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    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

     That would be very very bad news for us sportcar fans, everyday there is less and less competition in the sportcar industry and more "shared genes". I could no even imagine a german controlled Ferrari   Fortunatley I don't think the italians will ever allow it.


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    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    The "Germans" control Lamborghini completely, so why not Ferrari too ? 

    Have you forgotten: "we" planned to conquer the world...why not use cars for doing that ?    

    Seriously: I doubt that Italians would have any serious problem with that as long as Ferrari stays in Italy. You would be surprised how many Italians, who could afford a Ferrari, are actually buying Porsche instead. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    What is the current financial situation of the FIAT Group?


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    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    RC:

    The "Germans" control Lamborghini completely, so why not Ferrari too ? 

    Have you forgot: "we" planned to conquer the world...why not use cars for doing that ?    

    Seriously: I doubt that Italians would have any serious problem with that as long as Ferrari stays in Italy. You would be surprised how many Italians, who could afford a Ferrari, are actually buying Porsche instead. 

     

    Ferrari is different than Lambo, Ferrari ouzes italian ideosyncacy through its pores, its what makes Ferrari so different and passional, and that could be killed if german mentaility start making the big decistions. Don't get me wrong, I preffer the german way about building sportcars myself, but it would be a pity to loose the italian, and the healthy competition and diversity it brings.


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    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    easy_rider911:

    What is the current financial situation of the FIAT Group?

    I think is "quite good" but Lancia and Alfa Romeo (cars and brand) are DEAD

    I don't know how is the situation whit Chrysler group. I know that the next generation of Chrysler 300c will be the basis for the next big Lancia.

     

    Smiley


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    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    I loved Lancia. I also liked Alfa Romeo a lot. It is a shame what has become of both.

    25 years ago, italian cars were icons in their classes. Does somebody remember the Fiat Uno ? Or the Fiat Ritmo ? In Germany, it was absolutely "in" to drive a Fiat Uno instead of a VW Polo/Golf. Italian cars had a huge market share over here in Germany.

    Now ? Ridiculous. A real shame.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    Carlos from Spain:

     That would be very very bad news for us sportcar fans, everyday there is less and less competition in the sportcar industry and more "shared genes". I could no even imagine a german controlled Ferrari   Fortunatley I don't think the italians will ever allow it.


    If that would improve the build quality of the F-cars, I would appreciate it. Smiley

    But then, Audi/VW is in control of Lamborghini and this hasn't changed a lot when it comes to workmanship... Smiley
     


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    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    RC:

    I loved Lancia. I also liked Alfa Romeo a lot. It is a shame what has become of both.

    25 years ago, italian cars were icons in their classes. Does somebody remember the Fiat Uno ? Or the Fiat Ritmo ? In Germany, it was absolutely "in" to drive a Fiat Uno instead of a VW Polo/Golf. Italian cars had a huge market share over here in Germany.

    Now ? Ridiculous. A real shame.

     

    Really? wrote an e-mail to MarchionneSmileySmiley


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    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    Carlos from Spain:

    Ferrari is different than Lambo, Ferrari ouzes italian ideosyncacy through its pores, its what makes Ferrari so different and passional, and that could be killed if german mentaility start making the big decistions. Don't get me wrong, I preffer the german way about building sportcars myself, but it would be a pity to loose the italian, and the healthy competition and diversity it brings.


    Piech knows all to well about Ferrari´s character and its iconic status. In fact, it was stated in a recent FAZ interview that he has a 355, 430 Scuderia and 458 in the garage.


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    Rossi:

    But then, Audi/VW is in control of Lamborghini and this hasn't changed a lot when it comes to workmanship... Smiley
     

     

    Apparently you haven owned a Lamborghini from the pre-Audi ownership era. Smiley

    Quality has improved a lot but to make Lamborghini almost flawless, they would need to move the whole production to Germany. Smiley Smiley

    You know the old saying about the italian car manufacturing worker: if he didn't sleep well, if his mama didn't make him his favorite Spaghetti and if he had an argument with his wife, it will show in his work the next day.  I know, I know, a lot of prejudice in this but there is always some truth in prejudice. Some. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake


     

    You know the old saying about the italian car manufacturing worker: if he didn't sleep well, if his mama didn't make him his favorite Spaghetti and if he had an argument with his wife, it will show in his work the next day.  I know, I know, a lot of prejudice in this but there is always some truth in prejudice. Some. Smiley

    For me the problem is that the people don't like their job they do it without "love" .

