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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    So far, it does look quite good. kiss


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Let the depreciation begin!


    --

    There is nothing stronger than gentleness.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I'm just going to plonk this here, whilst I'm not really a drag fan and I actually do not advocate tuning Mclarens as I think they are extremely well set up from the factory this vid is quite incredible the engine has just a reworked turbo (in the same housing) , an exhaust (prob cat delete) and a tune and with sticky tyres it achieves this !!

    They saw 880Whp on the dynojet and it has been timed 0-300kph in 15s all through 2 wheel drive angel

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQSiJsf7-BU


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    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    2018 McLaren 720S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Assuming they didn't put it a mechanical diff, it did all that through one wheel!?!

    I find it so difficult to understand how they do this. Is there a write-up/video explaining the black magic?


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Not one wheel.

    McLaren and always used the brakes to simulate a mechanical diff, so the car simply brakes the wheels with too much wheel spin, basically control the 2 wheels rotation to be the same. 


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Now I really want to buy one:

    https://www.menshealth.com/technology-gear/a26990660/mclaren-supercar-crash-safety/


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Amazing story and amazing tech at work there. Still I think, that they were lucky


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Great PR though, could have been a horror story...


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    750LT will be the one to have, then some mods on top of the lighter body... 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    McLaren at Goodwood... 

    1554669534806image.jpeg

    Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    schmoell:

    Amazing story and amazing tech at work there. Still I think, that they were lucky

    They were lucky...the rollover actually saved their lives. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    GT3ZZZ:

    750LT will be the one to have, then some mods on top of the lighter body... 

    750LT? I thought it is going to be called 770LT? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    GT3ZZZ:

    750LT will be the one to have, then some mods on top of the lighter body... 

     

    Nah, it’s the that’s coming after the current one is the one to have.

    With McLaren, there is never a right time to buy, every choice will be a wrong one as a better one is always around the corner.


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    GT3ZZZ:

    750LT will be the one to have, then some mods on top of the lighter body... 

     

    Nah, it’s the that’s coming after the current one is the one to have.

    With McLaren, there is never a right time to buy, every choice will be a wrong one as a better one is always around the corner.

    The thing is: After the 720S, I'm not sure if McLaren needs to build something more powerful. I would concentrate on driving performance improvements (track, etc.) and other optimizations like better throttle response and less turbo lag.

    Maybe also time for an AWD McLaren? Smiley Smiley Just imagine a 720S 4WD, even if it weights 50 kg more. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    GT3ZZZ:

    750LT will be the one to have, then some mods on top of the lighter body... 

     

    Nah, it’s the that’s coming after the current one is the one to have.

    With McLaren, there is never a right time to buy, every choice will be a wrong one as a better one is always around the corner.

    Why hold back the new tech and improvements when they are ready? I actually like that McLaren releases cars when ready and not wait on some stupid 4+3=7 years upgrade cycle. Why would the 2019 model of any car not be better than the 2018? Dinosaurs like Porsche will have to adapt to the faster and OTA updates, they have enjoyed slow refresh cycles to maximize profits, but now competition have caught up to them. Adding 20hp every 4 years? Good luck with that. Everything I read says the 720S is THE road car to own today bar none. Expecting this to be true more than a couple of year seems too simple.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Been hearing the same thing for the last two decades yet Porsches keep being more and more popular cycle after cycle. McLaren does that because the "need to" to compete, Porsche doesn't.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    The 720S is a great sportscar and a monster but I wouldn't get one. It completely opposes why I am looking for in a sportscar but it is a very fine piece of automotive tech, no doubt. I wish Lamborghini would build the same lightweight cars McLaren does.

    Since I enjoy driving on country roads, pass roads and similar roads (the Autobahn is no fun anymore, it was fun when driving over 300 kph was a novelty but it wear off fast), I want a car I can push hard, even without passing the legal speed limit and exceeding certain "boundaries" on public roads. A 720S is not only complete overkill for that, it just isn't fun because you need to be extremely cautious.

    The lack of proper engine/exhaust sound (for me, others seem to enjoy it), the turbo lag (many say there isn't one but it is very very obvious, especially if you switch back to a n/a car) and the traction issues if the road isn't completely dry/clean or the tires aren't really warmed up yet, make the car no real fun if you want to push it hard.

