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    Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

     Anyone want to begin the wagering?  I am betting on Ferrari...

    http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/road-cars/opinions/the-return-of-the-manual-gearbox/


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Aston recently announced that the manual will be part of its future lineup too.  With today's current technology enabling rev matching, the manual has less impact on emissions than what was once argued as a case for its binning.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Grant:

     Anyone want to begin the wagering?  I am betting on Ferrari...

    http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/road-cars/opinions/the-return-of-the-manual-gearbox/

    ...but manual is so 90s Smiley Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    CGX car nut:

    Aston recently announced that the manual will be part of its future lineup too.  With today's current technology enabling rev matching, the manual has less impact on emissions than what was once argued as a case for its binning.

    I think the Rev-match feature is a safety enhancement (adds stability where a poor downshift could cause a spin), but it can't force an upshift which is where automatics score highly on emissions and fuel economy.


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Grant:
    CGX car nut:

    Aston recently announced that the manual will be part of its future lineup too.  With today's current technology enabling rev matching, the manual has less impact on emissions than what was once argued as a case for its binning.

    I think the Rev-match feature is a safety enhancement (adds stability where a poor downshift could cause a spin), but it can't force an upshift which is where automatics score highly on emissions and fuel economy.

    The emission issue on the downshift is excessive blipping of the throttle and this is reduced through a controlled rev matching strategy. This is an example of the types of issues carmakers face to meet the highly stringent regulatory environment globally.  


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    If Ferrari offers a manual for the F 488 one hour later a sign a contractkiss


    --

    Being polite is so rare these days that it's often confused with flirting.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Turbo:

    If Ferrari offers a manual for the F 488 one hour later a sign a contractkiss

    I'm thinking that it would be a possibility in the new Dino first.


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    I think Porsche have the balance right - the GT3(RS) PDK-automatic for those customers who put performance and ultimate lap times first, and the GT4 Manual for customers who put driver fun and feedback first.

    Hopefully all performance car manufactures will realise there is space for both in their lineup!


    --

    Current - Aston V12 Vantage, Morning Frost White, Buckets, Manual

    On Order - Cayman GT4, Racing Yellow, PCCB, Full Buckets


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Adam2S:

    I think Porsche have the balance right - the GT3(RS) PDK-automatic for those customers who put performance and ultimate lap times first, and the GT4 Manual for customers who put driver fun and feedback first.

    Hopefully all performance car manufactures will realise there is space for both in their lineup!

     

    enough of this ! ......Porsche should just offer a choice of a PDK or MT on every " regular production " 911/Cayman/Boxster ....including  GT4, GT3 AND GT3RS ...even the Turbo ...........its buyers are SMART ENOUGH to know that there is a BENEFIT and TRADE OFF and BEST PERSONAL FIT / MISSION of chosing either transmission........ just like for those buying a base ,  S or GTS model .......geez ....

    Smiley

     

     


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Totally disagree. Manual is a thing of the past. I own two manual cars but I will not buy a new car with manual, makes no sense whatsoever on modern cars with the advances of the technology, even more so on performance cars.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    I had now PDK for 6 or 7 years . My next  car will be manual . 


    --

     997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    SciFrog:

    Totally disagree. Manual is a thing of the past......with the advances of the technology, even more so on performance cars.

    why should you disagree to giving others a choice ...it's like saying there should only be one color combo and one total build spec available ....YOUR favorite  ..no options   , since offering choices ultimately raises the price of YOUR car from production " complexity " 

    BTW, whip by a traffic cop at 9/10 ths on a public road  piloting the slowest and crappiest handling  new vehicle of any sort available on the market whether it has a manual or automated gearbox and see what happens ....if the track is your playground  and a  stopwatch is your holy grail ....sure get the PDK 

    Smiley

     

     


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    MKW:
    SciFrog:

    Totally disagree. Manual is a thing of the past. I own two manual cars but I will not buy a new car with manual, makes no sense whatsoever on modern cars with the advances of the technology, even more so on performance cars.

     

    everyone on this site who truly cares what YOU like ...raise your hand 

    Smiley

     

     

     

    Yet there's a the 991.2 thread stating that the 991 has become boring compared with past 911s.  I wonder what that link isSmiley 26


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    CGX car nut:
     

    Yet there's a the 991.2 thread stating that the 991 has become boring compared with past 911s.  I wonder what that link isSmiley 26

    People were saying the same thing about the 997 as well. It's not just the transmission. 

     


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    CGX car nut:
    MKW:
    SciFrog:

    Totally disagree. Manual is a thing of the past. I own two manual cars but I will not buy a new car with manual, makes no sense whatsoever on modern cars with the advances of the technology, even more so on performance cars.

