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    X51 review

    JMShrink wanted to know about Power kit,

    This is taken from the Excellence article review of Club Car with X51. Not sure it I posted this here before, sorry if I did.
    :



    With the fluids properly warmed and a long onramp just ahead, it's time to put the X51 engine through its paces. In second gear and at full throttle, acceleration is strong - but then the same can be said for any Carrera S and even the 3.6-liter Carrera. The latest 3.8-liter 997s are powerful enough leave one wondering if there's much development potential left in the normally-aspirated flat six.

    X51 answers that question convincingly, with a 997 Carrera S-like powerband that's as linear as it is strong. It offers good torque from just off idle all the way up to redline, but it can't match the GT3's top-end fervor. It feels slightly more "workhorse" to the high-strung GT3's thoroughbred. But, in a 911 more likely to be used every day than most GT3s will be, that's a good thing. The X51 3.8 offers tractable power everywhere, with plenty of good noises and enough zing to keep things interesting as it reaches for redline.

    Does it feel faster than a plain Carrera S? Yes and no. No because it's tough to feel a seven percent power increase in a car that weighs more than 3,000 pounds and claims more than 350 horsepower. But informal roll-on tests in third and fourth gears later in the day saw the Club Coupe pull away from the 2005 997S slowly, but surely. It was exactly the difference you'd expect from a 26 hp/11 lb-ft advantage. Importantly, X51 gives up nothing across its powerband to the regular 3.8. Though its peak power and torque figures come 600 and 900 rpm later, the X51's powerband never dips below the 3.8's. Even from 1500-2000 rpm, it has a useful, 15 lb-ft advantage.

    People after the best horsepower-per-dollar equation might be happier spending their $17,000 on the aftermarket, but X51 has two edges that must be considered: (1) it maintains the factory's full warranty and (2) there's a sweetness to this engine that can't be quantified. The throttle response in the X51-equipped 2006 997S was plain superior to the 2005 997S we tried. The revised motor sings through its powerband with an alacrity one wouldn't know the standard engine is missing - unless he or she tried an X51. Gear after gear, pull after pull to its 7300-rpm redline, the X51 engine is considerably more satisfying than the normal 3.8 - which itself is no slouch.

    Re: More thoughts

    Quote:
    taffy said:
    So what are we saying here .........??

    That the 3.6 is crap.........i don't think so...

    The brakes are fine porsche don't do bad stoppers.....

    The power is fine or it was until the C2S appeared....

    On any given road bar a straight one it would take a well driven C2S to leave the 3.6 trailing and embarrassed......

    Everyone makes a decision based on budget and personal preferences ........life would be sooooo boring if we were all the same and thought the same........



    Shoot, then why did Porsche even bother releasing the 997??..... Considering that the 996 was perfectly "fine"....

    Things continue to improve, as does performance. Only a gas crisis or more stringent emmissions laws will stem that tide.

    My 993 was "fine", but my 997 is a hell of alot better performer. But it cost me.

    It's really just a matter of how much it takes to make you happy, and what you're willing to pay for it, that's all. There's no right or wrong here. Value received for value paid. Simple.

    My only gripe was the notion of not needing or using the benefits the S offered. The act of turning the key and driving off means you're using the benefits. It's just a matter of whether they're benefits you feel like paying for.

    Buy what satisfies your needs, I don't think I ever said anything contradictory to that, nor did anybody ever say that the 3.6 is crap (just that the 3.8 is better... )

    Re: More thoughts

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Quote:
    taffy said:
    So what are we saying here .........??

    That the 3.6 is crap.........i don't think so...

    The brakes are fine porsche don't do bad stoppers.....

    The power is fine or it was until the C2S appeared....

    On any given road bar a straight one it would take a well driven C2S to leave the 3.6 trailing and embarrassed......

    Everyone makes a decision based on budget and personal preferences ........life would be sooooo boring if we were all the same and thought the same........



    Shoot, then why did Porsche even bother releasing the 997??..... Considering that the 996 was perfectly "fine"....

    Things continue to improve, as does performance. Only a gas crisis or more stringent emmissions laws will stem that tide.

    My 993 was "fine", but my 997 is a hell of alot better performer. But it cost me.

    It's really just a matter of how much it takes to make you happy, and what you're willing to pay for it, that's all. There's no right or wrong here. Value received for value paid. Simple.

    My only gripe was the notion of not needing or using the benefits the S offered. The act of turning the key and driving off means you're using the benefits. It's just a matter of whether they're benefits you feel like paying for.