    Autobahn? Track (with the proper warming up)? Very nice car and for the power/performance it delivers, a real bargain, no doubt.

    20 years ago...oh wait...10 years ago...I would have gone for the 720S without thinking twice. Now? Well, you know the rest of the story. In speed limited countries, the 720S is a car which makes no sense whatsoever anyway but I guess people get it for various reasons, including bragging rights. Right now, I would probably get the 600LT if I were interested in a McLaren, just the right amount of power in a very sporty package.

    I am very impressed with what McLaren is offering, especially considering how long ago they started making sports cars. I am also highly disappointed with Porsche and even Lamborghini because they lost the weight and hp war against McLaren and I don't have a clue why. On the other hand, I am deeply impressed how Porsche succeeds in squeezing the last bit of performance out of the 911, same goes to Lamborghini with the Aventador, which not only is pretty slow straight-line (SVJ vs. 720S for example) but also has the crappiest gearbox in this segment. The GT2 RS and the SVJ may not be the fastest on the drag strip but they certainly make an impact on the track, even with much higher weight figures. 

    I'm afraid however that slowly but steadily, McLaren will close the track performance gap as well.

    It will be interesting to see how McLaren is going to handle the mild hybrid/electrification issues ahead. Unfortunately I think that the new tech will break McLaren's (financial) neck, so sooner or later, they are going to have to cooperate with a bigger manufacturer or will be bought by someone. I may be wrong but... Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    SciFrog:
    Whoopsy:
    GT3ZZZ:

    750LT will be the one to have, then some mods on top of the lighter body... 

     

    Nah, it’s the that’s coming after the current one is the one to have.

    With McLaren, there is never a right time to buy, every choice will be a wrong one as a better one is always around the corner.

    Why hold back the new tech and improvements when they are ready? I actually like that McLaren releases cars when ready and not wait on some stupid 4+3=7 years upgrade cycle. Why would the 2019 model of any car not be better than the 2018? Dinosaurs like Porsche will have to adapt to the faster and OTA updates, they have enjoyed slow refresh cycles to maximize profits, but now competition have caught up to them. Adding 20hp every 4 years? Good luck with that. Everything I read says the 720S is THE road car to own today bar none. Expecting this to be true more than a couple of year seems too simple.

    It is not that simple. You can read here (and in other forums) that high depreciation (due to model cycle) is one of the key factors why people don't buy a McLaren. Value retention (due to stable model cycles) is and will remain a key factor in deciding for a car.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    If people choose cars by value retention, then I don't get it. Sorry. Smiley

    I choose cars by the fun factor they provide and unfortunately, I usually pay the price for it. Not that I like it but I would never choose a specific model because I know it retains it's value. Unless I would want a collectible. 

    It should be interesting to see how the new 600LT is holding it's value because I believe that, once the 750 or 770LT shows up, some people will switch to this car and there are going to be some interesting 600LT on the market, at a much lower price. Not necessarily only from people who switch to the 750 or 770LT but also from people who may switch from the 600LT to the 720S, as weird as this may sound. A majority of the 600LT drivers care, I think, about straight line performance and the power feel, so they will not appreciate the better handling of the 600LT. At least I think so...


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Porsche has horrible depreciation except for the GT models, especially for turbo and turbo S models. Value retention has nothing to do with longer upgrade cycles, they have to do with “vanity” to own the latest greatest thing for longer and more importantly for Porsche higher profit margins Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:

    The 720S is a great sportscar and a monster but I wouldn't get one. It completely opposes why I am looking for in a sportscar but it is a very fine piece of automotive tech, no doubt. I wish Lamborghini would build the same lightweight cars McLaren does.

    Since I enjoy driving on country roads, pass roads and similar roads (the Autobahn is no fun anymore, it was fun when driving over 300 kph was a novelty but it wear off fast), I want a car I can push hard, even without passing the legal speed limit and exceeding certain "boundaries" on public roads. A 720S is not only complete overkill for that, it just isn't fun because you need to be extremely cautious.

