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    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    Atzporsche, you are giving them ideas for the FL for free!
    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    Atzporsche:

    better.JPG

     Why didn't she look like this Smiley


    --

    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd


            now this is a good looking Panamera. Maybe there's a technical reason this can't be done in a cost-effective manner?


    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    neunelf:
    Atzporsche:

    better.JPG

     Why didn't she look like this Smiley


    --

    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd


            now this is a good looking Panamera. Maybe there's a technical reason this can't be done in a cost-effective manner?

    I bet you that if it was designed like this, someone would come with a proposal similar to the real one and many people would have prefered it.

    Human nature!


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    Very right  reginos , but I can't stop thinking how sharper rear lights and less bulbous glass in the 5th door , would make Panamera much better looking  (in my mind)

    Misha p-shop close-up 01.JPG

    Pana crna M  p-shop.JPG


    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    RC:

    I don't care too much about comments from designers, simply because they're NOT a customer who have to DRIVE and OWN such a crappy design.


            I posted this comment because it just happens that Chris Hrabalek is also a very financially health  person that just happens to be the director of Fenomenon Ltd. the company that is responsabile for the rebirth of the Lancia Stratos, also he owns the largest and most prestigious collection of Lancia Stratos in the world (   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Hrabalek http://www.stratossupersite.com/Stratos2000.htm ), apart from coming from a family with a background that I think qualifies him fro being a possible owner of a Panamera.

     


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    RC,

    You said something that was very telling,

    ".....The only reason I would buy the Panamera would be the performance/technical part. This is the same reason I went for the Cayenne Turbo, despite my disliking of the look."

    I suspect that the Panamera will also be a financial success, for the same reasons.


    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    964C2:

    RC,

    You said something that was very telling,

    ".....The only reason I would buy the Panamera would be the performance/technical part. This is the same reason I went for the Cayenne Turbo, despite my disliking of the look."

    I suspect that the Panamera will also be a financial success, for the same reasons.

    You are very correct, luxury limousines from BMW and Mercedes are very dull to drive with artificial steering feel and handle like boats without the electronics.

    I would only get near these cars if one day I have a driver and I sit in the back.

    I expect the Panamera to have the Porsche DNA amongst limousines.



    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    ed_moree:
    RC:

    I don't care too much about comments from designers, simply because they're NOT a customer who have to DRIVE and OWN such a crappy design.


            I posted this comment because it just happens that Chris Hrabalek is also a very financially health  person that just happens to be the director of Fenomenon Ltd. the company that is responsabile for the rebirth of the Lancia Stratos, also he owns the largest and most prestigious collection of Lancia Stratos in the world (   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Hrabalek http://www.stratossupersite.com/Stratos2000.htm ), apart from coming from a family with a background that I think qualifies him fro being a possible owner of a Panamera.

     


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    Sorry, I didn't want to offend you with my comment. Smiley

    I just wanted to point out that I appreciate comments from owners or potential owners because this is what really counts. Chris Hrabalek may be able to afford a Panamera but I'm not sure he would really buy one.

    I actually have my problems to understand WHO  would be a potential customer for the Panamera. With the current financial crisis worldwide, most potential customers are actually gone in my opinion. No "manager" can afford to be seen in a new Porsche limousine if he/she just fired a couple of thousands of employees. Smiley

    Rich people in Russia/China (emerging markets?) also avoid spending too much money on too flashy stuff, simply because they don't want to provoke other people. Another reason is that they simply can't afford "toys" anymore.

    I still think that Porsche should be VERY careful about where they establish the Panamera price-wise. The Panamera enters a market which is already very well established with very strong competitors. Another problem is, like I mentioned before, the current financial crisis. The Panamera is a Porsche, looks different than the usual BMW 7 series, Mercedes S class or Audi A8, it is too flashy for many european business men and I'm afraid it isn't much different in the US right now.

    So if Porsche wants to succeed, I would offer the Panamera at a very competitive price tag. Later on, when the world financial situation improves, they can add a Turbo S, GT or whatever to their model range, charging an arm and a leg for these top models.

