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    997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Since nobody post it yet here is data from Sport Auto test(not a Supertest!). Sorry if repost...

    997 Turbo(manual/PCCB/Normal tires)

    0-100km/h: 3.8s
    0-160km/h: 8.4s
    0-200km/h:12.7s
    80-120km/h: 4.0s/6.0s(5/6)
    80-180km/h: 9.6s/13.5s(5/6)
    Hockenheim: 1.13,7min
    Slalom 18m: 68.4km/h
    Weight: 1580kg

    Good or bad? You judge it! But, 997 Carrera S with X51,-20mm/LSD and PCCBs did Hockenheim is THE SAME TIME(!!!) 1.13,7min... And its Slalom 18m speed is 69.6km/h!

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Slow compared to most tests, it seems conditions may not have been ideal.

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Since nobody post it yet here is data from Sport Auto test(not a Supertest!). Sorry if repost...

    997 Turbo(manual/PCCB/Normal tires)

    0-100km/h: 3.8s
    0-160km/h: 8.4s
    0-200km/h:12.7s
    80-120km/h: 4.0s/6.0s(5/6)
    80-180km/h: 9.6s/13.5s(5/6)
    Hockenheim: 1.13,7min
    Slalom 18m: 68.4km/h
    Weight: 1580kg

    Good or bad? You judge it! But, 997 Carrera S with X51,-20mm/LSD and PCCBs did Hockenheim is THE SAME TIME(!!!) 1.13,7min... And its Slalom 18m speed is 69.6km/h!



    thanks Kreso, will read it tonite!

    guess that the x51 comp is a clear disappointment, it has 100hp less and less electronics on board.

    and let's not forget that the Z06 does Hockenheim in 1.11,5 that's more than two seconds less than the 997tt - that's massive! and btw the z06 has no PCCB and has runflat tires!!!
    Porsche sure lost their undisputed crown what track times is concerned...

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Quote:
    trip said:
    Slow compared to most tests, it seems conditions may not have been ideal.



    I dont think the conditions were bad, cause the acceleration performance of this tested car is good and very much in line with other tests and manufacturers claims (unlike the quattroruote test for example).
    so there is no excuse IMO, sorry!

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    I'm not saying they were bad, but perhaps less than ideal i.e. higher temperatures, different surface, different driver, etc... Whatever the reason, this test had some of the slower numbers I've seen (except for the ridiculously slow Quattroroute/road an track times). For exmaple, Car and Driver acheived 0-60 in 3.4, 0-100 in 7.8. Most mags have 0-100kph times in 3.6 or less as well as 0-160 in 8 flat or less. I am not surprised that the 997s has an identical slalom time, its lighter and has basically the same suspension set up. As for track times, unless they are all done on the same day with the same driver they must be taken with a grain of salt. Having said that I do beleive the Z06 is faster around most tracks. I doubt this weighs on the minds of 997tt owners. On a real road I doubt there are a handful of cars that could keep pace with a properly driven turbo.

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    On a real road I doubt there are a handful of cars that could keep pace with a properly driven turbo.



    I certainly agree on this one! in real life the 997tt is an almost unbeatable car.

    but it takes some of its 'untouchable' aura if an x51 does the same times and a cheap z06 massively outruns it.

    we should not forget that the turbo myth started because
    - first it was a brute übercar with stunning performance (when it was able to beat a 512bbi with only 300hp on board) and
    - second because it could be a daily driver at the same time.
    now things have changed slightly...

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Since nobody post it yet here is data from Sport Auto test(not a Supertest!). Sorry if repost...

    997 Turbo(manual/PCCB/Normal tires)

    0-100km/h: 3.8s
    0-160km/h: 8.4s
    0-200km/h:12.7s
    80-120km/h: 4.0s/6.0s(5/6)
    80-180km/h: 9.6s/13.5s(5/6)
    Hockenheim: 1.13,7min
    Slalom 18m: 68.4km/h
    Weight: 1580kg

    Good or bad? You judge it! But, 997 Carrera S with X51,-20mm/LSD and PCCBs did Hockenheim is THE SAME TIME(!!!) 1.13,7min... And its Slalom 18m speed is 69.6km/h!



