Crown

I have a November build slot but don't know how long the PTS will affect this. I'm not concerned if it pushes it into next year as that will mean a spring delivery which is better weather wise.

I was told that PTS would definitely be next year. Not sure if that's only for RHD car but I assume you are keeping this car in the UK so it's RHD. 

Adam2S:

Finally got my build slot confirmed today for completion week 46 (9th Nov).

I've opted for the P03 folding buckets as dealer advised that P11 LWB are still on a 10 week delay to orders, so folding buckets seem like a fair compromise, plus they are a little bit cheaper too.

Now just the long wait for November and for the factory collection!

Spec is Yellow+Yellow+Yellow :  http://www.porsche-code.com/PGTSJBG0   Like a giant piece of cheese!

Re the factory collection - can anybody confirm just how strict the German police are about driving with summer tyres after the 1st Nov. This article is worrying me a little, but there is nothing I can really do about the delivery date or the tyres fitted, so....

https://www.wbs-law.de/eng/road-traffic-law-eng/law-winter-tyres-germany-48118/

You only get in trouble with German police if something happens and if something happens doesn't necessarily mean an accident but for example if traffic gets "disturbed" because you slow it down or if you cause a stop.

I would be much more concerned with your car insurance and not police. The German law is clear on winter tires. If something happens in Germany, I doubt that your car insurance will take it lightly. I suspect they would refuse payment, so be careful here. Also, if you damage a third party, your insurance could actually pay up and demand the money from you. Careful!

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

Re the factory collection - can anybody confirm just how strict the German police are about driving with summer tyres after the 1st Nov. This article is worrying me a little, but there is nothing I can really do about the delivery date or the tyres fitted, so....

https://www.wbs-law.de/eng/road-traffic-law-eng/law-winter-tyres-germany-48118/

You only get in trouble with German police if something happens and if something happens doesn't necessarily mean an accident but for example if traffic gets "disturbed" because you slow it down or if you cause a stop.

I would be much more concerned with your car insurance and not police. The German law is clear on winter tires. If something happens in Germany, I doubt that your car insurance will take it lightly. I suspect they would refuse payment, so be careful here. Also, if you damage a third party, your insurance could actually pay up and demand the money from you. Careful!

Cheers, so is the 1st Nov a black and white implementation of the Winter law?  I thought I had read elsewhere that it was just "wintery conditions", so providing it was mild and/or dry there wouldn't be a basis of an issue.

Also, just to nit pick but winter doesn't start until the 21st December in the northern hemisphere! I accept that argument wont stand up to either the police or the insurance company.

Suppose I could pay for a transporter to collect me and it at the factory gates and drop us off at the German border?

--

Current - Aston V12 Vantage, Morning Frost White, Buckets, Manual

On Order - Cayman GT4, Racing Yellow, LWB

We usually have the first snowfall end of November and then some more starting mid of December or later.

I once returned from Paris on November 1st (I remember that day) and it started snowing. I had planned to mount the winter tires after the Paris vacation, so my surprise was pretty big. However, the snow didn't stick to the ground and I was lucky, no ice either. So yes, there can be early snow in early November but it isn't very likely.

Stupid question: Why don't you take delivery in April/May 2016? Cars are improved along the way and it is going to be nicer weather for a pickup. Unless of course you really really want that car earlier.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Adam2S:

RC:

Re the factory collection - can anybody confirm just how strict the German police are about driving with summer tyres after the 1st Nov. This article is worrying me a little, but there is nothing I can really do about the delivery date or the tyres fitted, so....

https://www.wbs-law.de/eng/road-traffic-law-eng/law-winter-tyres-germany-48118/

You only get in trouble with German police if something happens and if something happens doesn't necessarily mean an accident but for example if traffic gets "disturbed" because you slow it down or if you cause a stop.

I would be much more concerned with your car insurance and not police. The German law is clear on winter tires. If something happens in Germany, I doubt that your car insurance will take it lightly. I suspect they would refuse payment, so be careful here. Also, if you damage a third party, your insurance could actually pay up and demand the money from you. Careful!

 

Cheers, so is the 1st Nov a black and white implementation of the Winter law?  I thought I had read elsewhere that it was just "wintery conditions", so providing it was mild and/or dry there wouldn't be a basis of an issue.

Also, just to nit pick but winter doesn't start until the 21st December in the northern hemisphere! I accept that argument wont stand up to either the police or the insurance company.

Suppose I could pay for a transporter to collect me and it at the factory gates and drop us off at the German border?