     

    everyone on this site who truly cares what YOU like ...raise your hand 

    Smiley

     Deleted post? Sneaky... Since when one feels empowered to make a personal attack when one posts their opinion?Smiley


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    MKW:
    SciFrog:

    Totally disagree. Manual is a thing of the past......with the advances of the technology, even more so on performance cars.

    why should you disagree to giving others a choice ...it's like saying there should only be one color combo and one total build spec available ....YOUR favorite  ..no options   , since offering choices ultimately raises the price of YOUR car from production " complexity " 

    BTW, whip by a traffic cop at 9/10 ths on a public road  piloting the slowest and crappiest handling  new vehicle of any sort available on the market whether it has a manual or automated gearbox and see what happens ....if the track is your playground  and a  stopwatch is your holy grail ....sure get the PDK 

    Smiley

     

     

    Years ago Ferrari stopped producing manual cars because no one was buying them. People had a choice and they passed. Demand is strong for the GT4 and Boxster Spyder BUT they are only manual. What do you think the ratio of manual vs PDK would be if there WAS a choice? Your first point makes no sense.

    If you need to drive at 9/10 to get pleasure from a car and that's your purpose on the road then you bought the wrong car. And that's the whole point of the other thread about the 991.2. My California, 612, Mini or Vantage at 3/10 give me great pleasure and that's why they are still in the garage.

    If the track is your playground and a stopwatch is your holy grail you should be driving a cup car and they don't have PDK nor manual.


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Gnil:

    I had now PDK for 6 or 7 years . My next  car will be manual . 

    Yep and that's why we see a shift... 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Atzporsche:
    Gnil:

    I had now PDK for 6 or 7 years . My next  car will be manual . 

    Yep and that's why we see a shift... 

    No pun intended?  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    fritz:
    Atzporsche:
    Gnil:

    I had now PDK for 6 or 7 years . My next  car will be manual . 

    Yep and that's why we see a shift... 

    No pun intended?  Smiley

    SmileySmiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    A turbo charged car with a high torque figure and manual is not really fun. Have you guys driven the 997 GT2 RS? Amazing machine but you need to pay attention what you're doing. It is fun up to a point but then it gets serious. angry

    Manual is fun when you are alone on the road/track and you can play with the car. Manual gets in the way big time when you use your car as a daily driver or you want to be faster than others.

    I love my GT500 but manual is wrong on so many levels for this car.

    Yes, people should be able to choose but for car manufacturers, offering both options (manual and something like PDK) is very expensive and requires some compromises in the setup of the cars.

    The reason Porsche offered manual in the GT4 isn't exactly to make people happy (sorry to say that) but with PDK, the GT4 would have been too fast in comparison to the GT3 and even GT3 RS. angry This is no secret.

    Also, the GT4 has a n/a engine with a limited amount of torque, traction is very good and the car is easy to control with manual.

    Maybe when we meet, Bluelines can try my GT500 with manual...and 1076 Nm torque.  Trust me, this is no fun anymore, this is a killing machine you need to be very very careful with. Since the old clutch didn't cope with this kind of torque, I had to replace it with a two disc clutch, which basically acts like an on/off switch. No fun in this if you use this car as a daily driver. As a weekend fun toy however, it is amazing because it is "different".

    People who love cars know what they prefer under certain circumstances, sometimes it is PDK and sometimes it is manual. Those who have only manual on their mind and completely oppose PDK or such, should actually ask themselves why. I doubt it has only driving fun reasons but some psychological background which may be related to manhood and such (especially in the US). Driving stick in the US is something special, in Germany every beginner and every granny at age 90 can drive manual. Smiley Nothing special about it.

    Giving people a choice to choose sounds reasonable but when car manufacturers have to compromise the setup or even the performance of the car just to "fit in" manual, this gets ridiculous. 


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    RC:

    A turbo charged car with a high torque figure and manual is not really fun. Have you guys driven the 997 GT2 RS?

    Agreed. My previous 997.1 Turbo was no fun with manual. Too fast building up rpm and too low max rpm. PDK would have been perfect.

    RC:

    Maybe when we meet, Bluelines can try my GT500 with manual...and 1076 Nm torque. 

    Thanks for the offer. This does not mean that I let you drive the GT4.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    bluelines:
    RC:

    A turbo charged car with a high torque figure and manual is not really fun. Have you guys driven the 997 GT2 RS?

    Agreed. My previous 997.1 Turbo was no fun with manual. Too fast building up rpm and too low max rpm. PDK would have been perfect.

    RC:

    Maybe when we meet, Bluelines can try my GT500 with manual...and 1076 Nm torque. 

    Thanks for the offer. This does not mean that I let you drive the GT4.

    Don't worry, I had enough hours in the car. Smiley Loved it btw. and for this kind of money, a steal but I also think that it would have sold even better with PDK.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    RC:
    bluelines:
    RC:

    A turbo charged car with a high torque figure and manual is not really fun. Have you guys driven the 997 GT2 RS?

