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    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:

    Your above post is what I mean. Can't you see you are the defensive one? Fanatically so? We talk about other cars all day long, sometimes we say good things about a car, sometimes bad, doesn't matter the brand, nobody has a problem with that, but as soon as someone says anything about Tesla, then... well, you know what you do. Just look how other Tesla owners here talk and discuss about Tesla with other members, and then compare with yourself. Its just a car buddy.

     

    You hardly ever see me posting all the positive press and reviews.  In this instance I called BS on a three year old article which cherry picked a stat. Nothing you accuse me of alters that.   How many times do I need to tell you there are plenty of things about the car I don’t like but if you would prefer that don’t post when I see something I think is odd I can do that. Have fun 


    Re: Tesla

    Topspeed:

    Beta Testers AKA costumers doing the dirty work(testing the new heat pump) as usual smiley

     

    Well...my 2.5 ton family truck does actually better the less fuel there is in the tank. Smiley

    This is recently, with almost full tank, no launch control, winter tires, slightly humid road. Smiley

    test.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    That seems like a really strange test for the Tesla. With a freshly charged to 90% and also very warm battery, to then run 0-60 followed by some other activity to burn off 10% of the power which also kept the battery pretty warm and then run 0-60 again and repeat.

    I wonder if the engineers dedicated way too much power to the heat pump to cool the battery because they think that he drives like an a$$hole. angry  (triggered some special sub-routine in the software)  would also explain taking the battery down to 8.5 centigrade (47.3 Fahrenheit) yes

    looking forward to -26c this weekend, at least then it is only -15 fahrenheit

     


    Re: Tesla

    Tesla argues that MCUs are wearable items, and shouldn’t be subject to a recall. These control autopilot and turn signals, etc..


    https://insideevs.com/news/485717/tesla-vp-tells-nhtsa-mcus-wear-parts/

     


    Re: Tesla

    JoeRockhead:

    Tesla argues that MCUs are wearable items, and shouldn’t be subject to a recall. These control autopilot and turn signals, etc..


    https://insideevs.com/news/485717/tesla-vp-tells-nhtsa-mcus-wear-parts/

     

    At the risk of being called names - I suspect all the other car makers would agree technically speaking and are facing the same issues. Consider that all cars these days have electronics and computers which, when they wear out - which they all will sometime - are not covered by warranty. In fact many cars will be totaled at some point when ancient computers and electronics parts are no longer sold.  Computer users have been dealing this for decades. 
     

    The big question is - when they are the only supplier for the replacement part will it be upgraded and reasonable in price?  My bet is that the companies who understand public relations and customer service will not take advantage of pricing. 


    Re: Tesla

    Gladstone:

    That seems like a really strange test for the Tesla. With a freshly charged to 90% and also very warm battery, to then run 0-60 followed by some other activity to burn off 10% of the power which also kept the battery pretty warm and then run 0-60 again and repeat.

    I wonder if the engineers dedicated way too much power to the heat pump to cool the battery because they think that he drives like an a$$hole. angry  (triggered some special sub-routine in the software)  would also explain taking the battery down to 8.5 centigrade (47.3 Fahrenheit) yes

    looking forward to -26c this weekend, at least then it is only -15 fahrenheit

     

    I saw this and I’m glad I don’t have the new heat pump. My performance never drops unless the battery 🔋 s below 20%.  Been having fun in the freezing food and icy streets. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    JoeRockhead:

    Tesla argues that MCUs are wearable items, and shouldn’t be subject to a recall. These control autopilot and turn signals, etc..


    https://insideevs.com/news/485717/tesla-vp-tells-nhtsa-mcus-wear-parts/

     

    At the risk of being called names - I suspect all the other car makers would agree technically speaking and are facing the same issues. Consider that all cars these days have electronics and computers which, when they wear out - which they all will sometime - are not covered by warranty. In fact many cars will be totaled at some point when ancient computers and electronics parts are no longer sold.  Computer users have been dealing this for decades. 
     

    The big question is - when they are the only supplier for the replacement part will it be upgraded and reasonable in price?  My bet is that the companies who understand public relations and customer service will not take advantage of pricing. 

    Several years ago, Ford discontinued production of replacement PCM or powertrain control modules for their highly popular F-150 pickup truck after a handful of years.  Most manufacturers ensure that parts are in production or inventory for fifteen to twenty years, so the market did not respond too kindly to Ford's decision, which it later reversed.  