    Buy what satisfies your needs, I don't think I ever said anything contradictory to that, nor did anybody ever say that the 3.6 is crap (just that the 3.8 is better... )



    I wasn't around when the 997s were introduced, but would like to know what the reasoning was to continue a 3.6 in the new model line. Was it the success of the Boxster S versus the Boxster? Or too many 3.6 engines laying around the Stuttgart environs?

    Why not just deliver the 997 with a 3.8, and make the S an improvement of the aesthetics and bigger brakes (as in the 996 C4S)?

    If this has been thoroughly discussed, I'll search later to find the threads...

    I agree, things progress and more is almost always better (except weight).

    Re: More thoughts

    My point was this.........the 996 was fine and everybody was happy as there was no other option unless you bought a GT3 which was considerably faster but more of a compromise.....then the 997 carrera came along but with 2 options and to me it seems that a few people are now dismissing the 997 3.6 as the inferior model when in fact it is still a fantastically capable machine when compared with other manufacturers offerings.

    Porsche are now more than ever profit obsessed and continue to dilute the exclusivity of the brand by adding more models.Hopefully they can continue to keep the quality issues in check, but already there are RMS issues caused because of the cost cutting methods which in turn have increased Porsches profits.

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Hello 911godspeed.

    I must get a digital camera to show off the 997+BBS RS-GT. They should be on the car early April.

    As I have no Porsche dealer in the city, I had to read very widely everything (January 2005)I could find on the 997, and then hope that 'PASM+18in' wheels would handle the local roads best.

    I have not read of any '997-standard suspension-18in' comparison with '997-PASM-18in' over well described roads. The latter is a mildly unusual choice.

    My better-informed and now experienced notions, are that on some roads the 'PASM-18in' would be a nicer combination, and on others the 'standard-18in'--- reference the many replys in the 3 threads i referenced in the last [bigger] reply from me in this thread.

    Remember that the PASM comes with -10mm/lower springs, so it looks better, but/and the springs ARE firmer and the dampers cannot entirely remove that over cracked roads e.g.expansion joints. [Try a 'PASM-19in' and 'standard-18in' over a few cracked/bumpy roads if you get the chance.]

    I would love to drive a 'standard-18in', but likely won't---my 997 is the only one in Saskatoon (250,000 people---no Porsche dealer).

    Either version of the 997 is a great car ------ read Pete Stout's advice in one of the threads I mentioned --- I think it is the "rear bushings -------" thread. And ---- the PASM 'idiosyncrasies' we talk of in those 3 threads are VERY minor to most of us, and not even noticed by many readers of this web-site, and the 2006 997 may have had them 'fixed' as Pete notes in the Club Sport reportof the latest EXCELLENCE.

    Cheers


    KiwiCanuck

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Hello 69bossnine,

    You have an interesting personality -----

    Who amongst the replys in this thread are 'insecurely taking aim at 997S owners'? Apart from you, who are jumping on any few words that suit your argument, the replys have all been interesting. And my reply gave clear objective reasons for choosing the '997-PASM-18in'.

    I WISH I had really nice roads all around me, and I would have the S ---- as I would also appreciate the little extra engine. Did you get that?! But, the 19 standard wheels I would lose, as I find them quite unattractive.

    Now I will not ever repond to one of your e-mails again, in this thread or any other ---

    Cheers


    KiwiCanuck

    Re: More thoughts

    Taffy is correct. So much of our perception of a vehicle is created by a manufacturer's marketing. The 3.6L Carreras are magnificent cars in their own right and probably 95% as capable as the 3.8L Carreras in the hands of the average Porsche driver.

    I have consciously chosen to purchase a C4S because the subtle differences and improvements in that model are part of what gets me excited about buying a new Porsche.

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Quote:
    KiwiCanuck said:
    Now I will not ever respond to one of your e-mails again, in this thread or any other ---




    Ouch, that's a little harsh, non?

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Quote:
    KiwiCanuck said:
    Hello 69bossnine,

    You have an interesting personality -----

    Who amongst the replys in this thread are 'insecurely taking aim at 997S owners'? Apart from you, who are jumping on any few words that suit your argument, the replys have all been interesting. And my reply gave clear objective reasons for choosing the '997-PASM-18in'.

    I WISH I had really nice roads all around me, and I would have the S ---- as I would also appreciate the little extra engine. Did you get that?! But, the 19 standard wheels I would lose, as I find them quite unattractive.

