of tire are you using for winter?  Pirelli seems 'standard' but Michelin has better reviews for snow conditions. 

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    got the 20" with rims & TPM from Porsche. Michelin fitted. The mechanic (not a salesman) told me that TPM from non-porsche sometimes cause troubles... 


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    I have bought TSW 20" Innsbruck wheels in black on my 991 4S Cab. Very pleased with them!


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    Picture;


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    TSW.jpg


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    Speedy1:

    Gnil,

    What brand of tire are you using for winter?  Pirelli seems 'standard' but Michelin has better reviews for snow conditions. 

     

    Currently I have the Pirelli . There are a good compromise for me .  I had the Nokian in the past . They were better on snow but worse on dry roads . As I drive 85% of the time on non snowy roads during the winter , the Pirelli work fine as they are good on dry/wet roads . I have not tried the Michelin . The Continentals have very good reviews also but not sure if N approved .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    Frank46:

    I have bought TSW 20" Innsbruck wheels in black on my 991 4S Cab. Very pleased with them!

    It looks very good !


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    Gnil:

    I put 18' on my 997 ( down from 19' in summer )  and I forget about the TPM for the winter .

    The narrower and higher the better ,ON SNOW .   I drive my car to ski resorts  and do not have too many issues. A good tyre is essential and makes a big difference . I would not go for 20' .

    The myth of the narrower and higher winter tire never dies. Smiley

    http://www.daserste.de/information/ratgeber-service/auto-reise-verkehr/sendung/swr/winterreifen-200113-102.html

    Just one article, there are many more.

    However: When considering the same tire with the same profile and compound mixture, the narrower tire makes more sense. The "higher" winter tire is an advantage not to damage the tire/rim in higher snow when you cannot really see what is beneath.

    Also, the smaller rims (19'' instead of 20'') have an essential advantage: They are usually cheaper, cheaper to replace and the tires too. Also the "height" of the tire is usually higher, thus the tire is less prone to damage in higher snow when you cannot see what is beneath the snow. A larger stone can already do some nasty damage to a low profile rim.

    Especially in regions with lots of snow, All-Season tires should be avoided. Actually (someone will kill me again Smiley) All-Season tires are not recommended for an 911 because they offer subpar performance in the dry and almost the same in rain and especially snow. People may save a buck or two but in the end, the 911 experience suffers a lot.

    High quality tires are very important but especially in regions with lots of snow, I would stick to the Porsche OEM recommendation with N-rating. They are usually pretty good on dry pavement but are quite acceptable in snow too. The smaller the diameter (19'' vs. 20''), the better the snow capabilities (Porsche apparently assumes that people who live in snow rich regions prefer the smaller diameter, so the 19'' tires usually perform better in snow than the 20'', not a rule though).

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    I got 19" Michelin Alpin "N" on my 991. I have to say they feel like driving on thick rubber. Of course, they are still brand new and that feeling will probably change, but the car is so soft compared to the 20" Pirelli summer set before. It doesn't feel confident yet!


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    Lars997:

    I got 19" Michelin Alpin "N" on my 991. I have to say they feel like driving on thick rubber. Of course, they are still brand new and that feeling will probably change, but the car is so soft compared to the 20" Pirelli summer set before. It doesn't feel confident yet!

    Don't worry, the the feel will "settle". I had the same issues with my 20'' Pirelli Sottozero Winter (991 Turbo S), especially since the temperature was 14°C when I picked up the car. During the weekend, we had 3°C and the tires already felt much better, especially since I already did 200 km with them.

    I like the Dunlop Winter SP3 I have on my Cayenne GTS most, they really feel pretty good and "firm".


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    RC:
    Lars997:

    I got 19" Michelin Alpin "N" on my 991. I have to say they feel like driving on thick rubber. Of course, they are still brand new and that feeling will probably change, but the car is so soft compared to the 20" Pirelli summer set before. It doesn't feel confident yet!

    Don't worry, the the feel will "settle". I had the same issues with my 20'' Pirelli Sottozero Winter (991 Turbo S), especially since the temperature was 14°C when I picked up the car. During the weekend, we had 3°C and the tires already felt much better, especially since I already did 200 km with them.

    I like the Dunlop Winter SP3 I have on my Cayenne GTS most, they really feel pretty good and "firm".

    Yep - I think so too! I didnt drive the car the last 3 weeks and ahead of my vacation it was almost 20 degrees - certainly they have to feel soft! :)


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    RC:
    The myth of the narrower and higher winter tire never dies. Smiley

     The smaller the diameter (19'' vs. 20''), the better the snow capabilities (Porsche apparently assumes that people who live in snow rich regions prefer the smaller diameter, so the 19'' tires usually perform better in snow than the 20'', not a rule though).

