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    Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    I just tested both the manual and tiptronic 997 Turbo today.

    First thing: the exhaust ... I really have no words for this ... what a fücking sissy sound! I do come from a Europipe Model 800 exhaust so my judgement may be a bit 'cloudy' but Porsche really needs to take care of that. I can somehow understand that they are trying to attract as many MB buyers as possible but they should have had a sports exhaust available from the launch. The current exhaust is simply ridiculous.

    Both cars were equipped with Sports Chrono and the manual had the short shifter (neither cars had PCCB).
    The short shifter takes some getting used to (especially first gear) but after a while it's something you really want on your car.

    Since I wasn't able to do a lot of curvy roads I will simply stick to performance. Here are some numbers, all done with a chrono in my hand so please excuse me if the numbers don't respond to the official times or times put down by others. At least it's all done by the same driver so on that note it does make a good comparison.
    Outside temperature: between 32 and 35 degrees Celsius
    Fuel tank: full on all occasions
    A/C: on
    Drivers weight: 95kg

    996TT cab 500HP Sportec 6speed:
    0-100kph: 4.45 to 4.81 sec
    0-160kph: 9.33 to 9.48 sec
    80-120kph: 3.20 in 3rd - 5.73 in 5th - 7.53 in 6th
    400m: 12.418 sec (done at the strip, official time)

    997TT coupe - 6speed:
    0-100kph: /
    0-160kph: 8.87 sec
    80-120kph: 3.02 in 3rd

    997TT coupe - Tiptronic:
    0-100kph: 4.47 sec (no LC)
    0-160kph: 8.58 sec (LC) to 8.70 sec (no LC) (*)
    80-120kph: 2.79 sec in 3rd

    (*): When trying to perform the launch control or torque braking something MAY have gone wrong: I tried to do this using various settings (PSM on and off, sports mode on and off) but the engine NEVER exceeded 2500-2750 rpm. As far as I know it should rev up to 4000 rpm. So the LC acceleration may not be accurate at all Can someone please let me know what needs to be done exactly to perform such a launch?

    I'm aware that I haven't provided a whole lot of information but I still hope it can be of interest to you.

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Nice report.

    For another data point, my '02 996 Turbo with the mods listed below did the 6th gear 80-120 kph run in 6.0 sec (temp 34C).

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Do you happen to have the 0-100 kph times for the 6 speed?

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    I think that the turbo sounds good and that people are over exadurating how bad it sounds. What happened with the 0-100 kph for the 6 speed?

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    nh13 said:
    I think that the turbo sounds good and that people are over exadurating how bad it sounds. What happened with the 0-100 kph for the 6 speed?



    I agree. I think it sounds fine. Pehaps a sport exhaust will be more exciting to some people (myself included), the current exhaust is quite satisfactory for daily driving.

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    If they come out with a sport exhaust i wounder if it will change the sound that much. Has anyone bought the sport exhaust on their 996? What did you think about it?

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    The torque/brake launching method does NOT raise rpm to 4000 rpm, I'm sorry I once had a typo stating that.
    You get around up to 3000 rpm and this is enough for a good launch. It really requires a bit of experience, you just have to try several times. Personally, I don't do it anymore, it is pointless since it would be necessary only at stop lights and I really don't want to race anybody, especially not in the city. As soon as the car catches some speed/boost, it moves pretty fast.
    I really don't understand why Porsche didn't keep the setup they used on some early pre-launch cars but...

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    GREAT Report Rami!

    So what happens when you're braking and building revs at a standstill? It will only rev to approx. 2750 rpm?

    In the old days with my auto Muscle cars I used to brake w/ my left foot and nail the throttle w/ my right producing huge burnouts. This kinda thing was real popular when I was in High School. I've even done this a few times w/ RWD rental cars. Is this basically the same method for the turbo tip launch? Aside from lots of tire smoke of course. Do you get any wheel spin before you let off the brake? Or is this approx 2750 rpm limit while braking & throttle intended to stop any pre launch wheel spin?