You linked to a lawyer's web site in your post which gives the legal position as follows:

"The statutory provisions on the obligation to fit winter tyres In Germany were updated in 2010. There is now a so-called ‘situational winter tyre obligation’.
This means that the obligation to run a vehicle on winter tyres does not apply with reference to a particular date, but instead depends on the weather conditions.
The winter tyre obligation applies in winter conditions including ice and black ice, frost, snow and slush."

The so-called ‘situational winter tyre obligation’ means that you are only liable to prosecution if "caught" without winter tyres in the winter season if winter conditions as defined above actually prevail at the time. If it were to snow before 1 November and you were caught on summer tyres, you could not be prosecuted. Similarly, if you were to be found driving on summer tyres after 1 November on clear road conditions, you would also not be prosecuted.

Since you would presumably have the car insured by a UK company, the lack of winter tyres should not be as much of a problem as RC suggests, as UK insurers are allegedly sometimes inclined to take the attitude that fitting winter tyres is a modification to the car's spec which they have to be advised of, and for which they might at their discretion charge a higher premium! Crazy, I know. 
 

fritz

RC:

Stupid question: Why don't you take delivery in April/May 2016? Cars are improved along the way and it is going to be nicer weather for a pickup. Unless of course you really really want that car earlier.

Two points really - as you suggest though its mostly down to the fact I just don't want to wait an extra 6mths, but also I thought GT4 production finished in March - so would it even be possible to delay a factory collection to April or May?

Current - Aston V12 Vantage, Morning Frost White, Buckets, Manual

On Order - Cayman GT4, Racing Yellow, LWB

fritz:

Adam2S:

RC:

Re the factory collection - can anybody confirm just how strict the German police are about driving with summer tyres after the 1st Nov. This article is worrying me a little, but there is nothing I can really do about the delivery date or the tyres fitted, so....

https://www.wbs-law.de/eng/road-traffic-law-eng/law-winter-tyres-germany-48118/

You only get in trouble with German police if something happens and if something happens doesn't necessarily mean an accident but for example if traffic gets "disturbed" because you slow it down or if you cause a stop.

I would be much more concerned with your car insurance and not police. The German law is clear on winter tires. If something happens in Germany, I doubt that your car insurance will take it lightly. I suspect they would refuse payment, so be careful here. Also, if you damage a third party, your insurance could actually pay up and demand the money from you. Careful!

 

Cheers, so is the 1st Nov a black and white implementation of the Winter law?  I thought I had read elsewhere that it was just "wintery conditions", so providing it was mild and/or dry there wouldn't be a basis of an issue.

Also, just to nit pick but winter doesn't start until the 21st December in the northern hemisphere! I accept that argument wont stand up to either the police or the insurance company.

Suppose I could pay for a transporter to collect me and it at the factory gates and drop us off at the German border?

You linked to a lawyer's web site in your post which gives the legal position as follows:

"The statutory provisions on the obligation to fit winter tyres In Germany were updated in 2010. There is now a so-called ‘situational winter tyre obligation’.
This means that the obligation to run a vehicle on winter tyres does not apply with reference to a particular date, but instead depends on the weather conditions.
The winter tyre obligation applies in winter conditions including ice and black ice, frost, snow and slush."

The so-called ‘situational winter tyre obligation’ means that you are only liable to prosecution if "caught" without winter tyres in the winter season if winter conditions as defined above actually prevail at the time. If it were to snow before 1 November and you were caught on summer tyres, you could not be prosecuted. Similarly, if you were to be found driving on summer tyres after 1 November on clear road conditions, you would also not be prosecuted.

Since you would presumably have the car insured by a UK company, the lack of winter tyres should not be as much of a problem as RC suggests, as UK insurers are allegedly sometimes inclined to take the attitude that fitting winter tyres is a modification to the car's spec which they have to be advised of, and for which they might at their discretion charge a higher premium! Crazy, I know. 
 

Cheers Fritz, that it what I understood the sitatution to be.  Sounds workable to me given its early in the season - I just have to be sensible and not push the boundaries if Im unlucky with the weather.

Current - Aston V12 Vantage, Morning Frost White, Buckets, Manual

On Order - Cayman GT4, Racing Yellow, LWB

Adam2S:

 

Cheers Fritz, that it what I understood the sitatution to be.  Sounds workable to me given its early in the season - I just have to be sensible and not push the boundaries if Im unlucky with the weather.