     

    Are you not contradicting yourself Smiley

    Anyway , I suppose those guys are wrong then.. Please inform them  Smiley   I know these are different as they have ' nails' , but basically a narrow and higher tyre will better in fresh snow then a wide one . Now I drive with 285 at the back and can go anywhere , but that does not take away that it would be more efficient with a narrower .

    458055.jpg

     

    sweden hirvonen 2008.jpg


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    Kill you RC? lol. Not at all. I just feel compelled to pass on my actual observations and try to remind you that what you say totally contradicts what I have witnessed for many years and 10's of thousands of miles. As I stated (many) times - in a speed limited country like the US, given the cold and varied climate I drive in and the MANY highway miles I drive at a mind numbing <80mph my DWS all season tires made perfect sense on the 997S (I got 25K miles plus out of a set vs. max 8K out of N tires!!!). They offered amazing cold weather traction that summer tires could not match (meaning they are faster in the cold) and excellent wet weather traction which far exceeded any summer tire I have used (read faster). In light snow of course they performed much better as well without needing winter tires (no mountains around here). Again, my only gripe with your analysis is that you have NEVER tried the tires I have. You dismiss them out of hand and simply attack anyone who does. Not very wise, why would I be lying about how good they are? You speak of generic All season tires (any specifics at all?) NOT Ultra HIGH Performance tires like the Conti DWS - which are the same size, speed rating and load ratings as the N tire only with a longer lasting compound that allows cold weather use in addition.(PS Conti also made N rated tires at the time) I don't go by what others say - I actually try them and then pass on my observations. Note that even in F1 they have to make a compromise between speed and longevity. They use tests and stop watches to formulate strategy NOT just  warnings from people who have no experience with the product. If you had similar first hand observations they might interest me but frankly I can't compare what you are passing on as other peoples advice to the thousands of miles and years of actual use that I have experienced. You know I am a performance driver and have a lifelong commitment to Porsche and speed - these tires to not detract from the Porsche experience one bit.  You may loose 5% all out dry weather traction in exchange for much better all around traction which is more useable plus you get four times the tire life at about 1/2 the price or less.  To me that is a smart compromise.  Tire safety is 100% not an issue at all in my mind - these tires are not any more likely to fail than N rated tires.  You can drive too fast for any tire so drive error has the same potential as always.  If anything - driving on worn out N rated tires to get the last few expensive miles out of them is far more dangerous as is driving summer tires in cold weather.  F1 drives don't go bouncing of the barriers when they switch to the hard compound but they do wreck when old worn out tires fall apart.

     You simply can't convince me that what I have personally experienced is not so. Remind us all please that you have not tried these tires at all AND that I am the only one on this forum here who seems to have. If anyone else has tried these please chime in. Reviews are available on TireRack Yes the N rated summer tires will be fast on the track but I don't track cars. The only corners I take are on the street - city and neighborhood streets - the DWS tires are totally fine and have excellent traction for that and if I were to try to exploit the advantage a summer tire might offer I would be in jail without a car in a matter of days (perhaps minutes). I can put 5000 miles on a set of tires in a month (or less) droning down the highways all over the US - does it makes sense to buy tires that fit my requirements? If you know you are going to follow the safety car all race long in F1 you will go for the Hard compound and not change tires so much! Even if the DWS cost the same as the N rated tires I would still prefer them for the type of driving I did with that car. Less time spent in the shop fitting tires means more time driving.

    Notice I am speaking of the 997S and the way I drove that car. Not the Turbo... it is a beast. Doubt I will put all season tires on it and instead buy some rims and snow tires for it to shred.

     


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    RC:
    Gnil:

    I put 18' on my 997 ( down from 19' in summer )  and I forget about the TPM for the winter .

    The narrower and higher the better ,ON SNOW .   I drive my car to ski resorts  and do not have too many issues. A good tyre is essential and makes a big difference . I would not go for 20' .

    The myth of the narrower and higher winter tire never dies. Smiley

    http://www.daserste.de/information/ratgeber-service/auto-reise-verkehr/sendung/swr/winterreifen-200113-102.html

    Just one article, there are many more.

    However: When considering the same tire with the same profile and compound mixture, the narrower tire makes more sense. The "higher" winter tire is an advantage not to damage the tire/rim in higher snow when you cannot really see what is beneath.

    Also, the smaller rims (19'' instead of 20'') have an essential advantage: They are usually cheaper, cheaper to replace and the tires too. Also the "height" of the tire is usually higher, thus the tire is less prone to damage in higher snow when you cannot see what is beneath the snow. A larger stone can already do some nasty damage to a low profile rim.

    Especially in regions with lots of snow, All-Season tires should be avoided. Actually (someone will kill me again Smiley) All-Season tires are not recommended for an 911 because they offer subpar performance in the dry and almost the same in rain and especially snow. People may save a buck or two but in the end, the 911 experience suffers a lot.

