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    Re: IAA today

    I'll see at least one 996/986 and one 997/997 every day, usually more, on a 30 mile round commute.  981 Boxsters are occasional sights but 991 and 981 Cayman are non-existent.  Where I live west of London, there are 5 OPCs within a 50 mile radius so new Porsche are not usually rare sights.  And the recession can't be blamed because Gen II 997/987 are quite prevalent.  If sales are holding up, why aren't the new owners enjoying them?  Very odd


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    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: IAA today

    RC:

    I would like to comment on the Chris Harris video from the IAA: Does somebody else get the feeling that he isn't too fond of Porsche anymore? I get the feeling that his relationship to Porsche has kind of taken a different path, a dip since he testdrove the GT3 and then the 918. Also he mentions that he is going to drive a 991 Turbo S in a couple of weeks but I actually expected a 991 Turbo S video from him much earlier (look at UK based Autocar or the many journalists who drove the 991 Turbo S at Bilster Berg). Weird. Or is it just me? yes

             Chris Harris is a petrol head, racer and a automotive intellectual. His recent GT3 test showed he has some doubts about just where Porsche is going. Maybe he drove the new Turbo S and was completely underwhelmed.Smiley  Not that it isn't super fast etc, but its so refined with so many digital "enablers" that the joy of actually driving may not have been there for him.


    Re: IAA today

    When was the last time Chris Harris (or any other car writer) bought a new car? Don't read too much into car journalism. They try to make a living too and they tend to create controversies. 

    I can understand objective quantitative tests like some German magazines do but to try to convey qualitative judgements is very subjective and a waste of time for the reader/viewer.

    Try a car and if you like it get it! We don't need others telling us what to like.


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: IAA today

    JimFlat6:
     

             Chris Harris is a petrol head, racer and a automotive intellectual. His recent GT3 test showed he has some doubts about just where Porsche is going. Maybe he drove the new Turbo S and was completely underwhelmed.Smiley  Not that it isn't super fast etc, but its so refined with so many digital "enablers" that the joy of actually driving may not have been there for him.

    This is a problem shared by many car manufacturers as a combination of technology advances in many areas, vast improvements in materials understanding/quality/use, safety legislation improvements, tyre performance and great leaps in NVH importance have combined to bring us cars that are much more rigid, better insulated, much quieter, and have far higher levels of mechanical grip. These all combine to make the driver feel less connected until you start to breach their limits through higher speeds. These attributes are great for an everyday car to carry you stress free through the grind of congestion but not so much pleasure for a weekend toy. Trying to cover both bases with one car is extremely difficult.

    There has been a greater focus on removing driver inputs to improve fuel and CO2 figures through the increased use of DCT style transmissions, electric steering and stop/start. There is also the downward creep of advanced technology that was once the preserve of high end luxury cars into everyday mundane hatchbacks - things like radar cruise control, lane change assist, brake assist, headlight assist that are even further removing driver input/responsibility.

    Enthusiasts say they don't want these features in any of their sports cars but if you read a lot of forums where buyers are purchasing their first expensive sports car, many of those buyers are critical of Porsche, Ferrari, Aston etc for not having all of these whizz bang gizmos that they have become accustomed to in their MB's, Audis, Lexus, BMW etc and also complain about the harsh ride or constant loud noise of the engine. It's therefore little wonder the marketing departments of Porsche and others are demanding that their engineers incorporate all of these systems as it is what the new generation of buyers expect. There are now nearly as many discussions on some forums about the media system in a car and it's connectivity to smart phones, the web etc as there are about aspects of it's performance, handling, engine, braking etc.

    It is a slow but steady creep towards the inevitable - cars that drive themselves. As traffic volume increases and driving standards generally decrease as a result of ageing populations coupled to a growing number of younger drivers more interested in social networking whilst driving than paying attention to the road that may be no bad thing on major routes Smiley

    All of the above is a major factor in the rise of popularity of older models amongst enthusiasts. Throw out the air con, heated seats, advanced cabin sound proofing, rigid modern bodyshells, wide profile tyres, engine management systems, all the acronyms - PTV, PASM, PDCC, PTM, ABS...., media unit, the list goes on.... and you are left with a car that you have to actually drive, one in which you are not insulated from the outside conditions because you can feel it's hot or cold, you feel the available grip through that most sensitive instrument - the seat of your pants Smiley, you feel cornering forces building as you have no power steering, you have to plan your approach to corners as you have no safety back up if you over cook the speed etc. It brings back the most important short, three letter addition to the spec sheet - FUN Smiley

     


    Re: IAA today

    Even with modern cars, you can have a lot of fun if you try to explore their boundaries. Unfortunately this isn't easy anymore since many modern cars have such a high limit that you can barely enjoy it on a public street. 

