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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Is this basically the turbo facelift?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Women and cars—TEMPTATIONS LIKE NO OTHER😎


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Panamera facelift

    The official reveal will take place on August 26.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    A nip here, a tuck there, just a facelift. Don't expect Angelina Jolie suddenly turned into Keira Knightley.


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Earlier press release video says 80 more hp up to 630.  Current Turbo has 550.  Also press release video says other suspension mods.  Am I wrong?  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Wonderbar:

    Earlier press release video says 80 more hp up to 630.  Current Turbo has 550.  Also press release video says other suspension mods.  Am I wrong?  

     

    It's a corporate 4.0L V8 TT. it will just be a Lamborghini Urus usage tune in the simplest terms.

    Don't expect miracles on the suspension side either, will be a retuned version of the PASM.

    Don't even think they did anything to the PCM either, as it is still the current version.

    Gen 1 was already running 275 fronts 315 rears. not sure how much big the chassis can accommodate, not much, if at all. 

    Biggest gain would have come from changing the currently stickiest stock tire, PZero PZ4 to Cup2s. 

    The new Cup2s would be a new formula, built on the basis of the 918's Cup2s. That's the version that had to endure heavy cars. N1 and N2 versions are for lighter 911s. Think they might even retain the ECO rating.


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Thanks. What does “corporate” mean? And I owned a 2018 TwinTurbo for almost 3 years, I don’t think I ever knew the front and rear tires were different.wink


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Whoopsy:
    Wonderbar:

    Earlier press release video says 80 more hp up to 630.  Current Turbo has 550.  Also press release video says other suspension mods.  Am I wrong?  

     

    It's a corporate 4.0L V8 TT. it will just be a Lamborghini Urus usage tune in the simplest terms.

    Don't expect miracles on the suspension side either, will be a retuned version of the PASM.

    Don't even think they did anything to the PCM either, as it is still the current version.

    Gen 1 was already running 275 fronts 315 rears. not sure how much big the chassis can accommodate, not much, if at all. 

    Biggest gain would have come from changing the currently stickiest stock tire, PZero PZ4 to Cup2s. 

    The new Cup2s would be a new formula, built on the basis of the 918's Cup2s. That's the version that had to endure heavy cars. N1 and N2 versions are for lighter 911s. Think they might even retain the ECO rating.

    So in short, Corona will even make a PAG facelift even more funny than before Smiley and a price increase in case you did not see that coming Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    An 80hp bump alone is more than any “facelift” I can remember.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Wonderbar:

    An 80hp bump alone is more than any “facelift” I can remember.  


    Could it be that we slowly reach some kind of limit and that the cars are approaching an optimum technically and in terms of the chassis, so that only a considerable increase in performance together with a little cosmetics here and there should make the step to the facelift palatable? Smiley


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    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Wonderbar:

    Thanks. What does “corporate” mean? And I owned a 2018 TwinTurbo for almost 3 years, I don’t think I ever knew the front and rear tires were different.wink

     

    The engine is shared by Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini, and Bentley. 

    Porsche used it first in a 550hp version, Bentley also have the 550hp version. 

    Audi S8 has a slighter higher tune in all their cars if I remember correctly and Lamborghini used the top tune in the Urus. 


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Whoopsy:
    Wonderbar:

    Thanks. What does “corporate” mean? And I owned a 2018 TwinTurbo for almost 3 years, I don’t think I ever knew the front and rear tires were different.wink

     

    The engine is shared by Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini, and Bentley. 

    Porsche used it first in a 550hp version, Bentley also have the 550hp version. 

    Audi S8 has a slighter higher tune in all their cars if I remember correctly and Lamborghini used the top tune in the Urus. 

    This engine is based on the 5l twin-turbo V10 from the 2008 Audi RS6 and has over the years become the VW Group twin-turbo V8 of choice. It was developed by Audi and adopted by Porsche for the Cayenne and Panamera from model year 2018 and 2017 respectively. The V8 engines used by Porsche before this were their own.

    The 4l V8 engine is now used in the S6, RS6, S7, RS7, S8, Continental GT, Flying Spur, Cayenne (from 2018 model), Panamera (from model year 2017), etc. All in different tunes.

    Our S6 has got one of the lowest tunes with 450hp and 550Nm.
     


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    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I think that some car companies already put a brake on power upgrades in facelifts, like for example Mercedes but also BMW. Porsche is just playing catching up I guess. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Good information, everybody, thanks! 630 hp—whew!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    @bluelines

    you‘re not totally correct regarding Audi S6, in the latest model C8 despite of US & China it‘s not the V8-petrol biturbo anymore but an V6-turbo mild hybrid (MHEV)! 😉

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Lord_Driftalot:

    @bluelines

    you‘re not totally correct regarding Audi S6, in the latest model C8 despite of US & China it‘s not the V8-petrol biturbo anymore but an V6-turbo mild hybrid (MHEV)! 😉

     

    Yes, but neither the diesel nor the petrol does not count smiley The biggest mistake Audi ever done when changing from C7 to C8.


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    New C class AMG models get 4-cyl. and 6-cyl. engines, even the E63 could get a 6-cyl. engine. In my opinion total suicide for AMG, I wouldn't buy these cars and I know a lot of AMG drivers who feel exactly the same.