If you're unlucky with the weather, the possible consequences of driving on snow-covered or icy roads on summer tyres is frankly a greater concern than being fined by the police.

fritz

fritz:

Adam2S:

 

Cheers Fritz, that it what I understood the sitatution to be.  Sounds workable to me given its early in the season - I just have to be sensible and not push the boundaries if Im unlucky with the weather.

If you're unlucky with the weather, the possible consequences of driving on snow-covered or icy roads on summer tyres is frankly a greater concern than being fined by the police.

Yeah, I had the same thoughts about driving my car home to Denver from the dealer in Salt Lake City, Utah where I purchased the car.  I am currently working on having my car directly delivered to a local dealer rather than the purchasing dealer.  There are some pretty tall mountains between SLC and Denver and the car will likely return here in November/December.  Even if I get stuck with some of the cost, I think it will be preferable to risking winter weather and track tires.

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

fritz:

Adam2S:

 

Cheers Fritz, that it what I understood the sitatution to be.  Sounds workable to me given its early in the season - I just have to be sensible and not push the boundaries if Im unlucky with the weather.

If you're unlucky with the weather, the possible consequences of driving on snow-covered or icy roads on summer tyres is frankly a greater concern than being fined by the police.

Very true - don't forget that I currently drive a V12 Vantage with 510hp/570nm and RWD, all year round in the UK come rain, snow or ice on Pirelli PZero Corsa tyres, so I am very aware of the limits of such tyres in bad weather.

I am confident I will be fine and know when and how to drive in conditions and when to stop and just wait it out.  I was just a little worried that the police may fine me just because the criteria said so...

Current - Aston V12 Vantage, Morning Frost White, Buckets, Manual

On Order - Cayman GT4, Racing Yellow, LWB

Grant:

fritz:

Adam2S:

 

Cheers Fritz, that it what I understood the sitatution to be.  Sounds workable to me given its early in the season - I just have to be sensible and not push the boundaries if Im unlucky with the weather.

If you're unlucky with the weather, the possible consequences of driving on snow-covered or icy roads on summer tyres is frankly a greater concern than being fined by the police.

Yeah, I had the same thoughts about driving my car home to Denver from the dealer in Salt Lake City, Utah where I purchased the car.  I am currently working on having my car directly delivered to a local dealer rather than the purchasing dealer.  There are some pretty tall mountains between SLC and Denver and the car will likely return here in November/December.  Even if I get stuck with some of the cost, I think it will be preferable to risking winter weather and track tires.

Grant... that is a most sensible approach.

Jax

'10 997.2 GT3   '16 981 GT4 (October 23, 2015)   '14 Audi S4 and a '15 VW Golf

ISUK:

Porsche-Jeck's photo of Lichtgrün got me wondering if metallic is perhaps the wrong way to go on the GT4 and I should choose a bold solid colour. I got a couple of spray cans of  253 Lichtgrün and 22S Signalgrün and painted a couple of speed shapes to see how they look. I love both colours and am now awaiting confirmation if the factory will allow me to amend my order.

 

 

I am glad to have contributed to your colour choice, ISUK I am sure your car will look great with this special colour

public roads: Porsche 981S white/black/red, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Finally!!!!! I took delivery today after having the car sitting in the showroom for over two months!!! 

In a few words, awesome road car! Fantastic balance, super sweet to drive on country winding roads. I suspect it will be a bit too underwhelming on the track and I will find out soon. But for the road, it's an amazing car!

For me, it is the spiritual successor of the 993 RS. Enough power, but not so much so that you can floor it in any gear and be in total control. 

Something rather odd, the 918 seats are, well, 918 seats, but they are more comfy on the GT4, they don't feel as upright than the 918, I wouldn't be surprised if they are more inclined in the GT4/ GT3RS. Which makes the driving position absolutely perfect, seats are excellent.

The autoblip sport button is fun, it's quite useful at low speed in fact as, like the RS 4.0, the gas pedal is quite deep for heel and toe but once you're gunning it, it's better without simply because it's more fun to do it yourself.

Noise is quite nice, it sits between my 997 Sport Classic and my RS 4.0. Actually funnily enough, this car reminds quite a lot of my Sport Classic, very similar engine and gearbox, more agile but without the rear weight bias which is more fun to manage.

Conclusion: Excellent car. For the money, not much beats it.

PS: A violet RS was being delivered today, nice car but I really didn't like the colour, it's quite flat, quite pretty, but on a car? Not sporty, nor classy, really didn't do it for me, I wasn't sure when I ordered mine and I am now glad I went for orange. Car will be delivered in September.