    The lack of proper engine/exhaust sound (for me, others seem to enjoy it), the turbo lag (many say there isn't one but it is very very obvious, especially if you switch back to a n/a car) and the traction issues if the road isn't completely dry/clean or the tires aren't really warmed up yet, make the car no real fun if you want to push it hard.

    Autobahn? Track (with the proper warming up)? Very nice car and for the power/performance it delivers, a real bargain, no doubt.

    20 years ago...oh wait...10 years ago...I would have gone for the 720S without thinking twice. Now? Well, you know the rest of the story. In speed limited countries, the 720S is a car which makes no sense whatsoever anyway but I guess people get it for various reasons, including bragging rights. Right now, I would probably get the 600LT if I were interested in a McLaren, just the right amount of power in a very sporty package.

    I am very impressed with what McLaren is offering, especially considering how long ago they started making sports cars. I am also highly disappointed with Porsche and even Lamborghini because they lost the weight and hp war against McLaren and I don't have a clue why. On the other hand, I am deeply impressed how Porsche succeeds in squeezing the last bit of performance out of the 911, same goes to Lamborghini with the Aventador, which not only is pretty slow straight-line (SVJ vs. 720S for example) but also has the crappiest gearbox in this segment. The GT2 RS and the SVJ may not be the fastest on the drag strip but they certainly make an impact on the track, even with much higher weight figures. 

    I'm afraid however that slowly but steadily, McLaren will close the track performance gap as well.

    It will be interesting to see how McLaren is going to handle the mild hybrid/electrification issues ahead. Unfortunately I think that the new tech will break McLaren's (financial) neck, so sooner or later, they are going to have to cooperate with a bigger manufacturer or will be bought by someone. I may be wrong but... Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    I would love for McLaren to forego hybrid entirely and push their ethos of light weight all the way, all the while working on a pure EV. This would give them a major different tack vs Porsche and Ferrari whose case are about to get somewhat faster but much fatter by adding batteries and electric engines.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    SciFrog:

    Porsche has horrible depreciation except for the GT models, especially for turbo and turbo S models. Value retention has nothing to do with longer upgrade cycles, they have to do with “vanity” to own the latest greatest thing for longer and more importantly for Porsche higher profit margins Smiley

    This is "my" current problem with Porsche: Buying one is out of the question because of the depreciation. Leasing (a new) one is out of the question because new Porsche are always way too expensive when leasing. I was lucky with that 991.2 Carrera GTS Cab leasing because my dealer had too many cars and he urgently needed to get rid of them because of the pending 992 introduction. Doesn't happen often.

    I really admire McLaren for many things, they put a lot of pressure on Porsche and Lamborghini and Ferrari and actually everyone in the sportscar business. Kudos to them, without McLaren, I doubt we would have seen a GT2 RS with 700 hp. 

    McLaren is one of my favorite brands, even if I will (very likely) never own one.

    One exception though: If McLaren would offer me a Senna...just for fun and for free...I would take it instantly and drive the hell out of it. This is the only McLaren which fascinates me and I don't have a clue why because it doesn't sound even close to the Performante and it doesn't even look too good. Smiley It is however, from what I can tell, a proper driving machine and this really means a lot.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    SciFrog:

    Porsche has horrible depreciation except for the GT models, especially for turbo and turbo S models. Value retention has nothing to do with longer upgrade cycles, they have to do with “vanity” to own the latest greatest thing for longer and more importantly for Porsche higher profit margins Smiley

    I disagree. My turbo s convertible might have a depreciation of approx 40% after 4 years and approx 90k km. That is quite excellent, I feel. The 720s, 600lt etc etc have too small a buyer base still. Who will buy them after 4 years? Not sure.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    SciFrog:

    Porsche has horrible depreciation except for the GT models, especially for turbo and turbo S models. Value retention has nothing to do with longer upgrade cycles, they have to do with “vanity” to own the latest greatest thing for longer and more importantly for Porsche higher profit margins Smiley

    I disagree. My turbo s convertible might have a depreciation of approx 40% after 4 years and approx 90k km. That is quite excellent, I feel. The 720s, 600lt etc etc have too small a buyer base still. Who will buy them after 4 years? Not sure.