    Yes, indeed, many want a sports car but they also want all the comfort and gizmos offered on regular cars, no doubt about it. I just don't understand what is wrong about it? Not everyone can afford a second or third "fun" car, so it needs to satisfy all needs: Daily driver needs and fun needs. Not easy for sports car manufacturers.

    Chris Harris is a great car journalist, no doubt about it. He is fun to watch and to listen too, his reviews are special and his driving is sometimes short of spectacular BUT, he is a showman, not really a race car driver. He knows how to drive, no doubt but like you and me, he also knows that drifting slows down, so this is purely for show only. It looks good on video but I know 18 year kids who can do the same (well, maybe not THAT skillful) but this doesn't really mean much I'm afraid. Still...I love his videos and his comments, he always find the right words, even if they are sometimes critical. However I get the feeling that sometimes, he is a little bit confused and furthermore, I also think that since this seems to be his business, he kind of has or has not more interest to promote a certain brand...or not. Please don't misunderstand me but most car journalists I know personally (and I know quite a few in Germany) can barely afford a Boxster. Just saying...

    That said, I appreciate Chris Harris opinions but I do not always respect them. Please watch some older videos of slower cars and cars which are actually less fun than a GT3 and then compare them to the (almost) lackluster 918 review and even his GT3 review. There is something missing and I kind of get the feeling that it is related to his (CH) relationship to Porsche. I may be wrong though and since I do not know CH personally, I apologize if I assumed something which isn't true. This is just the gut feeling I have.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: IAA today

    RC:

    Even with modern cars, you can have a lot of fun if you try to explore their boundaries. Unfortunately this isn't easy anymore since many modern cars have such a high limit that you can barely enjoy it on a public street. 

    Yes, indeed, many want a sports car but they also want all the comfort and gizmos offered on regular cars, no doubt about it. I just don't understand what is wrong about it? Not everyone can afford a second or third "fun" car, so it needs to satisfy all needs: Daily driver needs and fun needs. Not easy for sports car manufacturers.

    Chris Harris is a great car journalist, no doubt about it. He is fun to watch and to listen too, his reviews are special and his driving is sometimes short of spectacular BUT, he is a showman, not really a race car driver. He knows how to drive, no doubt but like you and me, he also knows that drifting slows down, so this is purely for show only. It looks good on video but I know 18 year kids who can do the same (well, maybe not THAT skillful) but this doesn't really mean much I'm afraid. Still...I love his videos and his comments, he always find the right words, even if they are sometimes critical. However I get the feeling that sometimes, he is a little bit confused and furthermore, I also think that since this seems to be his business, he kind of has or has not more interest to promote a certain brand...or not. Please don't misunderstand me but most car journalists I know personally (and I know quite a few in Germany) can barely afford a Boxster. Just saying...

    That said, I appreciate Chris Harris opinions but I do not always respect them. Please watch some older videos of slower cars and cars which are actually less fun than a GT3 and then compare them to the (almost) lackluster 918 review and even his GT3 review. There is something missing and I kind of get the feeling that it is related to his (CH) relationship to Porsche. I may be wrong though and since I do not know CH personally, I apologize if I assumed something which isn't true. This is just the gut feeling I have.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    I wouldn't go so far as to state CH doesn't have real racing skills, look at his success during the Nürburgring 24h or more recently in historic racing. Also regarding journalist not being able to own/afford sportscars, he is quite an extensive track record of owning pretty special cars (993 GT2, 996 GT2, 997 4.0 RS, 599, ...)

    I don't always agree with what he says, but I really respect his words and views.


    Re: IAA today

    Perhaps CH has very high expectations from Porsche and the current cars aren't delivering what he wants.  I'm in the same boat and its very difficult not to be negative about what many people see as great cars.  I've got to the point where I actually dislike driving the 981/991 cars because they are not delivering what I want from a sports car.  Its frustrating but  they are nothing more than fast bland transport for me.


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    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: IAA today

    Like I said, I do not know CH personally and I apologize if I said something untrue about him. I just wanted to point out that drifting looks spectacular but doesn't necessarily mean that a car is fast or even fun to drive. This is something he does to entertain the viewers and I totally get it, I do.