    The Tesla issue is more endemic of a more broad issue within Tesla, it knowingly produced product it knew would require a costly replacement on all of its installed base within a relatively short period of ownership.  Ford addressed its problem but with Tesla it took a federally forced recall for the company to even acknowledge the issue.


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:
    Leawood911:
    JoeRockhead:

    Tesla argues that MCUs are wearable items, and shouldn’t be subject to a recall. These control autopilot and turn signals, etc..


    https://insideevs.com/news/485717/tesla-vp-tells-nhtsa-mcus-wear-parts/

     

    At the risk of being called names - I suspect all the other car makers would agree technically speaking and are facing the same issues. Consider that all cars these days have electronics and computers which, when they wear out - which they all will sometime - are not covered by warranty. In fact many cars will be totaled at some point when ancient computers and electronics parts are no longer sold.  Computer users have been dealing this for decades. 
     

    The big question is - when they are the only supplier for the replacement part will it be upgraded and reasonable in price?  My bet is that the companies who understand public relations and customer service will not take advantage of pricing. 

    Several years ago, Ford discontinued production of replacement PCM or powertrain control modules for their highly popular F-150 pickup truck after a handful of years.  Most manufacturers ensure that parts are in production or inventory for fifteen to twenty years, so the market did not respond too kindly to Ford's decision, which it later reversed.  

    The Tesla issue is more endemic of a more broad issue within Tesla, it knowingly produced product it knew would require a costly replacement on all of its installed base within a relatively short period of ownership.  Ford addressed its problem but with Tesla it took a federally forced recall for the company to even acknowledge the issue.

    Of course. tesla is evil. I agree.  Lol. You do a lot of mind reading.  How would you know if Tesla did not acknowledge the situation until the Feds pointed it out? I knew about it years ago. Hmmm. Don’t you think the owners had pointed it out first to Tesla?  Maybe you are talking about them taking their time to evaluate the legal necessity. I can see how a company in their position understands the importance of these types of issues. I’m certain you can as well.   Your observation is a bit of a stretch but i get it though there are two sides and nothing they did was illegal. At risk was their customer goodwill which they have a bit of to spend. 
    So are you saying there are no other computers being used in cars?  Or they are all warrantied forever and will not fail. I’m more interested in the future and how claims like this will be handled. There is a fine line between protecting the consumer and keeping a product affordable. Nothing is expected to be warrantied forever.  Or should it be?  Not to be confused with keeping repair parts handy and affordable.  Lots of totaled cars out there due to cost of repair parts. Smiley 


    Re: Tesla

    Once again, you are acting disingenuously.  NHTSA released the Tesla Model S/X case file which was posted here last week.  Tesla lays out its arguments as stated in my post above. 


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Once again, you are acting disingenuously.  NHTSA released the Tesla Model S/X case file which was posted here last week.  Tesla lays out its arguments as stated in my post above. 

    No, what I’m saying is that it is truly old news.  I get that it is important for you to emphasize how Tesla is cheating and endangering everyone.  That’s nice.  Find me an automaker with higher customer satisfaction. 

     I am far more interested in the increasing complexity of cars and how all these electronics are contributing to not just making repairs expensive but also unlikely and impossible in just a few years from new.  The legal issues/problems as cars become self driving and these electronics fail is also fascinating to me. 

    Back to the case for a second - do you think automakers are interested in these types of outcomes?  Do you think they were rooting for Tesla in this case - My guess is they were very interested and perhaps happy Tesla brought the arguments to the table.  
     

    Was anything I said wrong?  I’m actually just asking questions and wondering out loud about the consequences of this new tech to us car owners. Can you get past your dislike of Tesla for a sec and discuss something?

