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    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    M3ike:
    JoeRockhead:

    Regarding Cup 2 tires; has anyone noticed that they can be slippery on the street in the dry? I've noticed that my car will slide out a little bit on aggressive turns at lower speeds, like during a hard left turn at a traffic list for example? At higher speeds with less aggressive wheel input they are great.

     

    They can, especially second gear turns sometimes the back end steps out unexpectedly. What I've noticed is the rise of pressure during spirited road driving, mine usually go up to 2.3 front and 2.6 at the rear, when driven very hard I've also seen 2.4 and 2.7 respectively, then they get greasy. This is when starting with the factory recommended cold pressure.

    When it's raining and water is beginning to stand I only drive 80km/h on the highway. I once drove 9 hours in pouring rain to the Redbull Ring on Tropheo Rs on my 997 GT3 RS Mk I, an experience I will never forget.

    Yes, it's the 2nd gear turns where I have noticed this. Temps are at recommended pressures, but it has happened with both cold and warm tires. There are just over 4mm of tread remaining on this set. I have a new set, but if it is not going to make a difference, I won't put them on yet. I will also avoid driving it in the rain when possible.

     


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    RC:
     

    1. They need temperature.

    2. They need temperature. Smiley

    3. If there is a little bit of dust/whatever, the tires pick it up and the traction suffers.

    I used semi-slicks on the road on two cars, drove them occasionally on friends' cars and I hate them for road driving. Not only in the wet (hydroplaning is a very very serious issue, many underestimate this because the Trofeo R for example is not bad in curves at slower speeds in the wet but when you do faster speeds (over 90/100 kph) on the Autobahn, good luck.

    We often do some mountain road driving and the road Corsas I have on my car have proven to be much better than many of the semi-slicks the other cars are driving. The roads are often covered with some dust/dirt or even some mist in cold days, semi-slicks are really not your friend under these conditions.

    I have debated put PSS or PS4s on the car to see if it helps, but if that's just the normal behaviour of this type of tire, I won't bother and just manage it.


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    schmoell:
     

    I had the same problem, but that is mostly gone after the RS has been set up. Rear camber is -2.8; front is -3.19. Obvious downside is that driving very fast on the Autobahn needs way more attention

    which part did you add to reach these cambers? stock is not possible.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    JoeRockhead:
    RC:
     

    1. They need temperature.

    2. They need temperature. Smiley

    3. If there is a little bit of dust/whatever, the tires pick it up and the traction suffers.

    I used semi-slicks on the road on two cars, drove them occasionally on friends' cars and I hate them for road driving. Not only in the wet (hydroplaning is a very very serious issue, many underestimate this because the Trofeo R for example is not bad in curves at slower speeds in the wet but when you do faster speeds (over 90/100 kph) on the Autobahn, good luck.

    We often do some mountain road driving and the road Corsas I have on my car have proven to be much better than many of the semi-slicks the other cars are driving. The roads are often covered with some dust/dirt or even some mist in cold days, semi-slicks are really not your friend under these conditions.

    I have debated put PSS or PS4s on the car to see if it helps, but if that's just the normal behaviour of this type of tire, I won't bother and just manage it.

    Not a fan of the PSS or PS4 for the Performante, a guy I know switched from Corsas to the PSS or PS4 (I can't remember which one exactly) and he wasn't happy at all, the razor-sharp precision was gone. He went with the Trofeo R afterwards and it was even worse, he lives in Allgäu and the roads are often covered with dust/dirt and other "surprises" from cows and horses and the Trofeo R picked up all kind of dirt, making it a very bad tire for a weekend fun car (no track usage). Not sure he went back to the Corsas though, haven't heard from him/seen him since last year. 

    I think the tires need to fit the car's chassis and Lamborghini usually develops their cars with Pirelli as a partner. The Trofeo R is excellent but I do not think this is a tire suitable for outside the track. The Corsa is a good compromise, it may not last that much on the track but traction is very good and for public roads, incl. rain, this is an excellent tire (though I do not feel comfortable driving over 120 kph in rain with it).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    the-missile:
    schmoell:
     

    I had the same problem, but that is mostly gone after the RS has been set up. Rear camber is -2.8; front is -3.19. Obvious downside is that driving very fast on the Autobahn needs way more attention

    which part did you add to reach these cambers? stock is not possible.