    Speaking of CH's disappointment with Porsche, well, I do not understand. Honestly. The GT3 is an amazing car, so is the new 991 Turbo S. He owned a GT3 RS 4.0 and from what I heard from various people who have driven the GT3, even with PDK, the new GT3 is more fun to drive. Then, CH sold his RS for a 599 and while he had his issues with Ferrari in the past, nowadays it seems that his relationship is different. He will probably drive the 458 Speciale before he drives the 991 Turbo S and this is kind of weird in my opinion.

    Maybe it is just me...I don't really want to make a big fuss out of it. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: IAA today

    RC:

    Speaking of CH's disappointment with Porsche, well, I do not understand. Honestly. The GT3 is an amazing car, so is the new 991 Turbo S. He owned a GT3 RS 4.0 and from what I heard from various people who have driven the GT3, even with PDK, the new GT3 is more fun to drive.

    Fun is a very subjective thing though.  CH said the GT3 was amazing but he missed a manual gearchange.  He also said the Cayman S steering was unacceptable in patchy damp conditions.  Both grounds for disappointment if you ask  me.  

    And I think the drifting is purely for show on his reviews (perhaps he enjoys it - who knows).  But I've seen him drive properly - very fast and tidy.   Wonder if he'll like this?

    Frankfurt motor show 2013: Top 5 British cars

    80 bhp, steel wheels and skinny tyres with big sidewalls!   For me that would be more fun on a UK B road than any 981/991.

     


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    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: IAA today

    If CH would love such cars, he would own one. Does he?  Also, most race car drivers I know personally (quite a few), own super sports cars but I don't know one who owns a Caterham, a Donkervoort or a Radical. Just a co-incidence? I don't know. yes Speaking of track fun: For me, it is fun to be faster than the others. Actually most people I meet at track events think the same. We had a couple of Lotus and other (older) lighter weight cars, like stripped out 964 during our track sessions but they stood no chance. So I wonder: How much fun can it be to...loose?! angry The owners weren't pleased at all, I can tell you.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: IAA today

    Some people like to work hard when driving fast. They see this as involvement and a proof a higher skill.

    If this is what they enjoy, there is no right or wrong. The objective is to derive driving pleasure whichever way. definitely, Porsche is catering less and less for this type of people, mostly because they are a gradually diminishing species.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: IAA today

    reginos:

    Some people like to work hard when driving fast. They see this as involvement and a proof a higher skill.

    If this is what they enjoy, there is no right or wrong. The objective is to derive driving pleasure whichever way. definitely, Porsche is catering less and less for this type of people, mostly because they are a gradually diminishing species.

    True. Why are they so pissed when they loose though? Smiley One guy in a 964 once attacked the fastest driver by calling his car a crappy robot car. He was driving a 991 Carrera S. If you like the involvement and enjoy "working hard" to be fast, then you accept whatever is thrown at you. Also, I work hard too in my car, this is why I am faster than other people in the same car. Smiley

    I am sorry, I get the whole involvement thing but this is like skiing with 30 year old skis and being happy about it. Insane.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: IAA today

    I'm not disagreeing with much you say other than I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of speed for a more involving experience.  I don't want an old slow car for an esoteric reason like its fun to work hard. I want a fast modern car just not as remote as Porsche have become.  If I'm in a slower car on the track I really don't care if I'm overtaken by someone in a faster car.  I will own this slower car for other reasons which I am intrinsically happy with and track driving is well down my list of priorities.  But we are muddling track driving and road driving.  Involvement I was discussing is for the road where being speed limited (socially and/or legally)  it spices up the driving experience.  And the Porsche steering has become so remote as to become unpleasant for me.

    As an aside, in my experience the people who get most annoyed at the track are the people in newish Porsches or Ferraris who get destroyed by an old Honda Civic or a lightweight special that is well set up and well driven.  I once actually heard a guy complain that he didn't spend all that money to get overtaken by a Japanese dustbin. 


    On the analogy of skis, the modern skis have made life easier but without robbing you of the fantastic sensations skiing provides.  However, I have noticed a definite increase in people on long thin skis and even more crazily mono-skis.  That is daft but if some ski technology emerged that made you faster down the slope at the expense of that feeling of how much the ski is flexing and then accelerating you out of the turn, would you be interested?  I wouldn't.

    Another analogy could be mechanical Swish watches.  By and large these are less accurate than a quality quartz or GPS watch so by an objective/quantifiable measurement they don't perform as well.  Yet many of us on Rennteam have them so the subjective factors can be more important.  And steering feel is clearly a subjective matter.