    Now I will not ever repond to one of your e-mails again, in this thread or any other ---

    Cheers


    KiwiCanuck



    I agree - that's a little harsh. Chill dude, it's just a car!

    And, for reference, the plural of reply is "replies" not "replys".

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    I bought (waiting for) my 997S due to a financial windfall. I chose the 997S over the 997 for same reason I selected my VW GTI VR6 over the base golf. Had the windfall been big enough for a McLaren F1, I would have bought that. Was the 997S a rational financial decision, maybe, but probably not. But I am happy with my decision. I suspect most who are capable of purchasing a plain old 997 could, with a little effort, financial sacrafice,internal justification, patience, time, go the next model up if they really wanted to. But, we all factor in our various individual circumstances, needs, wants,to make our individual decisions. At the end of the day, if whatever you purchased makes you happy, you made the right decision. (I would be happier with a McLaren)

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Quote:
    JamesC said:
    Quote:
    KiwiCanuck said:
    Hello 69bossnine,

    You have an interesting personality -----

    Who amongst the replys in this thread are 'insecurely taking aim at 997S owners'? Apart from you, who are jumping on any few words that suit your argument, the replys have all been interesting. And my reply gave clear objective reasons for choosing the '997-PASM-18in'.

    I WISH I had really nice roads all around me, and I would have the S ---- as I would also appreciate the little extra engine. Did you get that?! But, the 19 standard wheels I would lose, as I find them quite unattractive.

    Now I will not ever repond to one of your e-mails again, in this thread or any other ---

    Cheers


    KiwiCanuck



    I agree - that's a little harsh. Chill dude, it's just a car!

    And, for reference, the plural of reply is "replies" not "replys".



    Yeah... a little harsh but I'm sure 69bossnine is ROFL!

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Quote:
    (ex)Chef_jmr said:
    Quote:
    KiwiCanuck said:
    Now I will not ever respond to one of your e-mails again, in this thread or any other ---




    Ouch, that's a little harsh, non?



    Yeah agreed, keep in mind we're typing this stuff in so there's no body language or voice intonations or gestures so you just have to imagine us all here having a nice time with a few beers talking cars. Though the language can get quite expressive (all if it TYPED)my bet is none of us are trying to make serious trouble for the other guy.

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    (ex)Chef_jmr said:
    Quote:
    KiwiCanuck said:
    Now I will not ever respond to one of your e-mails again, in this thread or any other ---




    Ouch, that's a little harsh, non?



    Yeah agreed, keep in mind we're typing this stuff in so there's no body language or voice intonations or gestures so you just have to imagine us all here having a nice time with a few beers talking cars. Though the language can get quite expressive (all if it TYPED)my bet is none of us are trying to make serious trouble for the other guy.



    True, that's why I find the use of punctuation and other forms of typiNg ArtiStry to be of the utmost importance... A good vocabulary doesn't hurt, either!

    Re: X51 review

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    JMShrink wanted to know about Power kit,

    This is taken from the Excellence article review of Club Car with X51. Not sure it I posted this here before, sorry if I did.
    :



    With the fluids properly warmed and a long onramp just ahead, it's time to put the X51 engine through its paces. In second gear and at full throttle, acceleration is strong - but then the same can be said for any Carrera S and even the 3.6-liter Carrera. The latest 3.8-liter 997s are powerful enough leave one wondering if there's much development potential left in the normally-aspirated flat six.

    X51 answers that question convincingly, with a 997 Carrera S-like powerband that's as linear as it is strong. It offers good torque from just off idle all the way up to redline, but it can't match the GT3's top-end fervor. It feels slightly more "workhorse" to the high-strung GT3's thoroughbred. But, in a 911 more likely to be used every day than most GT3s will be, that's a good thing. The X51 3.8 offers tractable power everywhere, with plenty of good noises and enough zing to keep things interesting as it reaches for redline.

    Does it feel faster than a plain Carrera S? Yes and no. No because it's tough to feel a seven percent power increase in a car that weighs more than 3,000 pounds and claims more than 350 horsepower. But informal roll-on tests in third and fourth gears later in the day saw the Club Coupe pull away from the 2005 997S slowly, but surely. It was exactly the difference you'd expect from a 26 hp/11 lb-ft advantage. Importantly, X51 gives up nothing across its powerband to the regular 3.8. Though its peak power and torque figures come 600 and 900 rpm later, the X51's powerband never dips below the 3.8's. Even from 1500-2000 rpm, it has a useful, 15 lb-ft advantage.

