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    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Starting a business in Europe is possible but venture capital choices/offers are quite limited and finding the right people to work for you is another challenge since mentality is often more focused on the payment and benefits than the job itself. I do not think however that this is valid for the whole of the EU, there are exceptions.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    noone1:
    bluelines:
    ALDO:
    noone1:

    Europe is simply anti-business these days. Plain and simple. I would never want to start a business or invest in Europe if I could accomplish the same thing in the US. The US has taken a seriously negative tone as well regarding M&A lately (get the popcorn ready for Office Depot bankruptcy), but it's still way more friendly in just about every way.

    There is no ONE EUROPE. Sorry, but life is not so simple as you try to explain.

    LOL! I have had to bite my tongue many times due to such comments about "Europe" Smiley

    OK, I'll rephrase. The countries in Europe where the vast, vasty, vasty number of people live are poor choices to start a business. If it's not a tax haven, you probably don't want to start a business there unless you're only targeting the European market.

    Europe is just too pro-employee/pro-consumers/pro-tenants. Everything is more expensive not only on a currency level, but also due to things like VAT. The only thing I've experience being cheaper was Internet/mobile service. You can exploit most of the same tax loopholes from the US too.

    Right!  Who'd want to start a business to target a market of "only" 500 million consumers?   Smiley


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    fritz


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    European consumers are less likely to accept new products though (and sometimes for a good reason because these products often don't keep what they promise, look at those tiny in-ear headphones we were discussing in a separate thread). Sometimes I find products at Best Buy or other retailers in the US which are not even available in Europe yet.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    fritz:
    noone1:
    bluelines:
    ALDO:
    noone1:

    Europe is simply anti-business these days. Plain and simple. I would never want to start a business or invest in Europe if I could accomplish the same thing in the US. The US has taken a seriously negative tone as well regarding M&A lately (get the popcorn ready for Office Depot bankruptcy), but it's still way more friendly in just about every way.

    There is no ONE EUROPE. Sorry, but life is not so simple as you try to explain.

    LOL! I have had to bite my tongue many times due to such comments about "Europe" Smiley

    OK, I'll rephrase. The countries in Europe where the vast, vasty, vasty number of people live are poor choices to start a business. If it's not a tax haven, you probably don't want to start a business there unless you're only targeting the European market.

    Europe is just too pro-employee/pro-consumers/pro-tenants. Everything is more expensive not only on a currency level, but also due to things like VAT. The only thing I've experience being cheaper was Internet/mobile service. You can exploit most of the same tax loopholes from the US too.

    Right!  Who'd want to start a business to target a market of "only" 500 million consumers?   Smiley

    It's more a matter of localized workforce and therefore localized expenses and assets. If you want to start a travel company that only targets Germans, you're probably going to need to be in Germany and employ Germans who can read/write in German and understand Germany culture. If you're going to invest in some sort of infrastructure project or hard assets in Europe, you're going to need people living and working there to support it.

    I wouldn't want a presence in Europe unless I needed one. There are better/cheaper places to do R&D and there are usually better/cheaper places to manufacture.

    Oh, and fuck employment contracts. Businesses need flexibility in managing their workforce and doing it cheaply and quickly.


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    wow - fuck employee contracts and rights - fuck human rights - fuck environmental care - fuck social help - fuck health care 

    You probably know the main problem of parasites - if they would arrange a fair deal with their hosts - both would survive. But they do not and at the end first the host dies and after that the parasites. The same could happen with your employees which should not ask for rights, proper paying, contractual security, .... just work cheaply for you 


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    AM


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    ALDO:

    wow - fuck employee contracts and rights - fuck human rights - fuck environmental care - fuck social help - fuck health care 

    Nobody said that but I agree, there needs to be some flexibility in start ups and newly opened companies.

    You probably know the main problem of parasites - if they would arrange a fair deal with their hosts - both would survive. But they do not and at the end first the host dies and after that the parasites. The same could happen with your employees which should not ask for rights, proper paying, contractual security, .... just work cheaply for you 

    I guess you had a bad experience in the past? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    RC:
    ALDO:

    wow - fuck employee contracts and rights - fuck human rights - fuck environmental care - fuck social help - fuck health care 

    Nobody said that but I agree, there needs to be some flexibility in start ups and newly opened companies.

