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    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Whoops, give GM a break, we have always viewed Canadian money like monopoly money.SmileySmileySmiley


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    some pimps enjoying their rides on the autobahn

    nice scenery and Camaro sound

     

     

    seen it before but nice run and good quality

     

    Z06 185 in the rain Smiley

     


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    racerx:

    Whoops, give GM a break, we have always viewed Canadian money like monopoly money.SmileySmileySmiley

     

    Even more so now that we that we've switched to plastic money, it's like kiddie toy.


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Maybe I should repeat myself: There is no extra/special or whatever duty/tax in Germany for US cars.

    Yes, I agree, it doesn't make sense to sell US cars in Germany for a higher price, so maybe the US companies and those who make the pricing decisions for Germany are just a bunch of MORONS. 

    At 90k EUR, the ZR1 would really have chances over here, at the current 136k EUR, definitely not.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    RC:

    Maybe I should repeat myself: There is no extra/special or whatever duty/tax in Germany for US cars.

     

    Perhaps you should inform the ZOLL. Because they say there is a 10%  customs duty on cars

    see here - http://www1.zoll.de/english_version/faq/b0_customs_procedures/index.html#customs_procedures20

    not to mention the 19% Import Turnover Tax (VAT) at the border.

     

    $22,000.00 ITT (VAT) + $13,000.00 Import DUTY

     

    $35,000.00 of German TAX to enter the country before anyone in Germany has made a profit or it has made it thru the german supply chain.

    see official from the ZOLL.DE- "import VAT is levied IN ADDITION to the customs duty"

    duty1.jpg

     

    and from the EU

    duty.jpg

     

    same as great Britain 10% customs duty PLUS the VAT and some fees and home country profit making. That doesn't explain all of the price hike, part of that is the German car dealer making his cut and the German units of GM all taking their cuts.

    Seems to me it would make sense for a German to buy one in the US and take it back himself, still paying the VAT and customs duty but bypassing GM-Germany's profit.  (jl)


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Boy I indeed opened a can of worms.  The best part was how a ZR1/Z06/Viper needs technical improvements to handle the autobahn.  I think the poster hung himself on that one alone.  I do remember though back in the 70's and 80's how European Supercars needed drastic saftey and emission improvements to make it into the US market...that was a 100% fact.  The US bumper on the Countach was SOO ugly.

    I am a driving school instructor for the BMW CCA (Car club of America) and many of the guys who have M3's and run R compound tires, had lots of chasis problems due to the chassis inability to handle the added stress of sticky race tires.  This doesn't sound so Autobahn ready to me?!?!  Just to note, a Corvette does not have chassis issues as it uses a real box frame (not unibody).  If you research, unlike 99% of unibody performance cars, you can not buy chassis reinforcement parts for a Corvette frame.  They are unavailabe because they are simply not needed even when the car is converted for race purposes.  You can not say this for most unibody cars that are converted to race cars or used a track toys.  Most need significant reinforcement.

     I got this from Turner Motorsports (probably most famous BMW tuner in the US. 

    "The E46 rear driveline and suspension are very similar to that of the E36. An unfortunate side effect of this is that the E46 also shares some of the same problems as the E36. One of these problems is the rear mounting points for the subframe, which can rip out from their spots in the sheet metal. This happens because the rear differential transmits the torsional load from the engine through the subframe, then into the chassis. This constant loading and unloading weakens the sheet metal and causes it to fatigue and separate from the chassis. BMW tried to fix this problem in the E46 by placing a cross member on the front two mounting points of the subframe. This cross member keeps the front mounting points from having problems by placing the bushing and the stud in double-sheer, thus reducing the twisting action on the sheet metal. The unfortunate side effect of this is that the load from the front of the subframe now gets transmitted to the left rear of the subframe. This is where we have seen many failures of the chassis on low mileage street cars and race cars."

    Back to the import/export issue.  As an example, I work for a large American communication company.  We sell communication equipment (internet routers and such) along with other services all over the world for fortune 500 global clients.  A Cisco router for example is more expensive in most countries that in the US, also there are strict rules as to where those routers are sourced (in country).  Keep in mind, I cannot sell a US based router to a German customer.  The licenses are different, as well as the maintenance support. They must be procured and priced in the respective country with records of appropriate taxes paid and stamped on the router.  It gets better.  If I somehow sneak a router into a foreign country, I can not register that device for maintenance/support of ANY kind as it has a US code.  Also, if a tech from that respective country goes out to service a router that does not have country specific goverment stamps and approvals, not only can the tech walk away, they are suppose to report the infraction to local officials along with possible immediate confiscation of the device.

    I guess one thing we can all take away from this thread, protective taxes apparently are not enough to save the economies of their respective countries.


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    It is likely that GM Europe for Corvette dealers in Germany very carefully analyzed market price positioning and likely customer profiles to determine market opportunity and then set retail prices accordingly. 

    Using their data they probably figured out that a "lower" retail price point would not make them any more profit from new Corvette sales in Germany. Maybe the number of potential swimmers for the Corvette swimming pool there just isnt big enough.Combine that with likely wishful thinking in GM Europes marketing department that a higher price would also raise Corvettes brand position.  Corvettes are sold as a independent brand at Cadillac dealerships in Germany., yes? In the US Corvettes are sold at Chevy dealerships, so there you go.