    True: Porsche non-GT models take a big hit at the beginning but afterwards, after the biggest depreciation, you can still sell them at a "proper" price figure. McLaren? Try to sell a 720S at 90k km...good luck. You can get 12Cs under 100k now, with less than 40k km.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
    MKSGR:
    SciFrog:

    Porsche has horrible depreciation except for the GT models, especially for turbo and turbo S models. Value retention has nothing to do with longer upgrade cycles, they have to do with “vanity” to own the latest greatest thing for longer and more importantly for Porsche higher profit margins Smiley

    I disagree. My turbo s convertible might have a depreciation of approx 40% after 4 years and approx 90k km. That is quite excellent, I feel. The 720s, 600lt etc etc have too small a buyer base still. Who will buy them after 4 years? Not sure.

    True: Porsche non-GT models take a big hit at the beginning but afterwards, after the biggest depreciation, you can still sell them at a "proper" price figure. McLaren? Try to sell a 720S at 90k km...good luck. You can get 12Cs under 100k now, with less than 40k km.

    Absolutely, and it is of no surprise. Recently saw an orange colored 650s on the street and immediately asked myself: who would buy this car today? It feels totally outdated. Compare this to a 991 of similar age. Plus the market for used Porsche is huge. All that makes a reasonable resale value.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    The 650S feels outdated? I don't know... yes 

    I am more worried about maintenance, spare parts availability and stuff like that.

    To give you an example (I think I wrote about it in an older post): I once replaced the windshield of my R8, it took my Audi dealership a day to get it from the warehouse. The Audi dealership is also the Lamborghini dealership and the parts guy there (who is not only responsible for Audi parts but also Lambo parts) told me that I am lucky I didn't damage the windshield of a Huracan because it was on backorder for six weeks or so. Ouch. 

    So I wonder what happens if the windshield of a 12C gets damaged and I need a new one: 24 hours? A week? A month? How long would it take? Are they faster (and better organized) than Lamborghini for example?

    To give you another example of an old and low production figure car: Someone had an accident in an old Diablo SV. There are apparently some spare parts missing, they aren't produced anymore. So far, so good, many spare parts can be re-manufactured, there are companies specialized on this kind of stuff. The problem is that the insurance refuses to pay for the (more expensive) manufacturing of these missing parts, they only want to pay what the parts usually cost if they were available. We are talking a 40k EUR difference in value here, so no peanuts. The owner of the Diablo SV cannot repair his car until the insurance agrees to some sort of...agreement. He hasn't used the car almost for a year now. mail This is no fun...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    So, based on Lambo parts issues you assume getting parts or a windshield for a Mac must be difficult or impossible. Interesting. I would actually worry more about buying a Lambo given your experience. 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Leawood911:

    So, based on Lambo parts issues you assume getting parts or a windshield for a Mac must be difficult or impossible. Interesting. I would actually worry more about buying a Lambo given your experience. 

    I am not worrying about Lamborghini because my dealer is expanding the dealership and his parts warehouse. Also, due to increased production at Lamborghini, many parts are easier to get now and there is always the (extreme) way of getting into my car, drive over to Sant'Agata Bolognese and get the parts myself there. Smiley It is a six hour drive from my home. Smiley

    Kidding aside: Don't worry about me, I always pick the "right" brand for me for various reasons. Smiley

    I am more worried about the Brexit and how fast McLaren is putting new models on the market. 

    Remember the first 12C (oops...MP4-12C)? It happened only 8 years ago... Then came the 650S, the 675LT and now the 720S. The 720S came out only six years after the first 12C. 

    For comparison: The Huracan came out in 2014 and the facelift, not a new model, was presented this year.

    More food for thought: The V10 engine in the Huracan has not only be used for the Huracan but also for the R8.

    McLaren engines are manufactured by Ricardo, not by McLaren. Now just imagine if there is a problem with this company, Brexit and all. 

    Long story short: McLaren owners should worry if they want to keep their car longer, especially when they buy it. At some point, you will need spare parts.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    You can extend the warranty to 12 years. 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    hunterone:

    You can extend the warranty to 12 years. 

    This is good to know. How much and is it also possible to extend the warranty for used cars? Thanks.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


     
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