    Time will tell but I would be very surprised if Porsche sells 20000 Panamera in the first year.

    Right now, Dacia sold in Germany more cars than Porsche and this is not good at all. 


    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    RC,your analysis makes sense.

    I was talking to the Porsche Zentrum here, today and they said again that the Panamera will be at around Cayenne prices which are not far from the comparable SUVs from BMW etc.

    I don't think PAG are stupid to kill the baby at birth. We'll see.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    Spyderidol:
    I actually quite like the back! (yes, I'm taking my meds)Smiley

            Try doubling the dose....Smiley


    --
    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    Whoopsy:

    From looking at these pics, I fianlly realize what the rear profile resembles --> the 928 rear hatch profile.


            Better not let RacerX read this post.....Smiley


    --
    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    RC:
    ed_moree:
    RC:

    I don't care too much about comments from designers, simply because they're NOT a customer who have to DRIVE and OWN such a crappy design.


            I posted this comment because it just happens that Chris Hrabalek is also a very financially health  person that just happens to be the director of Fenomenon Ltd. the company that is responsabile for the rebirth of the Lancia Stratos, also he owns the largest and most prestigious collection of Lancia Stratos in the world (   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Hrabalek http://www.stratossupersite.com/Stratos2000.htm ), apart from coming from a family with a background that I think qualifies him fro being a possible owner of a Panamera.

     


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    Sorry, I didn't want to offend you with my comment. Smiley

    I just wanted to point out that I appreciate comments from owners or potential owners because this is what really counts. Chris Hrabalek may be able to afford a Panamera but I'm not sure he would really buy one.

    I actually have my problems to understand WHO  would be a potential customer for the Panamera. With the current financial crisis worldwide, most potential customers are actually gone in my opinion. No "manager" can afford to be seen in a new Porsche limousine if he/she just fired a couple of thousands of employees. Smiley

    Rich people in Russia/China (emerging markets?) also avoid spending too much money on too flashy stuff, simply because they don't want to provoke other people. Another reason is that they simply can't afford "toys" anymore.

    I still think that Porsche should be VERY careful about where they establish the Panamera price-wise. The Panamera enters a market which is already very well established with very strong competitors. Another problem is, like I mentioned before, the current financial crisis. The Panamera is a Porsche, looks different than the usual BMW 7 series, Mercedes S class or Audi A8, it is too flashy for many european business men and I'm afraid it isn't much different in the US right now.

    So if Porsche wants to succeed, I would offer the Panamera at a very competitive price tag. Later on, when the world financial situation improves, they can add a Turbo S, GT or whatever to their model range, charging an arm and a leg for these top models.

    Time will tell but I would be very surprised if Porsche sells 20000 Panamera in the first year.

    Right now, Dacia sold in Germany more cars than Porsche and this is not good at all. 

     


    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

            You didn’t offended me RC, it is just that this days a lot of people just feel like in the position of commenting like a pro about looks, design and aesthetics without even the slightest idea of what implies all this, about balance of an object the compromise that involves producing a car and especially when you are Porsche and normally everything is seen with 911 eyes. And this is the price paid for having in your portfolio a full of character car like the 911.

     

    And I agree with almost everything you say here just that I was really expecting an opinion of someone with the knowledge about car design and as you say a potential client. Now to be clear about me: I don´t want a Panamera, and my company car does it as a 4 door car, and always for me it will be one of the cars from Boxster or Cayman that will do it. Also I really don´t like the looks of the Cayenne and I agree with you on your comments about it. About the Panamera, I don´t like it in a way I like the 911, Boxster and Cayman. It does not enter thru my eyes so easy and instant, and the rear end is quite challenging and not that well balanced as I was hoping for. But at the same time if you look at Porsche history all the models, and I don´t think I´m wrong… maybe apart from Carrera GT and 959, that where not 911 (well the 959… was) where received quite bad by everyone. And even the 911 when first come out was considered as not a proper Porsche. So I just say that the Panamera goes the same way but for this and for the way Porsche challenges you with their cars is why I consider the Panamera a good design. I think as a 911 is somehow challenging to be driven in the same way the client somewhere in his/her head expects the same challenge from the looks even if until you get used to it…well I think is a trademark of Porsche. And also I agree with you that in this financial conditions even I see the Panamera difficult to be sold at 20000 a year. But also the first 911 Turbo had the same problem in the 70s. Also the 928 had the same problem, if you read the press form that time everyone was talking about the looks of not being Porsche and so on… and now even on this forum when I said to someone, I don´t remember who, that the 928 it is nice but not that nice… he was almost to kill me… So I just think that the guys at Porsche have done the right job, and maybe we will have a surprise in one or the other way… hope in the good one! I consider the Panamera to be the right car for what they want to do. Smiley

