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    Jun 17, 2013 11:14:23 PM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Does Porsche actually own Volkswagen??? (June 2013)

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/17/qatar-porsche-volkswagen-idUSWEA00CIV20130617

    This means, if I'm not wrong, that the Piech and Porsche family own more than 50% of the VW common stock. This doesn't mean they can fully control VW (for various reasons) but still, they can be extremely influential. 

    Interesting outcome...if I did the math right. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Jun 17, 2013 11:44:25 PM

    bigonion
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    bigonion
    Loc: Colorado, USA
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Does Porsche actually own Volkswagen??? (June 2013)

    You are not wrong.  VW owns the Porsche industrial business (which makes the cars) but the Porsche holding company (Porsche SE) owns 50.1% of VW common stock.  As of today, Porsche SE is 100% controlled by the Porsche and Piech families.  It's a fairly unusual outcome to the VW / Porsche saga that went on from 2005-2009.  I can't believe they pulled it off, and they still have to win some court cases but they will likely win them.  The Porsche holding company is a shell - it doesn't really do much of anything.  And VW technically has control of Porsche the car company as just one of several operating divisions in the VW empire.  But the Porsche and Piece families can basically determine who sits on the board of VW / Porsche, who the CEO is, whether they like or don't like the industrial strategy, etc.   

     

    What that means to Porsche cars, I  don't know.  Seems to me there will be more models than even today sharing platforms with other VWs and Porsches and Audis and maybe even Lamborghinis.   Smiley

    Jun 18, 2013 2:15:27 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 57821, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: bigonion

    Re: Does Porsche actually own Volkswagen??? (June 2013)

    bigonion:

    You are not wrong.  VW owns the Porsche industrial business (which makes the cars) but the Porsche holding company (Porsche SE) owns 50.1% of VW common stock.  As of today, Porsche SE is 100% controlled by the Porsche and Piech families.  It's a fairly unusual outcome to the VW / Porsche saga that went on from 2005-2009.  I can't believe they pulled it off, and they still have to win some court cases but they will likely win them.  The Porsche holding company is a shell - it doesn't really do much of anything.  And VW technically has control of Porsche the car company as just one of several operating divisions in the VW empire.  But the Porsche and Piece families can basically determine who sits on the board of VW / Porsche, who the CEO is, whether they like or don't like the industrial strategy, etc.   

     

    What that means to Porsche cars, I  don't know.  Seems to me there will be more models than even today sharing platforms with other VWs and Porsches and Audis and maybe even Lamborghinis.   Smiley

    I really get a feeling that Ferdinand Piech is a real genius... Smiley

    It is good to know that the Piech and Porsche families actually didn't loose control over Porsche and furthermore seem to have the upper hand at VW too. Well done... Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Jun 18, 2013 3:44:20 AM

    WhoopsyM Online
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    Whoopsy
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Does Porsche actually own Volkswagen??? (June 2013)

    Piech was never close with the rest of the Porsche, but he is the one with the last laugh right now. The Porsches had planned and 'almost' took over his VW empire, but that plan failed and now in turn he got to take over the Porsches side instead.

    He is a fantastic genius in engineering also did well enough to have VW sitting where they are today, but I think he failed as a marketing guy. He could have divide and conquer the whole car market, top to bottom with no product overlap, as the VW empire has enough brands to cover them all, yet right now he has his own brands competing against each other within the same segments up and down market instead of competing against foreign competition. Their own brands are stealing sales from other brands within the empire, kind of like the old GM, and we all know what happened to the old GM when their own brands compete against each other, the market got stolen from under their nose by outsiders. GM has yet to recover.

    Jun 18, 2013 6:35:10 AM

    4trac Offline
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    4trac
    Loc: SK , Canada
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    Reply to: WhoopsyM

    Re: Does Porsche actually own Volkswagen??? (June 2013)

    Btw nice new avatar pic RC.... this looks like a true commitment! kiss  Just need to edit to one with black wheels.... indecision


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    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

    Jun 18, 2013 8:29:35 AM

    Spyderidol
    Rennteam Master
    Spyderidol
    Loc: Mozambique
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    Registered on: Apr 25, 2007
    Reply to: bigonion

    Re: Does Porsche actually own Volkswagen??? (June 2013)

    bigonion:

    You are not wrong.  VW owns the Porsche industrial business (which makes the cars) but the Porsche holding company (Porsche SE) owns 50.1% of VW common stock.  As of today, Porsche SE is 100% controlled by the Porsche and Piech families.  It's a fairly unusual outcome to the VW / Porsche saga that went on from 2005-2009.  I can't believe they pulled it off, and they still have to win some court cases but they will likely win them.  The Porsche holding company is a shell - it doesn't really do much of anything.  And VW technically has control of Porsche the car company as just one of several operating divisions in the VW empire.  But the Porsche and Piece families can basically determine who sits on the board of VW / Porsche, who the CEO is, whether they like or don't like the industrial strategy, etc.   

     

    What that means to Porsche cars, I  don't know.  Seems to me there will be more models than even today sharing platforms with other VWs and Porsches and Audis and maybe even Lamborghinis.   Smiley

    Small correction: Porsche SE owns 50.7% of VW common stock. http://www.porsche-se.com/pho/en/porschese/holdingstructure/

    Jun 24, 2013 1:50:56 AM

    bigonion
    Junior
    bigonion
    Loc: Colorado, USA
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    Reply to: Spyderidol

    Re: Does Porsche actually own Volkswagen??? (June 2013)

    I stand corrected. 

    Porsche SE purportedly will make moderate sized acquisitions and investments in the auto technology area.  Probably this means some or several key componentry suppliers.  Porsche receives a lot of dividends and, by virtue of their misguided attempt to take control of VW in 2008 they have lots of embedded tax losses, so finding some decent profit streams to offset these has some value.  But, for the most part, it's how Piech controls VW + Porsche with really a modest minority of the share capital.  Still find it amazing he pulled it off.

    Jun 24, 2013 9:20:37 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 57821, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: bigonion

    Re: Does Porsche actually own Volkswagen??? (June 2013)

    bigonion:

    I stand corrected. 

    Porsche SE purportedly will make moderate sized acquisitions and investments in the auto technology area.  Probably this means some or several key componentry suppliers.  Porsche receives a lot of dividends and, by virtue of their misguided attempt to take control of VW in 2008 they have lots of embedded tax losses, so finding some decent profit streams to offset these has some value.  But, for the most part, it's how Piech controls VW + Porsche with really a modest minority of the share capital.  Still find it amazing he pulled it off.

    I guess this is how Piech wanted to handle the whole VW/Porsche stuff to begin with but Mr. Wiedeking and his financial guy had a more direct approach in mind, which may have succeeded at some point if the economic crisis wouldn't have come up. Still...Piech's approach seems to be more subtle, less controversial and it doesn't offend the current employees and shareholders of the VW Group too much.

    Piech is really a genius...not sure if he is an evil or a good one though. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

     
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