    Any word about a Tiptronic-equipped car yet?

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Trip, somehow I was thinking that you and some other members here will not be pleased with the test results but, there are not any "Men in Black" involved here!
    Conditions were almost perfect:
    Track temperature 36*
    Air temperature 25*
    Air pressure 1017 mbar

    So, please stop talking about Turbo as the best sportscar... Even in the article they said that car is clearly fast Gt in feeling, NOT a sportscar!
    Both Gallardo(1.11,8min) and F430F1(1.12,7min) are faster around Hockenheim then 997 Turbo manual(and TIP version is slower then manual). What about 997 GT3(1.11,7min) or Vette Z06(1.11,9min)?? All these cars were driven by same Sport Auto test team so please stop here.
    Even EVO in last issue tested 997 Turbo against CGT and Evo IX but, also against Gallardo in the article just one page behind CGT comparison. Guess who was the faster car on the track?! Gallardo of course!! By 2s!
    I am very sorry to say this but, 997 Turbo, even if equiped with Michelin Cups and LSD is not faster around Hockenheim then F430F1. Gallardo is simply in all another league(together with 997 GT3)...
    And about 997 Turbo been faster then any other car on public road in average hands... Are you absolutely sure about that??!! Well, on demanding road like old country road Zagreb-Rijeka(members like Mumbasic and Crash will know what I am talking about here!) in Croatia Gallardo is clearly more capable then 997 Turbo(manual/LSD)! And it is marginally faster on the autobahn. Guess who has the better traction? Gallardo...

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Trip, somehow I was thinking that you and some other members here will not be pleased with the test results but, there are not any "Men in Black" involved here!
    Conditions were almost perfect:
    Track temperature 36*
    Air temperature 25*
    Air pressure 1017 mbar

    So, please stop talking about Turbo as the best sportscar... Even in the article they said that car is clearly fast Gt in feeling, NOT a sportscar!
    Both Gallardo(1.11,8min) and F430F1(1.12,7min) are faster around Hockenheim then 997 Turbo manual(and TIP version is slower then manual). What about 997 GT3(1.11,7min) or Vette Z06(1.11,9min)?? All these cars were driven by same Sport Auto test team so please stop here.
    Even EVO in last issue tested 997 Turbo against CGT and Evo IX but, also against Gallardo in the article just one page behind CGT comparison. Guess who was the faster car on the track?! Gallardo of course!! By 2s!
    I am very sorry to say this but, 997 Turbo, even if equiped with Michelin Cups and LSD is not faster around Hockenheim then F430F1. Gallardo is simply in all another league(together with 997 GT3)...
    And about 997 Turbo been faster then any other car on public road in average hands... Are you absolutely sure about that??!! Well, on demanding road like old country road Zagreb-Rijeka(members like Mumbasic and Crash will know what I am talking about here!) in Croatia Gallardo is clearly more capable then 997 Turbo(manual/LSD)! And it is marginally faster on the autobahn. Guess who has the better traction? Gallardo...



    ...and can you imagine how an Audi R8 will perform?? the 420 hp version will beat the 997tt on any track, I'm pretty confident.
    I love this car already !!

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    i already posted them, but no problem.

    here is my original post:

    "hey guys, i just read the latest review from sport auto. they compared the 997TT with a CLK 63 AMG. sure, the porsche wins

    here are some acceleration times for the 997tt:
    0-80kmh: 2.8s
    0-100kmh: 3.8s
    0-180kmh: 10.5s
    0-200kmh: 12.7s

    and 80-180kmh in 4th gear: 7.9s

    the car had a manual transmission and they did not mention, if it had the sports chrono package...

    now my question:
    if you lokk at the acceleration times and substract the 0-80 time from the 0-180 time, you get the acceleration time from 80-180kmh under full acceleration using 2nd, 3rd and maybe 4th gear. the car needs for this discipline ~7.7s

    but how can the car need 7.9s for the same speed range just in 4th gear?

    can anybody help me?"

    what do you guys think about that?