    The AMG GT could be a different story, if the design and sportiness/performance is right but the other ones? RIP. Same goes to the G class, the GLS, the GLC and so on.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:

    New C class AMG models get 4-cyl. and 6-cyl. engines, even the E63 could get a 6-cyl. engine. In my opinion total suicide for AMG, I wouldn't buy these cars and I know a lot of AMG drivers who feel exactly the same.

    The AMG GT could be a different story, if the design and sportiness/performance is right but the other ones? RIP. Same goes to the G class, the GLS, the GLC and so on.

    Talk to your bureaucrats in Brussels about the draconian carbon regulations.  That's why everyone is downsizing engine displacement and making large investments in EVs.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    CGX car nut:
    RC:

    New C class AMG models get 4-cyl. and 6-cyl. engines, even the E63 could get a 6-cyl. engine. In my opinion total suicide for AMG, I wouldn't buy these cars and I know a lot of AMG drivers who feel exactly the same.

    The AMG GT could be a different story, if the design and sportiness/performance is right but the other ones? RIP. Same goes to the G class, the GLS, the GLC and so on.

    Talk to your bureaucrats in Brussels about the draconian carbon regulations.  That's why everyone is downsizing engine displacement and making large investments in EVs.  

    The biggest mistake car manufacturers in Germany make regarding EVs is that they make them look ugly or too futuristic. Instead, they should just use the cars and models they have now and offer a competitive EV version of each. Just my two cents...


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Current market for EVs want something different looking from traditional automobiles.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    CGX car nut:

    Current market for EVs want something different looking from traditional automobiles.  

    And there are so many engineering differences that it would actually be more expensive to somehow just electrify existing car bodies. Just like you could not just put gas engines into horse carriages. Or putting a flat screen into an old tube TV case. 
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    CGX car nut:

    Current market for EVs want something different looking from traditional automobiles.  

     

    I am not sure that's the case. I think the reverse is actually true instead.

    Consumers wants a normal looking car that doesn't scream LOOK AT MY EV!! 

    Outside of Teslas, and now the Taycan, every other EV on the market looks like a normal car. BMW i3 is the prime example of looking like a weird car and they are pretty much a failure on the market.

    Whatever that's coming down the pipe from Audi are all normal looking also. That pretty much holds true for all manufacturers' up coming products.

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Whoopsy:

     

    I am not sure that's the case. I think the reverse is actually true instead.

    Consumers wants a normal looking car that doesn't scream LOOK AT MY EV!! 

    It depends, take the example of the gorgeous Prius Smiley that sold pretty well and has a unique horrible design which was unnecessary.

     


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    People who buy electric cars, in their majority  view those as appliances, similar to an efficient refrigerator or an eco-friendly washing machine . They don't care about arresting styling and other things a traditional car fan would require. Hence the Toyotas and similar EVs that are popular.

    BMW have tried to introduce some style to their electric cars but I don't think those sold very well. For example the supercar styled i8 was very out of character with its 3C engine and the i3 was a nice concept but prohibitively priced with its carbon base.

    The Taycan seems a very fast car given its weight handicap and worthy of the marque  but for this kind of money many car lovers would prefer to own a "proper" performance car rather than an EV with all its deficits and inconveniences.

    I believe the ICE will carry on for a long time and with the economic hardship most countries face including the car industry as a result of the consequences of the on-going pandemic, legislations and directives against conventional fuels will be delayed further.


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    in CH the Taycan trends 84% behind target......after initial hype....


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    To buy the Taycan, first you have to be among the smallest group of early buyers for expensive EVs, an innovator. Someone can easily decide to buy a Nissan LEAF but not a €150.000 worth of new, complicated and potentially not fully reliable technology.

    Second you must have a large disposable income to spend for this type of electric vehicle and third you must be able to afford more than one car. I don't think the Taycan will fully gratify a car lover after the initial enthusiasm wears off and the technical complications start to take their toll.

    Therefore, I am not surprised that Porsche have difficulty to find enough customers, especially now that money is generally tight.

    Assuming someone is a friend of  Porsche, this person for the money of an entry level Taycan can buy a very satisfying Carrera or spend less on a Panamera4. Both cars are perfectly usable with the minimum of fuss. If someone's  urban or  professional  environment requires the use of an EV this person can buy a Japanese or Korean runabout for a fraction of the cost of the Taycan and keep a proper ICE performance car for weekends and vacations.


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Test drove the Taycan Turbo S this morning. Whilst very fast, left me unimpressed. No emotion at all. The handling was superb, very agile And razor sharp feeling. But the powertrain felt soulless.


    --

    1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2016 Macan S Diesel - 2018 Mini JCW


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    starting to see lease deals here in the NY area on Taycan 4s....but still way too expensive. I have owned a BMW i3, i8 and a number of Teslas now. EVs are fun with the Model 3 performance being prob the best so far. It's like a little go kart. But I am obviously still a fan of big V8s, NA 911s and will be as long as I can buy one. But I will always have an electric car or 2 from now on. 


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    Tesla Model S P100d. 2018 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    You have a very nice assortment of expensive cars incl. EVs as far as I can see Smiley

    But if you could only own one high end car would that be an EV?


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I would pick the 720s - I love the boosty engine and it revs as fast as the GT3. It just doesn't scream as much as the GT3. 

    I assume I could have a simple daily - the Model 3 I don't drive much since my wife took it off my hands without asking. I daily the 850. I got the 850 because of the V8 and the fact I can always get another E in the future. V8s maybe not. 


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    Tesla Model S P100d. 2018 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳


     
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