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    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Milanno:

    @Futch Thanx for clearing my doubts about price. However, I am now even more amazed by Ferrari, because their F70 costs more in comparison with 918, and again you decided to go after their model! Btw. Heist made great point about black color, since you stated that you would like to drive F70 pretty often.

     

    You should not be surprised - its the old supply demand equation. Even at this price Ferrari can sell many more than the 499 production run currently rumoured. If you want a 918 or a P! - you can have one  - neither is remotely sold out at present.


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    crayphile:
    Milanno:

    @Futch Thanx for clearing my doubts about price. However, I am now even more amazed by Ferrari, because their F70 costs more in comparison with 918, and again you decided to go after their model! Btw. Heist made great point about black color, since you stated that you would like to drive F70 pretty often.

     

    You should not be surprised - its the old supply demand equation. Even at this price Ferrari can sell many more than the 499 production run currently rumoured. If you want a 918 or a P! - you can have one  - neither is remotely sold out at present.

    Correct. Although I do not know if all F150 production is accounted for, if any of these three cars will sell out, it will no doubt be the Ferrari. 

    And remember 918 cars vs approx. 500 cars, that is a huge difference! So yes, the Ferrari is more expensive but also a lot more exclusive and in that price range, it does matter.

    My opinion is that Porsche might well sell 918 cars, but over several years, after the initial 400 or so orders taken until now, they will build on order, exactly like the Carrera GT, Wiedeking announced 1500 cars, and eventually had to stop at 1270 cars because, another problem is that by the time the last cars are built, the first second hand cars are on the market and have already depreciated.

    I love Porsche but they have repeated the same mistake as the Carrera GT. They should have announced 600 cars and then, maybe increase production if the demand was there. It will be embarrassing for them, to once again, stop production at say, 700 cars. 

    Point taken on the black colour but if the car is metallic black and with a  good stone chips film (they really make spectacular ones these days, really invisible) it is fine. What is really hard to maintain is flat black, like my Carrera GT. The car looks nice when cleaned professionally and then, that's it, dirty and marked there after. It's a lot deeper than metallic black but not adapted to intense driving. Generally, metallic paint are pretty strong.

     

     

     


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    They also stop building the CGT because they could not import it in the US also for some legal/technical reason that evades me right now... Had to do with airbag maybe...


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Should we expect something along these lines? (Source: Teamspeed.com)


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Generally, black hides the lines of a car. Not seeing the F150 ( I think of a Ford truck when using this designationSmiley) I wonder if that will be an issue.

    Regarding Porsche and production numbers you are spot on. In the past, even their regular models though produced in high numbers sold well because they were competitively priced. However, lately pricing on the these models have reached a point where production numbers do matter. Porsche makes a terrific sports car but they must consider their placement in the market segment. To price the car as though it is a limited production super sport car even though it is not is troublesome for the buyer.Smiley

    Finally, I will be shocked if the F150 is not sold out shortly after the Geneva car show if not before. Porsche should be concerned with more cancellations. Their only hope is the F150 is sold out thereby forestalling 918 buyers jumping to Ferrari.


    --

     


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    pride355:
    Futch:

    Just back from the presentation....

    SmileySmileySmileySmileySmiley

    Smiley

    Many many congratulations Futch !  I think black is a great choice for a car that's going to be so rare, most of them will probably end up being red so you would be in the select group that was bold enough to make a statement by going a different route. I'm curious about your though process though, you have been so involved with the whole development with the 918, is the Ferrari that much better that you are willing to let that go in order to get this car? or do you expect to be equaly involved in the development process as Porsche had allowed customers to be with the 918? Also on that note aren't you going to lose a bit of money by backing out of the 918 so far along its development? 

    Sorry for all the questions but this is very exciting news, you're a hero Francois. 

    Smiley


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Congrats on the excellent choice Futch Smiley Smiley


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    No comment. Believe it or not, but it is more extreme. Some details are shocking and then you think, oh yes it works.

     


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    congrats Futch ! hope you made the better choice.

    while i have tremendous respect for the Engineering of the 918, i thinks it's just that, an Engineering tour de force. more than an actual Drivers car, that the ferrari might turn out to be.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Enmanuel:
    pride355:
    Futch:

    Just back from the presentation....

    SmileySmileySmileySmileySmiley

    Smiley

    Many many congratulations Futch !  I think black is a great choice for a car that's going to be so rare, most of them will probably end up being red so you would be in the select group that was bold enough to make a statement by going a different route. I'm curious about your though process though, you have been so involved with the whole development with the 918, is the Ferrari that much better that you are willing to let that go in order to get this car? or do you expect to be equaly involved in the development process as Porsche had allowed customers to be with the 918? Also on that note aren't you going to lose a bit of money by backing out of the 918 so far along its development? 

