Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    wantone:

    He has just resigned...

    If so, unfair for the new guy who will have for answer for the previous management and be automatically tarnished.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    So watch as a puppet is installed to "clean up the company" and instill  "ethical values" to staff - de ja vu?

     


    --

    991 Carrera Black\Black, XC90 Black\Black, 120 Cab Black\Coral Red - 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Not surprised. We have been saying Winterkorn is done. 

    He was paid handsomely as CEO of a company, but getting fired or letting go at any given moment in time for something that happened but which he may or may not be responsible for is what comes with the big salary. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Some info on why these tests were conducted in the US:

    When the International Council on Clean Transportation began to look into discrepancies in the emissions of several Volkswagen diesel vehicles in early 2014, it was with the sincerest of intentions. Noting that the U.S. had stricter and more rigorously enforced emissions laws that Volkswagen’s TDI-equipped cars routinely passed without problems, the ICCT figured performing some tests on U.S. soil would provide them with a good control model. Enlisting the help of West Virginia University’s Center for Alternative Fuels, Engines, and Emissions (CAFEE) to assist with the real-world testing, it seemed the data would soon reveal the root of the inconsistencies. But when the results gathered via real-world testing were compared with the compliant numbers generated in the lab by the California Air Resources Board (CARB), it was clear something wasn’t kosher in dieselburg.

    http://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news/how-volkswagen-got-busted-for-skirting-epa-diesel-emissions-standards/ar-AAeC2jU

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    This may be just the tip of the iceberg......I would not be surprised if this is a common practice among all car manufacturers...in other words modifying the ECU in order to meet emission regulations while undergoing formal testing and then reverting to a "normal" run mode.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    I bet many engine development folks all over the world are very nervous at the moment


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Does anyone actually pay attention to emission figures when they buy a car? 

    Some look for best gas mileage, some goes for high performance, I have yet to meet or even notice someone who buys a car because it emit less. 

    Well this time VW cheated the government, but in principle, is this episode any different than us talking about cars' performance when tested by magazines and writers on track vs the real cars we buy at dealerships? Different alignments than shipping cars, different tires, lighter options, etc? 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Whoopsy:

    Does anyone actually pay attention to emission figures when they buy a car? 

    Some look for best gas mileage, some goes for high performance, I have yet to meet or even notice someone who buys a car because it emit less. 

    Well this time VW cheated the government, but in principle, is this episode any different than us talking about cars' performance when tested by magazines and writers on track vs the real cars we buy at dealerships? Different alignments than shipping cars, different tires, lighter options, etc? 

     

    Everyone who buys an electric car? Smiley


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    In some countries emissions is tied to taxes so people pay a lot of attention there...


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC:

    "What is a little bit outrageous are the many comments in certain political forums in Germany: Apparently many people see some sort of US plot to ruin VW and the German industry, which is of course ridiculous. Also, many Germans seem to be surprised that some 2.0 l Diesel engines cannot fulfill US EPA regulations but some monster 7 l Diesel or 6 l petrol engines do. They do not understand the whole thing, which leads to many speculations and even angry comments like "the US with it's many V8 engines on the road shouldn't really accuse VW of anything..." but many people don't really understand that most Diesel engines are directly more hazardous to the health than even V8 petrol engines."
    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    I think this cheating scandal happen because the Audi and VW engines could not meet the California Air Resources Board requirements. For several years, the diesel engine from Audi and VW were not available in California and then all of a sudden, they met California's stricter requirements.

    The California emissions standard has always been stricter than the EPA's requirement. And before Whoopsy makes his comment, I remember how bad smog was in Los Angeles growing up where your eyes would constantly water and burn from the smog. We use to have tons of smog alert days, now that is history.


    --
    Porsche owner since 1975.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Whoopsy:

    Does anyone actually pay attention to emission figures when they buy a car? 

    There is significant overlap, in the US at least, between the VW "clean diesel" demographic and the traditional Birkenstock demographic, so yes, people were buying these cars because they believed they were good for the environment, and they were marketed as such.

    Edit: And, of course, there is this:

    The U.S. government also has reason to feel duped: Volkswagen's 'clean diesel' TDI engines earned a $1,300 federal tax credit for people who purchased a diesel Jetta sedan or wagon back in 2009, the first year affected by the recall.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Winterkorn is just a patsy. Piech had to have okd this. He is such a gearhead and known for pushing the envelope that it defies credulity that he would not have known. 

     

     

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    The start of articles like this do not bode well for the industry:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/24/business/international/volkswagen-test-rigging-follows-a-long-auto-industry-pattern.html

    I guess we'll have to wait and see how widespread this will become, but I think the days of trusting automakers may be over, so they should make sure they have their ducks in a row.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    JimFlat6:

    Winterkorn is just a patsy. Piech had to have okd this. He is such a gearhead and known for pushing the envelope that it defies credulity that he would not have known.

    One or both of them most likely knew about it and most likely signed off on it. (I still think the recent power struggle's timing was not a coincidence.) We'll find out as the criminal investigation unfolds; I don't think they'll have any trouble getting lower level engineers to roll over on their bosses.

    Winterkorn has done the right thing for the good of the company, today, though, innocent or guilty.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    SciFrog:

    In some countries emissions is tied to taxes so people pay a lot of attention there...

    We are here but CO2 emissions not NOX


    --

    Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Soon will come the canned Hitler videos lampooning VWs plan for world diesel domination. And you know, they will be right. 

    AMG motors are likely suspects  also. angry


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    JimFlat6:

    Soon will come the canned Hitler videos lampooning VWs plan for world diesel domination. And you know, they will be right. 