     


    Re: Tesla


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    This is hilarious. He clearly does not own an EV. Even though I drive many many miles I hardly ever ever charge anywhere but at home. His whole premise and yours is that no one can charge at home. I can’t think of anything in that video which is accurate. He even claims a 250 kw is charger is no faster than 150 kw. His argument is that batteries charge at different rates depending on charge. Fine but at 250 it is still quicker at some charge levels. 
    Anyway, given that the actual use case is that people charge 99.9% of the time at home and get to avoid gas stations his points are lost in reality. Totally.  His whole point is built around everyone needing fast charging for every mile near their home. He does not get it all.  The exact opposite is true. You fuel at your home when not using your car at 10% the cost. I love how he mentions Kansas. My favorite drive it to Denver.   
     Don’t want to be accused of being a Tesla fan boy based on refuting some idiot misperception of how EVs are actually charged and used by 99 of all owner. But go ahead and join him and his silly notions. 
    It will be decades before enough batteries and EVs are made for people who can’t charge at home so we can worry about then.  This is not the problem he has identified. He is chasing windmills or in this case thinks we all need $50k home chargers. Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Topspeed:

    Beta Testers AKA costumers doing the dirty work(testing the new heat pump) as usual smiley

     

    2021 Model 3 LR - LG battery (-7ºC ambient temp)
    2021 Model 3 Performance - Panasonic battery (-19ºC ambient temp)

     

    In Bjorn's opinion, ambient temp didn't make much of a difference.

    LR is 8k cheaper and better performance at 40% SoC, it seems Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Or the preheat pump model 3. It seems the heat pump is the particulate filter of the EV.  I suspect the long range cheaper model may not have the heat pump either in an effort to use up the old parts. 


    Re: Tesla

    Elon’s First Principles shows its profound effects as this Model 3 sheds its window on the highway.  https://insideevs.com/news/488511/tesla-model-3-window-falls-freeway/  Can’t wait to be told that this is another example of manufacturing genius. 


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Elon’s First Principles shows its profound effects as this Model 3 sheds its window on the highway.  https://insideevs.com/news/488511/tesla-model-3-window-falls-freeway/  Can’t wait to be told that this is another example of manufacturing genius. 

    It is a genius test of their new convertible top. That is just the most amazing thing. It even works at high speeds.  And covered under warranty.  They are just warming up for the ejection seat. 
    I’m very certain all the other car makers are going to copy this feature like they have all the other engineering advances from the geniuses at Tesla with their brilliant alien leader at the helm. 


    Re: Tesla

    Bumpers falling, roofs flying off, windows shattering heart

    Now imagine driving a Model S Plaid at 300Km/h...or a Roadster 2.0 at the claimed 400Km/h.

    Well, even at 200Km/h would be scary.

     

    Kia Sorrento must have been using Tesla Auto Pilot. That was a nifty maneuver.

    smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Topspeed:

    Bumpers falling, roofs flying off, windows shattering heart

    Now imagine driving a Model S Plaid at 300Km/h...or a Roadster 2.0 at the claimed 400Km/h.

    Well, even at 200Km/h would be scary.

     

    Kia Sorrento must have been using Tesla Auto Pilot. That was a nifty maneuver.

    smiley

    You are planning to drive through deep water at 200 kmh?  Of course all automakers plan for that one.  The Verge Smiley  Since the verge mentions consumer reports I wonder if they saw that Tesla took the top spot as most satisfying car.  That was the model3.  The S and Y were third and fourth with the X in 10th place.  32 brands, all types of cars.  Might want to avoid linking that story here.  Who cares what actual owners think.  It’s your important links to these disasters which clearly shape opinion.

    slow news day?  There has to be more.  
    I suggest you also forward these important news stories to the VW board. They will Love you for it. 
     


    Re: Tesla

     


    Re: Tesla

    Interesting system. You can only get it in the more expensive versions but f the Slade then it costs extra.  
    Autopilot is included in every Tesla at no cost. 
    no mention of the tech or software behind it.  Just that you don’t need to keep you hands on the wheel in exchange for some camera recording you. Hmmm. Safety is traded for lawsuit protection.  
    The kicker is it only works on major maple highways. Would not work at all on my way to the lake or in cities. 
    Lots of facts wrong too. Tesla autopilot does not change lanes on its own even if you signal.  But for less than the upcharges to get super cruise you can likely buy full self driving. 
    For me this was a very unconvincing video. Full disclosure- I’m a tesla owner and apparently a fanboy. So buy the super cruise because I don’t think it is better. But seriously - would it work with my cool mirror sunglasses?  



