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    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    sdy284 said:I love how Europeans always resort to bashing Americans


    Nearly as much fun as strangling small furry animals.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    sdy284 said:
    Quote:
    JZ said:
    Quote:
    wtsnet said:
    Quote:
    dreamcar said:Wtsnet! YOU pouring oil on troubled waters ? Are you feeling well or going down with something serious?


    It wasn't me, it was my non-evil twin.

    Perhaps a pistol each, 10 paces, turn and fire? I'll get the popcorn.



    As enjoyable as that would be, I think Poindexter over there would win as 'ammo is in the blood' a lot of Americans.

    I would settle for an answer from someone who has the facts!!

    Cheers,

    JZ



    I love how Europeans always resort to bashing Americans



    Yeah, JZ I'm not sure why you felt the need to toss that "thick Americans" thing in there. I've actually been quite successful with my recent diet.

    But seriously, no need for random slurs about people you've not met.

    mcdelaug

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    i mean honestly, nothing was said about your country & its people, so I dont know why you feel you have to comment on ours

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Sensitive.

    Its a good sport, if not a little easy.

    You guys (Yanks) proclaim to lead the free world, so you gotta expect some stick.

    Anyhow. Its fun.....especially when he is so WRONG.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Calm down JZ. You're starting to get a little offensive, and giving us Brits a bad name. Opinion doesn't equal fact, no matter how loud you shout!

    I'll see if I can pop into an OPC today to gather some more information...

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    JZ said:
    You guys (Yanks) proclaim to lead the free world, so you gotta expect some stick.

    Proclaim? If not for the Yanks, you'd be writing that sentence in German my friend.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    Quote:
    JZ said:
    You guys (Yanks) proclaim to lead the free world, so you gotta expect some stick.

    Proclaim? If not for the Yanks, you'd be writing that sentence in German my friend.


    I think lots of people helped with that, including the Russians! Joint effort. However the USA did make quite a lot of money on the back of it...

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    A brain surgeon makes a lot of money taking a tumor out of your head. That doesn't detract from the fact that he saved you life.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    I don't think that's quite the same thing!
    Unless you're an expert on post-war history, I'd not shout my mouth off.

    And this is a Porsche Forum. Thanks.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    wtsnet said:
    Calm down JZ. You're starting to get a little offensive, and giving us Brits a bad name. Opinion doesn't equal fact, no matter how loud you shout!

    I'll see if I can pop into an OPC today to gather some more information...



    Thanks for the effort wtsnet. We all need to avoid the nation bashing. I do like the debate about the Boxster/Boxster S suspension but this is really not a subjective question and I'm sure it will be answered shortly with some definitive factual and objective information. No need to get too defensive or offensive about anything.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Quote:
    wtsnet said:
    Calm down JZ. You're starting to get a little offensive, and giving us Brits a bad name. Opinion doesn't equal fact, no matter how loud you shout!

    I'll see if I can pop into an OPC today to gather some more information...



    Thanks for the effort wtsnet. We all need to avoid the nation bashing. I do like the debate about the Boxster/Boxster S suspension but this is really not a subjective question and I'm sure it will be answered shortly with some definitive factual and objective information. No need to get too defensive or offensive about anything.


    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Agreed! Let's get back to the original purpose of talking about Porsche's. I'm sorry to all for not ignoring the personal and national attacks.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:We all need to avoid the nation bashing. I do like the debate about the Boxster/Boxster S suspension but this is really not a subjective question and I'm sure it will be answered shortly with some definitive factual and objective information. No need to get too defensive or offensive about anything.


    Well said. Couldn't agree more. I'm running a little behind today, so I'm not sure I'm going to make it to the OPC. But I'll try to get some info soon. I agree it's an interesting question (re: suspension) I agree.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    You guys take nation bashing way too seriously.

    It is not Americas fault that every year 150,000 people
    in England accidently pump gasolene into their diesel cars, or that most Americans believe that going one hundred miles per hour will surely send them to hell.

    Its not the German peoples fault that their cars use pretty paint jobs to cover defective software or that Italians invented rust and then licensed it to them.

    Chill, its just about cars.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Thanks for the effort wtsnet. We all need to avoid the nation bashing. I do like the debate about the Boxster/Boxster S suspension but this is really not a subjective question and I'm sure it will be answered shortly with some definitive factual and objective information. No need to get too defensive or offensive about anything.