    I wrote what's written on the protocol. Don't think that they added anything. Maybe the protocol is wrong 

    Bildschirmfoto 2020-07-28 um 18.31.18.png

    This is how one of the CUP2R tires looked after 1.5 days last week. The others looked better, but were done also

    Bildschirmfoto 2020-07-28 um 18.32.40.png

     


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    Looks like it's still not enough camber.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    Whoopsy:

    Looks like it's still not enough camber.

     

    One could think so, but this is mostly due to that particular track. The other tires looked a lot better, but were done also. Dealing with tires is a black art ... at least to me.


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    schmoell:
     

    I wrote what's written on the protocol. Don't think that they added anything. Maybe the protocol is wrong 

    Bildschirmfoto 2020-07-28 um 18.31.18.png

    Where is the trick here...Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    schmoell:
    Whoopsy:

    Looks like it's still not enough camber.

     

    One could think so, but this is mostly due to that particular track. The other tires looked a lot better, but were done also. Dealing with tires is a black art ... at least to me.

    It could be the driving style as well...but yes, tires and track driving, pure art. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    Grant:
    schmoell:

    In km it's about 300 per day, in hours I don't know

    Thanks - my rear tires are not even lasting as long as yours (always wear through outer shoulder, even though I have more than 2 degrees negative camber Smiley)


    Have you checked your alignment? 


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    What track was it?


    --

    2019 911 GT3 RS,1964 Type 1


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    That was Rjieka (mostly left curves). Salzburgring has the same "problem" (mostly right curves)


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    So the logical next question is, how aggressive is your turn ins?

    Do you take one big 'swipe' at turn ins or do you 'gradually' feeding in the lock? Gradual is a relative term of course as it's still plenty quick. "smoother' could be another description. Or say Senna style being the aggressive or Hamilton style as the smoother one.

    in Germany my teammate and I share almost identical car setups, but he is of the aggressive turn-in kind and I am the gradual kind, his tire wear is much worse than mine, and needs a bit more camber than I do, but he is a faster driver overall. When I drive his setup it doesn't quite work as it understeers on me, I can't load up the outside front like he does. The reverse isn't that bad, he just wears out the fronts faster. In endurance races we always use my car unless I crashed it before.

    Aggressive turn ins loads up the outside a bit more on the initial change of direction before it evens out mid corner.

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    Ferdie:
    Grant:
    schmoell:

    In km it's about 300 per day, in hours I don't know

    Thanks - my rear tires are not even lasting as long as yours (always wear through outer shoulder, even though I have more than 2 degrees negative camber Smiley)


    Have you checked your alignment? 

    I am pretty sure that this is one of the first things Rick checked. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    Whoopsy:

    So the logical next question is, how aggressive is your turn ins?

    Do you take one big 'swipe' at turn ins or do you 'gradually' feeding in the lock? Gradual is a relative term of course as it's still plenty quick. "smoother' could be another description. Or say Senna style being the aggressive or Hamilton style as the smoother one.

    in Germany my teammate and I share almost identical car setups, but he is of the aggressive turn-in kind and I am the gradual kind, his tire wear is much worse than mine, and needs a bit more camber than I do, but he is a faster driver overall. When I drive his setup it doesn't quite work as it understeers on me, I can't load up the outside front like he does. The reverse isn't that bad, he just wears out the fronts faster. In endurance races we always use my car unless I crashed it before.

    Aggressive turn ins loads up the outside a bit more on the initial change of direction before it evens out mid corner.

     

     

    Smiley I remember when I had a professional evaluation of my driving style many years ago and the instructor said I am "all over the place" and at first, I didn't have a clue what he means. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    schmoell:

    That was Rjieka (mostly left curves). Salzburgring has the same "problem" (mostly right curves)

    Does it happen with all tire brands/compounds or just specific ones? 