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Stefan,
    The fastest 0-200km/h time for TIP is 12.1s!! So, THE FACT will be after German mags publish their TIP tests that both version(manual and TIP) are the same in acceleration!
    I guess that Porsche technical development stuff will now start to sing "THE END" from The Doors...

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Stefan,
    The fastest 0-200km/h time for TIP is 12.1s!! So, THE FACT will be after German mags publish their TIP tests that both version(manual and TIP) are the same in acceleration!
    I guess that Porsche technical development stuff will now start to sing "THE END" from The Doors...



    ..and in hindsight all this fuzz about the (marginally)faster acceleration times claimed by Porsche for the 997tt tiptronic becomes transparent:
    it was nothing more than a marketing ploy to distract from the fact that Porsche missed the boat on automated sports transmission by at least three years!!!

    and they try to sell their customers for stupid, as it often happend - I really wonder in which way they will try to sell the 7speed PDK car to a guy who just bought the tip two years earlier believeing he got a 'sporty' option..

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    I miss the Porsche that was less profitable.

    Seriously though... I think this profitability run will hit a wall soon when new buyers can't figure out why they keep seeing the bumper of a Lexus or Subaru.

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    I like my new 997tt. I have only driven it 1500 miles, but it is a delight and has enough performance for me in a street car. Since it can't compare with my Lola T-296 on the track, I don't even think about it. I also wouldn't get groceries in the Lola.

    I agree that the turbo has evolved over time into more of a gt driver, but in my mind that is OK because Porsche has introduced the GT2 for the street driver closer to a track drive. Also, the performance of the competition has definitely improved. If I compare my first Ferrari (348) to the current F430, there is no comparison. IMO this evolution is not bad. It may be sad, if one still thinks of the Turbo as the only car at the top of the pile. I just drove a new Gallardo and its impressive, but I would not drive it as my daily driver as I have done the Turbos for 15 years. The current iteration is a great car for the combination of daily driver, performance and quality.

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    I miss the Porsche that was less profitable.

    Seriously though... I think this profitability run will hit a wall soon when new buyers can't figure out why they keep seeing the bumper of a Lexus or Subaru.



    True. And it's only going to get tougher. The new TT disappoints me a bit.

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    In fact AutoBild tested the Turbo in their sportscar derivative. It was a manual and slightly behind the Gallardo on the Oschersleben track. I do not know the tire choices on these two cars though!

    Acc. to 100 kph was 3.7, to 200 kph 12.1 sec!

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    I really can't understand all the complaining....

    First of all,the Turbo has very spaced service intervalls.Oil change is only every 30,000km(the same as a Renault Laguna 2.0L diesel).
    Also,it's one of the cleanest sportscar.305 gramms of CO2 per kilometer.F430 and Gallardo are at over 400.
    Then,it isn't loud(inside and outside of the car).
    Furthermore,it's the safest 480hp car in the world.It's easy to drive under every condition.
    It's also very comfortable and relaxing.Because it has so much torque,you won't change gears very often.When can keep at very low revs.
    It also has a very good consumption.

    I've driven one and I was so impressed by the "serenity" of the car.I was a bit nervous at the beginning(it isn't mine and it is expensive) but I felt it was telling me to relax and that everything will be fine.
    Unfortunatly I don't have the money to own one but if I could I surely would.Would the fact that a let's say Donkervoort is faster than the Turbo around a track give me sleepless nights? Surely not.

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Who was driving? Someone other than Von Saurma? If so, don't worry he will come to the rescue in his drive around the full Ring.

    In all seriousness, Porsche has made a conscious marketing decision to provide a rather dull car made with blazing speed for public roads and highways. If you want an exciting car from Porsche, buy the GT3 or the widowmaker the GT2. But if you want a reasonably comfortable fast car which is non-distinct and blends well with millions of other cars on the road, the 997TT is the one.

    Personally, I would never pay almost $150,000 for such a car.