    High quality tires are very important but especially in regions with lots of snow, I would stick to the Porsche OEM recommendation with N-rating. They are usually pretty good on dry pavement but are quite acceptable in snow too. The smaller the diameter (19'' vs. 20''), the better the snow capabilities (Porsche apparently assumes that people who live in snow rich regions prefer the smaller diameter, so the 19'' tires usually perform better in snow than the 20'', not a rule though).

     

    I have to admit, I think you're bordering on dangerous territory saying those things. My German isn't nearly good enough anymore to read that article but at the end of the day (through experience of a very snowy country, being around rallying and doing a little of it - Though my dad was a pro rallyier when I was little, talking to tire techs etc.) this whole thing amounts to little more than contact patch shape.

    I seem to remember having this conversation/argument before but all things being equal, the weight of the car and the tire pressure will dictate the total area of the contact patch while the width and height will dictate the shape of the area. Low profile , wide tires will have a short but wide contact patch. Good for corners. Higher profile, narrower tires will have a long, narrow contact patch. Good for straight traction (acceleration and braking). Drag cars have tall narrow tires for a reason!

    The more spirited your winter driving the more benefit you would get from wider tires but really tall narrow tires that both cut through the snow and give a contact patch with lots of straight traction points will give you better acceleration through snow.

    Sorry, but this isn't a myth...


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    My olny point was that for any given rim diameteter, there is an applicable tire which will not only be an appropriate fit, but also will be a correct fit for expected weather conditions.  Dependent on weather expectations! Frankly, I own a couple of POS automibiles and am about to add an '85 500 SLC to the collection. It is just an ancient auto, but for my daughters first car, I could care less if she screwes up and totals the thing!  (As long as she does it before I restore the paint job)  We are still contemplating the decision,  but if she buys it and it dies; I will buy it and bring it back to life. It really is just too pretty to appreciate.


    Re: Winter rims & tyres

    Gnil:
    RC:
    The myth of the narrower and higher winter tire never dies. Smiley

     The smaller the diameter (19'' vs. 20''), the better the snow capabilities (Porsche apparently assumes that people who live in snow rich regions prefer the smaller diameter, so the 19'' tires usually perform better in snow than the 20'', not a rule though).

     

    Are you not contradicting yourself Smiley

    Anyway , I suppose those guys are wrong then.. Please inform them  Smiley   I know these are different as they have ' nails' , but basically a narrow and higher tyre will better in fresh snow then a wide one . Now I drive with 285 at the back and can go anywhere , but that does not take away that it would be more efficient with a narrower .

    458055.jpg

     

    sweden hirvonen 2008.jpg


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    I am not contradicting myself but maybe I wasn't too clear with my "Porsche claim".

    Porsche assumes that those who use the smaller diameter use their cars more on snow and ice than those with larger diameter. Thus, they provide the OEM kits with smaller diameter with tires with better snow capabilities and those with larger diameter with better rain/dry capabilities. This isn't a rule though but it has been done for quite some while, which makes sense.

    As to the photos you posted: These tires have spikes, should I even bother continue explaining the rest to you? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
    576503 2849
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 12/30/20 9:03 AM
    rhino
     
     
     
     
     
    356400 1279
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/10/21 2:32 PM
    Joost
    85634 1085
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/4/21 8:01 AM
    bluelines
    43201 328
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    35014 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
    32628 380
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 4/9/21 2:25 PM
    Porker
    14729 297
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    4091 29
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 7/27/20 2:13 AM
    DJM48
    560585 5257
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 4/20/20 8:24 AM
    schmoell
    533197 4260
    Porsche Cayman GT4 4/10/21 1:32 PM
    Moser
    400005 3569
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 3/16/21 8:04 AM
    DJM48
    354933 3911
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 12/27/20 4:06 PM
    Topspeed
    352057 3486
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 11/5/20 9:55 PM
    DaveGordon
    312174 3242
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
    309497 2646
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/28/21 8:05 PM
    Topspeed
    215004 1542
    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
    182068 4279
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    160198 1379
    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
    137917 792
    Porsche 992 GT3 4/10/21 10:35 PM
    xpto
    106558 1990
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    105209 1225
    McLaren F1 2/25/21 11:33 AM
    RCA
    76974 207
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 3/15/21 7:26 PM
    Enmanuel
    69281 1151
    AMG AMG GT R 11/19/20 11:47 PM
    Topspeed
    64423 819
    Lambo Aventador and SV 3/15/21 3:59 PM
    Topspeed
    63285 679
    Porsche 991 Speedster 9/3/20 4:29 PM
    Topspeed
    56248 878
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    42875 596
    Others Bugatti Chiron 4/10/21 11:02 PM
    bluelines
    36132 475
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    33487 615
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 3/21/21 5:01 PM
    Topspeed
    28526 385
    271 items found, displaying 1 to 30.