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    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: IAA today

    Yes, I prefer a mechanical watch over a Quartz watch but let's be honest, we don't buy expensive watches because we necessarily enjoy the technology (how could we, there is no "involvement"...well, we have to move the watch maybe) but because we enjoy the make, the build quality and because we know (but do not directly experience) the technology behind it. We also enjoy the looks of people who recognize these watches, so...

    Back to cars: I never liked old cars, I'm not a fan. For me, oldtimers are old, not special. There are a few exceptions though, very special cars, like an AC Cobra, a Lamborghini Miura (or Countach for that matter), a Ford Mustang GT350 Fastback or even a Porsche 964 RS. I do like specific cars from the past but 99% of the old cars are not interesting to me, not a bit. Even an old 911 2.7 cannot really catch my attention and when someone falls in love with a 356, I just don't understand. Not my type of car, slow, underpowered and...old.

    I love modern technology, I love gadgets and if I had the money, my house would probably have more technology in it than Bill Gates' house. This is why I love new cars and new technology. The 991 Turbo S is like a mobile gadget to me, I just can't wait to drive it. I recently saw a YouTube report claiming that everyone can drive a 991 Turbo S and it is a wonder that the car doesn't drive by itself. Really? Turn on Sport Plus, then go to the limit and then tell me again how everyone can drive it. A journalist friend did exactly that in Bilster Berg and he almost crashed. indecision There is always a challenge in new technology, you just need to embrace it. Sometimes I get the feeling that people stick to the past because they are afraid of the new. I wish people were that faithul with human beings, like not cheating on their wives. Loved an article about a guy who collects older Porsche because they are reliable and modern technology sucks. Then, the article mentioned that this guy was divorced four times. Oh well...

    Bottom line is: People seem to have different ideas about the definition of "driving fun". For me, it is exploring a new challenge, new technologies and trying to hit the limit. For others, it is just the pure enjoyment of doing "something" in a car, which I can very well relate too but it would be too boring for me. Old stuff over and over again, where is the challenge in that? yes I stick to being faithul to my wife and vacationing in the same spots most of the time. The challenge, I find in new cars, not in old ones. To each his own I guess. wink


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: IAA today

    ^^^  i agree with most of what you say... Except the older cars ;)  i don't like most either, but the ones I like, are different. Mainly from one brand with a green snake and a red cross in its logo indecision

    Regarding the watches... I only wear them as jewelery. I'm a huge fan of Ebel watches but I never use them to look what time it is. i have an iPhone for that task  ;)

    Back to cars, 

    Exploring a PDK-car's limits can be just as, or even more involving as driving a manual. Driving manual is fun,  i agree, but the downside is that it is really annoying to drive in traffic and in the city. There I like the comfort of an "automatic" mode. It's something that is different for every person I guess...


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    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: IAA today

    Suzy, I owned seven(!) Lancia, even raced them professionally (Delta HF Integrale) and never thought I would love another car in the future. Now I think of them as a part of my past but I would never buy one again. From time to time, the urge to get a used HF Integrale comes back but when I start remembering the problems I had with these cars, I come back to reality pretty fast.

    Alfa Romeo? Well, a fun story for you: At some point, when I was in my mid 20s, my parents got me a BMW 325i because they knew I love fast cars but they also wanted something safe for me. It was after my Lancia experience and after I ended my group N rallye career. I  just had finished my first university and they were proud of me. In the beginning, I loved the 325i, it was a pretty fast car for it's time but...boring as hell. When a girl I dated asked me if this is my parents' car, it was enough for me, I had to get rid of it. I went to a local Alfa Romeo dealer, I liked the idea of having a cab and the Spider was very nice looking. So I talked to the dealer about the Spider and how much he would give me to take in my BMW 325i. You know what he told me? "Are you crazy? You want to give away a BMW for an Alfa Romeo? Are you nuts?" This was owner of the dealership himself. He made me a good offer but again advised against getting it.

    Then, I got an offer from Toyota for a Celica Turbo 4WD I couldn't refuse (they probably secretely hoped that I would start racing again, they were preparing their group N activities at that time), incl. taking in my BMW and since that was a very special car (modified with race wheels, additional and larger brake cooling ducts, increased boost pressure), I took the offer. Drove it for half a year and swore to myself to never get a japanese car again.

