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    Save Nurburgring

    Is this for real????? Sorry if repost.

    http://jalopnik.com/5684589/save-the-nurburgring

    J.Seven


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    I had heard romours of this to be honest, but the rumours were along the line "the cost of a lap on the Ring is due to double" and this could be the reason why!!!

    Funny thing is I had a dream a few weeks ago where I bought the Track, invited Rennteam down for a track day along with a few celebs.  Walter, HvS (for a bit of a shoot out), Chris Harris and a few others.  All giving PAX laps if needed....even MikeS came over.   Let it be said I did sleep in.


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    Re: Save Nurburgring

    Rich - glad you're not suffering from insomnia.... who else from R/T turned up..

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    John H:

    Rich - glad you're not suffering from insomnia.... who else from R/T turned up..

     

    John, it was possibly the best dream ever.    Perhaps full description in another thread.  Sabine was there to, serving drinks.


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    Re: Save Nurburgring

    That's just tragic  

    Why did they build a theme park and shopping mall at such great cost if it wasn't economically viable?  And false accounting just adds to the disaster

    The Nordschelife is unique - its future should never be jeopardised like this


    --


    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

    Rennteam signature photo 2.jpg


    Re: Save Nurburgring

     shocking 


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    Re: Save Nurburgring

    My gut says TF days and TD will survive.


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    Re: Save Nurburgring

    ResB:
    it was possibly the best dream ever.    Perhaps full description in another thread. 


    Hi Rich - nice dreams you have Smiley I'm looking forward to your full report + tons of pics in a separate thread Smiley

    The linked article does not contain any news nor does it tell the story in the right chronology, though the core message is correct.

    What happened ? Basically the Nürburgring GmbH (the legal entity which owns the 'Ring) invested about 350 mEUR into a kind of theme park to attract more visitors and to generate income in the motorsport off season.  Problem1: the business plan was based on crazy assumptions how much visitors would come. Problem 2: no private investors were willing to fund the project.

    Personally I wouldn't have invested a Cent neither because the business plan was not viable, the N'ring GmbH's senior management incapable and puppets of regional politicians. 

    As the N'Ring GmbH is publicly owned (majority in the hands of the State Rheinland-Pfalz) and as the Prime Minister (Governor) of Rheinland Pfalz "needed" a prestige project the plans were not buried but taxpayers' money abused to fund the venture. At the same time the regional politicians made the public believe that no tax money would be needed and they presented some so called "private investors" (actually kind of strawmen without investing serious money or taking any entrepreneurial risks).

    At some point the entire story became public and the Finance Minister of Rheinland Pfalz (Chairman of the N'Ring supervisory board) and the N'Ring CEO + other senior managers had to go.

    All this came to late for a U-turn as the buildings, the roller coaster etc. have been built meanwhile.

    Even worse the politicians decided it would be a good idea to rent out the 'Ring and the theme park to ...guess to whom ? ....yes, the same "private investors" who acted as "strawmen" before Smiley .

    These "investors" promised to pay very high lease rates (IMHO not possible to earn...), hence the politicians tell the public: look, no prob we found someone who's paying for it Smiley.

    Of course it's only a matter of time when the entire financial misconstruction will blow up and the big question is: what will happen then Smiley My bet: the taxpayer will bleed again like always when politicians try to play "entrepreneurs".

    Of course a lot of 'Ring fans (those who come to enjoy motorsports) are worried what may happen to the 'Ring due to the enormous financial debt the N'Ring GmbH's balance sheet is showing now (bancrupcy...) Personally I'm not that worried because I'm sure that after the next election the balance sheet will be cleaned up (debt to equity swap..) Smiley

    I think those who fear that the new management would simply double ticket prices in order to compensate for the theme park losses are wrong: what are 3-4 mEUR Touristenfahrten tickets p.a. vs. 350 m€ debt ?

    Anyway, just another terrible example showing what happens when politicians "take care" of taxpayers' money Smiley

     


    --
     

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    easy_rider911:

    That's just tragic  

    Why did they build a theme park and shopping mall at such great cost if it wasn't economically viable?  And false accounting just adds to the disaster

    The Nordschelife is unique - its future should never be jeopardised like this

    There was a scandal and the tax-payer ended up paying.The finance minister had to quit his job over the theme park...


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    It seems RSR, who have offered rental cars at the ring and also tuition have been banned from the ring. The owners of the Ring now have their own track instruction company.