    People after the best horsepower-per-dollar equation might be happier spending their $17,000 on the aftermarket, but X51 has two edges that must be considered: (1) it maintains the factory's full warranty and (2) there's a sweetness to this engine that can't be quantified. The throttle response in the X51-equipped 2006 997S was plain superior to the 2005 997S we tried. The revised motor sings through its powerband with an alacrity one wouldn't know the standard engine is missing - unless he or she tried an X51. Gear after gear, pull after pull to its 7300-rpm redline, the X51 engine is considerably more satisfying than the normal 3.8 - which itself is no slouch.


    Thanks MMD.

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Quote:
    GA997S said:
    Quote:
    JamesC said:
    Quote:
    KiwiCanuck said:
    Hello 69bossnine,

    You have an interesting personality -----

    Who amongst the replys in this thread are 'insecurely taking aim at 997S owners'? Apart from you, who are jumping on any few words that suit your argument, the replys have all been interesting. And my reply gave clear objective reasons for choosing the '997-PASM-18in'.

    I WISH I had really nice roads all around me, and I would have the S ---- as I would also appreciate the little extra engine. Did you get that?! But, the 19 standard wheels I would lose, as I find them quite unattractive.

    Now I will not ever repond to one of your e-mails again, in this thread or any other ---

    Cheers


    KiwiCanuck



    I agree - that's a little harsh. Chill dude, it's just a car!

    And, for reference, the plural of reply is "replies" not "replys".



    Yeah... a little harsh but I'm sure 69bossnine is ROFL!



    I could drop the infamous Rodney King quote in here, but I'd really rather not.

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Quote:
    Damian said:


    I could drop the infamous Rodney King quote in here, but I'd really rather not.



    I'll do it,

    "Can't we all just get no respect?"



    Sounds appropriate don't you think.

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Good grief... Sorry if I was too abrasive.... I can't judge sensitivity of fellow posters through the monitor.... I should change my signature to: "Taking me too seriously may result in headaches and mild nausea...."

    Taffy, at the risk of appearing to be argumentative, I would like to relate my take on the 996 statement you made, as it pertained to my perception and decision-making process.

    You said:
    Quote:
    My point was this.........the 996 was fine and everybody was happy as there was no other option unless you bought a GT3 which was considerably faster but more of a compromise.....then the 997 carrera came along but with 2 options and to me it seems that a few people are now dismissing the 997 3.6 as the inferior model when in fact it is still a fantastically capable machine when compared with other manufacturers offerings.



    Actually, when I was finally of a mind that I wanted a 911 to drive part-time, it was the power alone that really was slowing me down at taking the big plunge into a brand-new 996. I couldn't justify that much dough, for not quite enough go, when all other manufacturers were ramping up horsepower so dramatically. My subconscious told me that I'd do well to wait, as Porsche would surely have to follow suit with the rest of the automotive industry, and pump some more steroids into the 911. Not only that, I simply wanted something a bit stronger than the 996, it just wasn't quite sealing the deal when I test drove it. So, I decided to buy a clean low-mile 993 to quench my thirst for a 911, knowing that it would not depreciate (it didn't), and WAIT...

    I've gotta pat myself on the back for the brilliance of that plan. The 993 was a joy of its own merits, and when the 997S hit the cover of my new Car & Driver, I then realized the little voice in my head telling me to hold-out, was a wise little voice.

    My first test drive of the 997S was the clincher. There was the power I was looking for. Yes, just a bit more, but in all the right places, and enough to effectively put me into the "buy" mode of a brand-new car.

    So I, for one, was a person who was not inclined to buy a 996 in its state of tune, but did take the plunge with the S.

    Don't know how many more were like me, but that's my boring-as-hell story.

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    No offence taken..........whatever 911 people buy it will be a fantastic drive,but for me extra power is not of interest unless it has the sort of punch that the Turbo provides .......

    Re: More thoughts

    Thanks Taffy for the thoughtful and nice memo ----

    Amongst other things you said: "that a few people are now dismissing the 997 3.6 as the inferior model when in fact it is still a fantastically capable machine when compared with other manufacturers offerings."

    This thread has been spoilt by a few of us who have effectively done the above "-----". Despite good points made by the 3.6L owners ----- my original Reply was on page 1 of this thread ------ we 3.6L types have been made out to be either not car-guys, or not able to afford the S. Which, by the way, was the original premise of the starter of this thread. Not pleasant or appropriate ----

    A common argument of those effectively 'chastising' us for selecting the 3.6L has been that the extra power is ALWAYS the deciding issue, so why not the S?. And that opinion has been forcefully and repeatedly made by some ---- Paul Frere, for one, does not agree.