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Regarding the 'power brake' launching tech; apply firm brake pressure, start squeezing the throttle, as the torque converter reaches it's maximum internal stall release the brakes and floor it!
    This is limited by the 'stall' built into the torque converter, usually no more than 2500-3000 rpm. Several factors determine the stall in a TC, diameter being the formost as well as internal turbine angle and pitch in the TC. You can build a TC to deliver up to 6500 rpm stall, but this would be no fun to drive on the street.
    In short, I wouldn't recommend this technique on a 130k car, you'll only wear your brakes and eventually burn out the converter.

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    rami, apart from these numbers, how did the 997TT felt? Did it felt much faster than your 996TT? Sometimes numbers don't do justice to some cars.
    I drove several E39 M5 with 400Hp and a many RS4 with 380Hp to 450hp.
    The 380Hp rs4 always felt much , MUCH, faster then 400Hp M5, although both have similar accelaration numbers.

    J.Seven

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Test-drove a 997 TT manual with Sport Chrono today. Here's a little video of a rolling start from 80km/h (6th gear) to... The camera let go before I did... ;-)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elBhiczHq04

    BTW, you can see the 'overboost-arrow' staying on for more than 10 seconds.

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    pierre said:
    Test-drove a 997 TT manual with Sport Chrono today. Here's a little video of a rolling start from 80km/h (6th gear) to...



    Were you accelerating on a level surface? I guess there was a passenger with you.

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    Were you accelerating on a level surface? I guess there was a passenger with you.



    Yes, it was level, maybe very slightly downwards at the beginning, definitely not upwards.
    I was alone in the car (82kg), no luggage at all, tank slightly more than half full. I floored it fully and let go at about 250.

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    pierre said:

    Yes, it was level, maybe very slightly downwards at the beginning, definitely not upwards.
    I was alone in the car (82kg), no luggage at all, tank slightly more than half full. I floored it fully and let go at about 250.



    I ask only because my unscientific timing method shows a 80-120 time of around 7.5 seconds.

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    I ask only because my unscientific timing method shows a 80-120 time of around 7.5 seconds.



    6th speed only. This is also why the boost pressure is at max almost all of the time. Still doesn't explain the longer overboost function. Can somebody with MANUAL confirm that the overboost sign disappears after 10 seconds full throttle???

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    RC, that WAS a MANUAL, and the overboost sign did NOT disappear after 10 seconds. I did several tests to check this, and not once did the sign disappear before I went off the throttle.

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    pierre said:
    RC, that WAS a MANUAL, and the overboost sign did NOT disappear after 10 seconds. I did several tests to check this, and not once did the sign disappear before I went off the throttle.



    This is what I'm wondering about because I asked this question before and several owners, Tip AND manual, claimed that the overboost sign disappears after 10 seconds. Strange. Maybe a european thing? CF's car has the same "anomaly", it is Tip.

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    RC said:

    6th speed only. This is also why the boost pressure is at max almost all of the time.



    I think I read that a magazine tested the 997 Turbo 6-speed in a 6th gear 80-120 run and recorded something between 5.2 and 5.5 seconds. There was recently a post on this forum about this.

    FWIW, timing off the video presented here shows a slower time.

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    I think I read that a magazine tested the 997 Turbo 6-speed in a 6th gear 80-120 run and recorded something between 5.2 and 5.5 seconds. There was recently a post on this forum about this.

    FWIW, timing off the video presented here shows a slower time.



    The problem may be speedo accuracy. I did a GPS run with my car and at 70 kph on the speedo, the real speed was 65 kph. At 80 kph, the real speed was 75 kph. Maybe the 5 kph difference already have an impact on performance because if you look very closely at the video, the boost pressure increases slowly and then suddenly goes up to 1.2 bar and stays there.

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:The problem may be speedo accuracy.



    Could be, but do we know what measuring device (speedo versus GPS) the magazine(s) used?

    I timed my 996 Turbo 80-120 indicated and it ran right at 6 seconds (34c outside air temperature).

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    First of all sorry about the 0-100kph for the 6-speed, I kinda screwed up with the chrono and never recorded that time

    Ah, thx for clearing that out RC! Then I can say that the torque braking DID work after all. The engine revs up to around 2700rpm and then you blast away there was virtually no spin Stradale. I did find that the take off with LC was more intoxicating than a 'normal' start. Altho it might not be very healthy for the clutch I will have to put some restraints to myself so that I won't use it too often (I absolutely LOVE accelerating at traffic lights).