    Agreed. My previous 997.1 Turbo was no fun with manual. Too fast building up rpm and too low max rpm. PDK would have been perfect.

    RC:

    Maybe when we meet, Bluelines can try my GT500 with manual...and 1076 Nm torque. 

    Thanks for the offer. This does not mean that I let you drive the GT4.

    Don't worry, I had enough hours in the car. Smiley Loved it btw. and for this kind of money, a steal but I also think that it would have sold even better with PDK.

    Did you now? But never wrote about it. Tss.

    I am so very happy that it does not have PDK.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    bluelines:
    RC:
    bluelines:
    RC:

    A turbo charged car with a high torque figure and manual is not really fun. Have you guys driven the 997 GT2 RS?

    Agreed. My previous 997.1 Turbo was no fun with manual. Too fast building up rpm and too low max rpm. PDK would have been perfect.

    RC:

    Maybe when we meet, Bluelines can try my GT500 with manual...and 1076 Nm torque. 

    Thanks for the offer. This does not mean that I let you drive the GT4.

    Don't worry, I had enough hours in the car. Smiley Loved it btw. and for this kind of money, a steal but I also think that it would have sold even better with PDK.

    Did you now? But never wrote about it. Tss.

    I avoid (most of the time) writing about stuff I cannot prove (photos). It wouldn't sound credible. Smiley The car I drove was not a dealer or customer car. Smiley

    I am so very happy that it does not have PDK.

    I see it the other way around. PDK would have added to the fun but to each his own I guess. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    RC:

    I avoid (most of the time) writing about stuff I cannot prove (photos). It wouldn't sound credible. 

    Touchè! Smiley You never made the smallest hint that you drove the GT4. Never. Ever. If credibility is your concern, well...


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    bluelines:
    RC:

    I avoid (most of the time) writing about stuff I cannot prove (photos). It wouldn't sound credible. 

    Touchè! Smiley You never made the smallest hint that you drove the GT4. Never. Ever. If credibility is your concern, well...

    It is my concern. Those who know me, know that I tell the truth but others...I don't know.

    I cannot post many of my experiences for various reasons, which is also tough for me because I really want to brag about it. Oh well, at least I have my kids Smiley (my wife isn't really interested in car stuff Smiley).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    A manual is best experienced and suited with N/a engine (high revving motor) no more turbo for me when I buy a manual.

    I agree, a manual is not for everyone, but if Ferrari or Lambo has plans to bring it back in their V12 lineup, I may be ready to pull the trigger.

    Only way to go the turbo way is, nothing less than 8,000rpm or higher (Peak power must be close to redline) and proper tires that offer plenty of traction, otherwise, you'll be going sideways or taking out the car next to you in lower gears.

    Never had a problem with my old GT2 getting all that torque down to the ground, but the 6,500rpm was too low for such a powerful car, so we had to bump it up to 7,000rpm and still felt it needed a higher redline.

    Option #2 for turbocharged car is an advanced AWD system with (auto, wet, sport, race settings) to get you to your destination without killing yourself.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFFwhsmRkfA


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    Sorry for a bit of a philosophical tangent, but are we actually nostalgic about clutches and manual gearshifting or is it really the tactility that we are missing?

    A car is a machine, and nothing says machine like having levers to push and pull. Something that makes you feel that mechanical connection.

    Humans can experience 5 senses yes?

    • Hearing - No point in human history have we heard such diverse voices, languages, music, instruments etc etc thanks to being able to easily travel to different places, and listen to music / watch TV etc.
    • Sight - Same with seeing.
    • Taste - What a variety of cuisines we eat
    • Smells - Check out the types of flowers or perfumes and creams, foods etc that we can smell. Smells people of even the last century couldnt even dream about.
    • Touch - Swiping on a touchscreen... hmmm

    Where is the variety in touch? Where is the satisfaction derived from mechanically manipulating tools etc. We do a lot less with our hands, especially white collar folk. 

    Maybe like the sound symposer, porsche needs to come out with a touch symposer yes

     

     


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    You are definitely on to something Avi. It is, for me, not about nostalgia but all about the man-machine connection. The PDK paddles cannot transmit the same feeling as the gear lever and clutch. In addition, and I mentioned this before, you get to know the car much better when it comes to rpm and speed. With PDK you simply don't need to care.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: Next two brands to offer Manual Gearbox?

    So, PDK is best if you just drive in circles on a track to nowhere and ideal in traffic jams. Great. Now if Porsche would just Standardize PDK gear lever pattern between the GT3 and the rest that might be a step forward. angry

    Manuals are fun in sports cars, not so much in old school Shelby mustangs with solid rear axles, except maybe at the drag strip. Very Few people buy those anyway. But a manual in a gt 4 is fun. Nothing wrong with fun.

    PDK is useful, but boring, costs more and isn't 100 percent perfect and its not as fun as a manual unless you really need to save two or three tenths of second less on your ego checklist. 


     
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