PPS: Earlier in the weekend, we took the oldies for a blast to the Reims old F1 track. 288GTO, 993RS, Delta Integrale and 968CS. Delta was not that good sadly, engine is just not great, the other three are sublime. 968 has a chassis modern cars would be ashamed of, the RS is telepathic in its handling, engine is fabulous, GTO is just mega, the engine is a masterpiece, for me a much better road car than the F40, and arguably the prettiest car ever.

Thanks, Futch!  You have an awesome stable!!

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Grant:

Thanks, Futch!  You have an awesome stable!!

Yes, indeed.  
I especially like the red 993, but then I'm biased.  

fritz

fritz:

Grant:

Thanks, Futch!  You have an awesome stable!!

Yes, indeed.  
I especially like the red 993, but then I'm biased.  

Thanks!

Red suits the 993 really well. What a car! Especially in RS guise. Any true Porsche collector should have a 993 and 968CS in his stable. Two cars that are the true essence of this company. lightweight, fun, agile, communicative.

Futch thanks for the GT4 write up. I can't wait for mine! As for the 288GTO, it was my poster car (literally, on the wall of my bedroom for years) and every time I get the chance to see one, it's still the most beautiful car. Hopefully one day I'll get to experience one as a driver!

Thanks for the write up, nice words about the car from someone in the know! Only 3 months to go before mine arrives...ugh

agree about the violet RS...at least to me the Orange is a much better choice but there is no accounting for taste.

'10 997.2 GT3   '16 981 GT4 (October 23, 2015)   '14 Audi S4 and a '15 VW Golf

Futch:

PPS: Earlier in the weekend, we took the oldies for a blast to the Reims old F1 track. 288GTO, 993RS, Delta Integrale and 968CS. Delta was not that good sadly, engine is just not great, the other three are sublime. 968 has a chassis modern cars would be ashamed of, the RS is telepathic in its handling, engine is fabulous, GTO is just mega, the engine is a masterpiece, for me a much better road car than the F40, and arguably the prettiest car ever.

I remember back in 2004 when I lived in Paris, I went to Reims and suddenly on the road there were these "facilities". I had never heard about a track here, but funny to see the picture of your cars in this place.

GT4 - Perhaps I should have tried getting one when I cancelled my RS order...

I don't think so Thomas because there are two very different cars. If the new RS captures just a fraction of the magic of the RS 4.0 then it doesn't even compare with the Cayman.
The Cayman is a fantastic sportscar for the road, definitely one of the best I've ever driven but it's no track toy, I will confirm that at Silverstone but one can tell.

Actually I don't think it should have been a GT car, the engine alone is not worthy of the GT name, it's a nice engine but anyone who has driven a GT3 will understand. I have not yet driven the DFI GT3 of the 991 generation and they might also be bland, but the Mezger is a motorsport engine, not the one in the Cayman, like I wrote, it feels very similar to the engine I have in my 997 Sport Classic with a great top end between 5500 and 7500 and very descent torque.

For me this car should have been called the Cayman R, as a successor to the previous generation, a lighter, more powerful Cayman.

Don't get me wrong, zero regret on my side, this will be my summer car in the Alps and it will be epic but don't regret not getting one over a GT3RS.

Futch, was your 993Rs,blut orange?, or maybe im wrong and it was red

oh I remember, GT2 was orange and RS was red, blame on RC because of crash on website....lol

Futch:

I don't think so Thomas because there are two very different cars. If the new RS captures just a fraction of the magic of the RS 4.0 then it doesn't even compare with the Cayman.
The Cayman is a fantastic sportscar for the road, definitely one of the best I've ever driven but it's no track toy, I will confirm that at Silverstone but one can tell.

Actually I don't think it should have been a GT car, the engine alone is not worthy of the GT name, it's a nice engine but anyone who has driven a GT3 will understand. I have not yet driven the DFI GT3 of the 991 generation and they might also be bland, but the Mezger is a motorsport engine, not the one in the Cayman, like I wrote, it feels very similar to the engine I have in my 997 Sport Classic with a great top end between 5500 and 7500 and very descent torque.

For me this car should have been called the Cayman R, as a successor to the previous generation, a lighter, more powerful Cayman.

Don't get me wrong, zero regret on my side, this will be my summer car in the Alps and it will be epic but don't regret not getting one over a GT3RS.

