Crown

Hi Guys - I'm about ready to change all 4 tyres on my 997 GTS.

As my warranty has recently expired and can't be renewed, due to my Sharkwerks Exhaust By-pass, this is no longer a straight forward process!

I definitely want to stay with Michelin but am unsure whether to change my current N-rated PS2's for PS4's or Super Sports?  Not having previously tried either, I'd appreciate some guidance from anyone who has... many thanks.

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"Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turn out."

I can happily recommend the Michelin Pilot Super Sports, which I have found to be superior tyres to the old PS2's on road and track! 

I haven't tried the PS4 yet...

I have been using the Super Sport on my 997 for the last 4 or 5 years. Best tire I had on this car. Used extensly on track and as a DD tire in good and bad weather  

they are much much better then the PS2  

The tire is not N rated but remember that it was seen on all 997.2 mules , it was developed with the car. 

I would gladly try the S4 but last time I checked it did not exist in my demension Rims. Maybe it does for the larger GTS rims 

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 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

Just buy the latest version of MPSS. They're widely used among pretty much all marques. The N ratings aren't important.

Another vote for Super Sports, on to our 2nd set now. You will love them on your 997, just in time for spring.

2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

Well, the PS4s are supposed to replace the supersports. With tyres, the newer the better.

2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1

I can second that.

The super sport is great, but the PS4S is the better and the newer tire.

daily (no fun): BMW 430d
for fun: Porsche Boxster GTS

acky:

I can second that.

The super sport is great, but the PS4S is the better and the newer tire.

When I last checked they do not make them in 18’ sizes that fit the 997’s

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

Being the GTS are on 19s he should be fine

jamesdamanuk1:

Being the GTS are on 19s he should be fine

Made a mistake. Meant 19. Were only available in 20. But maybe this has changed  . It was last summer  , I wanted some 

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 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

Very many thanks guys for your responses...

The overall consensus appears, in the main, to be a split decision.

As I never track my Porsches and the Michelin PS4S tyre is the newest version - I think I'll probably go for those.

The below video seems to fully support this verdict...

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Pilot-Sport-4-S-VS-Michelin-Pilot-Super-Sport.htm

Your time taken to reply is much appreciated...

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"Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turn out."

Sounds like good tire.

noone1:

Just buy the latest version of MPSS. They're widely used among pretty much all marques. The N ratings aren't important.

Says the one who clearly knows a lot about driving cars...oops...riding trains and flying in planes?! 😉

Yeah, I know...marketing stuff only... 🤪

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

I've ordered a set of PS4S from ATS Euromaster - due to be fitted when the weather gets warmer.

Just wondered if I'm likely to experience any problems with the TPMS sensors?

Anyone been in a similar situation? - Many thanks guys..

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"Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turn out."

There shouldn't be any issues if they are going on the same rims with the same TPMS sensors as the current tires. 

John H:

I've ordered a set of PS4S from ATS Euromaster - due to be fitted when the weather gets warmer.

Just wondered if I'm likely to experience any problems with the TPMS sensors?

Anyone been in a similar situation? - Many thanks guys..

 

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"Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turn out."

 

 

I don't think there will be issues with the TPMS sensors. 

Speaking of non-N rated tires: I had N-rated PZero Sottozero Winter on my 991.2 GTS Cab but they put the wrong tires on the wrong rims. Still, the tires felt "firm" in curves, the rear tires had apparently a stiffer sidewall, which was an advantage. Now I am driving on non-N rated tires (same, Pirelli Sottozero Winter) and in that very same curve, at basically the same speed (I know that road), the car felt very "soft" and I almost started sliding with the rear because I felt how the rear tires started slipping. Temperature was around 10°C, similar to the temperature of when I tried the N-rated tires and road was completely dry. I would lie if I didn't say it was a bit scary (it was quite at the limit), even if very controllable but it definitely proves the point that N-rated tires make sense and have a different setup. I could basically feel how the rear tires didn't build up enough "support" because of the (I think) softer side wall.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Different rim width? That could impact effective sidewall stiffness.

