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    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Quote:
    omeko3 said:
    faster shifts, more sporty, can skip gears.



    You are deluding yourself. There is no way you can shift gears as fast as DSG does.


    bugati veyron shifts in 150ms
    bmw m5 65ms
    bmw m3 80ms
    The veyron has a DSG and from what I know 150ms is slower than 65 and 80.

    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    Quote:
    omeko3 said:
    but if dsg is so great how come race cars do not use it. SMG is what they use. is it because the dsg cannot handel the torque?



    The 997GT3 Cup Car uses PDK, the Porsche DSG.

    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    Quote:
    omeko3 said:
    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Quote:
    omeko3 said:
    faster shifts, more sporty, can skip gears.



    You are deluding yourself. There is no way you can shift gears as fast as DSG does.


    bugati veyron shifts in 150ms
    bmw m5 65ms
    bmw m3 80ms
    The veyron has a DSG and from what I know 150ms is slower than 65 and 80.




    VW / Audi's technical description of DSG, from which you will note that the shift speed is 3 to 4 hundredths of a second. Or 30 - 40 milliseconds. Twice as fast as the fastest SMG change speed you quote above. And it's much, much smoother, particularly at full chat.

    "Transmission: DSG (Direct Shift Gearbox)

    DSG is a manual gearbox in which the gearshifts are controlled electronically. What makes the DSG unique is that it has 2 separate gear sets operated by 2 wet multi-plate clutches (1st, 3rd, 5th on one gear set, plus 2nd, 4th, 6th on the other).

    The benefit of 2 gear sets and 2 multi-plate wet clutches is that one gear set and clutch is engaged driving the vehicle with the second clutch having already pre-selected the next gear awaiting for power to be transferred.

    As the next gear has already been preselected prior to power being applied, the gear change only takes 3 to 4 hundredths of a second. There is virtually no interruption to power, traction or acceleration".

    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    None of these answer the question of why bugatti states it takes 150ms to shift while audi/vw state 8ms? essentially they are the same transmission just made by a parent company. also how much more weight is dsg vs.convential manual

    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    I've driven a handful of DSG's.

    It doesn't do anything for me, it takes the satisfaction of coordination and smoothness aspect out of driving, and replaces it with a golly-gee-whiz sense of novelty

    But everyone has their own likes and dislikes.

    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    Quote:
    omeko3 said:
    None of these answer the question of why bugatti states it takes 150ms to shift while audi/vw state 8ms? essentially they are the same transmission just made by a parent company. also how much more weight is dsg vs.convential manual



    Whre did you get the 150 ms shift time for the Bugatti? From the bugatti web page: "The double clutch system permits switching times of maximally 0.2 sec."

    /fantasma

    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    150 ms = 0.150 sec = less than 0.2 sec.

    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    The one thing I'd like to know is is will the PDK use paddles BEHIND the steering wheel(the proper place for them) like the DSG Audi uses, or will it be buttons for the thumbs ala Tipronic which I'd absolutely HATE.

    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    Quote:
    MHakkinen said:
    The one thing I'd like to know is is will the PDK use paddles BEHIND the steering wheel(the proper place for them) like the DSG Audi uses, or will it be buttons for the thumbs ala Tipronic which I'd absolutely HATE.



    They'll probably go for the paddles - novelty factor and all.

    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    do you guys think that they would still have the autotranny type of gearbox like VW/Audi? or you think porsche would eliminate and just have the paddles on the steering wheels like ferrari? I hope they eliminate 'cause i don't really see the purpose of it.

    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    I would think they would, unfortunately, have the auto tranny, because PDK is replacing tip.

    Drove A New VW GTI DSG Last Weekend

    I have to say the transmission is incredibly fast. Far faster than a human being could shift. Yes you can shift it manually and jump around to other gears by hitting the paddles multiple times.

    I assume Porsche is going to "borrow" the technology from VW.

    Re: Drove A New VW GTI DSG Last Weekend

    paddles! no buttons!! even SL55 AMG went from button to paddles!

    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    Quote:
    Scotty A said:
    150 ms = 0.150 sec = less than 0.2 sec.



    I understand that 150 ms is less than 0.2 sec. That was not my point. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.
    My two points where:
    1) What is the source of the 150 ms figure?
    2) On their website Bugatti states the maximum shift time (0.2 sec), which is not the same as the typical shift time assuming that the DSG box shifts to the pre-selected gear. That would explain how Bugatti's and Audi's figures differ so much which was the asnwer to omeko3's question.

    /fantasma

    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    Quote:
    linkrain said:
    do you guys think that they would still have the autotranny type of gearbox like VW/Audi? or you think porsche would eliminate and just have the paddles on the steering wheels like ferrari? I hope they eliminate 'cause i don't really see the purpose of it.



    Considering Porsche, I think they would.not eliminate tip s. In fact, I think they would offer both to CASH IN making it like a case of PCCB. They would do manual then a small price for tip s but a big premium for the HANDLE DSG TOY. Frankly speaking, in Hong Kong, I'd say 96%-97% of all Porsches from boxsters to carreras to TURBOs are tip s. This could be because of the traffic condition and the lack of roads to really make the manual meaningful. Furthermore, it could also be because it is second hand market driven as "good luck with selling your manual" type of deal. A manuel for sure depreciates a lot more.

    However, since Porsches are becoming more and more easy to drive (plenty of housewives actually now drive 996 turbos or 996/997s hence the car is more gender neutral than male dominant like back in the 70s). Frankly to any housewives, a tip s and a DSG they probably can't tell as they drive it just like a daily auto anyway so it is to PAG's advantage to simply cater to those who care more about brand and looks than DSG performance. This also justifies them to price the DSG at a much bigger premium as they would say well the tiptronic s is good enough for a small price if you don't like manual. However, I suspect that it would offer the DSG at a small premiumn like 3000 USD just like the tip s cos of all the research.

    But this is all my guess.

    Re: Porsche to intro New DSG - 7 speed gearbox

    i think some of you guys might hv missed the point...
    7 gears allows better acceleration (smaller gaps btw each gear) as well as better fuel economy.

     
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