Interesting feedback. Nice to hear the praise for the GT4 on the road. I must admit that I would have been surprised if you had praised it as much on the track (solely given your racing experience).

I personally find the GT4 to be the ultimate track toy for having fun on track days. It is not a road legal semi-race car like the RS to set the fastest laps. This is also reflected by the GT4's price. When money is no issue, then the RS is obviously the winner, but following this logic then the RS is also overshadowed by the 918... 

The only thing which slightly annoys me with the GT4 after 2+ months of ownership is the long'ish gearing.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

bluelines:

The only thing which slightly annoys me with the GT4 after 2+ months of ownership is the long'ish gearing.

That is a very short list of complaints and one that can be addressed at some point 

I won't mind the long gearing much in Europe with the Autobahnen and Nurburgring.  

But at home, a track car only has to have Vmax of 225 kph.  So, if this car is a keeper I would consider a change to optimize the gearing for my slower track (where the GT4 will give many GT3's a challenge) and the tight mountain roads.

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

I was concerned about the gearing too but I must say that after yesterday's trip, it's not that bad, yes it's a tad long but there's descent torque too so it's ok, you'd definitely need to downshift to 1st gear for exit of mountain hairpins.

I was more troubled by the electric steering, it was my first experience driving an EPAS Porsche (except the Cayenne which is no sports car) and I can see where the criticisms are coming from.

Driving the RS 4.0 the day before certainly didn't help, but there is vagueness to the steering feel off center which feels very artificial, one you go into curves, it's better but there is a layer of feedback removed, it's obvious. Not a deal breaker at all, it's really bad when you drive the car back to back with a 997 RS mostly. On it's own, it's just fine. For those who haven't driven a 997 GT, just don't and the steering feedback is fine.

All GT cars should use the electro-hydraulic system from the 919 and 991 race cars.  

My 911's steering has quite a bit more feel than 997 GT3, so I'm pretty spoiled in that regard (and it will be missed, I'm sure).

I was also thinking that 1st gear might be needed in the mountains sometimes (never needed that before).  Interested to see how one can double-clutch with and/or without the auto-rev feature into 1st.

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Futch: For those who haven't driven a 997 GT, just don't and the steering feedback is fine.

 

Unfortunately that's not an option for me anymore At least I hope that the steering in the Spyder (which I understand is similar to the GT4) provides a tad more feedback than in the normal 981 variants Though I agree with you that "on it's own" it's o.k. even with the normal 981 variants if you go for a spin (even a spirited one) on country roads. Still, even Mrs. PJ who uses the 981S as a daily driver complains about the vague steering feedback when manoeuvring at very low speed (parking), a complaint she never had with the 987S (sans EPAS).

I am very happy with my decision to keep the 997.1 GT3 as a track only car - the feedback of the steering and the sense of the mechanical grip is just epic and I never get tired of enjoying it

Many congrats, Futch on adding another superb car to your stable I always enjoy very much reading your reviews on your fine cars because I know it's coming from someone who knows what he's talking about.

BTW I came by the old race track near Reims just a couple of weeks ago when enjoying a 4,000 km roundtrip all over France. The place felt somehow magic to me - unfortunately the "quality" of car lineup was not even close to the lineup shown in your picture

--

public roads: Porsche 981S white/black/red, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Grant: But at home, a track car only has to have Vmax of 225 kph.  So, if this car is a keeper I would consider a change to optimize the gearing for my slower track (where the GT4 will give many GT3's a challenge) and the tight mountain roads.

Grant, just for understanding: does that mean there is a general speedlimit in the US for trackday format events ?

As for the gearing: not a big technical isue if you want to do something about it later (though probably you put the warranty at risk). I did it with my GT3 (as so many other track oriented owners did) and I like it a lot - even drivers of nominally faster P-cars (997.2 GT3/RS) are biting into their steering wheels when I accelerate coming out of Adenauer Forst heading towards Metzgesfeld

--

public roads: Porsche 981S white/black/red, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Porsche-Jeck:

Grant: But at home, a track car only has to have Vmax of 225 kph.  So, if this car is a keeper I would consider a change to optimize the gearing for my slower track (where the GT4 will give many GT3's a challenge) and the tight mountain roads.

Grant, just for understanding: does that mean there is a general speedlimit in the US for trackday format events ?

No, this is just the practical speed achieved for a car like the GT4 given the length of the longest straight at my track (with a little extra headroom).  If I had a GT2 RS, I could go faster

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550