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    2005 911

    Wow, there is so much speculation and so many embellished rumors floating around about the 2005 911 on Porsche Boards these days, I just can't stay silent any longer. It seems everybody is so hungry they will believe anything, especially if the provider of the mis-information is from Germany.

    My company supplies parts for the US spec Cayenne, I get to visit Porsche several times a year and have just returned from a 10-day trip. I go mostly to Leipzig, but I also spend time at Weissach and Stuttgart. Within Porsche, the 2005 plan for the 911 is widely known, I am surprised that people who say they have got "inside" contacts get it so wrong.

    The 2005 models will go into production after the normal annual changeover time. By the time it is shown in Paris some of you might be driving one. The 911 2005 models will get a major facelift, the spy photos I have seen mostly look like the real cars. Apart from the oval headlights (not round), the relocation of the other lights to the bumper area and the redesigned rear, the cars don't look a lot different. The interior has been modestly redesigned and there is a lot more standard aluminum look trim. The instrument cluster looks similar to the GT. I have been told the 2005 models will get new seats but the ones I saw didn't look any different.

    The chassis is basically the same. There will be different wheels available, 18 inch will be standard on all models. There will be four normally aspirated models C2, C2S, C4 and C4S. The body is basically the same for all four models. The C2 and C4 will keep the current 320 hp engine, the C2S and C4S will have the 345 hp engine currently offered in the Carrera Power Kit. I don't know if all four models will be sold in the US. The cabriolet versions will be introduced in early 2005, they may be designated 2006's
    The new Turbo will also be introduced in early 2005, again it maybe designated a 2006 model. The GT2 and GT3 cars will remain the same for one or two more years.

    The Engineer

    Re: 2005 911

    Thanks for your insight the engineer,
    You confirmed my fear. 345hp is ok (I'm still hoping for 350 hp though) but basic 997 with 320 hp is very disappointing IMHO.
    Surprising also that according to your post, the S models share the same body as the normal models. So how will they call the widebody NA models.
    The SS? Humm, that would be a very bad taste historical joke, especially for a german car.
    Are you sure that the 345 hp models will be call S? Sounds weird, it would be a first in Porsche's history (actually no, I just remembered the 70s 911S as opposed to the 911E and 911T)
    I'm not surprised that the car won't be very different actually.
    I mean look at the 911 up until the 993, the interior has NEVER changed!
    Thanks the Engineer and welcome.

    Re: 2005 911

    If this is true then after 6 years with the 996, the new 997 is just a facelifted 996 with options that are already available now. If this is true then Porsche just lost a customer for the 997... I will be so freaking dissapointed with Porsche, I guess dedicating its R&D to building a sedan than the due 911 model is more important for Porsche

    Re: 2005 911

    I was expecting the X-51 345hp engine to be on the standard model and 3.8L with around 375hp to be on the S. If your info is correct, that will be a majpr disappointment...

    Re: 2005 911

    Quote:
    The GT2 and GT3 cars will remain the same for one or two more years.



    So there will be a "997" GT2 & GT3 EVENTUALLY?

    Re: 2005 911

    Quote:
    The Engineer said:
    There will be four normally aspirated models C2, C2S, C4 and C4S.
    The Engineer



    Does this mean the 997C4S will be available at the same time the 997C2 is introduced?

    Re: 2005 911

    Carlito!
    Here we come Aston AMV8!!!

    Re: 2005 911

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Carlito!
    Here we come Aston AMV8!!!



    yeah, except the nearest AM dealer is a 5 hours drive from here

    I still can't believe this to be true at all, I really have my doubts Porsche would do such a move.

    Re: 2005 911

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Carlito!
    Here we come Aston AMV8!!!



    I will convert you two gentlemen yet!

    Hope to drive one of the first examples...

    Re: 2005 911

    My AM dealer is literally walking distance from my house.

    fanch we walk over there next time you're in Houston

    Re: 2005 911

    What a buzzkill!
    If the 997 is just a face lift I'll keep the 996 and pick up a new Z06 as a toy.

    Re: 2005 911

    We've known for months that the 997 was nothing more than a facelift, with the 998 coming in a few years as a redesign. Evolution (997) not revolution.

    For me, the pics don't do a thing. We'll see when the real deal shows up in showrooms.

    I like the 996 as it is. C4S Cab, even better.

    Re: 2005 911

    I hope this is not true. I have already told my friends that I was getting the new 911. Maybe I can get the new Audi on the cover of Car and Driver, after all if Porsche can buy their engines why not cut out the middleman. lol

    Re: 2005 911

    If you look at the hard points on the 996 and 997 you can see pretty easily that it is an extensive face lift and not a new model. Look at windshield angle and height. Look at back window angle and height. The bulkhead engineering for both front and back windshields are some of the most complex body engineering on a car and cost a fortune to do. Doors are not cheap either. Do they look similar with the exception of the door handles? Look at the arch of the roofline...Take a close look and you'll see.

    Re: 2005 911

    Well I think the 997 is great, it is what the 996 should have been. I think thats the point most of us are missing here, but heck what do I know, Ive never owned a 911? I guess this will show some of us that when you hold high expectations there is a big chance you might be let down, it's just better to go with the flow. The 997 will be a welcome addition to my garage.

    Re: 2005 911

    IF all goes well, that would be in September for three weeks.
    Gary, Ron, meal?

    Re: 2005 911

    MY major question is, if its just a facelift, with no real technical advancements, why all the 'ring and cold weather testing that we've been seeing pictures of for at least a year? It doesn't add up in my mind.