    Thanks to all the side-shows, I've lost track of what definitive factual and objective information is called for here, and I'm really disinclined to read some of the school-yard level stuff again. Anybody?

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    I think we were trying to determine who's Dad was biggest.
    Weren't we?

    Or was it to do with 987 suspension being different on the 2.7 to the 3.2S. Anyone have any ideas before I trek all the way to Poole? It's, like, a 45 minute drive!

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Thanks for jumping in fritz.

    The question is: is their a difference in the suspensions of the base Boxster vs the base Boxster S? We all know about the difference in brakes and wheel size, but are there any differences beyond that, such as in springs, shocks and swaybars, and if there is a difference, does that difference result in better handling performance for the Boxster S?

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Well does it really matter about the differences between the two Boxsters when they are without doubt the finest all round sports cars currently available at the price? I have a Boxster S but the 2.7 is equally fine. It might be a tad slower but does that make it a worse car? I really don't think so!

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    wtsnet said:
    I think we were trying to determine who's Dad was biggest.
    Weren't we?

    Or was it to do with 987 suspension being different on the 2.7 to the 3.2S. Anyone have any ideas before I trek all the way to Poole? It's, like, a 45 minute drive!


    Yeh, I got the "My dad can beat the crap out of your dad" bit.

    Save yourself the 90 min round trip, wtsnet.

    Front springs of non-PASM 997 and 997S are identical, but S sway bar is stiffer.

    Front springs and sway bars of PASM-equipped 997 and 997S are identical to each other, but stiffer than those of the non-PASM cars.

    Rear springs and sway bar of non-PASM 997S are both stiffer than those of non-PASM 997.

    Rear springs and sway bars of PASM-equipped 997S and 997 are identical to each other, and stiffer than those of non-PASM cars.

    Confused yet?

    The above infos are facts, the information below is guesswork:

    Suspension damper tuning probably is "sportier" both at the front and rear for the S than for the non-S for the non-PASM cars.

    Damper tuning of PASM cars is, by definition, variable.
    By virtue of the general fact of life that "You get what you pay for", and the fact that we are talking about sports cars, I would assume that the suspension tuning of the S is broadly sportier than that of the non-S, and in the hands of the same consistently competent driver would allow the S to perform slightly better than the non-S.

    I don't expect for one second that this will help settle the argument between 987 and 987S, but if I may quote the Doobie Brothers (I think?):
    "If you can't be with the one you love, then love the one you're with",
    or:
    Be satisfied with what you've got without getting uptight about it.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Well does it really matter about the differences between the two Boxsters when they are without doubt the finest all round sports cars currently available at the price? I have a Boxster S but the 2.7 is equally fine. It might be a tad slower but does that make it a worse car? I really don't think so!



    That's the attitude! Think positively.

    Life's too short for anything else.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    I don't expect for one second that this will help settle the argument between 987 and 987S



    I'm sure you're right, but thanks anyway.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Its not the German peoples fault that their cars use pretty paint jobs to cover defective software or that Italians invented rust and then licensed it to them.



    Actually Jim, I think you got it the wrong way around. It's not so much a question of pretty paint being used to cover defective software. It's the crappy orange peel paint finish which causes the otherwise immaculate electronic hardware underneath to malfunction.

    And you don't seriously think we would pay patent license fees to Fiat for their rust know-how when we have been developed our own version to a much higher standard.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Road & Track test results:

    car skidpad slalom speed
    986 .91g 68.6 mph (18")
    986S .95g 71.6 mph (18")
    987 1.00g 73.9 mph (19"+ pasm)

    So, the 986S outperforms the 986 by a greater margin than the 987S outperforms the 986S. If that's not because the S has a better suspension set up, I'll eat my hat, photograph the meal and post the picture on this board.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    that was a 987S in my last post

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    [quoteI think lots of people helped with that, including the Russians! Joint effort. However the USA did make quite a lot of money on the back of it... ]



    I don't think Russia was ever true ally of the Brits back then.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    Eurospeed said:
    [quoteI think lots of people helped with that, including the Russians! Joint effort. However the USA did make quite a lot of money on the back of it... ]


    I don't think Russia was ever true ally of the Brits back then.