    To be honest I can not say it felt REALLY faster than my 500HP 996TT J.Seven. Altho the sound might be a factor here. My car has an intoxicating sound and that may have some impact on how fast it actually feels.

    Concerning the 10 second overboost: the tip version just kept on 'overboosting' BUT the manual didn't in my case. After 10 seconds the little arrow dissapeared.

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Pierre, how did it feel to you compared to your 996TT Sportec beast?

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    pierre said:
    RC, that WAS a MANUAL, and the overboost sign did NOT disappear after 10 seconds. I did several tests to check this, and not once did the sign disappear before I went off the throttle.



    Pierre: Did you try the one in Lausanne? I went for a drive with it the other day but forgot to look at this. I was too concentrated on has fast the next bend was comming towards me
    If it wasn't that one, I could go and test it again and look at the overboost...

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    I think I read that a magazine tested the 997 Turbo 6-speed in a 6th gear 80-120 run and recorded something between 5.2 and 5.5 seconds. There was recently a post on this forum about this.

    FWIW, timing off the video presented here shows a slower time.



    The problem may be speedo accuracy. I did a GPS run with my car and at 70 kph on the speedo, the real speed was 65 kph. At 80 kph, the real speed was 75 kph. Maybe the 5 kph difference already have an impact on performance because if you look very closely at the video, the boost pressure increases slowly and then suddenly goes up to 1.2 bar and stays there.



    Is it possible, that the overboost display function has some minor bugs? That's what I have heard.

    AM

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    I have read an article about the new BMW 3-series coupé.
    More on German Car Fans

    It seems that BMW is going a similar way as Porsche by networking the whole car. The automatic tranny and the engine are networked with the control computer. The new automatic shifts and reacts in 100 ms, that is very fast. Also downshifting from 6th to second gear can be done in 100ms and in parallel the engine gets a signal to higher the rev from e.g. 1400 rpm to 5300 rpm.

    It seams that the BMW automatic is faster then the manual.
    If the manufacturer continues to improve the automatic further maybe we don't need PDK and manual in the future.

    AM

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    Gnil said:
    Pierre: Did you try the one in Lausanne?



    Yep. Had it for 3 hours yesterday. More comments when I'll find some time. Basically, I won't let go my current Stage 3 996 for the new one.

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    I have read an article about the new BMW 3-series coupé.
    More on German Car Fans

    It seems that BMW is going a similar way as Porsche by networking the whole car. The automatic tranny and the engine are networked with the control computer. The new automatic shifts and reacts in 100 ms, that is very fast. Also downshifting from 6th to second gear can be done in 100ms and in parallel the engine gets a signal to higher the rev from e.g. 1400 rpm to 5300 rpm.

    It seams that the BMW automatic is faster then the manual.
    If the manufacturer continues to improve the automatic further maybe we don't need PDK and manual in the future.

    AM



    Maybe we wrote off the traditional auto tranny too early. Auto tranny producers are hitting back - not accepting the anticipated victory of PDK

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    I have read an article about the new BMW 3-series coupé.
    More on German Car Fans

    It seems that BMW is going a similar way as Porsche by networking the whole car. The automatic tranny and the engine are networked with the control computer. The new automatic shifts and reacts in 100 ms, that is very fast. Also downshifting from 6th to second gear can be done in 100ms and in parallel the engine gets a signal to higher the rev from e.g. 1400 rpm to 5300 rpm.

    It seams that the BMW automatic is faster then the manual.
    If the manufacturer continues to improve the automatic further maybe we don't need PDK and manual in the future.

    AM



    BTW: I read a recent AMS article comparing the BMW 330d with manual and auto tranny. Guess which car was quicker 0-200kph

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Sorry Adnan but, 335i is slower as automatic then as manual.
    0-100km/h is 5.7s for automatic and 5.5s for manual. And manual is 1s faster in 0-200km/h then automatic.
    Also very important issue-weight distribution-manual is 50/50(front/rear) and automatic is 51/49 so, not so balanced...
    But, 335i engine is pulling nicelly from 900rpm!! And this is very nice thing indeed!

    Re: Tested: 997TT Tip vs 6-Speed

    Top speed is 322-324 km/h on digital speedo.

    It is electronically limited at 6400 rpm.

    Tested by myself on several occasions.

     
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