    I have made a number of useful points, throughout this thread, including saying that if I lived where the routes to many interesting places involved roads which were European-smooth, Wales-smooth (those photos in the Porsche Mags are SO inviting) I would have likely bought the S ---but not with standard wheels ---- have seen much nicer ones.

    It is extraordinary that this thread has become SO popular ---- and I do not really know why. It has generated some 'heat'--------

    I certainly qualify as a 'car-guy' ----- 8 years in an NSX and now Carrera qualify, as well as 50 (yep!) of driving the best cars I could afford, since 14 years-old in NZ --- and I can afford what I want.

    I love you all ---- well mostly --- Thanks Taffy

    Cheers KiwiCanuck

    Re: More thoughts

    When it all comes down to it, do you really care what a bunch of people you never met think about what you what you chose to buy. I could give a flying F what any of you think (no offense). You all won the cosmic lottery even being able to contemplate the question. Add to that bit of luck, you all have enough disposable income to waste on a car. Don't worry be happy, I will be...in about a month.

    Re: More thoughts

    Yeah, as long as you're happy with your baby what else really matters! Again, I believe every model Porsche makes is to be highly respected. We are all very fortunate to be able to have such an incredible car- many will only dream...

    Enjoy and be happy- life is too long (or short)...

    Cheers!


    Re: More thoughts

    Quote:
    SVNSVN said:
    Yeah, as long as you're happy with your baby what else really matters! Again, I believe every model Porsche makes is to be highly respected. We are all very fortunate to be able to have such an incredible car- many will only dream...

    Enjoy and be happy- life is too long (or short)...

    Cheers!





    Seconded!

    Re: More thoughts

    Quote:
    KiwiCanuck said:
    Thanks Taffy for the thoughtful and nice memo ----

    Amongst other things you said: "that a few people are now dismissing the 997 3.6 as the inferior model when in fact it is still a fantastically capable machine when compared with other manufacturers offerings."

    KiwiCanuck



    I just want to chime in that the 3.6 is by no means "inferior." It's frankly stuuupid to say stuff like that, it's like saying Boxster isn't a real Porsche.

    I think my thoughts have morphed since I remember vividly my dealer guy wanting to sell me a car and was a little shocked that I wanted the S. He had some non-S already on the lot or arriving any day (or could have my order in a short time). Getting the S would take 6 months at the time.

    Anyway, he was a little "shocked" (overstated) and asked me, "What are YOU going to DO? TRACK the car?"

    So that's where I got the idea reinforced that S is the car guy's specialty car because Porsche made it, and advertises it to race (yet won't warrenty it for racing ).

    EVERYBODY knows the differences in the two can't be sanely appreciated on the street. But still at the OFFICE to some people the S is the more "serious" of the cars. The non-S is different that way, BUT by no means inferior (except to idiiots).

    So what does the distinction mean in non-idioot people's minds? I guess they think S is for amateur weekend racers and the non-S is for "normal" street use.

    Re: More thoughts

    O.K... Inferior isn't the best way to politely describe any Porsche but I guess I'm an [censored] to think Porsche improved the flat-6 when they designed the new 3.8L. Why would they do that?


    Why be afraid to state the truth? In fact the S is superior in handling, braking, and acceleration. The Base is superior in ride comfort and you save allot of dough. The Carerra S is the SPORT model. The Carrera is for those who don't care to have the extra power, handling, and bigger brakes. Doesn't mean you're not a car guy. Who would prefer the Carrera over the Carrera S if they cost the same? Money has to be a factor in the decision for most. Sure some want the softer ride but you don't have to push the SPORT button every time you get in the car. I've used mine twice in three months and I love the ride in normal mode. If that's not enough, get the 18" wheels on the S. Porsche matches power and handling very well in any given model. They took the Carrera, added power then paralleled the power with improved handling and braking and called it a Carrera S. Good job Porsche. Why do some feel the need to defend their decision? I wouldn't.

    Someone get me a violin... 69bossnine's signature fits well here.