    Just look at the build quality of a "Italian Fiat" and "middle East Fiat".

    IMHOSmiley

     

    PS that's a lot of time that i don't eat spaghettiSmiley


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    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    Ferrari and Lamborghini under the same parent company would be very wrong imho

    Also,why are italian car companies retarded lately?

    Bring us back Alfa Romeo pretty please,with a handfull of cherries on top:)

    Real one I mean,RWD,double wishbones all-around,with high revving V6 made in Italy and available in dark red pastel colour,dont rebody some American rubbish

    Dress it up and sell it as baby-Quattroporte with V8

    Next proper Quattroporte BEGS for a 599 V12 and double  clutch box,competion has gotten tough

    Make a RWD Boxster/Cayman rival 2seater as both Alfa and Maserati,with appropriate price difference,call it 350F(reference to 250F)(it can be 2.5 3.0 for Alfa,3.0 3.5 for Maserati)

    Make a better big coupe/convertible(please go stare at the original Ghibli for as long as it takes) with big bore self-developed-not-Ferrari-borroved V8,call it 500S(reference to 450S)and give it symbolic rear seats like 911 has(use lets say 4.0 version engine for top alfas and baby QP)

    They just need to look at their respective history and see what once made them great-buyers would come

    Also i think BMW has left a gap on the market for proper sport sedans,they've become too luxurious for my taste

    Then ,IMHO,buyers would come

    I know its easy to type some words and would be very hard to restructure Alfa and Maserati(i think they could coexist nicely)

    But seems to me its like Lotus-reinvent totally or die a slow and paifull death


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    Ferdie:

    Piech knows all to well about Ferrari´s character and its iconic status. In fact, it was stated in a recent FAZ interview that he has a 355, 430 Scuderia and 458 in the garage.

     I'm sure, as a sportcar fan and owner he knows Ferrari cars, and even appreciates them, but his idea on how they should be made it different. A Toledo swordmaker may appreciate the Katana but his innate way of making swords is still not the same as the japanese swordsmaster and his version of the Katana would just not be the same. I really don't think that many desitions Ferrari makes that contributes to their uniqueness and mith would be posible under VAG controlSmiley


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    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    RC:

    Apparently you haven owned a Lamborghini from the pre-Audi ownership era. Smiley

    Quality has improved a lot but to make Lamborghini almost flawless, they would need to move the whole production to Germany. Smiley Smiley


    Quality may have improved, but it's still far off for what these cars cost. Smiley


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    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    Ferrari would rather sell to the Chinese before they we let the Germans take over. Also, keep in mind Abu Dhabi is always ready to increase their share 
     


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    RC: You would be surprised how many Italians, who could afford a Ferrari, are actually buying Porsche instead. 


     

    me first! Smiley


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    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    Rossi:
    Carlos from Spain:

     That would be very very bad news for us sportcar fans, everyday there is less and less competition in the sportcar industry and more "shared genes". I could no even imagine a german controlled Ferrari   Fortunatley I don't think the italians will ever allow it.


    If that would improve the build quality of the F-cars, I would appreciate it. Smiley

    But then, Audi/VW is in control of Lamborghini and this hasn't changed a lot when it comes to workmanship... Smiley
     

    I hear that late model Gallardo's are quite reliable. I remember from the factory tour that a lot of the parts on the car actually have Audi labels. The Murcie's are (were) all still hand made in Sant'Agata.

    If Ferrari were partially owned by Porsche maybe we would get 14 different versions of each car.Smiley

     


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    Photo_061805_001.jpgThis is one that I will have to think about, my first impression is like many here that they influence too many cars already.  However, I think Piech is one of the greatest car man of our day.  Look where he took Porsche, then Audi, then VW, Lambo, Bentley and Bugatti.  If he could go to Italy and just change a few things that would make the Ferrari better and still let it have its Italian roots, I think this might be incredible.  I was with Champion Audi in the pits at LeMans back in 2005 when they won the event and it was a lot of fun celebrating, but just before the end of the race walks in DSC_0032.JPGPiech with the head of Audi Racing and the higher ups from Audi.  It was a fun event that I will remember the rest of my life.