    Sorry for all the questions but this is very exciting news, you're a hero Francois. 

    Smiley

    I will drive this car a lot so even though it will never be discreet, the idea is that Black is a that little bit more subtle than red. I see it with my Carrera GT, if people don't pay attention, it kind of blends in traffic and that's nice. Plus after 5 or 10 years, the car can always go back to Zanasi and get repainted red or purple or green.

    Re 918 vs 150, you were never involved in the development of the 918, not should you by anyway, but what porsche did is invite costumers and potential costumers from the beginning of the development to witness the progress of the car (and to attract more orders), it's an interesting approach as you get to go to Weissach, Leipzig, speak to the engineers etc. Ferrari's approach is exactly the same (visit to Maranello, presentation by each department from birth to finish) but with the car finished and a few weeks from public presentation, most probably because it wanted secrecy and buyers were lining up already, Ferrari has excelled in supercars, this is its 5th one and all previous four have been succcesses so it knows it doesn't need to invite potential costumers or take journalists around in mules. Porsche knows that and is more pragmatic and communicates as much as it can on the car. The risk is people getting bored of it because we have seen 918 dev cars everywhere now, the final car lines were sanctioned a long time ago and the first production car is still almost a year away, so it can become frustrating. On the other hand, Ferrari is orchestrating the launch of its car pretty well in terms of excitment imo.

    And finally no, no money lost on the 918 as it was a fully refundable deposit until signature of the order once the options were frozen and that's not gonna happen now. The only money I've lost if the potential income I could have made on the cash, would I have invested it somewhere else, and yes, that is truly annoying but that's life, at least the deposit is 100% refundable.

     

     

     


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Hey Futch, sorry to bug you, did you by any chance hear anything about a second version of the car that's suposedly in the process a year after this one.. I'll understand if you don't want to comment


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    It is clear looking at the F40, F50 and Enzo price appreciation that Ferraris supercars are sound investments. 


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Some more speculation... Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    mojeIme:

    Hey Futch, sorry to bug you, did you by any chance hear anything about a second version of the car that's suposedly in the process a year after this one.. I'll understand if you don't want to comment

    I read that on another forum indeed and for me, it is complete BS. Ferrari would shoot themselves in the foot of they did that. How do you tell the first 200 clients, that the next 300 can upgrade to a better car if they want to? You will find out soon enought the small list of options available and no mention at all about a second version. There will maybe be an FXX version but that is a different concept.

     


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Futch:

    I read that on another forum indeed and for me, it is complete BS. Ferrari would shoot themselves in the foot of they did that. How do you tell the first 200 clients, that the next 300 can upgrade to a better car if they want to? You will find out soon enough the small list of options available and no mention at all about a second version. There will maybe be an FXX version but that is a different concept.

    That rumor started because some random guy stated that there will be second version. He had thoughts about XX version but didnt mentioned in post. That was enough reason for people to get silly about "second mysterious version". 

    --

     

    All my automotive & motorcycle renders in full resolution: www.milannoartworks.deviantart.com
    My renders are free for using & sharing, as long as my credits are untouched.

    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    It was started by tool fan from Fchat, he seems to be a respected member there, and he did have some other inside info which has been confirmed later, although I guess a paying custemer would probably know better..


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    mojeIme:

    It was started by tool fan from Fchat, he seems to be a respected member there, and he did have some other inside info which has been confirmed later, although I guess a paying custemer would probably know better..

    Hey, we all have a brother or a cousin that works at the factory right?Smiley Always take what you read on the internet caustiously, for what it's worth, you have no reason to believe me either, I could be a 12 years old fantasizing behind his computer. But people who know me on this forum know that I am a real owner/passionate/enthousiast and I don't BS.

    All I can tell you are facts. I don't know this tool (funny) from Fchat but yes, I think I read the news on that forum. Again, for me, complete bull.

     


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Second version = convertible?


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Futch:
    Enmanuel:
    pride355:
    Futch:

    Just back from the presentation....

    SmileySmileySmileySmileySmiley

    Smiley

    Many many congratulations Futch !  I think black is a great choice for a car that's going to be so rare, most of them will probably end up being red so you would be in the select group that was bold enough to make a statement by going a different route. I'm curious about your though process though, you have been so involved with the whole development with the 918, is the Ferrari that much better that you are willing to let that go in order to get this car? or do you expect to be equaly involved in the development process as Porsche had allowed customers to be with the 918? Also on that note aren't you going to lose a bit of money by backing out of the 918 so far along its development? 

    Sorry for all the questions but this is very exciting news, you're a hero Francois. 