    Speaking of driving fun, PDK, manual, etc.: Maybe I should have made myself a little bit clearer. I would LOVE to have some nice manual cars in my garage, like for example the AC Cobra I mentioned or even a 964 RS. Thats not the point. The point is: I cannot afford, like most people, to have several different cars in my garage, so I have to go with one or two. This is where I draw the line, looking for the best compromise. Like you said, there are situations where you just want to switch to auto mode and relax. For example when I am stuck in a traffic jam for two hours. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: IAA today

    I only really want one car so I had high hopes for PDK when it came out because 70% of my driving is commuting to work in busy traffic.  My first experience with it was on the track where it works brilliantly.  But then I just found it so boring driving fast on the road that I had to have a manual.  If my journey to work is really bad, my left leg can ache but I still wouldn't compromise for PDK.


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    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: IAA today

    GR:

    I only really want one car so I had high hopes for PDK when it came out because 70% of my driving is commuting to work in busy traffic.  My first experience with it was on the track where it works brilliantly.  But then I just found it so boring driving fast on the road that I had to have a manual.  If my journey to work is really bad, my left leg can ache but I still wouldn't compromise for PDK.

    In the 991 PDK is good enough to use manual mode without regrets. Maybe you should try again...


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: IAA today

    RC:

    Suzy, I owned seven(!) Lancia, even raced them professionally (Delta HF Integrale) and never thought I would love another car in the future. Now I think of them as a part of my past but I would never buy one again. From time to time, the urge to get a used HF Integrale comes back but when I start remembering the problems I had with these cars, I come back to reality pretty fast.

    Alfa Romeo? Well, a fun story for you: At some point, when I was in my mid 20s, my parents got me a BMW 325i because they knew I love fast cars but they also wanted something safe for me. It was after my Lancia experience and after I ended my group N rallye career. I  just had finished my first university and they were proud of me. In the beginning, I loved the 325i, it was a pretty fast car for it's time but...boring as hell. When a girl I dated asked me if this is my parents' car, it was enough for me, I had to get rid of it. I went to a local Alfa Romeo dealer, I liked the idea of having a cab and the Spider was very nice looking. So I talked to the dealer about the Spider and how much he would give me to take in my BMW 325i. You know what he told me? "Are you crazy? You want to give away a BMW for an Alfa Romeo? Are you nuts?" This was owner of the dealership himself. He made me a good offer but again advised against getting it.

    Then, I got an offer from Toyota for a Celica Turbo 4WD I couldn't refuse (they probably secretely hoped that I would start racing again, they were preparing their group N activities at that time), incl. taking in my BMW and since that was a very special car (modified with race wheels, additional and larger brake cooling ducts, increased boost pressure), I took the offer. Drove it for half a year and swore to myself to never get a japanese car again.

    Speaking of driving fun, PDK, manual, etc.: Maybe I should have made myself a little bit clearer. I would LOVE to have some nice manual cars in my garage, like for example the AC Cobra I mentioned or even a 964 RS. Thats not the point. The point is: I cannot afford, like most people, to have several different cars in my garage, so I have to go with one or two. This is where I draw the line, looking for the best compromise. Like you said, there are situations where you just want to switch to auto mode and relax. For example when I am stuck in a traffic jam for two hours. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Hahaha 
     
    For me Alfa Romeo has mainly emotional attraction. When i was 6 years old, my uncle (Italian) came to visit us in his freshly restored Montreal and when i heard that exhaust note it gave me goosebumps all over and it still does. It's probably the one and only reason that I became a petrolhead. I love that car. He still owns it and he promised me to give it to me at sometime. Still waiting.... ;)  He runs a couple of dealerships in Holland and is now waiting for a 4C launch edition he ordered. There may be a chance that i'm gonna drive him crazy to sell that one to me :)
    My mom also drove Alfa for a long time. Her first one was a 1962 Giullietta Spider, which is one of the oldtimers i really would like to own, mainly because of that. 
    My biggest problem is space and the lack of knowledge to maintain cars like that myself. i will always need to depend on other people. The 4C is the first new Alfa in years which could have the true emotional feeling of an Alfa Romeo of the old days. One thing for sure... i love that exhaust note :)

    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: IAA today

    RC:
    GR:

    I only really want one car so I had high hopes for PDK when it came out because 70% of my driving is commuting to work in busy traffic.  My first experience with it was on the track where it works brilliantly.  But then I just found it so boring driving fast on the road that I had to have a manual.  If my journey to work is really bad, my left leg can ache but I still wouldn't compromise for PDK.

    In the 991 PDK is good enough to use manual mode without regrets. Maybe you should try again...

    I did last week - 2 days with a 981 Boxster S loan car.  It still doesn't do it for me.