    AMG motors are likely suspects  also. angry

    Aaaaaand, here it is:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKef1JFpiCA

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Seriously, Jim, you are equating this with Hitler? It's utterly offensive to trivialize Hitler's crimes against humanity by even mentioning these things together


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Yes. Hitler videos will mock this. World domination is always good for few laughs, and btw, Hitler started VW so there is  more than just a tenous linkage. Like  it or not, its now open season on German auto companies. 

     

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Wow


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    JoeRockhead:
    JimFlat6:

    Soon will come the canned Hitler videos lampooning VWs plan for world diesel domination. And you know, they will be right. 

    AMG motors are likely suspects  also. angry

    Aaaaaand, here it is:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKef1JFpiCA

     

    Joe, that video is really funnySmiley


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    JoeRockhead:
     

    Everyone who buys an electric car? Smiley

     

    That's more about cutting gas bills, monthly out of pocket expenses operating a electric car is vastly cheaper than pumping gas every few hundred miles. 

    But then again saving gas is indirectly tied to emissions. But no one talks about emissions, they are use saving gas as the main talking point. 


    --

     

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    The plot thickens. The evening news in Sweden just reported that the Dept. of Transport in Sweden has tested other cars than VW and got similar result as EPA. BMW and Volvo among others...


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    bluelines:

    The plot thickens. The evening news in Sweden just reported that the Dept. of Transport in Sweden has tested other cars than VW and got similar result as EPA. BMW and Volvo among others...

    I would be very surprised if VW were the only manufacturer cheating the rules!


    --

    Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    i could not imagine that VW develop an engine that does NOT meet the required standards and then becomes modified to meet the test regulations without the top execs knowing and passing it.

    and if they did not know they do not belong at the top anyway.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    dreamcar:
    bluelines:

    The plot thickens. The evening news in Sweden just reported that the Dept. of Transport in Sweden has tested other cars than VW and got similar result as EPA. BMW and Volvo among others...

    I would be very surprised if VW were the only manufacturer cheating the rules!

    If everybody bends the rules it means the rules are wrong. Change the rules instead Smiley

    Probably all manufacturers are using the same software from the same source.


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    What it could mean, is that diesel just is not a viable fuel for the type of engines automakers want to put in cars.

    I doubt very much they are using the same software. If they were, VW would have instantly fingered the producer of the software as to blame.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Very interesting but troubling times. I sometimes have the notion that this current trend of turbocharged motors is the tail wagging the dog. Turbocharging was quite popular in the 80s then disappeared as motors had to become more efficient. Now a decade or two later, almost all vehicles are being turbocharged regardless of class. Cheap power, but cleaner and more fuel efficient? Maybe for the test cycle, but in the real world?

    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    apias:

    What it could mean, is that diesel just is not a viable fuel for the type of engines automakers want to put in cars.

    I doubt very much they are using the same software. If they were, VW would have instantly fingered the producer of the software as to blame.

    These VW cars use Bosch engine management software. Off the shelf from Bosch, parameterized by VW to detect emission tests. No use to fingerpoint Bosch since the software simply does what VW has configured it to do...


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    AJ:
    Very interesting but troubling times. I sometimes have the notion that this current trend of turbocharged motors is the tail wagging the dog. Turbocharging was quite popular in the 80s then disappeared as motors had to become more efficient. Now a decade or two later, almost all vehicles are being turbocharged regardless of class. Cheap power, but cleaner and more fuel efficient? Maybe for the test cycle, but in the real world?

    I have some  friends who whose prev Audis had gas V6s but opted for more EPA  " fuel efficient " 2L gasoline turbos when time came to upgrade but who got the same or worse real DD mileage , unless cars were driven with so light a throttle that they endangered themselves or others in the flow of traffic. 

    Part of the emissions " official drive cycle " game all the manufacturers have figured out and played with to " move the metal " and of which the end consumer was/is inconsequential 

    Owners of these cars whose performwnce will be emasculated by installing new ECU programming will demand VW  buy backs globally ...no different than everyone here with a theoretical 991.2 3l turbo if Porsche had to do the same a year after you owned it due to emissions hnky panky and the result was 100 fewer horsepower ...you would own basically a lump of coal in terms of resale market !


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
    619739 2849
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 12/30/20 9:03 AM
    rhino
     
     
     
     
     
    385050 1279
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 6/8/21 7:15 PM
    JR-550
    89555 1087
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 5/12/21 3:30 PM
    WhoopsyM
    47179 344
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    36310 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
    34204 380
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 6/19/21 2:48 AM
    watt
    18848 391
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    5177 29
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 7/27/20 2:13 AM
    DJM48
    576039 5257
    Porsche Cayman GT4 5/4/21 4:46 PM
    Topspeed
    435233 3586
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 4/25/21 4:04 PM
    Topspeed
    370090 3916
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 5/27/21 6:14 PM
    Topspeed
    369806 3495
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
    331736 3252
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
    311610 2646
    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
    250539 4279
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/28/21 8:05 PM
    Topspeed
    234608 1542
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    162714 1379
    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
    138939 792
    Porsche 992 GT3 6/20/21 2:43 AM
    Targa Tim
    136850 2622
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    111722 1225
    McLaren F1 2/25/21 11:33 AM
    RCA
    77849 207
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 5/19/21 5:19 PM
    Leawood911
    76251 1167
    AMG AMG GT R 11/19/20 11:47 PM
    Topspeed
    66187 819
    Lambo Aventador and SV 4/20/21 3:21 PM
    CGX car nut
    65318 683
    Porsche 991 Speedster 9/3/20 4:29 PM
    Topspeed
    61855 878
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    45938 596
    Others Bugatti Chiron 6/9/21 6:51 AM
    Jean
    37768 479
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    34716 615
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 5/30/21 9:51 PM
    waiting for PDK
    34003 522
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 3/21/21 5:01 PM
    Topspeed
    29377 385
    272 items found, displaying 1 to 30.