    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    To me at least, Porsche have decided to base the Panamera on the ugliest Porsche ever previously designed - the Cayenne.  They seem to have taken all the Cayenne's awkward looking lines and applied them to a limo.

    I can at least respect the Cayenne for it's special off-road and on-road multi-talented abilities, and thereby look passed the hideous exterior. It's good for family/pets transportation too making it a swiss-army-knife of a vehicle.  I am pretty sure most buyers bought it for this reason, and DESPITE the looks.  Good sales are not to be confused with good design Porsche...

    Other than being a comfortable and fast motorway cruiser, I don't see where the Panamera can excel when up against other limos to make you want to pay a premium for this the newly crowned f'ugliest of all f'ugly cars.  You aren't exactly going to take this car out for a 'spin' like it was a sports car, so good handling and track times are pretty irrelevant.

    Sorry Porsche, I just don't get it...


    --


    Click for bigger picture!


    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    Good posts for deliberation and thought.  For my part, I am buying a Cayenne Turbo S in April because I truly like the looks and the performance package.  I respect those of you who think the Cayenne is "fugly", but just disagree.  I own two Porsches now, and have owned at least 15 Porsches in the past, starting with a 912 in 1966, several early 911s, a 904, a 1976 Turbo, etc., on up through a highly modified 996TT and a Carrera 2S.  I am as excited about the Cayenne as I have been about all the others.  I am well over 60, but with a young and beautiful wife and two wonderful young children.  Somehow a powerful Cayenne hits me just right for my situation.  Will I trade it in a few years for a PDK FL 997TT?  Probably, but meantime I am going to have a ball.

    On buying a Panamera now in this economic climate, each person has to judge their own circumstances.  A bank manager or investment broker better watch his step, but  a successful private businessman deserves to buy what he wants for all his risks and hard work.   I worked hard as a young lawyer, and bought a new 1976TT during the gas crisis of the 1970's.  I got many admiring comments, because I drove the car safely and considerately.  

    Also, as goofy as it may sound, I have great admiration for Porsche dealers and salespersons.  This is a tough time for them, and frankly if I can support them by a fair-priced purchase, I am going to do it. 

    Finally, I do not think the Panamera is flashy, or says look at me.  I think it is unique, tastefully designed and quite sophisticated

     


    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    In the US I am hearing Cayenne +15/20%...

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    I just came back from London and the Geneva auto show (though I didn't see the Panamera parked out in one of the lots there, so I can't claim to have seen it in the flesh, alas). I saw almost as many hot cars crawling around London as at the show.

    I may be going out on a limb here, but really good design seems pretty much universal in its appeal. On the margin people might differ, but, talking sports cars: the 911, the 430, the new Massarati GT, the DB9, the DBS...even the R8  - at least with color coordinated side panels - I saw a shiny all-black one in Hampstead - seems to me like a really beautiful woman. You may prefer blonds or brunettes, but a dazzling woman will stop everyone.

    And our response to design (and women!) is surely visceral, emotional, not intellectual.

    I don't need a Christian Hrabalek to intellectualize on why I should like a design. If I like it, his insights add nothing and if I don't, no amount of intellectual argument will change my emotional response or lack thereof.