    Re: 2005 911

    Le Chef is right,
    And I know I keep on repeating myself, but Porsche is doing what it has always done.
    Except the jumps from 964 to 993 and of course 993 to 996, all the new 911 models have rather been big facelift than new car.
    Remember, the old lady is more than 40 years old now, respect

    Re: 2005 911

    Quote:
    And I know I keep on repeating myself, but Porsche is doing what it has always done.
    Except the jumps from 964 to 993 and of course 993 to 996, all the new 911 models have rather been big facelift than new car.



    exactly! i really don't know what some of you were expecting? a complete new, different looking 911? that wouldn't have been a 911 any more.

    if the car's still a good drive, good looking and sportier than the competition... i don't care if it's a facelift or 50% new or 99% new.

    but 320 HP for the standard carrera is a bit of a disappointment, no doubt about this one. i'm sure that we'll see an mid-lifecycle direct injection engine replacement with more HP for the 997.

    Re: 2005 911

    If you get the same engine with same output, same chasis and same options, whats the point? Facelifts are just a marketing strategy to increase sales from an aging car without investing the money of R&D for a new model. Facelifts is the norm after 3-4 years but after 6 years, a NEW model is due (1983 911 carrera -> 1989 964 -> 1993 993 -> 1999 996 -> ?). Now it seems that a new model won't be out until 9-10 years later after the 996! If thats true that would be just another kick in the stomach of the Porsche sportcar loyals and will eventually come back to haunt them fot their current cheap business politics.

    Can you guys tell I'm really pissed off? I was planning on driving a new 911 in one or two years (with a non-RMS leaking engine and modern HP outputs, new chasis, upgraded interior, etc) but instead we are offered a retro-styled facelifted version of the one I already have What do I do now? wait for a far away 998 (and maybe that will be another surprise too) or shift to the competition and screw Porsche, my all time favorite car manufacturer since childhood?

    Re: 2005 911

    I definitly agree with Zz.
    I won't go for the first two years of 997 anyway, bc that's when the glitches are sorted out, although since it's based on the 996, it should be ok. But in that case, Maybe I'll even wait for the 997 Mark 2 which as usual will get minor facelift and 20hp more.
    To Carlito, easy hombre! Let's just wait and see. Let's be honest, the 3.6 flat 6 is one of the best engines in the world, even in its 320hp stantdard form.
    And I think a lot will be improved: Direct fuel injection, better chassis (is it possible to improve on perfection? , better safety (as always), better quality interior (that is a serious priority), better seats, Dual clutch F1 gearbox, etc etc etc...
    New models these days look more like massive facelift rather than comeplely new cars.
    A few examples: Corvette, Audi A3, Audi A8, etc..
    The new models which are really different from their big sister are the ones that are replaced after more than 10 years (Ferrari 612, Merc SL, etc.)

    Re: 2005 911

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    IF all goes well, that would be in September for three weeks.
    Gary, Ron, meal?



    Absolutely Fanch! Meal, drive through the hill country, visit the dealership, whatever you have time for. Heck, I'd drive you to Big Bend if you wanted to go!

    On the subject of 911's, the 993 to 996 was such a monumental change, it will take a bit of time before that event is fully digested. I think the body structure will remain static for a few years with only the facelifts we are seeing. Hopefully there are durability and reliability evolutions going on under the surface. As mentioned previously, the rear main seal problem needs to be addressed. I personally love the new look.

    Re: 2005 911

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Let's just wait and see. Let's be honest, the 3.6 flat 6 is one of the best engines in the world, even in its 320hp stantdard form.



    And the 996, I think most of us agree, is one of the best cars in the world. That's why we're reading this.

    I finally really like the 996 look, after five years, and I like the 997 shots I'm seeing. If the 997 is marginally more effective than the 996, what's the problem?

    I just freakin' love the 911 and am happy that Porsche stays true to it and just keeps making it better.

    Dain

    Re: 2005 911

    Did I read in a previous post that the 997 will weigh 100 lbs more than current 996 with the same hp? This is why I would be disappointed same hp, more wt. means less performance. I remember a someone saying " Lead or get out of the way", I just want to be leading in a Porsche!

    Re: 2005 911

    nothing is sure about the 997's weight yet.

    some rumours say it's getting a little bit heavier, some say it's getting a little bit lighter because of leaving out some damming material (which also is going to enhance the engine sound FX in the cockpit).

    i tend to believe in the second scenario. a 996 being faster on the straight line than the 997 would be a disaster for porsche's PR.

    Re: 2005 911

    Yes, heavier would be a disappointment! I agree with that.

    How about 100 pounds lighter and $10,000 less?

    Now THAT'S an advancement!

    Dain

    "Boy, you've got to carry that weight..."

    More likely 997 will be heavier due to increased demands from crash safety regulations.

    And if you think that's bad wait until you see the new restrictions designed to protect pedestrians in an accident. Hood lines will have to be higher, no "leaping cat" ornaments, no bull bars, front bumpers more rounded and softer still, hidden windshield wipers, etc. The 998 design team must be facing a nightmare right now on this.

    One solution for Porsche could be to make the "S" versions of 997 strippers: no electric windows or electric seats, no rear seats, less sound insulation, no sunroof. That would knock out 100 - 150 lbs of dead weight without the need to hunt for more power from a naturally aspirated engine that doesn't have too much more stretch left in it.

    Re: "Boy, you've got to carry that weight..."

    Now that I've had a nigt to sleep on it, I'll take this thread for what it is...just speculation. We'll have to wait and see....I'm still hoping for 350hp base and 380hp S before I make any moves.
    If the GT3 just had rear seats.......


    Re: Autoweek : New Images

    thanks for the link! i haven't seen this interior pic before!

     
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