    You probably know the main problem of parasites - if they would arrange a fair deal with their hosts - both would survive. But they do not and at the end first the host dies and after that the parasites. The same could happen with your employees which should not ask for rights, proper paying, contractual security, .... just work cheaply for you 

    I guess you had a bad experience in the past? Smiley

    No, I have never a bad experience - I try to run my business on a fair basis - for me and for my employees. I have to admit that I hate the bloodsucking and exploiting chiefs although I never had such a chief in my life.

    About startups and flexibility - the main problem is that we don´t have people here which are ready to invest so much money in startups. We have a ton of technology center where startup could start and grew up. They get cheap offices to rent, free consulting but they don´t get the money so easy as I could imagine in US happens.. We see only the top startup companies (from US) and all their success stories we don´t see the grave of failed startups.


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    AM


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    noone1:

    Oh, and fuck employment contracts. Businesses need flexibility in managing their workforce and doing it cheaply and quickly.

    I was referring tho this statement


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    AM


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    ALDO:
    We see only the top startup companies (from US) and all their success stories we don´t see the grave of failed startups.

    True but if you don't try... Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Don't you ever have employees that don't work out and just aren't good? Don't you just ever need to fire people? I know people who run great businesses and are very fair, and they didn't want to open an office in Spain for example and were super, super careful about who they hired because it's a pain in the ass to get rid of people.


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Why not try? I have tried and in my eyes made it  


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    AM


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    noone1:

    Don't you ever have employees that don't work out and just aren't good? Don't you just ever need to fire people?

    yes of course! For that we have a contracts. Or do you mean just killing them - would be sometimes easier - hope that the same doesn't apply to me as employer


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    AM



    Re: Tesla Model 3

    It is very difficult to fire someone in Germany and you know that. Especially if that specific job is "controlled" by a labor union, including the contracts.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    RC:

    It is very difficult to fire someone in Germany and you know that. Especially if that specific job is "controlled" by a labor union, including the contracts.

    Yes, it is difficult but not impossible! I think it is not easy to get rid of a lot of contracts.


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    AM


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    noone1:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/10/world/europe/proposed-changes-to-french-labor-law-bring-workers-to-streets.html?_r=0

    You are right, that France has a very pro employee system. But if you go back and take a look at France and the history - you will find the answer why it so.

    The majority of people are employees. You have to accept what the majority chooses - that is democracy! 


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    AM


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    You can choose. I left France and Europe...


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    SciFrog:

    You can choose. I left France and Europe...

    Smiley I wish I could do the same but I guess I'm too late (too rooted with business and kids right now...) to the game.

    Still trying to find a business idea to fit my (financial) needs and talents, other than letting my wife work more. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    How about your computer skills? Despite some naysayers here I know you have some Smiley


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    SciFrog:

    How about your computer skills? Despite some naysayers here I know you have some Smiley

    Not good enough to compete with young(er) people in the field, some of them are amazing. Knowledge, experience and fun isn't enough, you need to spend 24/7 time for that to become really good, things change fast and I can barely keep up with the stuff I'm really interested in (currently, smartphone security). I have a job, a wife, two kids...

    Of course I could always open up RC's Gadgets Repair and Setup Center in Miami but I'm not sure it would work. Smiley

    I wish I could do something with cars, this wouldn't require all my time (especially at night Smiley) and I am really passionate about them and I'm sure I could sell them to people who appreciate a good service and dedication.

    In my current business, I can do what I want but there isn't much I could do to improve my financials, other than taking a huge risk and move my business somewhere else. My wife would just need to work 20 hours more per week and she would almost double her income (which is already bigger than mine with much less work).

    Long story short: I'm still thinking... Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    No money in a gadget repair for sure. No easy money in the car business either unless you own a dealership which is either very expensive or simply impossible to do. Something like creating a company that does something similar to Singer (but somewhat cheaper) on the east coast might be interesting but where do you find the talent and expertise to make the cars...


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    SciFrog:

    No money in a gadget repair for sure. No easy money in the car business either unless you own a dealership which is either very expensive or simply impossible to do. Something like creating a company that does something similar to Singer (but somewhat cheaper) on the east coast might be interesting but where do you find the talent and expertise to make the cars...

    Interesting thought...but you're right, without the right people with proper knowledge and experience, this cannot work.

    It is impossible for me to open a car dealership, I do not have the expertise nor the financial means to do that. I am a fast learner but for a car business to succeed, you need someone with experience, this is not something you can do out of the blue I'm afraid. I would love this work though, this would be exactly right up my alley but only if we are talking Porsche or other sports cars here. I wouldn't want to sell Nissans. Smiley

    I will come up with something eventually but probably when I'm 70 and lost interest... Smiley Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Florida Alfa Romeo dealership to sell Giulias and 4C?