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    Piech has fuel in his blood and it shows. I know that many people oppose him but personally I think that he is very good for Porsche (and other VW group manufacturers).

    I remember that he picked up his Carrera GT personally at Leipzig factory and drove it home to Austria with his wife. No chauffeur, no delivery service or whatever, very impressive for a CEO.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    You are not alone, I personally think that Piech is a good thing for Porsche as well.


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    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    I also agree that he is great for Porsche. But he wont be for Ferrari.

    Di Montezemolo is the best thing that happened to Ferrari after Enzo Ferrari himself. Although personally, the guy gets on my nerve and i can't stand listening to him talking. That's ok cause most presidents/CEOs are annoying.


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    I amire Montezemolo's bussines skills,he made Ferraris appeal to a much much bigger group of people

    But I personally prefer older cars like 355-leather,radio and aircon are only luxuries you need in a Ferrari,ABS you can switch off,plus cars werent huge like the modern ones(my theory is car companies dont want to loose 2meter/7feet rich buyes so they make cars big,like 599.I could be wrong though)


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    Current Ferraris are a million times better than the old ones. The 458 annihilates the 355 in every conceivable way. Track day specials (F40, F50, Enzo, the next Enzo, Scuderia etc) remain pure and don't even have radios! Ferrari is going from strenght to strenght. I don't get this love of the "good old days". It seems us humans, like to dwell on the past, while we tend to forget the shortcomings of those days.


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    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    REALZEUS:

    Current Ferraris are a million times better than the old ones. The 458 annihilates the 355 in every conceivable way. Track day specials (F40, F50, Enzo, the next Enzo, Scuderia etc) remain pure and don't even have radios! Ferrari is going from strenght to strenght. I don't get this love of the "good old days". It seems us humans, like to dwell on the past, while we tend to forget the shortcomings of those days.

     

    Well said SmileySmiley

    Human nature tries to resist any kind of change even if it's better for us.

    You know, i've got a bunch of friends that can't accept new things at all!! They keep going on and on how they can't stand the new look of anything and how the older is way better.

    Once the newer model comes out, suddenly they start liking the same thing they were hating for a while Smiley
     


     


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    I realize and agree new cars are much much better,what i meant was i prefered when you actually had to be a bit hardcore to drive one,i you wanted to be a poseur in luxury you had to look elsewhere

     

     


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    Well said REALZEUS, i tend to agree because i have found myself going down this road quite a bit haha. It's always easier to say things were better back in the day simply because they were more simplistic. Modern cars have many benefits.

    I think Piech is great for Porsche too


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    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    Fiat Buys Back Ferrari Stake From Abu Dhabi Company:

    Fiat has bought back a five percent stake in Ferrari that was sold five years ago to Abu Dhabi investment company Mubadala. It is believed the move ties in with recent rumors the Italian carmaker is considering later selling a significant part of its majority stake in the famous Maranello based marque and Formula One team. The buy-back of the Mubadala stake, costing Fiat EUR 122 million according to the UAE newspaper The National, takes Fiat's shareholding up to 90 percent. It is believed Fiat is then prepared to see this figure drop to as low as a controlling 51 percent. "I can confirm that Fiat has exercised the call option for the purchase of the Ferrari stake held by Mubadala," confirmed a Fiat spokesman. "We have no further comment to make," he added.


    Re: VW's Piech may be eyeing Ferrari stake

    I don't think the VW Group need Ferrari. They've got the spectrum from sportscar to supercar and hypercar very well covered with Porsche-Lamborghini-Bugatti. Bentley could potentially used to fend off any further competition in the luxury GT/Sports class.

    BTW people I know who have big experience of Ferrari and Lamborghini emphatically say that Sant'Agata makes the better quality car. Of course it cannot touch Ferrari for racing pedigree and star quality. What Lamborghini needs is some wins in ALMS or LMS at least to gain credibility. 


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