    There are specialist outside consultants who the auto companies hire to help them determine both market opportunity and retail prices for cars in various markets, even the length and extent of their OEM warranties and new vehicle servicing plans. Its a very data driven busines and the people who actually do the number crunching and final results analysis are not car enthusiasts and some have no common sense either.

     

     


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Guys, it is about supply and demand. Every product on the market dictates this rule. Hence a ZR1 is considerably more in the EU, simply because less of them are available here creating the allure and therefore demand such that a higher asking price is justified. Car companies all over adjust their prices to get the best possible PROFIT CURVE volume versus price. So as long as they still sell enough cars at the highest possible price, they will do so to maximize profits.

    This is along with the lines of what Jim above is talking about.


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Someone, incl. you, was claiming that there is a specific import duty on US cars, which there isn't.

    The 10% is valid for cars imported from all countries outside the EU.

    The US charges 2.5% import duty on cars as far as I know and there is some additional cost involved, which is difficult to define with a certain percentage but yes, it is lower than 10%.

    Still...again: There is no extra/special duty tax for US cars. Period.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    Let's keep things straight. 95jersey first mentioned "tax duty", you - RC- then asked what he was talking about, I then explained it, and NO ONE said "special" as in only against the USA. You guys have a lingo problemo (at best).Smiley

     

     

     

    95jersey:
     

    Unfortunately the EU (like Japan) puts a HEAVY tax duty on American cars, which is not fair, because the US does not put such duties on Foreign cars. 

     

     

     

     

    racerx:
    RC:
     

    I was just asking myself: What the heck are you talking about? Smiley Smiley

     

    I think he is talking about taxes, Duties, Fees all just another word for TARRIFFS


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    RC:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Now take the base price of 137k EUR without VAT and multiply it with the current 1.30 USD/EUR exchange rate and you get...178k USD. Not much difference anymore with the US price.

     

    Clear this up for me ---- What would you have to pay to own a ZR-1 today in Germany? Are you saying 137K eur plus still another 19% on top of that?


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    racerx:

    Let's keep things straight. 95jersey first mentioned "tax duty", you - RC- then asked what he was talking about, I then explained it, and NO ONE said "special" as in only against the USA. You guys have a lingo problemo (at best).Smiley

     

     

     

    95jersey:
     

    Unfortunately the EU (like Japan) puts a HEAVY tax duty on American cars, which is not fair, because the US does not put such duties on Foreign cars. 

     

     

     

     

    racerx:
    RC:
     

    I was just asking myself: What the heck are you talking about? Smiley Smiley

     

    I think he is talking about taxes, Duties, Fees all just another word for TARRIFFS

    "Unfortunately the EU (like Japan) puts a HEAVY tax duty on American cars, which is not fair, because the US does not put such duties on Foreign cars." 

    Not sure who has the lingo problems here, at best. Smiley

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    racerx:
    RC:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Now take the base price of 137k EUR without VAT and multiply it with the current 1.30 USD/EUR exchange rate and you get...178k USD. Not much difference anymore with the US price.

     

    Clear this up for me ---- What would you have to pay to own a ZR-1 today in Germany? Are you saying 137K eur plus still another 19% on top of that?

    Nope. 136k EUR incl. 19% VAT.

    I was just comparing the price tag of a Panamera Turbo S in Germany and the US, not much difference there.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    RC:
    racerx:

    Let's keep things straight. 95jersey first mentioned "tax duty", you - RC- then asked what he was talking about, I then explained it, and NO ONE said "special" as in only against the USA. You guys have a lingo problemo (at best).Smiley

     

     

     

    95jersey:
     

    Unfortunately the EU (like Japan) puts a HEAVY tax duty on American cars, which is not fair, because the US does not put such duties on Foreign cars. 

     

     

     

     

    racerx:
    RC:
     

    I was just asking myself: What the heck are you talking about? Smiley Smiley

     

    I think he is talking about taxes, Duties, Fees all just another word for TARRIFFS

    "Unfortunately the EU (like Japan) puts a HEAVY tax duty on American cars, which is not fair, because the US does not put such duties on Foreign cars." 

    Not sure who has the lingo problems here, at best. Smiley

    Smiley

     

    1)  30% tax (19 + (10+)) at the docks is HEAVY by anyone's standards

    2) He was only talking about american cars, corvettes specifically, replacing the word "American" with "ALL" would not have changed the meaning.

     

    For Porsche selling into North Carolina 2.5% import duty and NO sales tax. 3% highway use tax at time of registration.


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    What about Chicago then?  9.5% sales tax plus 2.5% import duty plus whatever tax they have on top, like gas guzzler tax or whatever? 

    The VAT is a tax on almost all goods in Germany, so you can't really count this in when speaking about heavy tax duty.

    The 10% are a different story but the US has an import duty on cars too and there are other taxes.

    Potato...tomato...well... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 2013 Dodge Viper

    yes -- potato.....10lbs bag potahto'sSmiley


     
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