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Okay..here is why I bought a Non-S. I drove the 2 cars back to back and my butt couldn't feel the difference in power. On the street the non-S brakes are exceptional, you don't need more. A also liked the feel and sound of the 3.6 better than the "S". I also read about the issues related to PASM and opted for the "steel" suspension. Now before you say I'm not a car guy, I need to tell you I have been racing SCCA at the National level for the past 11 years. If you want to brag about your red brakes and the couple 10ths in the quarter mile feel free. The standard Carrera has more than enough performance for the street. For any of you that do not race, trust me when I say you will never use the base car to 100% of its potential on the street. Look at the specs provided by Porsche the standard C2 Coupe 6 speed is the second fastest 997 built. Tell me if I'm wrong here but I think the 2 cars are close enough that a well driven Carrera will beat a moderately well driven "S" any day. A car that does 177 and 0-6 in 4.8 seconds is fine with me...Oh yea, the $10,000 I saved isn't bad either.

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Quote:
    TommyGT said:
    Okay..here is why I bought a Non-S. I drove the 2 cars back to back and my butt couldn't feel the difference in power. On the street the non-S brakes are exceptional, you don't need more. A also liked the feel and sound of the 3.6 better than the "S". I also read about the issues related to PASM and opted for the "steel" suspension. Now before you say I'm not a car guy, I need to tell you I have been racing SCCA at the National level for the past 11 years. If you want to brag about your red brakes and the couple 10ths in the quarter mile feel free. The standard Carrera has more than enough performance for the street. For any of you that do not race, trust me when I say you will never use the base car to 100% of its potential on the street. Look at the specs provided by Porsche the standard C2 Coupe 6 speed is the second fastest 997 built. Tell me if I'm wrong here but I think the 2 cars are close enough that a well driven Carrera will beat a moderately well driven "S" any day. A car that does 177 and 0-6 in 4.8 seconds is fine with me...Oh yea, the $10,000 I saved isn't bad either.



    Well Car Guy, welcome to the board. I'm glad you're as happy with your car as I am with mine.
    Looking forward to reading your insight on the 911. All these 911's are great and we'd like to see some pics, option list, mods if any and how long you've owned it, first 911?, etc.

    Just remembered this... When I was test driving these things, I noticed that (both S & non-S) the cars with a few hundred miles felt much stronger than the ones with less than 50.

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Car is currently somewhere in the Atlantic...shipped 1/5/06. The car is a black on black Carrera with sport seats, Xenons, crests on the head rests, Bose, heated seats, guards red belts, and the new 19" 10 spoke sport wheels. This is Porsche #3 for me, years driving Corvettes until I bought a used 944. Once I drove it (slow as it was) I understood. I then bought a Boxster which I loved but being 6'1" I could never get enough seat travel to be comfortable. So I sprung for the Carrera. I have been torn with not getting the "S" and have reconsidered several times. My dealer even has a black "S" with sports seats unspoken for...tempting, but I keep reminding myself of the test drives I had. Cool as the "S" is I just liked the feel and sound of the Carrera better. I guess that is why all ice cream isn't vanilla.

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Hi TommyGT, Congrates on you recent purchase.

    My car too was shipped 1/5/06 and is to be in port 1/13/06. Have not yet gotten confirmation on being "in port". Delivery is expected some time later this coming week. And most likely yours too!

    My reason for not getting the "S": I did not like the ride 19" wheels even with PASM, and due to increased brake size, I would not be able to switch to 18" wheels, if I wanted to.

    As this is my first Porsche, I have alot to learn....and am looking forward to it.

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Hello TommyGT,

    That was a very interesting input --- "I drove the 2 cars back to back and my butt couldn't feel the difference in power.--- I also liked the feel and sound of the 3.6 better than the "S". I also read about the issues related to PASM and opted for the "steel" suspension --- I need to tell you I have been racing SCCA at the National level for the past 11 years. ---'

    This was a nice balance to those S owners who seem compelled to continually repeat the 'mantra' that the extra S power is everything.

    Your reasons are excellent, as were mine. We are category 3 who are car guys, and could afford the S, but have the 997.

    We need a new thread ----- there are enough 'category 3' colleagues here, who have made good points. The notion of the thread that started this was clearly wrong! We should all go back to page 1 and read what started this!!

    Cheers

    KiwiCanuck

    Re: S vs. non-S what does your decision mean?

    Quote:
    KiwiCanuck said:
    We are category 3 who are car guys, and could afford the S, but have the 997.






    There's a problem with making those sentiments public. I mean you can THINK you're JChrist and it's fine; becomes trouble as soon as you start telling people.

    No one at the "S" camp will believe you (e.g."I could afford the S but got the 997 on it'sown merits instead").

    So the third category is going to include people who make a troublesome claim. By making the claim, no matter how you suport it, does not necesarily make it convincing.

    Not trying to p*ss anyone off here. Just following the "logic" of Human nature.



     
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