    Link is in german, sorry.

    http://eveline-lemke.de/meine-themen/nuerburgring/?no_cache=1&expand=329343&displayNon=1&cHash=8771b14f374b804ad1d93...


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    Re: Save Nurburgring

    OMG, what is happening to this place? Stupid government projects, dumb ownership. Can we please safe it... Someone will be buy it, BMW or Mercedes if all goes under. Perhaps a Rennteam expansion into the real world. I'll chip in $100 CAD 


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    Gauss:

    It seems RSR, who have offered rental cars at the ring and also tuition have been banned from the ring. The owners of the Ring now have their own track instruction company.


    I hope the Bundeskartellamt (German anti-trust authority) will take care....


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    This can't happen. it would be a big mistake. are they going to do like Switzerland? taking away what's the best for youngs, development etc.... and to say to the public, have fun on a public road.

    I don't think they will be so St.....d

    Lets sign a petition


    --

    GT3, Cooper S & CS


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    Cram:

    This can't happen. it would be a big mistake. are they going to do like Switzerland? taking away what's the best for youngs, development etc.... and to say to the public, have fun on a public road.

    I don't think they will be so St.....d

    Lets sign a petition

    http://www.gopetition.com/petition/41698.html


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    Re: Save Nurburgring

    Thank's Gauss


    --

    GT3, Cooper S & CS


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    I signed im #3339 only... We're gonna need more than that to stop and revers government stupidity. I'd like to know specifically which government branch, name if possible, is responsible for this hack job of an idea. Theme park on taxmoney = fail. increased prices for the track = fail. renting to the same guys who wanted the theme park = epic fail.

    A letter to the PM is in order.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    The Nürburgring Automotive GmbH has issued a home ban against the company, based in RSR Nürburgring Nürburgring GmbH and 75 Experience. Owner of both companies is the Dutchman Ron Simons, offering since the late 90's license courses and track days on the Nordschleife. It is already the second house prohibition against Mr. Simons.

    A first exclusion from the tourist trips already been passed by the old Nürburgring in 2009, but by the then newly appointed CEO in January 2010, repealed by Ron Simons should be allowed a last chance probation. Reason for the house ban were, and include serious safety defects in the process used by the RSR Nurburgring vehicles, license plate abuse, illicit instructors rides, not showing accident caused damage, massive complaints from other North Loop users (For the spokesmen was Mr. Frison, who in 2010, the exile of Mr. Simons has called on the Nordschleife ...), the repeated violation of agreements and the abuse of the annual pass. In addition, Ron Simons has tried during the so-called Track Walks person in the trunk of his vehicle without having to smuggle the agreed fee has been paid. By renewed violations of the rules adopted, has felt the Nürburgring GmbH Automotive forced to issue a renewed house ban.

    The granting of the House ban was confirmed by order of the District Court of Mainz, December 2010.


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    Re: Save Nurburgring

    PJ, what do you think of this ? Did you witness some of these problems ?


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    Hi Gnil, I only can comment on two issues mentioned in the article:

    "safety defects" - yes, RSR did rent out a fleet (35 or so cars) of old ALFAs (mosttly ALFA 75) and some of them looked not too confidence inspiring Smiley, but if I recall correctly they stopped to use them on the 'Ring in mid 2009. Since then they've used a fleet of new cars (Porsche, Renault etc.).

    "illicit instructor rides" - yes, it was a familiar sight to watch Ron or one of his employees (very experienced NoS drivers) instructing their customers how to drive the 'Ring (either driving a "pacecar" or instructing from the passenger seat). Indeed it is - according to the general rules - not allowed to do this during the public days / Touristenfahrten (at least not as a business). I always thought that RSR would have some sort of agreement with the Nürburgring GmbH which allowed the instructor rides, as the rules read: "it's not allowed, unless Nürburgring GmbH approves" Smiley


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    Thanks PJ ! I remember those Alfa 75 and some did indeed look like they would not pass an official car inspection .

    And regarding the ''illicit instructor rides '' next time I take you for a ride in my passenger seat and you give me your experienced advice , I will not be allowed anymore to  bay you a coffee afterwards


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    Gnil:

    Thanks PJ ! I remember those Alfa 75 and some did indeed look like they would not pass an official car inspection .

    And regarding the ''illicit instructor rides '' next time I take you for a ride in my passenger seat and you give me your experienced advice , I will not be allowed anymore to  bay you a coffee afterwards

     Gnil, I don't think you'll talk yourself out of buying PJ a coffee that easily!  Smiley  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    fritz:

     Gnil, I don't think you'll talk yourself out of buying PJ a coffee that easily!  Smiley  Smiley


    Right, fritz SmileySmiley As I may risk a 'Ring ban (God forbid) a coffee won't be a risk adequate compensation Smiley


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    mmmmmmmm Nurburgring....