    Smiley

    I will drive this car a lot so even though it will never be discreet, the idea is that Black is a that little bit more subtle than red. I see it with my Carrera GT, if people don't pay attention, it kind of blends in traffic and that's nice. Plus after 5 or 10 years, the car can always go back to Zanasi and get repainted red or purple or green.

    Re 918 vs 150, you were never involved in the development of the 918, not should you by anyway, but what porsche did is invite costumers and potential costumers from the beginning of the development to witness the progress of the car (and to attract more orders), it's an interesting approach as you get to go to Weissach, Leipzig, speak to the engineers etc. Ferrari's approach is exactly the same (visit to Maranello, presentation by each department from birth to finish) but with the car finished and a few weeks from public presentation, most probably because it wanted secrecy and buyers were lining up already, Ferrari has excelled in supercars, this is its 5th one and all previous four have been succcesses so it knows it doesn't need to invite potential costumers or take journalists around in mules. Porsche knows that and is more pragmatic and communicates as much as it can on the car. The risk is people getting bored of it because we have seen 918 dev cars everywhere now, the final car lines were sanctioned a long time ago and the first production car is still almost a year away, so it can become frustrating. On the other hand, Ferrari is orchestrating the launch of its car pretty well in terms of excitment imo.

    And finally no, no money lost on the 918 as it was a fully refundable deposit until signature of the order once the options were frozen and that's not gonna happen now. The only money I've lost if the potential income I could have made on the cash, would I have invested it somewhere else, and yes, that is truly annoying but that's life, at least the deposit is 100% refundable.

    Thanks for explaining that in such detail. Smiley


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    With respect to the rear spoiler, the details of which Futch won't go into, I have  suspicion that spoiler is in fact a two duct system. The rear wing is a solid and integral piece of the body work however, when more downforce is require, a flap drops down and exposes the outline of wing cutout (think of this as a trap door or a reverse DRS system in F1), simultaneously, another trap door somewhere along the car's roof or elsewhere will channel the air coming off the car into the trap and over the wing.

     


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Heist I think you are very close. That sounds logical to me!


    --

     

    All my automotive & motorcycle renders in full resolution: www.milannoartworks.deviantart.com
    My renders are free for using & sharing, as long as my credits are untouched.

    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Guys, take a look on drawings from artist Leo Costa, also known as Lcarbon_Sketch from Teamspeed. If you decide to share this somewhere else, please dont remove logos & signatures from drawings. Leo made great job, especially for front end, which I think is very close to one we will see on actual car. Enjoy ;)

     
              

    --

     

    All my automotive & motorcycle renders in full resolution: www.milannoartworks.deviantart.com
    My renders are free for using & sharing, as long as my credits are untouched.

    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Is this car going to be at Geneva? 


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Yes, it will be unveiled in Geneva and in same time in Ferrari Museum in Maranello.


    --

     

    All my automotive & motorcycle renders in full resolution: www.milannoartworks.deviantart.com
    My renders are free for using & sharing, as long as my credits are untouched.

    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Please look at my quickly work... could this be possible?

    Or it is placed in a lower section of the car with a similar function?hypercar.jpg


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    heard retail will be 1.6 Mio ? and also Hublot will produce a watch for it - 50 pcs only high complication kiss


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    BjoernB:

    heard retail will be 1.6 Mio ? and also Hublot will produce a watch for it - 50 pcs only high complication kiss

    Very OT but, Hublot has really been pushing to be a part of every mayor industry. Their PR department seems to be putting the watchmakers on overtime. They have a "Special Edition" for everything these days. 


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    Enmanuel:
    BjoernB:

    heard retail will be 1.6 Mio ? and also Hublot will produce a watch for it - 50 pcs only high complication kiss

    Very OT but, Hublot has really been pushing to be a part of every mayor industry. Their PR department seems to be putting the watchmakers on overtime. They have a "Special Edition" for everything these days. 

    I have seen their limited Ferrari piece and like it very much. However, at 25.000 usd and 45mm, it is too much for me. I have heard they make a contract for 5 year. I hope to see something smaller for size and more reasonable price for me, ie 15.000 usd.

    BTW, the gold one was 10.000 usd more expensive.


    --

    ONUR

    THE BEST CAR EVER smiley

    11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    I ment for the F70 - this watch will be way above the 25k.....6 digits.....


    Re: Ferrari F70 mule spied! (So much less camouflage)

    I think this may be the real thing. Some will be disappointed with the 458 style headlights but I think it will work well for this design. My prediction is people will become very upset with the design initially, but when fully revealed the car will be fantastic - looks, sound, and performance wise.

    From Teamspeed:


     
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