    How much capital do I need for a dealership?


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Alfa is Fiat, they sell a lot of them and I don't think RC would be happy selling 100hp Fiat 500s all day smiley


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    After reading through three pages of discussions on EU related labor issues and SAP, one has yet to read anything about the Tesla Model 3; is this topic no longer relevant?

     


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    CGX car nut:

    After reading through three pages of discussions on EU related labor issues and SAP, one has yet to read anything about the Tesla Model 3; is this topic no longer relevant?

    Its all about challenges that are coming with new "smart" electric cars. IMO last three pages are showing some concerns that could be pretty huge problem when we get 500k new Teslas on roads.

    Self parking options while there is lack of sensors on some spots on car, Autonomous driving while there are still some issues etc. 

    ____________________________________________________

    News regarding Tesla Model 3:

    Tesla currently holds 373,000 reservations for its Model 3 electric car due late next year. That follows customer cancellations of about 8,000 cars and 4,200 duplicates canceled by the company. 

    The numbers were reported as part of a Tesla filing to raise $1.4 billion in a share offering to pay for the accelerated launch of the car. Company executives had previously indicated reservations totaling about 400,000, without giving an absolute number. The reservations have been coming organically, without a promotional push since the March 31 unveiling. Meanwhile, Tesla said, its existing models are still very much for sale.

     


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    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

     


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Milanno:
    CGX car nut:

    After reading through three pages of discussions on EU related labor issues and SAP, one has yet to read anything about the Tesla Model 3; is this topic no longer relevant?

    Its all about challenges that are coming with new "smart" electric cars. IMO last three pages are showing some concerns that could be pretty huge problem when we get 500k new Teslas on roads.

    Self parking options while there is lack of sensors on some spots on car, Autonomous driving while there are still some issues etc. 

    ____________________________________________________

    News regarding Tesla Model 3:

    Tesla currently holds 373,000 reservations for its Model 3 electric car due late next year. That follows customer cancellations of about 8,000 cars and 4,200 duplicates canceled by the company. 

    The numbers were reported as part of a Tesla filing to raise $1.4 billion in a share offering to pay for the accelerated launch of the car. Company executives had previously indicated reservations totaling about 400,000, without giving an absolute number. The reservations have been coming organically, without a promotional push since the March 31 unveiling. Meanwhile, Tesla said, its existing models are still very much for sale.

     


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    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

     

    Please re-review the past pages, one had written about Tesla's approach to autonomous driving technologies and its lack of risk mitigation, especially with man-in-the-loop control issues.   The previous post is with regard to many posts on SAP, Oracle database management, and hourly compensation.  That sir, has little relevance to the points you have posted above.  


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Well, if you will insist on us getting back on topic.............  indecision

    There are many parties who will need to clean up their act a lot before autonomous driving can come into widespread use. It won't be just the car manufacturers who need to ensure that the distribution and types of proximity sensors, radar transceivers and cameras around the cars are adequate, and that the control software is adequately fine-tuned to eliminate possible glitches. 

    The road planning and maintenance departments will also have a lot of homework to do before an autonomous vehicle, which will not be as "tolerant" of unclear or irregular road conditions as an alert human might be, can be let loose on the general public. 

    Where I currently do most of my driving I have cause every day to cuss poor road surfaces and faded lane markings, badly sited kerbside parking bays which don't leave enough room for even a car (let alone trucks and buses) to manoeuvre past them without crossing lane lines intended to separate them from oncoming traffic, which is in turn confronted with the same situation in the other lane. These conditions have bred a generation of drivers locally who think that "First come, first served" is the primary rule in the so-called Highway Code, not to mention the crazy habit of crossing the lane of oncoming traffic to park in a free bay facing in the wrong direction to save a longer walk!

    My wife is already tired of me saying that the layouts and signposting of roads and car parks in the UK are obviously left to the local village idiot, rather than being the domain of experts working to a set of sensible standards which reflect 21st century vehicles and traffic conditions. 

    The UK government wants to promote the early introduction of autonomous vehicles. I don't think it has yet realised just how much money it will need to spend on the infrastructure to avoid daily disasters if the target date of 2020 is to be met. 

    Whilst the above does not relate solely to the Tesla Model 3, I think it is at least still relevant.    


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    fritz


    Re: Tesla Model 3

    Faraday Future hires ex-Ferrari exec, plans to test cars in Michigan http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1104371_faraday-future-hires-ex-ferrari-exec-plans-to-test-cars-in-michigan


     
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