KMM:

Different rim width? That could impact effective sidewall stiffness.

 

The rim width on the first rims was different true but not to the extent that it would make such a big impact.

I had this issue before with Nokian winter tires on my Cayenne Turbo. Everyone recommended them (after the previous Pirellis Scorpion Winter proved to be crap), so I switched to Nokian and loved them (great traction, great braking performance in the wet and on snow) but once I drove them a bit sportier through some narrow curves and turns on dry roads, I was shocked how "soft" they felt. No "side support" at the limit...at all, very dangerous. Never again. Were great on snow though.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

So what are you suggesting Christian?  Are you advocating that I should stick with N-rated tyres?

That would rule out both PS4S and MPSS...

"Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turn out."

John H:

So what are you suggesting Christian?  Are you advocating that I should stick with N-rated tyres?

That would rule out both PS4S and MPSS...

 

Yes but if you're really not happy with your current tires, get the PS4S, pretty good tire. The PS4S is a bit problematic for the R8 for example (talked to Michelin) because the side walls are a bit too soft. Michelin recommended the approved Cup 2 instead (Audi version) but this tire sucks and is too expensive for the advantages it offers over the PZero. Not worth it. This is not the usual Cup 2 used for Porsche cars...

Or check with your Porsche dealer if there are some new tires with N-rating approved for your car, I don't have the list at hand right now.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

The PS4S is now available with N-Rating in the typical 20" 991.2 Carrera size.
Porsche delivers cars with this tires from the factory, but still 90% or more are with Pirelli.
I saw several 991.2 with PS4S in Porsche Showrooms.

daily (no fun): BMW 430d
for fun: Porsche Boxster GTS

Good to know as the N1 PZero's on the GTS still suck when its wet, better than the N0 but still mediocre at best in the wet... really disappointed with them. Since I'm due for another set soon and will check on the PS4S then if they have them N-Rated for my sizes.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

Good to know as the N1 PZero's on the GTS still suck when its wet, better than the N0 but still mediocre at best in the wet... really disappointed with them. Since I'm due for another set soon and will check on the PS4S then if they have them N-Rated for my sizes.

This is really weird, the PZero on my R8 is just short from amazing on wet pavement but I know what you mean (had the PZero N0 on my former GTS and while I liked it, it wasn't really the most amazing tire in the wet). Probably depends what car manufacturers want from a tire and where they put their emphasis. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

The Michelin are also optimized for dry grip as most of the high performance tires.
I don't know about their wet performance.

Still difficult to get and often not listed

Michelin Pilot Sport 4S N0 EL 245/35/20 (95Y) (Z)Y
Michelin Pilot Sport 4S N0 EL 305/30 ZR20 (103Y)

That should be the right sizes.

daily (no fun): BMW 430d
for fun: Porsche Boxster GTS

RC:

Carlos from Spain:

Good to know as the N1 PZero's on the GTS still suck when its wet, better than the N0 but still mediocre at best in the wet... really disappointed with them. Since I'm due for another set soon and will check on the PS4S then if they have them N-Rated for my sizes.

This is really weird, the PZero on my R8 is just short from amazing on wet pavement but I know what you mean (had the PZero N0 on my former GTS and while I liked it, it wasn't really the most amazing tire in the wet). Probably depends what car manufacturers want from a tire and where they put their emphasis. 

If I remember correctly from pictures you posted, the latest PZero's on the R8 have a different thread pattern than the N1 for the GTS, they they may be quite different...

I just know that I've been driving spiritedly in the wet all my life (we get quite a bit of rain here in winters since we don't get snow) and put a lot, a lot, of miles in 911's over the years and don't remember a tire as bad as this on the wet. I would have to go back 2 decades 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

RC:

Carlos from Spain:

Good to know as the N1 PZero's on the GTS still suck when its wet, better than the N0 but still mediocre at best in the wet... really disappointed with them. Since I'm due for another set soon and will check on the PS4S then if they have them N-Rated for my sizes.