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    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: IAA today

    Try a new(er) 991 and make sure the car has Sport Chrono (switch to Sport Plus mode).

    The new 991 Turbo S for example provides faster PDK shifting times than the Ferrari 458, which is quite fast.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: IAA today

    SuzyF:
    The 4C is the first new Alfa in years which could have the true emotional feeling of an Alfa Romeo of the old days. One thing for sure... i love that exhaust note :)

    I registered with Alfa Romeo as a potential buyer when they offered that service but they never contacted me back. Smiley Pretty lame if you ask me. I was really interested in the car, such a low weight, such a great performance for such a "low" price...highly interesting.

    I would wait for a first test and I also have to admit that I'm not a fan of the frontlights design.

    Also, this is quite new technology for Alfa Romeo, even with the help of Maserati. I'm not sure how the quality will be...


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: IAA today

    That is very lame indeed.

    i agree that especially the build quality may be not the same as for example a Cayman, but I for some reason I can accept that from Alfa Romeo. I can't wait to drive the car.  The first reviews seem to be pretty good.


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    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


    Re: IAA today

    SuzyF:

    i agree that especially the build quality may be not the same as for example a Cayman, but I for some reason I can accept that from Alfa Romeo. 

    You shouldn't say that out loud. It'll just make them complacent and they'll never improve.  

     


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    fritz


    Re: IAA today

    I shouldn't imagine build quality will be a major issue for the 4C. I've had two Gran Turismos built in the same Maserati factory in Modena and both were faultless. I also had an Alfa MiTo for over a year and had no issues with that car either. Everything worked as it should and it was well put together with no squeaks or rattles. The 4C looks like pretty amazing value for the performance it offers so a less plush cabin is a price worth paying to keep the weight and price down IMHO kiss I didn't care for the production headlight design either but can understand why they went that way on cost grounds. They look a lot better with the carbon fibre surrounds and I've found the more I see videos of the car online the less of an issue they become.

    The lack of communication from Alfa is something I've also experienced unfortunately and is an area they really need to improve upon. The latest edition of CAR magazine suggests Alfa may be on course to abandon the smaller front drive cars - MiTo and Giulietta - and concentrate on rear wheel drive (new Giulia and Alfetta saloons) and four wheel drive models (possibly 2 SUV's to compete with the BMW X1 and X3 models) instead in a bid to push the brand upmarket. It's a good strategy but they will need to overhaul their dealer network yet again if they want to be perceived as a premium brand.


    Re: IAA today

    I have also had two Alfa Romeo (MiTo and Giulietta) and both were faultless, but in terms of used materials not comparable with for example Audi. 

    i'm not sure if it is smart to abandon the smaller FWD cars. I do think it's smart to concentrate on a more premium market. The dealer network can be a big problem indeed, but that problem is more because of Fiat. Most dealerships also sell lancia and Fiat. My uncle who runs three dealerships is always complaining about the support Fiat gives to the Alfa and Lancia brands. They only give good support on Fiat cars, but not on the other brands. Most of that support comes down to the dealerships themselves.

    --

    I'm just another female petrolhead :)

     


     
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    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
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    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 12/30/20 9:03 AM
    rhino
     
     
     
     
     
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    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 7/4/21 12:06 PM
    nberry
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    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 7/28/21 4:07 PM
    pgouveia
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    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
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    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
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    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 8/2/21 4:14 PM
    lexs4
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    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    5755 29
    Porsche Cayman GT4 5/4/21 4:46 PM
    Topspeed
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 6/25/21 2:56 PM
    the-missile
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    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 6/22/21 5:42 PM
    Topspeed
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
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    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 7/20/21 3:10 PM
    Topspeed
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
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    Porsche 992 GT3 7/31/21 11:32 PM
    bvineyards
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    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
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    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
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    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/30/21 4:07 PM
    WhoopsyM
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    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 7/5/21 4:30 PM
    BjoernB
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    McLaren F1 7/10/21 7:43 AM
    BiTurbo
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    AMG AMG GT R 7/8/21 3:07 PM
    CGX car nut
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    Lambo Aventador and SV 7/10/21 1:17 AM
    4trac
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    Porsche 991 Speedster 9/3/20 4:29 PM
    Topspeed
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    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
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    Others Bugatti Chiron 7/22/21 6:55 PM
    Topspeed
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    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 6/24/21 6:30 PM
    Porker
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    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
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    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 7/31/21 9:40 PM
    Gladstone
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