    --

    I see dead pixels...


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    link courtesy of bluelines : http://savethering.org/


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    Re: Save Nurburgring

    Here's a video which explains the situation. The video is in german only, but below you will find a short english resume which can be found among the comments if you watch it on youtube.

    The story - Part 1: The Nürburgring is owned by the Land Rhineland-Palatinate and is run by the Nürburgring Gmbh. Since 2004 the Nürburgring GmbH made substantial losses, mostly due to secondary businesses it started in previous years. In order to make more money they planed to build an Event, Leisure and Business Park at the Nordschleife, and were looking for private investors to finance it, as Rhineland-Palatinate could not finance it on its own. But for several years no investor was found.

    The story - Part 2: In 2007 development of the park was started, although financing was not ensured. In mid 2007 a company called MediInvest from Düsseldorf was announced as the private investor financing the project, but this company did not have the €94m required. In order to proceed with the project, public money (i.e. taxpayer's money) was transferred to MediInvest without public notice. "Nürburgring 2009" was planned as an Entertainment, Shopping and Business Park development.

    The story - Part 3: to include the "fastest roller-coaster in the world". A similar concept "Spacepark" in Bremen a few years back, went bankrupt very quickly. In early 2009 Rhineland-Palatinate still searched for private financing for the project which was due to open in July. A Swiss businessman offered financing too good to be true, told stories of investors from Dubai, the US and elsewhere, was delaying the whole transaction and asking for money in order to acquire more investment.

    The story Part 4: Neither Nürburgring GmbH nor Rhineland-Palatinate wanted to believe that the complex financing concept offered by the Swiss had any flaws or could even be a fraud. When they finally realised the truth, the Finance Minister of Rhineland-Palatinate resigned. In total €330 million of taxpayer's money was burned in the project, with little success for the Park. The roller-coaster (€11m) never ran, the shopping mall and entertainment centre are pretty empty.

    The story Part 5 (ends): The concern from local people is now that all this will also influence the Nürburgring and its myth itself, as the operating company Nürburgring GmbH has now even more financial problems than before. There are/were running several investigations with regard to breach of trust, fraud mismanagement and lack of financial control.


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    Re: Save Nurburgring

    Was the €94m for the development of the whole scheme or was this for a specific stage.  If it was to be completed for €94m then how on earth has it cost €330m to date without anyone picking this up?  The mind boggles.


    --

    I see dead pixels...


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    Complete stupidity. First they had a great idea, in their stupid minds... obviously without research. Then they banked on selling their fantastic idea to a private investor... This obviously never showed up because any child can tell this project is dumb.. so then they went and found help with economically challenged governments to provide some intermediate funding. All the while telling the public that a private investor had been found.. So they were now looking desperately for this magical investor behind the scenes and being the clever and experienced bunch of guys they are, they found hope in some shady and sketchy bloke from Switzerland. The project was kept going on tax money provided by, well the incompetent government, and so the bills racked up to over 300 million. What is the most crazy, is that they kept spending tons of cash for meetings and commute to solve what was obviously not going to be solved.

    This is why i hate government. The sheer incompetence is just unbelievable. Politicians have NO idea how markets work, most of them probably never worked in the private sector. It's pathetic to keep seeing these clowns fail us over and over again with ZERO consequences might i add. This finance minister.. Oh so now that you have destroyed the place with stupidity and wasted OTHER peoples money, you are just going to resign? How about prison with a 330 million debt tag to your name. Same goes for that Kafitz guy. You can't just resign, that's BS. Now he lives on in Abu Dhabi probably getting paid enough to cover some of the charges and fines he will face... to which he will laugh of course. I hope that whole management is somehow penalized for their actions and that the Nurnburgring can recover from all this.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    I didnt' knew - unbelievable..... I really hope they will safe the track.....


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    .....on a lighter note: the 'Ring open this weekend Smiley On Sunday even including the GP-circuit (VLN lap) Smiley Can't tell my feelings when I let the GT3 stretch his legs today after a 100 days break Smiley

    GT3 + NoS = heaven Smiley I'll be there on Sunday ......Smiley


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Save Nurburgring

    That's great - hope you have a lot of fun P-J 


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    RT Moderator - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


     
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