    I frankly don't understand why Porsche would create the Panamera design. It doesn't seem to have any harmony, any emotional appeal, at least in the many photos I have seen, especially from the side. And I can't imagine it growing on me.

    If it did, it would almost certainly be my next car.






    --
    997 C4S FL

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    Panamera Turbo in Barcelona-real life pics...


    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    How come these cars are seen on the road?

    I mean, the car isn't for sale yet. Does this mean that all cars seen now are delar cars?

    -Joost-


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    No dealer cars, 6 cars are for the top manager from Porsche. All other cars are test cars.
    --

    AM


    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    Would seem to me an effective marketing campaign if nothing else to have people driving Panameras around major cities.

    To my eye, the silver looks the best so far, at least in a photo, but especially from the side the car looks truly awkward to me.

    This is one of the comments left on the Autoweek site where they have posted photos of a Panamera with Georgia (US) plates:

    Papa Rotzi wrote:
    OMG - this car is ugly? What are they smoking/drinking/injecting these days? Tell Porsche to stare at pics of the Aston Martin Rapide for a week then crush this abomination and try again. I don't see ONE angle where this "thing" looks remotely attractive. Looks like the AMC Marlin from the rear 3/4 view. One word to describe this: yuck.
    3/12/2009 7:03 PM EDT

    OK, probably not a potential Panamera customer, but I do think he has a point!



    --
    997 C4S FL

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    By the way, this one is equipped with the adaptative cruise control (ACC) (see the hole under the tag)


    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    Joost:

    How come these cars are seen on the road?

    I mean, the car isn't for sale yet. Does this mean that all cars seen now are delar cars?

    -Joost-


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Barcelona cars are for official pics

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    Ahh, ok, thanks!

    My opinion about the car:

    1. I don't understand the niche it was designed for.

    2. The looks... hmmm, I think some of the design lines (esp the rear and the transition between the front bonnet and the windscreen) are really awkward. From some angles the car seems to look ok though.

    3. I am confident that (like with the cayenne) the panamera will be the best in it's class. However, I am also confident that it will be heavily overprized and probably lack a lot of the toys people seem to like in a >100k car.

    4. If only porsche would return to making the best sportscars in the world...


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    Joost:

    Ahh, ok, thanks!

    My opinion about the car:

    1. I don't understand the niche it was designed for.

    2. The looks... hmmm, I think some of the design lines (esp the rear and the transition between the front bonnet and the windscreen) are really awkward. From some angles the car seems to look ok though.

    3. I am confident that (like with the cayenne) the panamera will be the best in it's class. However, I am also confident that it will be heavily overprized and probably lack a lot of the toys people seem to like in a >100k car.

    4. If only porsche would return to making the best sportscars in the world...


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys
    Pricing is actually very good compared with the quattroporte which is much slower. Not only that but the it's faster than the S-class while having a engine with less displacement which makes taxation lower. As far as toy's go PASM, PDK and other goodies are standard for the 4S and Turbo.


    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    Emperor,

    Based on the just announced UK pricing it will be a very well priced car and I'm sure it will be an outstanding well performing car.....but it still looks awkward and ungraceful to my eye.

    When spending over $100,000 for a car, most people are looking for performance + beauty, dare I say. And the risk for Porsche is that they will find at least some of their potential customers unwilling to make the aesthetic compromise.

    I was absolutely looking at the Panamera Turbo as my next car, but unless it looks a whole lot better in person, no way Jose. I want to walk in my garage and fall in love again every day as I do with my silver C4S FL.



    --
    997 C4S FL

    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    This colour is highly appealing and should be an option on the other cars in the Porsche range. The car also has the rims seen on the test mules, check out the deployed spoiler!



    Re: Real life Panamera S pics

    http://www.teamspeed.com/forums/cayenne-panamera/20202-porsche-panamera-depth-tech-briefing-first-ride.html

     a ton of new pics there , if anyone can teach me how to post pics i can copy them all in here no prob


    --
    Gee Tee Two, dangit she is fun Chevy Tahoe, dangit are you a big pig

     
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