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    So don't buy one. I just did and I love it!

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    News flash: Nick doesn't like the turbo.

    Porsche Turbo = Everyday Supercar.
    Ferrari 430 = Passion.
    Nick = [censored].

    Why, oh why, do I torture myself reading Nick's rantings?

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Trip, somehow I was thinking that you and some other members here will not be pleased with the test results but, there are not any "Men in Black" involved here!
    Conditions were almost perfect:
    Track temperature 36*
    Air temperature 25*
    Air pressure 1017 mbar

    So, please stop talking about Turbo as the best sportscar... Even in the article they said that car is clearly fast Gt in feeling, NOT a sportscar!
    Both Gallardo(1.11,8min) and F430F1(1.12,7min) are faster around Hockenheim then 997 Turbo manual(and TIP version is slower then manual). What about 997 GT3(1.11,7min) or Vette Z06(1.11,9min)?? All these cars were driven by same Sport Auto test team so please stop here.
    Even EVO in last issue tested 997 Turbo against CGT and Evo IX but, also against Gallardo in the article just one page behind CGT comparison. Guess who was the faster car on the track?! Gallardo of course!! By 2s!
    I am very sorry to say this but, 997 Turbo, even if equiped with Michelin Cups and LSD is not faster around Hockenheim then F430F1. Gallardo is simply in all another league(together with 997 GT3)...
    And about 997 Turbo been faster then any other car on public road in average hands... Are you absolutely sure about that??!! Well, on demanding road like old country road Zagreb-Rijeka(members like Mumbasic and Crash will know what I am talking about here!) in Croatia Gallardo is clearly more capable then 997 Turbo(manual/LSD)! And it is marginally faster on the autobahn. Guess who has the better traction? Gallardo...


    How can you say a car is clearly more capable when the Turbo is both considerably faster, has better brakes, and laps the 'ring faster than the Gallardo? Saying the G is marginally faster on the Autobahn is a flat out lie. We've all seen the video and we've all seen the various 0-200kph tests so where do you get your info? You cannot honestly say that the Gallardo is in another league.

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Quote:
    turbolite said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Trip, somehow I was thinking that you and some other members here will not be pleased with the test results but, there are not any "Men in Black" involved here!
    Conditions were almost perfect:
    Track temperature 36*
    Air temperature 25*
    Air pressure 1017 mbar

    So, please stop talking about Turbo as the best sportscar... Even in the article they said that car is clearly fast Gt in feeling, NOT a sportscar!
    Both Gallardo(1.11,8min) and F430F1(1.12,7min) are faster around Hockenheim then 997 Turbo manual(and TIP version is slower then manual). What about 997 GT3(1.11,7min) or Vette Z06(1.11,9min)?? All these cars were driven by same Sport Auto test team so please stop here.
    Even EVO in last issue tested 997 Turbo against CGT and Evo IX but, also against Gallardo in the article just one page behind CGT comparison. Guess who was the faster car on the track?! Gallardo of course!! By 2s!
    I am very sorry to say this but, 997 Turbo, even if equiped with Michelin Cups and LSD is not faster around Hockenheim then F430F1. Gallardo is simply in all another league(together with 997 GT3)...
    And about 997 Turbo been faster then any other car on public road in average hands... Are you absolutely sure about that??!! Well, on demanding road like old country road Zagreb-Rijeka(members like Mumbasic and Crash will know what I am talking about here!) in Croatia Gallardo is clearly more capable then 997 Turbo(manual/LSD)! And it is marginally faster on the autobahn. Guess who has the better traction? Gallardo...



    ...and can you imagine how an Audi R8 will perform?? the 420 hp version will beat the 997tt on any track, I'm pretty confident.
    I love this car already !!


    We'll see...

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Quote:
    trip said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Trip, somehow I was thinking that you and some other members here will not be pleased with the test results but, there are not any "Men in Black" involved here!
    Conditions were almost perfect:
    Track temperature 36*
    Air temperature 25*
    Air pressure 1017 mbar

    So, please stop talking about Turbo as the best sportscar... Even in the article they said that car is clearly fast Gt in feeling, NOT a sportscar!
    Both Gallardo(1.11,8min) and F430F1(1.12,7min) are faster around Hockenheim then 997 Turbo manual(and TIP version is slower then manual). What about 997 GT3(1.11,7min) or Vette Z06(1.11,9min)?? All these cars were driven by same Sport Auto test team so please stop here.
    Even EVO in last issue tested 997 Turbo against CGT and Evo IX but, also against Gallardo in the article just one page behind CGT comparison. Guess who was the faster car on the track?! Gallardo of course!! By 2s!
    I am very sorry to say this but, 997 Turbo, even if equiped with Michelin Cups and LSD is not faster around Hockenheim then F430F1. Gallardo is simply in all another league(together with 997 GT3)...
    And about 997 Turbo been faster then any other car on public road in average hands... Are you absolutely sure about that??!! Well, on demanding road like old country road Zagreb-Rijeka(members like Mumbasic and Crash will know what I am talking about here!) in Croatia Gallardo is clearly more capable then 997 Turbo(manual/LSD)! And it is marginally faster on the autobahn. Guess who has the better traction? Gallardo...


    How can you say a car is clearly more capable when the Turbo is both considerably faster, has better brakes, and laps the 'ring faster than the Gallardo? Saying the G is marginally faster on the Autobahn is a flat out lie. We've all seen the video and we've all seen the various 0-200kph tests so where do you get your info? You cannot honestly say that the Gallardo is in another league.



    Trip, we haven't seen yet how the Gallardo performs at over 200 km/h. That video was inconclusive due to traffic. As you will note, I am a big fan of the Turbo, but thinking it is invincible might be just that - wishful thinking. Also, for the road which Kreso describes, there won't be much of a power contest, when they are so similar in horsepower, but more of a chassis contest. Now, I am sure the Turbo will perform flawlessly on that road (and I'm sure Kreso will gladly take a cameraman with an insane nickname to prove it ), but dismissing the Gallardo out of hand isn't too clever. The car has an awesome chassis and will give the Turbo a run for its money.

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    First, small error from me-997 Turbo is marginally faster on the autobahn! But, to call me flat out lier is clearlly sign of your age and lack of matters Trip!
    BTW, you did not have a chance to drive any of these cars so, that speaks for itself but, I will stop here about it.

    997 Turbo faster on the Ring then Gallardo??!! According to unofficial Porsche factory data you mean?! How about Sport Auto Supertest time in month or so... You will be very dissapointed with time that 997 Turbo will achive around Ring in von Saurma hands! A lot slower then 997 GT3 to give you some hint...

    Andrej, regarding perfect camera men for Zagreb-Rijeka road I will seriously try to arrange something for September! Gallardo(520hp, manual, Corsa's) is waiting, only I have to find available 997 Turbo(manual/LSD)! Maybe together(and with help of some other members) we could prove something interesting to fellow theoretical debate experts here on rennteam.
    Also, so far Gallardo was faster around Oschersleben(measured by Auto Zeitung and Auto Bild) and Hockenheim(Sport Auto) then 997 Turbo, that is THE FACT!
    Sorry Trip but, ignorance by you and some other people here is just funny IMO. And I ordered 997 Turbo and had a chance to drive both version unlike you...
    I also like 997 Turbo but, to call it best Sportscar in the world?! For who? You or me? To each their own I guess...

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Kreso it is funny how angry you get about me using the word lie, you were the one who made the error and I meant no offense by it. By the way, did the Gallardo (and f430 for that matter) tested in all of these events have corsas? if I remeber correctly it did. Comparing a car on street tires to one with track tires is ridiculous. The ignorance you display by making these comparisons surprises me . How about the cars in the supertest, are they all running street tires or are some wearing corsas? Again this makes a huge difference. Remember that the 997 turbo 6spd/LSD lapped the ring in 7:42 with Cup tires in the hands of Walter Rohl. Are you saying he made these numbers up? Porsche has been notoriously conservative with performance times (unlike some Italian brands) so I beleive him over you. I even read a claim by Motortrend of a the same turbo hitting 7:40. Now they are obviously less credible but impressive numbers none the less. Bringing up my age is a pretty cheap shot and fairly irrelevant considering I have never displayed a lack of knowledge on the subject.

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Quote:
    trip said:
    Kreso it is funny how angry you get about me using the word lie, you were the one who made the error and I meant no offense by it. By the way, did the Gallardo (and f430 for that matter) tested in all of these events have corsas? if I remeber correctly it did. Comparing a car on street tires to one with track tires is ridiculous. The ignorance you display by making these comparisons surprises me . How about the cars in the supertest, are they all running street tires or are some wearing corsas? Again this makes a huge difference. Remember that the 997 turbo 6spd/LSD lapped the ring in 7:42 with Cup tires in the hands of Walter Rohl. Are you saying he made these numbers up? Porsche has been notoriously conservative with performance times (unlike some Italian brands) so I beleive him over you. I even read a claim by Motortrend of a the same turbo hitting 7:40. Now they are obviously less credible but impressive numbers none the less. Bringing up my age is a pretty cheap shot and fairly irrelevant considering I have never displayed a lack of knowledge on the subject.



    Trip, calling Kreso a liar WAS going too far, although I'm sure you didn't mean it in that way. The problem wirth Porsche's claimed factory times for the Ring is that they are just that - claimed. I don't trust Porsche any more than Chevrolet with its 7:42.9 time. Kreso really knows what he's talking about, so let's put our porschephile feelings aside for a moment. After all, he HAS a Turbo on order and if he says that about the car, then you can be sure he isn't pulling things out of his rear.

    Kreso, looking forward to it!

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    I just said that I didn't mean that he was a liar. I still stand behind the argument that the Gallardo and F430 had Corsas in the tests that he mentioned. Whatever they are all great cars.

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Andrej, then you are the camera men for that event!
    Trip, no hard feelings from me. You are just little bit too much in love with 997 Turbo! That can fog your judgment little bit IMO.

    Here are Hockenheim times achived by Sport Auto:
    Audi RS4(Corsa's): 1.15,4min
    BMW M6(Corsa's): 1.14,4min
    Corvette Z06: 1.11,9min
    Ferrari F430F1(Corsa's): 1.12,7min
    Ford GT: 1,14,1min
    Lamborghini Gallardo(Corsa's): 1.11,8min(old 500hp version)
    Lamborghini Gallardo(Corsa's): 1.11,6min(new 520hp version)
    Porsche 997 Carrera S(X51,-20mm/LSD,PCCB): 1.13,7min
    Porsche 997 Turbo(Manual,PCCB): 1.13,7min
    Porsche 997 GT3(PCCB, Michelin Cup's): 1.11,7min
    Porsche CGT: 1.08,6min

    Sport tires like Corsa's bring only about 0.5s around short track(2,6km) like Hockenheim Kleinkurs so, tires are not any advantage here but, chassis setup and traction.
    Ring time 7.40min by Motor Trend?! Wishfull thinking or dreaming by Motor Trend stuff!

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    It can be seen that Hockenheim defnitely favors the lighter cars! The Gallardo must have amazing traction in those tight turns. However on a longer track such as the 'ring the Turbo's speed advantage seems to make up for its heavier weight. I would still like to see all cars tested with the same tires, until then these numbers must be taken with a grain of salt (becoming a real cliche around here). I'm also curious as to whether or not the turbo had LSD, that coupled with tires could make a real difference. Surprising how slow the Ford GT is compared to its mid engined competitors. Simply amazing time for the CGT.

    Re: 997 Turbo test in Sport Auto

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:Sport tires like Corsa's bring only about 0.5s around short track(2,6km) like Hockenheim Kleinkurs so, tires are not any advantage here


    I have to disagree with this statement. At a very tight techical track of 1.7 miles (~2.7km)where I live, changing to Michelin Cups caused lap times to be at least 3 seconds faster...

     
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