    At least, you could drive Salzburgring after Rijeka. That makes the wear evenly matched on both sides. Smiley


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    Whoopsy:

    So the logical next question is, how aggressive is your turn ins?

    [.]

    in Germany my teammate and I share almost identical car setups, [...]


    Is that the guy with the Swedish accent?

    Apart from turn-in, it could also be due to the way the front tires are loaded during cornering... weight (dynamic wheel load) on the front axle and rather slow entry or putting a lot of “emphasis” on the front with a higher entry speed?


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    Ferdie:
    schmoell:

    That was Rjieka (mostly left curves). Salzburgring has the same "problem" (mostly right curves)

    Does it happen with all tire brands/compounds or just specific ones? 

    At least, you could drive Salzburgring after Rijeka. That makes the wear evenly matched on both sides. Smiley

    Thanks for the hint; didn't think about that one Smiley The CUP2R is a lot softer than the CUP2 and wears quicker. Michelin knows about this and has some special guidelines, like never drive below standard pressure. The picture of the tire above is after 1.5 days and I changed left to right after 1 day. From my experience 1.5 days, maybe 2 is what you can get out of them if you takes care.  It will happen to CUP2 also, but slower I'd say. I managed to get more than 3 days out of the CUP2 on different tracks (not the ones mentioned here). But the R is a joy to drive and worth the extra € - at least for me.

    Tire wear is still a black art to me. Many factors play a role like driving stile (as Nick correctly pointed out) , tarmac roughness, pressure, temperature, setup, pickup and also if the track has high speed banked corners (like Salzburgring). Here is an image from my Turbo on 4S after half a day on a track in Italy with very rough tarmac and me turning in aggressively like an idiot

    Bildschirmfoto 2020-07-30 um 19.45.05.png.

     

     


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    Ferdie:
    Whoopsy:

    So the logical next question is, how aggressive is your turn ins?

    [.]

    in Germany my teammate and I share almost identical car setups, [...]


    Is that the guy with the Swedish accent?

    Apart from turn-in, it could also be due to the way the front tires are loaded during cornering... weight (dynamic wheel load) on the front axle and rather slow entry or putting a lot of “emphasis” on the front with a higher entry speed?

     

    I wish, he is the smooth one. 


    --

     

     


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    short follow up on the P Zero Corsas on my 720s. Now after 6500km i can say this is not the type to have on an 720s. After 5000km they are getting harder and harder and more slippery. Even an 991.1 GTS with newer P Zeros has more grip in corners. You can also feel it when you touch the surface. Ive ordered Michelin CUP 2 Connect tyres and will report back.


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    hunterone:

    Ive ordered Michelin CUP 2 Connect tyres and will report back.

    I like the idea of these - I hope you are pleased with them.  I am guessing that the next GT3 will have this technology built into the car.


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    hunterone:

    short follow up on the P Zero Corsas on my 720s. Now after 6500km i can say this is not the type to have on an 720s. After 5000km they are getting harder and harder and more slippery. Even an 991.1 GTS with newer P Zeros has more grip in corners. You can also feel it when you touch the surface. Ive ordered Michelin CUP 2 Connect tyres and will report back.

    I hope you know what you're doing. Smiley These tires need temperature and clean surfaces. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    I drove 2 Sets of CUP2 on my 12C and was very happy with them but will report back how the new Connect tyre on the 720s behaves. I get em tomorrow so ....


    Re: MPSC2 R VS Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport RS VS Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R

    hunterone:

    I drove 2 Sets of CUP2 on my 12C and was very happy with them but will report back how the new Connect tyre on the 720s behaves. I get em tomorrow so ....

    I am just worried that the extra punch (torque) of the 720S could be an issue, traction and all. You want to drive, not to slide, right? Smiley Smiley

    I do not know the Corsa on the 720S too well (drove it once I think) but the Corsa on my Performante is an excellent road tire, much better than anything I drove from Pirelli over the past couple of years. I know that the Corsa can get tricky once you do a longer track day but on public roads, the temperature (even during hot summer days) shouldn't go above 70°C and between 50 and 70°C, the Corsa is excellent.

    Again, I am talking about street driving here, not track driving.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


     
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