    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Impressive effort from Hyundai with its new Ioniq 5 EV crossover. https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39403/the-hyundai-ioniq-5-is-a-revolutionary-ev-with-up-to-300-hp-and-a-smart-interior

    It looks nice, more like a future Audi or Seat model than Hyundai but who cares?! Smiley

    Not so impressed by the technical data though. 5 minutes charging for a range of 62 miles? Under what conditions? Also 10 to 80% in 18 minutes sounds great but we all know that once you hook up one of these babies to the charger, you usually want to charge from 10-20% to 95 or 100%, not from 10 to 80%.

    I still fail to see any innovation here, maybe some interesting features, nothing more and nothing less.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    Hyundai is a dynamic and impressive company. They came from the bottom, making cheap ugly cars to becoming now soon one of the big player. Watch them in the coming years. I would put my money on them. 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Tesla

    I agree. Every year their products get more refined. I suspect them to be an important player in the future.


    Re: Tesla

    rhino:

    I agree. Every year their products get more refined. I suspect them to be an important player in the future.

    Cant count how many I have owned for myself and kids. Never had a problem with them.  I switched from Honda for my DD or kids cars long ago. 


    Re: Tesla

    rhino:

    I agree. Every year their products get more refined. I suspect them to be an important player in the future.

    Reminds me of Goldstar (now LG) in the past: Cheap TVs, made mostly for East European markets and other "cheap" markets and now LG makes top of the line TVs.

    Or Samsung and how they caught up to the competition, especially Nokia, Sony Ericsson and HTC in the beginning. Does someone remember these companies anymore? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Tesla

    Not dangerous at all...mail

    The incoming cars are participating involuntary in this beta test...

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Topspeed:

    Not dangerous at all...mail

    The incoming cars are participating involuntary in this beta test...

     

     

    YouTube reporter for Rennteam.  Awesome. 
    Do consider that when we all get behind the wheel we are involuntary participants as idiots around us drive like, well , idiots.  In terms of idiot drivers out there I rank a Tesla as a 2 out of 10.  Average being 5.

    I don’t have full self driving and doubt I would use it much but on the other hand my car just drove me 95% of the way to the lake - 150 miles. With the free and included with each and every Tesla - autopilot.  So the timing for this post could not be better. 
    While I also hate cruise control and never use it the Tesla autopilot on the highway is so good it would be foolish, make that ignorant, to not use it. It would be like crisscrossing a tightrope each day and opting out of the net below.  It is hard to explain nor do I care to change anyone’s mind but if you spend time - weeks maybe - with a Tesla you would tend agree with my simple observation. 
    That said, if have not viewed this clip but I have seen many which are pretty impressive. Making left turns at busy intersections. Etc. Like it or not. It is not perfect but they are making impressive progress. Especially compared to geo fenced solutions which depend on GPS. Which is nuts. 

    Anyway - here is my expected response. Been a while. Enjoy 😊 


    Re: Tesla

    Springtime at the lake !

    Watched the video and was impressed by the boring consistency of the first two or three left turns across three lanes of traffic. That just strikes me as an excellent time to turn off auto pilot. The next couple of times just seemed to confirm that this may not be autopilots best usage.

    Scary reminder that there are novice drivers on the road every day who are just beginning to learn how to drive a car. We are all beta testing their skill level.


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:


    That said, if have not viewed this clip but I have seen many which are pretty impressive. Making left turns at busy intersections. Etc. Like it or not. It is not perfect but they are making impressive progress. Especially compared to geo fenced solutions which depend on GPS. Which is nuts. 

    Anyway - here is my expected response. Been a while. Enjoy 😊

    Well, next time you drive by a junction/intersection and there is a Tesla with the left blinker on, be aware. It may put your life at risk if the driver isn't paying attention. Smiley

    1:10 Failed attempt #1. Driver had to use the brakes to stop the Autopilot.

    2:10 Failed attempt #2. Driver had to use the brakes to stop the Autopilot.

    3:00 Successful attempt #1.

    3:55 Failed attempt #3. Driver had to use the brakes to stop the Autopilot.

    4:55 Failed attempt #4. Driver had to use the brakes to stop the Autopilot.

    5:40 Successful attempt #2.

    6:50 Successful attempt #3.

    7:15 Car is stuck. System confused.

    7:40 Successful attempt #4.

    8:25 Failed attempt #5. Driver had to use the brakes to stop the Autopilot.

    So, in this clip the Autopilot failed 5 of the 9 attempts. Smiley

     


     
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