This is really weird, the PZero on my R8 is just short from amazing on wet pavement but I know what you mean (had the PZero N0 on my former GTS and while I liked it, it wasn't really the most amazing tire in the wet). Probably depends what car manufacturers want from a tire and where they put their emphasis. 

If I remember correctly from pictures you posted, the latest PZero's on the R8 have a different thread pattern than the N1 for the GTS, they they may be quite different...

The R8 PZero is completely different from the Porsche PZero, it is a PZ4 with a different thread pattern and different compound mix. It is Audi rated (yes, they have that too).

I just know that I've been driving spiritedly in the wet all my life (we get quite a bit of rain here in winters since we don't get snow) and put a lot, a lot, of miles in 911's over the years and don't remember a tire as bad as this on the wet. I would have to go back 2 decades 

Funny: The Michelin Cup 2 for the R8 is great in the wet (for a semi-slick) but on dry pavement, it decreases in performance fast because Audi put the emphasis on daily drivability rather than track records. The problem is: The PZero is already very good in the dry and wet, so the Cup 2 should have been more extreme. Probably the reason why they barely sell it, it just is too close to the PZero I'm afraid...for a hefty premium. Lamborghini does a better job, they offer the Trofeo R for the Huracan. Unfortunately it is impossible to get a tire certification for my R8 from Pirelli, they claim that there are issues with the front tires (Trofeo R) in the R8 but they didn't want or couldn't elaborate.  I have a small suspicion, chassis alignments and all but no proof.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

acky:

The Michelin are also optimized for dry grip as most of the high performance tires.
I don't know about their wet performance.

Still difficult to get and often not listed

Michelin Pilot Sport 4S N0 EL 245/35/20 (95Y) (Z)Y
Michelin Pilot Sport 4S N0 EL 305/30 ZR20 (103Y)

That should be the right sizes.

Thanks acky

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Well, an update on the tires: I had the PS4S fitted yesterday on the GTS and got to throw away the Pirelli PZeros, just in the quick drive back from the dealer it happened to be raining and 11ºC and the difference was immediate... what a huge difference in the wet, and they weren't even run in yet.

Today I did 200 miles in rain and got to try them some more, my 911 is no longer handicapped in the rain finally! after the ordeal with the N0 and N1 Pirelli P-Zeros.

I seriously don't understand how those tires got the N rating from Porsche, its not like its a little difference from similar model to model, in the dry they were fine but in the wet they were the worst tire I ever had on a 911, and I have put over 400,000km on 911 and countless sets of tires through 996-997-991, I'm not a sunny Sunday boulevard driver.

Best description how the P-Zeros feel on the wet in the GTS is like old out of date tires that have hardened and may look fine and feel fine but have no grip. If it were one set I could think that maybe there was something wrong with that batch, but after the N0 I put on the newer N1 and same thing, a bit better but still very poor. The only explanation I can think of is that they were tight on time when launching the 991 and needed a tire for it and just signed off what they had, and until now only the Pirellis were available in N rating as a matter of fact. But now Michelin have come up with a proper tire with the PS4 Sport, highly recommend it. 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Very informative Carlos. Thanks for sharing!
I wonder if this is a general Pirelli P Zero issue in the wet, or just the N-rated version for the 991 

The Porsches I've driven lately with P Zero (Panamera and Cayenne) have performed excellent in the wet. But these P Zeros might have completely different characteristics?

lukestern:

Very informative Carlos. Thanks for sharing!
I wonder if this is a general Pirelli P Zero issue in the wet, or just the N-rated version for the 991 

The Porsches I've driven lately with P Zero (Panamera and Cayenne) have performed excellent in the wet. But these P Zeros might have completely different characteristics?

Hi Luke, my guess is that it has to be only the N-rated Pirelli Pzero for the 991 specifically.

The PZeros for other cars like the R8 for example has a completely different thread pattern than the N1 for the 991 and probably different compound mixture too (actually the N1 in the 991 has the same thread pattern than the previous N0, it didn't change like for other cars).

Probably for cars that differ even more from the 991 like the Panamera or Cayenne the Pzeros may be even more different which would explain your findings, and I know many people happy with the Pzeros in other cars too.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS