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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    And other car makers won't use such a cheap memory chip that's consumer grade and not automotive grade in the first place. Such a problem would have been caught a long time ago in testing phase as Tesla knew the memory will get loads of read/write cycles, they wrote the damn software after all. 🤷🏻‍♂️

    Of course it's better now, Tesla is in better financial shape so they can afford to pay a little extra for better product. But back then Tesla isn't flush with cash and need to penny pinch.

     

     

    Musk, to grab headlines, made deliberate decisions to incorporate consumer grade and not automotive grade components in its vehicles.  We also know that Tesla’s testing protocols are no where as extensive as those employed by the major automakers.  There a poster or two on here that like to talk about how fast Tesla moves without understanding the risks of an incomplete development cycle has for the company and consumer. 


    Re: Tesla

    To be fair, they were badly in need of revenue before, in order to push their product out fast, that's the only choice.

    Now that they are flushed with cash, they can afford to spend the time and effort to actually make a car properly, if they chooses.

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Musk is clever. He will move where there is the gap. The fanatics will follow the trend. 


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla

    the-missile:

    Musk is clever. He will move where there is the gap. The fanatics will follow the trend. 

    You guys are hopeless. It is the customers of the non EV cars who are now the fanatics. Defined as those irrationally supportive. 
    Unless you want to argue owning a Tesla (not the stock) is irrational. 


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    To be fair, they were badly in need of revenue before, in order to push their product out fast, that's the only choice.

    Now that they are flushed with cash, they can afford to spend the time and effort to actually make a car properly, if they chooses.

     

    That is not correct.  Musk personally made the decisions to incorporate larger displays into the cars than what the automotive grade vendors were providing at that time.  It had nothing to do with the financial wherewithal of the company and everything to do with him making decisions on a whim. 


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    To be fair, they were badly in need of revenue before, in order to push their product out fast, that's the only choice.

    Now that they are flushed with cash, they can afford to spend the time and effort to actually make a car properly, if they chooses.

     

    Is there such are thing as automotive grade memory or are you guys just pulling that out of your butts?  One of the technical issues was that the software was making far too much use of the memory. Writing to it for too many events. Correct me if I’m wrong but there is no memory made which can read and write indefinitely. 
    Trust me when I tell you the extremes the Tesla doubters go through to make their case - weak as it is - pales by comparison to my comments. You guys are hilarious. Total denial. It is kinda cute. Please don’t stop. 


    Re: Tesla

    Educate yourself on the topic starting with this article.  https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:

    To be fair, they were badly in need of revenue before, in order to push their product out fast, that's the only choice.

    Now that they are flushed with cash, they can afford to spend the time and effort to actually make a car properly, if they chooses.

     

    That is not correct.  Musk personally made the decisions to incorporate larger displays into the cars than what the automotive grade vendors were providing at that time.  It had nothing to do with the financial wherewithal of the company and everything to do with him making decisions on a whim. 

     

    And those were cheap consumer grade panels that can ghost and whatnots. 

    For roughly the same price he can either have a automotive grade display, or a 'giant' one for headlines. 


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    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    To be fair, they were badly in need of revenue before, in order to push their product out fast, that's the only choice.

    Now that they are flushed with cash, they can afford to spend the time and effort to actually make a car properly, if they chooses.

     

    Is there such are thing as automotive grade memory or are you guys just pulling that out of your butts?  One of the technical issues was that the software was making far too much use of the memory. Writing to it for too many events. Correct me if I’m wrong but there is no memory made which can read and write indefinitely. 
    Trust me when I tell you the extremes the Tesla doubters go through to make their case - weak as it is - pales by comparison to my comments. You guys are hilarious. Total denial. It is kinda cute. Please don’t stop. 

     

    You an IT guy, pretty sure you follow computer news. Which means you would also knows there are different grades read/write memory. There is the consumer retail level, and then there are the much more expensive enterprise grade ones. The higher grade enterprise ones can endure a lot more read/write cycles. 

    The SSD inside one of Amazon's servers can endure a lot more cycles than that in your laptop for example. Cost a hell lot more too. 

    If you don't mind, please take off the Tesla goggles first. 


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    Re: Tesla

    The automotive environment is much more harsh than many consider. Temperatures can range from Arctic lows to oven like highs as the cabin heat soaks on a hot and sunny Summer day.  That same automobile is exposed to driving rain, sand, and ice.  There’s tremendous shock over the service life from driving over less-than-perfect pavement. Think at the jolts an off-road truck encounters.  Then there’s the high levels of EMFs generated from the car and others around it.     Now repeat these environmental issues over and over again for twenty or more years.  This is far in excess of what a consumer electronics device, outside the automobile, encounters. 


    Re: Tesla

    Tesla in its arguments presented to NHTSA stated that the touchscreen components only had an estimated life span of 5 to 6 years, suggesting that the company considers the is expensive component a consumable item equivalent to a brake pad.  Makes one wonder what else has that same design philosophy in their cars. https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39065/tesla-claims-failing-touchscreens-in-nhtsa-recall-were-only-meant-to-last-5-6-years-anyway


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    the-missile:

    Musk is clever. He will move where there is the gap. The fanatics will follow the trend. 

    You guys are hopeless. It is the customers of the non EV cars who are now the fanatics. Defined as those irrationally supportive. 
    Unless you want to argue owning a Tesla (not the stock) is irrational. 

    I like and respect Musk for what is doing. the crowd which is fanatic and following him is a different story. For me Tesla is not bad or good. I see EV as the future. I was not impressed by the finish standard and assembly but for the price proposed, you can't complain.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla

    I believe that without Tesla the European manufacturers would be still far behind in EV cars/tech. Tesla was a wake up call to them.

    So far I had no inclination to buy a Tesla....just as I have no inclination to buy an American car in general. But with time Tesla might very well become the equivalent of Apple in the Automotive world. Maybe not as dominant and with the main focus on their core product which is a car.....but very innovative and consumer/lifestyle oriented.

    Its always good to have competition that is different to the mainstream.....guess its what we call innovation.


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    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.


    Re: Tesla

    Audi e-tron GT official launch on 9 February 2021...  E0F26BDD-E91B-4EF4-964B-7C4204B9E420.gif

    ...based on initial enquiries, the Audi e-tron GT is going to be rather popular with existing Audi customers! Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Tesla in its arguments presented to NHTSA stated that the touchscreen components only had an estimated life span of 5 to 6 years, suggesting that the company considers the is expensive component a consumable item equivalent to a brake pad.  Makes one wonder what else has that same design philosophy in their cars. https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39065/tesla-claims-failing-touchscreens-in-nhtsa-recall-were-only-meant-to-last-5-6-years-anyway

    This is getting funny. As an IT guy I understand the cause of the failure was not harsh conditions or temperature. It was the overly verbose use of the memory which caused to many and frequent memory writes. It does not matter if these were in a moving car or in cold weather - the memory had a limited number of cycles.  Sure there are higher quality or lower quality components out there but you might want to learn about why memory fails due to overuse. That said it was Tesla’s fault to make it write so frequently and not take this into long term account. 
    To start to accuse Tesla of building cars which don’t last on purpose is a riot. As though for decades automakers have been building cars which do not benefit their service departments and which are literally designed to fall apart the day after the warranty so you buy a new one. Meanwhile Tesla takes great care to make their 8 year old cars, which are long out of warranty, just like the new one off the showroom floor with each software update. Of all car makers they are last on my shit list for milking the customer and tops on my list for going out of their way to keep existing customers delighted.  
    Case in point they have sky high customer satisfaction, an incredible safety record and they don’t need to advertise.  
    This has causes people to be so incredibly insecure that anyone telling the truth about Tesla and daring to call bullshit on them is seen as some type of fanboy.  You know what is funny - every automaker would kill to have an army of loyal customers but they don’t build products which come even close to generating this type of loyal support. Am I wrong?  Here is my favorite argument -  check your driveway in five years. Lol. 


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:

    To be fair, they were badly in need of revenue before, in order to push their product out fast, that's the only choice.

    Now that they are flushed with cash, they can afford to spend the time and effort to actually make a car properly, if they chooses.

     

    That is not correct.  Musk personally made the decisions to incorporate larger displays into the cars than what the automotive grade vendors were providing at that time.  It had nothing to do with the financial wherewithal of the company and everything to do with him making decisions on a whim. 

    And this is the problem if you don’t vertically integrate but screens are not logical to make in this case. That evil Musk insisting on a bigger display for his customers. (I don’t get how that was so bad). Are you certain all other automakers are not also offering screens which are too big and untested?  
    Im certain all the other automakers or all companies for that matter never make decisions on a whim. How horrible. All those whims and crazy plans sure are not working out for him.  I’m sure if you guys could have advised him early on and educated him on all that crazy cool stuff you guys know he would have turned Tesla around and not been such a failure. 
    Oh please find me more evil problems Musk has infected his customers with.   This is so entertaining cause you don’t hear yourself. It m going to start posting the negative Tesla press you are missing out on since it delights you so much.   And I will do it without insulting anyone!  Yeah


    Re: Tesla

    Once again, your arguments lack merit and are devoid of integrity.  Tesla fought NHTSA for years to avoid this recall and it is Tesla itself making the statement, in legal filings, that it knew expensive components would fail within a relatively brief period of time of ownership.  Your blind allegiance has forced you to take a side opposite even of Tesla; you are a joke.  


    Re: Tesla

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Audi e-tron GT official launch on 9 February 2021...  E0F26BDD-E91B-4EF4-964B-7C4204B9E420.gif

    ...based on initial enquiries, the Audi e-tron GT is going to be rather popular with existing Audi customers! Smiley

    Teaser video before the launch. https://youtu.be/IZiwE4X0lKw


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Once again, your arguments lack merit and are devoid of integrity.  Tesla fought NHTSA for years to avoid this recall and it is Tesla itself making the statement, in legal filings, that it knew expensive components would fail within a relatively brief period of time of ownership.  Your blind allegiance has forced you to take a side opposite even of Tesla; you are a joke.  

    Please let me know which arguments lack integrity or merit. (Not that I was not expecting a personal attack vs substance). I posted yesterday that Tesla fought the recall for a long time.  I don’t doubt they were aware of possible issues but they are also not evil in trying to provide a bigger screen nor are they evil for concerning themselves about the duration of the warranty and not beyond.  Look, if you want to see evil everywhere and look foolish go ahead.  Your personal attacks on me are just fabulous.  You don’t even notice that I blamed the software for being too verbose - another thing Tesla admits if you know about this failure. Software is 100% their fault - but you can’t see me writing anything bad about Tesla even though I constantly do if you choose to tune in on a more normal frequency. Smiley

    Do you hold any other carmaker or company for that matter to these lofty standards? Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:

    Once again, reading comprehension alludes you.  The post and linked article was about the federal government forcing Tesla to recall vehicles containing defective components and design. 

    I read the article. My response indicated this was a well known failure to everyone. Many owners spent their own money if out of warranty to fix it. After years of dispute with Tesla over how to categorize the failure and who should pay the feds decided it was a defect Tesla should pay for. 
    I have little problem with reading comprehension and my post was to the point. Maybe read my posts a bit longer, they don’t even contain links in this case. 
    So to recap - an outsourced memory chip combined with too many read and write operations caused the chip to wear out. Can you think of any other cars, computers, appliances etc which use memory chips which have a limited number of read and write operations?  Not exactly a Tesla specific phenomenon nor did it cause any crashes or injuries. 
    So hence it was not big news to me. Maybe to you. I’m certain the VW board members are just hearing about it for the first time as well and expecting Tesla to give up. 

    Perhaps you missed this post where I explain the exact same thing. Yes Tesla and the feds did not see eye to eye on this.  Wow


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    To be fair, they were badly in need of revenue before, in order to push their product out fast, that's the only choice.

    Now that they are flushed with cash, they can afford to spend the time and effort to actually make a car properly, if they chooses.

     

    Is there such are thing as automotive grade memory or are you guys just pulling that out of your butts?  One of the technical issues was that the software was making far too much use of the memory. Writing to it for too many events. Correct me if I’m wrong but there is no memory made which can read and write indefinitely. 
    Trust me when I tell you the extremes the Tesla doubters go through to make their case - weak as it is - pales by comparison to my comments. You guys are hilarious. Total denial. It is kinda cute. Please don’t stop. 

     

    You an IT guy, pretty sure you follow computer news. Which means you would also knows there are different grades read/write memory. There is the consumer retail level, and then there are the much more expensive enterprise grade ones. The higher grade enterprise ones can endure a lot more read/write cycles. 

    The SSD inside one of Amazon's servers can endure a lot more cycles than that in your laptop for example. Cost a hell lot more too. 

    If you don't mind, please take off the Tesla goggles first. 

    Hmm Amazon server money ?  This is not a Rolex or Bentley type car. As you point out this is more of a Timex or Kia. Smiley

    Do car makers spend good money to ensure their cars run forever or do they aim for the warranty period to make more sales and repairs?  How do you think automakers feel about 8 year old Tesla’s getting OTA updates to keep them current?  How do you think Tesla owners feel about this and the fact that each new model looks like theirs and does not screw them with missing updates without buying a new one?  As someone who buys a lot of cars to stay current this may mean something to you. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    To be fair, they were badly in need of revenue before, in order to push their product out fast, that's the only choice.

    Now that they are flushed with cash, they can afford to spend the time and effort to actually make a car properly, if they chooses.

     

    Is there such are thing as automotive grade memory or are you guys just pulling that out of your butts?  One of the technical issues was that the software was making far too much use of the memory. Writing to it for too many events. Correct me if I’m wrong but there is no memory made which can read and write indefinitely. 
    Trust me when I tell you the extremes the Tesla doubters go through to make their case - weak as it is - pales by comparison to my comments. You guys are hilarious. Total denial. It is kinda cute. Please don’t stop. 

     

    You an IT guy, pretty sure you follow computer news. Which means you would also knows there are different grades read/write memory. There is the consumer retail level, and then there are the much more expensive enterprise grade ones. The higher grade enterprise ones can endure a lot more read/write cycles. 

    The SSD inside one of Amazon's servers can endure a lot more cycles than that in your laptop for example. Cost a hell lot more too. 

    If you don't mind, please take off the Tesla goggles first. 

    Hmm Amazon server money ?  This is not a Rolex or Bentley type car. As you point out this is more of a Timex or Kia. Smiley

    Do car makers spend good money to ensure their cars run forever or do they aim for the warranty period to make more sales and repairs?  How do you think automakers feel about 8 year old Tesla’s getting OTA updates to keep them current?  How do you think Tesla owners feel about this and the fact that each new model looks like theirs and does not screw them with missing updates without buying a new one?  As someone who buys a lot of cars to stay current this may mean something to you. 

     

    You know full well what I am talking about buddy. Why argue about it just for argument sake?

    8 yr old Model S don't have the latest hardware, that's nothing OTA updates can fix or change.

    Sure, a 8 yr old computer can be running Windows 10 instead of Windows 7 and make it 'looks' just as new as a current one that's also running Windows 10. It also gets all the latest Windows Updates too, but that doesn't make it a current computer. But using your argument, they are the same.

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    He thinks he has an answer and reply for everything.  It's all irrelevant as Tesla is facing unparalleled competition in the marketplace that it has never faced before.  This is a game of attrition and Tesla is not the longterm winner.  


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    He thinks he has an answer and reply for everything.  It's all irrelevant as Tesla is facing unparalleled competition in the marketplace that it has never faced before.  This is a game of attrition and Tesla is not the longterm winner.  

    I do like me a good discussion. We shall see who comes out on top. 
    btw do the others have a choice but to compete and what does this tell you about who is ahead?  Who needs to shift from ICE and who has the deep pockets?  Do you want to list all the areas the legacy automakers need to create from scratch or improve to start to compete?  I see lots of investment as a last ditch attempt to stay in business. What would any of their stock price be to f they indicated EV was not being considered and they were sticking with ICE?  


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    To be fair, they were badly in need of revenue before, in order to push their product out fast, that's the only choice.

    Now that they are flushed with cash, they can afford to spend the time and effort to actually make a car properly, if they chooses.

     

    Is there such are thing as automotive grade memory or are you guys just pulling that out of your butts?  One of the technical issues was that the software was making far too much use of the memory. Writing to it for too many events. Correct me if I’m wrong but there is no memory made which can read and write indefinitely. 
    Trust me when I tell you the extremes the Tesla doubters go through to make their case - weak as it is - pales by comparison to my comments. You guys are hilarious. Total denial. It is kinda cute. Please don’t stop. 

     

    You an IT guy, pretty sure you follow computer news. Which means you would also knows there are different grades read/write memory. There is the consumer retail level, and then there are the much more expensive enterprise grade ones. The higher grade enterprise ones can endure a lot more read/write cycles. 

    The SSD inside one of Amazon's servers can endure a lot more cycles than that in your laptop for example. Cost a hell lot more too. 

    If you don't mind, please take off the Tesla goggles first. 

    Hmm Amazon server money ?  This is not a Rolex or Bentley type car. As you point out this is more of a Timex or Kia. Smiley

    Do car makers spend good money to ensure their cars run forever or do they aim for the warranty period to make more sales and repairs?  How do you think automakers feel about 8 year old Tesla’s getting OTA updates to keep them current?  How do you think Tesla owners feel about this and the fact that each new model looks like theirs and does not screw them with missing updates without buying a new one?  As someone who buys a lot of cars to stay current this may mean something to you. 

     

    You know full well what I am talking about buddy. Why argue about it just for argument sake?

    8 yr old Model S don't have the latest hardware, that's nothing OTA updates can fix or change.

    Sure, a 8 yr old computer can be running Windows 10 instead of Windows 7 and make it 'looks' just as new as a current one that's also running Windows 10. It also gets all the latest Windows Updates too, but that doesn't make it a current computer. But using your argument, they are the same.

     

     

    Of course OTA can’t update hardware although the f you buy self driving there is no charge to update the hardware. Else you would not really need it. It functions the same. You ignore that no other automaker takes a similar approach but rather chooses to milk customers. That’s okay.  I think others reading this thread get the idea. 


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    He thinks he has an answer and reply for everything.  It's all irrelevant as Tesla is facing unparalleled competition in the marketplace that it has never faced before.  This is a game of attrition and Tesla is not the longterm winner.  

    You seem so bitter at so many fronts. Maybe you should write more about stuff you like than stuff you hate .. its also better for your karma


    Re: Tesla

    schmoell:
    CGX car nut:

    He thinks he has an answer and reply for everything.  It's all irrelevant as Tesla is facing unparalleled competition in the marketplace that it has never faced before.  This is a game of attrition and Tesla is not the longterm winner.  

    You seem so bitter at so many fronts. Maybe you should write more about stuff you like than stuff you hate .. its also better for your karma

    Karma?  Is this the act according to our wishes or else threat?


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Audi e-tron GT official launch on 9 February 2021...  E0F26BDD-E91B-4EF4-964B-7C4204B9E420.gif

    ...based on initial enquiries, the Audi e-tron GT is going to be rather popular with existing Audi customers! Smiley

    Teaser video before the launch. https://youtu.be/IZiwE4X0lKw

    Nice video. Sharing that link certainly generated some positive Karma  Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    The only karma I know is Karma Police by Radiohead. Audi’s production competencies are on display at Böllinger Höfe with that EV and the R8 final assembly on the same line. 


    Re: Tesla

    Karma, vol. 2: from Jalopnik. https://jalopnik.com/here-s-how-tesla-tsbs-expose-manufacturing-troubles-1846016877

    Hammering Panels And Installing Missing Suspension Bolts: Tesla's Repair Guidelines Are Insight Into Its Manufacturing Problems

     

    Illustration for article titled Hammering Panels And Installing Missing Suspension Bolts: Teslas Repair Guidelines Are Insight Into Its Manufacturing Problems

    Illustration: Jason Torchinsky/Tesla/NHTSA

    We’ve heard it endlessly, and it’s still true: Making cars is hard. One of the ways this message is delivered to the masses is through the reports of manufacturing glitches, sometimes as recalls. For smaller issues, reminders may come in the form of Technical Service Bulletins, documents that car companies create to provide repair instructions for those issues. 

    TSBs often give us an idea of where things went wrong or were missed during production. We’ve explored TSBs for vehicles like the Alfa Romeo Giuliain the past as a way to try to get a better idea of why owners and members of the media were experiencing issues with the car. Let’s take a look at some Tesla bulletins relating to the Tesla Model 3 and Model Y to get an idea of the problems Tesla has been seeing in vehicle production.

     

    Illustration for article titled Hammering Panels And Installing Missing Suspension Bolts: Teslas Repair Guidelines Are Insight Into Its Manufacturing Problems

    Screenshot: Tesla via NHTSA

    One of the most recent bulletins for the Model 3 is SB-20-16-003, which instructs service centers to look for missing bolts on the busbars for the high-voltage battery that powers the drive motors. The bulletin states that “Certain Model 3 high-voltage batteries may not have a sufficient quantity of bolts for the contactor DC link busbars, which may prevent the vehicle from charging or powering properly” as these busbars connect the battery to the rest of the high voltage system.

     

    undefined

    Screenshot: Tesla via NHTSA

    The TSB follows up with instructions to inspect the terminals if bolts turn out to be missing, as the lack of contact may cause arcing burns on the joints or terminals. Tesla does not list the number of vehicles that may be affected, but says that the TSB applies to some Model 3s from the 2018 and 2019 model years. Technicians are asked to take photos of cars with missing bolts prior to repair.

    Cars leaving the factory with missing fasteners is an uncommon issue in modern automotive manufacturing, as there are tools and procedures to prevent such issues. Most factories use nutrunners in conjunction with programmable logic controllers, or PLCs, that prevent a car from being released to the next station on the assembly line until all nuts are accounted for. Tesla makes use of some automation, but Model 3 production was also expanded at a hasty pace and came to involve a lot of manual processes, so it is not hard to see how something like this may have happened

     

    Illustration for article titled Hammering Panels And Installing Missing Suspension Bolts: Teslas Repair Guidelines Are Insight Into Its Manufacturing Problems

    Screenshot: Tesla via NHTSA

    Another TSB dives into clearance issues that might result in parts not sitting flush such as TSB SB-20-10-001, which applies to protruding charge port doors on the Model 3 and Model Y. The document instructs technicians to check the distance from the edge of the charge port door to the taillight assembly and to make a repair if it sticks out more than 1.5 millimeters. 

     

    Illustration for article titled Hammering Panels And Installing Missing Suspension Bolts: Teslas Repair Guidelines Are Insight Into Its Manufacturing Problems

    Screenshot: Tesla via NHTSA

    The repair procedure involves removing the charge port door assembly along with the taillight assembly, and bending the sheetmetal behind them, either using a paintless dent repair kit provided by Tesla or a dead-blow hammer if that kit is not available. Technicians are instructed to protect the corners that are being hammered with tape in order to minimize paint damage. Once the corners are hammered in, technicians are instructed to apply touch-up paint if necessary to fix any paint damage.

     

    Illustration for article titled Hammering Panels And Installing Missing Suspension Bolts: Teslas Repair Guidelines Are Insight Into Its Manufacturing Problems

    Screenshot: Tesla via NHTSA

    Missing bolts are not just limited to the Model 3, as bulletin SB-20-31-012 for the Model Y states that some cars may have missing or loose suspension bolts, which are meant to hold the steering knuckle to the upper control arm. Since this is a potential safety issue, Tesla issued a recall bulletin, which means that all affected vehicles have to be repaired. (TSBs do not require a repair unless there is a customer complaint or a technician notices it while diagnosing another issue.) According to earlier reports, this issue affects 401 Model Ys.

     

    Illustration for article titled Hammering Panels And Installing Missing Suspension Bolts: Teslas Repair Guidelines Are Insight Into Its Manufacturing Problems

    Screenshot: Tesla via NHTSA

    One of the odder bulletins in the list applies to the whole Tesla lineup, specifically the Autopilot driver-assistance system. Bulletin SB-20-17-001 states that Autopilot could be affected by ASR-9 airport radar systems, which may cause electromagnetic interference resulting in Autopilot or camera alerts popping up on the screen. 

    The solution to the issue is a Tesla-developed electromagnetic interference shielding gasket that needs to be installed on the Autopilot computer in the Model S and Model X; On the Model 3, it’s installed on the main computer, where Autopilot functionality in controlled.

    Monitoring technical service bulletins on the NHTSA website can be a good method of discovering common issues with a given car and learning what repair procedures look like, especially for secretive manufacturers like Tesla that seem to release repair information only where required by law.

    While we said above that issues like missing bolts are “uncommon,” they’re definitely not unheard of, as Dan (we’ll keep his last name hidden), a quality engineer working for a major automaker, told us. Here are his thoughts on the suspension bolt TSB: 

    The thing everyone has to remember is that making a car is hard! Years of R&D, trial builds, and extensive training is no match for a line worker having a bad day and missing a bolt. These things happen. Sometimes, these are even out of the OEM’s hands as a supplier made the mistake. Missing bolts happen.

    What is most concerning is that these left the plant with missing bolts that can impact the vehicle’s function. There should be some level of preventive measures to ensure parts are not missing, like marking bolts after installation/torque. The suspension service bulletin with the missing nuts is especially scary, considering the OK images don’t have any marking showing that those were properly installed. I certainly would like to not have the whole knuckle falling off the upper control arm resulting in a crash. Maybe Autopilot could handle that? /s

    Dan continued, providing his opinion on Tesla’s charge port issue:

    The flushness issue at the charge port is also concerning as that means somewhere in their stamping and welding processes, there is a large amount of variation. To me this says the processes are not well controlled allowing for a high standard deviation with fit and finish. It is tough to tell in pictures, but flushness concerns on the side panel like that could mean there are sealing concerns on the body in white where gaps occur between the stamped sheet metal. I think “The Drive” article on this mentioned rust on them already in that area meaning water leaks are occurring. But again, this is not unusual in manufacturing especially with new model maturation. It is unusual that these are very visually apparent problems and literally hundreds of eyes look at it without reporting the issue. Their final quality department should catch these so either their quality department is not looking for fit and finish concerns or they are finding these concerns and shipping cars without repairing them.

    Overall, none of these issues surprise me. This is why OEMs who have been building cars for decades don’t have these issues nearly as much as Tesla. It takes time to learn from mistakes. You can have manufacturing experts on your team from the best companies in the world, and at the end of the day, they can’t control all of the variables that go into automotive manufacturing. Murphy’s law strikes again!

    To me, these issues making it to market is the real concern for Tesla as it proves that they are more concerned about selling cars than building high quality cars. This makes them money in the short term. And clearly, they still are selling to a blissfully ignorant audience that is more happy to be behind the wheel of new tech than a good car. However, with the established OEMs catching up with EV offerings, I think that will really hurt Tesla’s reputation. Once you get past the Tesla cult, the average consumer will want a higher quality vehicle. If Tesla’s vehicle quality does not improve, they will hurt in the long run.

    It’s worth repeating that this is one opinion from a manufacturing engineer working for a competing car company. Still, it’s always good to have input from engineering experts on these types of things. It’s also worth noting that Tesla boss Elon Musk himself admitted in a recent interview with engineering consultancy Munro & Associates that Tesla has struggled with manufacturing, especially as the company rapidly ramped up vehicle production.


     
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