    Look, I don't want to get into an argument. I live with a Historian! The Russians were allies in the war pretty much for the same time as the Americans - from 1941. Depends if by 'true' you imply that America was better buddies with us than Russia, which is probably true, but all three were basically on the same side from 1941. Infact the US gave Russia cash and kit to help fight back against Hitler. Incidentally, loss of life during the war was about 25 million Russians (military and civilians) compared with approx 400 thousand American. America didn't get directly involved in the war until Pearl Harbor. Until then, support was by loans and kit, for which we had to open up and allow free trade to our Colonies. Hence the 'made a lot of money' comment. As far as I understand it, American saved our bacon more by the supply of goods and equipment than by direct action, by which I mean that it was the most bacon-saving factor!

    Popularly held belief, word of mouth, assumptions - these are not fact. People should not argue loudly and viciously if they are not absolutely certain of fact.

    War and politics are ugly things, perhaps not suited to these boards. History is in the past, but should be kept in mind as we look to the future.

    Anyway, lets get back to Porsche, and stop going OT.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    Road & Track test results:

    car skidpad slalom speed
    986 .91g 68.6 mph (18")
    986S .95g 71.6 mph (18")
    987 1.00g 73.9 mph (19"+ pasm)

    So, the 986S outperforms the 986 by a greater margin than the 987S outperforms the 986S. If that's not because the S has a better suspension set up, I'll eat my hat, photograph the meal and post the picture on this board.


    I'm certainly looking forward to either you or JZ eating some humble pie! I think you should BOTH apologise for being so mean to each other, particularly JZ, who has been most rude!

    I have to say that the above results are interesting, but inconclusive. Too many variables. However the opinion seems to be swinging in your favour. I haven't investigated yet. Jury is still out...

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Quote:
    wtsnet said:
    Quote:
    LowPolarMoment said:
    Road & Track test results:

    car skidpad slalom speed
    986 .91g 68.6 mph (18")
    986S .95g 71.6 mph (18")
    987 1.00g 73.9 mph (19"+ pasm)

    So, the 986S outperforms the 986 by a greater margin than the 987S outperforms the 986S. If that's not because the S has a better suspension set up, I'll eat my hat, photograph the meal and post the picture on this board.


    I'm certainly looking forward to either you or JZ eating some humble pie! I think you should BOTH apologise for being so mean to each other, particularly JZ, who has been most rude!

    I have to say that the above results are interesting, but inconclusive. Too many variables. However the opinion seems to be swinging in your favour. I haven't investigated yet. Jury is still out...

    If you'll scroll lback you'll see where I already apologized, but for those who may have missed it, I apologize and won't do it again.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    Ok, ok,

    I apologise too. I genuinly didn't mean any offence, and like most British people (although I am actually from Ireland [don't start] ) enjoy a bit of Nationality bashing.

    All in the best possible taste.

    SO back to the matter at hand.

    I picked up my new 987 yesterday. In a word, amazing and despite it being vandalised already (within 24 hours, but see other thread), it is truly everything I hoped for and more (although the fuel consumption could be better, but I'll work on that, especially at Pounds1.04/litre of 98Ron).

    Right, 987 vs 987S suspension.

    I still maintain my first and still current opinion. The suspension setup on the standrad 987/987S is the same. The differences come in PASM only.

    Rasons for this?

    1)Porsche make no shout about the standard suspension setup between 2.7 and S. They are very quick to point out EVERY other differnce between the two. This is backed up by no differnce between the 2 specs on the new 987 Product Information, freely available on Renntech.org

    2) I discussed at depth today with the Parts manager at my OPC (one of the finest and most concientious in the country IMHO) about this question. He agreed that there was a differnce between the 997 and 997S, but stated (and went and double checked) that there was no suspension differnce between the 987 and 987S unless PASM was ordered, and even then, both PASM cars would have the same setup.

    This si how I understand it and will stick by it until show documentary evidence to the contrary.!!!

    So there you have it IMO.

    And by the way, please don't let Hollywoods misinterpretation of WWII cloud any judgment as to who the real saviours of the day were in WW2. Just because the bloke in Austin Powers said so doesn't make it so!!

    Cheers,

    JZ

    Deepest apologies for poor spelling, but am in a rush.

    Re: 987 boxster vs 987 boxster S

    JZ, I'm wondering then if there might be a difference in USA cars but not in ROW cars. I just got off the phone with someone who will let me photocopy and post here the exact spring rates on the 987 and 987S. They're different. Rather than tell you what they are, I'll try to scan them so I can post the actual PORSCHE document though it won't be before tomorrow.

     
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