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    Re: 997 vs 997 s

    chili said:
    Peace. Its the holidays.... Save it fot the new year.......

    Who, me?

    Man, I was just playing the role of a blue-bereted UN peacekeeper when I penned that post, trying to do my bit towards clearing up misunderstandings and promote world peace. After all, it is the season of good will to all men. (Oh God, now I've alienated the feminists and political correctness freaks out there! )

    No wonder this world is such a basket case.

    For the avoidance of doubt, this post was also not intended to provoke any kind of hostile reaction.

    Re: 997 vs 997 s

    997man said:
    most people who drive these cars do not stay above 80 or 90 mph very long for daily driving and probably are in the 40-60 mph range more often than not .

    I'm doing 80-90 most of the time on the highways.

    I'm doing the speed limit when there're pedestrians or in a residential neighborhood.

    So I'm either below 40 or above 60 most of the time. I'm afraid this might be typical (?) of Porsche drivers.


    Re: 997 vs 997 s

    fritz said:

    For the avoidance of doubt, this post was also not intended to provoke any kind of hostile reaction.

    Oh..., okay..., if you say so..., to me, what you said (or how you said it) seemed a little rude (a rudeness not the same kind as I may be interpreted to use in criticizing Porsche).

    Re: 997 vs 997 s

    Porsche-Jeck said:
    69bossnine said:
    Lastly, the next time someone brings up "0-60" times regarding high-performance 300+ h.p. machines, I'm going to figure a way to reach through my screen with a rubber chicken to slap that person across the head.

    ROFL I guess your rubber chicken will be very busy

    I say use a ""wet kipper"" ....


    Re: 997 vs 997 s

    If I could've gotten the "S" without the PASM, I would've gotten it instead of the base model. I added the 19" Carrera S wheels, the xenons, and the sport steering wheel. The normal setting of PASM is just too soft to me. The sport setting just isn't practical for regular road use where I live. I actually like the standard suspension of the base model; good blend of comfort, road feel, and sportiness.

    IMO, it's good for us to have at least the choices that we do. There is no right or wrong other than what is right or wrong for you..

    Re: 997 vs 997 s

    69bossnine always cuts to the center of a discussion and is insightful.

    Re: 997 vs 997 s

    Porsche-Jeck said:
    ROFL I guess your rubber chicken will be very busy
    If you want PASM/-20mm, Xenon, PCM the S is a non-brainer IMO. The difference in 0-60 times is of academic value only, but irrelevant in real life, unless you are willing to replace your clutch every other 2,000 miles or so. Torque/in-gear-acceleration and - most important - the feeling how the engine delivers the power should be the decisive factors in the engine department.

    Exactly, well put. It's not what the car accomplishes on a stopwatch, it's how the car feels and responds to your inputs. More muscle enhances the responsiveness at ANY speed, and the more speed you build, and the less advantage the gearing provides, the more the increased h.p. and torque factors in... However, if one must rely on quantitative data to compare two particular vehicles, at least choose a measurement with paramaters that are wide-enough to give you a decent picture/comparison. Yes, 90% of the time we're all probably "stuck" plodding around at speeds of 60mph or less. But using that unfortunate reality as a basis to use the 0-60mph sprint as your measuring stick is faulty logic. On paper, a few tenths 0-60 doesn't seem to be anything much at all. But seat-of-pants, the horsepower and torque required to pull a few tenths advantage in that short of a sprint is actually quite noteworthy and discernable to a performance oriented driver who's desiring all the punch he can get. In the world of drag racing, a half second in the quarter mile is HUGE, and definitely something I can easily feel feathering a throttle in traffic. You give me or take away 30 h.p., and believe me, I'll know it... Heck, I feel the difference in how my car accelerates when it's just a little bit humid outside.

    997man saidI used the 0-60 time because most people who drive these cars do not stay above 80 or 90 mph very long for daily driving and probably are in the 40-60 mph range more often than not .

    By this logic, any current 911 model is a rather ridiculous car to own. If we made our purchase decisions based on the urban-crawl and government speed limits, we would all be far better served driving Toyota Echos.

    C'mon now, you don't buy a 911 for the 80-90% of the time your hemmed-up in the human condition.... you buy such that you're always equipped for the remaining 10-20% of the time, those glorious country screams, those random flashes of empty road ahead or wide-open freeway onramp.. Your 911 isn't for the majority of the time, so take 0-60 and leave it for the cars it better applies to... commuter cars. Your 911 is one of the world's finest tools for being able to comfortably navigate the urban jungle, and then, at a moments notice, be ready to leap into fun and rewarding action when traffic clears, or you get off the beaten path, or you simply want to drive spiritedly and knife though the obstacles after a crappy day at work. As such a tool, the more power, the more handling, the more everything, so much the better. The only balance/compromise is keeping it liveable during the 80-90% of the time that you're hemmed-in, or not in an appropriate/safe setting.

    997man saidHis car is scary fast, too fast for a non-track car.

    Too fast?? What's that? Scary fast = alot of fun, unless you're scared of course...

    997man said
    As for your comment of reaching through the screen and smacking someone, you obviously have a big mental problem !

    Oh brother... Is this going to be a 2-rubber-chicken job??

    Re: 997 vs 997 s

    I think the new 911 S announced for this summer is a worthy upgrade, 370 hp

    Re: 997 vs 997 s

    I have a 997S and if I had to do it all over again, I would choose a base C2 with Xenons, after market Manthey 18 inch rims or the 19 inch GT3 wheels, Bose, sport seats, and sport exhaust.

    I would do this to specifically avoid PASM. The performance difference is negligible. This past summer, I chased my old 996 Targa around several laps of the track and I could not ever pull away from it - we were neck and neck throughout the short and the long straight. The 996 Targa is heavier and has less hp and torque than my 997S. I am convinced that the extra grunt and excitement that people say comes with the 'S' is due to the already mentioned Helmholtz resonator and the superior exhaust note of the 'S'. Also, you asked about the brakes - I am also convinced that the standard 911 brakes are excellent and more than sufficient. The major limitation will not be the brake caliper size, but rather the coefficient of friction on the tires.

    The 'S' is a clever way to give you very little of substance and sneak more money out of your pocket.

    The next step up for me over a C2 would be a GT3. I would avoid the 'S' (and definitely avoid the X51) altogether. (I would also avoid the biggest scam of all, namely, sport chrono. I wish I had Bossinine's proverbial rubber chicken for every time I heard how much it increases the performance of the car.)

    Re: 997 vs 997 s

    Silver Bullet said:

    The 'S' is a clever way to give you very little of substance and sneak more money out of your pocket.

    It's what mfgrs do with rich people. They give them some frills that increase their costs by 5% but they increase the price by 20%. That's what "luxury editions" are all about.

    Nevertheless the extra us$10K seemed like a good deal to me; I just spent it and never thought again about it.



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