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    SAVE THE RING

    Please contribute to help save the Ring .  It is on the verge of getting sold and the outcome does not look like it will be positive for any of us.

     

     


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    Gnil:

    Please contribute to help save the Ring .  It is on the verge of getting sold and the outcome does not look like it will be positive for any of us.

     

     

    I was so hopeful with ADAC being candidate to buy the Nordschleife, since they're out of the game now, the outcome looks very insecure for us petrolheads indeed. Fingers crossed.


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    Capricorn may be a good choice as well.


    --

    Porsche 911 GT3 - Guards Red 997 MKII Clubsport


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    so sad!!!!...but it's the future, the sad future, that will make motorsport and cars slowly dissapear, since the new generations don't give a damn about cars anymore....


    --

    993 c2


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    xander71:

    so sad!!!!...but it's the future, the sad future, that will make motorsport and cars slowly dissapear, since the new generations don't give a damn about cars anymore....

    +1 Very true


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 993 4S Riviera Blau, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    There a re many Country Club race tracks appearing around the US.  Much safer and 100% more fun than golf!  RC should visit the one near Vegas on the next trip there.  Forget the name.  Someone here certainly has it. 

    Anyway, it is hardly the demise of sports cars.  In the end all or part of it will be bought and still raced on.  I would like to see Ross Brawn and MS take it over.  He is looking for a hobby and MS could be a Ring taxi driver!


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    Leawood911:

    There a re many Country Club race tracks appearing around the US.  Much safer and 100% more fun than golf!  RC should visit the one near Vegas on the next trip there.  Forget the name.  Someone here certainly has it. 

    Anyway, it is hardly the demise of sports cars.  In the end all or part of it will be bought and still raced on.  I would like to see Ross Brawn and MS take it over.  He is looking for a hobby and MS could be a Ring taxi driver!

    The problem is the youth in Germany (and some other parts of Europe too): Let's face it, motorsports and track fun are dying a slow death over here. When I was in my 20s, almost all my male friends had a car and everybody loved cars, even some girls. It was the time of sporty hatchbacks, the VW Golf GTi, the Fiat Uno Turbo, the Fiat Ritmo 130TC Abarth, the Honda CRX, Opel Kadett GTE/GSi and so on. Europeans in their 40s and 50s certainly remember.

    Now, look around people over here: They drive super small cars and very often, the guy doesn't even drive, he lets his girlfriend drive. Or they drive some minuscule Japanese cars or Smarts or even underpowered Minis because it is cool. It isn't. One of my wife's friends' husband bought a BMW 3 series Cab with a Diesel. Another husband drives a Toyota IQ (this is some sort of Toyota version of the Smart). Another one drives a..Smart and sometimes as if this is a race car. Smiley This really isn't always about money but I really have the feeling that cars aren't that important anymore for younger people over here. They prefer spending money on Playstations, gadgets, whatever but not on cars. Also driving a sports car in GT5 (or 6 now) is much easier, cheaper and less bloody than driving the real thing. The real driving heroes are now on the Playstation or Xbox . Smiley

    Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm just getting old. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    RC:

    The problem is the youth in Germany (and some other parts of Europe too): Let's face it, motorsports and track fun are dying a slow death over here. 

    That's too bad - driving the 'Ring and Spa are on my bucket list.  Here, the track situation is excellent.  New track has open days nearly every week and the course is fun and the cost is low ($100 for all-day off-peak season and $90 for 4 hours during peak season).

    www.highplainsraceway.com


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    In the real comunism country ( italy) they are trying to kill all car industry, taxing like crazy the cars, making fines all the time they can, and of course destroying all the national industries, and they are on the way to make it, the car market is collapsing, no supercar sells in italy, only ferrari lost  more than 50% of the national market, !!!!!

    at the track days the fiscal police are always there, and people dont go anymore, the tracks are bankrupt, and no italian pilots exists anymore, not even in motorbike where we had all the greatest super champions.

    Thanks to real comunism, not the russian one, the new generations really hate cars and all people hate people with fast cars. And just 10 years ago the police could begging you to accelerate to hear a ferrari revving in town!!!!!!!!!!!

     


    --

    993 c2


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    RC:
     

    The problem is the youth in Germany (and some other parts of Europe too): Let's face it, motorsports and track fun are dying a slow death over here. When I was in my 20s, almost all my male friends had a car and everybody loved cars, even some girls. It was the time of sporty hatchbacks, the VW Golf GTi, the Fiat Uno Turbo, the Fiat Ritmo 130TC Abarth, the Honda CRX, Opel Kadett GTE/GSi and so on. Europeans in their 40s and 50s certainly remember.

     

    I grew up with the exact same people and cars around me like you ( I' m from 1966 )  . All my friends were into cars . As soon as we were 18, the goal was to have a cool car and it ranged from older Kadetts ( modified ) for the ones who could not afford new, to Golf GT1, Kadett GSI, Uno Turbo, Mitsubishi Lancer Turbo, CRX , 205 GTI  etc….

    I also do not see this around me anymore . Maybe it is also the place I live now ( more urban ) . But , like you said, cars for younger people seem to be more of a tool to get from A to B  .  It is the same with high end HI-FI . The younger generation does not spend money on amplifier ,  speakers etc….   they just plug their iphod/phone in a sound box and that is enough for them . 

    Maybe with the next generation of cars, when all the ' pollution' issues will be solved with electric or similar, it will be again politically correct to race cars and we will have tracks again ( silent ones Smiley )


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    xander71:

    at the track days the fiscal police are always there

     

    isn't this because they are trying to catch folks who have not paid taxes, or who have not declared their income?


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    I know it is very hard to understand, but in this corrupted country all people are forced to do something out of the rules to survive, so you have to know that with the taxes at about 70% and you cannot put as costs nothing, all peolpe are inventing strategy to try to pay less taxes, at least the one you feel correct, since all this taxes are funding the corruption !!!!!

     

    it is very strange, but if ou have a nice car and you are a nice guy, that have Always payd taxes you can ge stopped 5 /6 times at the same dy, they follow you as a criminal!!!!

    eveything is just wrong here now!!!


    --

    993 c2


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    xander71:

    In the real comunism country ( italy) they are trying to kill all car industry, taxing like crazy the cars, making fines all the time they can, and of course destroying all the national industries, and they are on the way to make it, the car market is collapsing, no supercar sells in italy, only ferrari lost  more than 50% of the national market, !!!!!

    at the track days the fiscal police are always there, and people dont go anymore, the tracks are bankrupt, and no italian pilots exists anymore, not even in motorbike where we had all the greatest super champions.

    Thanks to real comunism, not the russian one, the new generations really hate cars and all people hate people with fast cars. And just 10 years ago the police could begging you to accelerate to hear a ferrari revving in town!!!!!!!!!!!

    fuck the government

     

    Russia has actually amazingly low tax rates and rich people benefit from them. Nowadays Western Europe, especially the EU, is more "communist" (better socialist) than Russia. Sad but true.

    it is also interesting to watch how rich Russians who want to live abroad usually move to the UK and not other countries in the EU (guess why???). Or they have property in the US.

    The political and social movement to "equality" is hurting economies badly and at some point, things will get even more ugly. I know that Germany has been lucky so far but it could change.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    sfo:
    xander71:

    at the track days the fiscal police are always there

     

    isn't this because they are trying to catch folks who have not paid taxes, or who have not declared their income?

    Of course this is true but look at me for example: I'm a stupid German, paying up to over 70% of my income for taxes (income tax, VAT, fuel tax, property tax, etc. etc. etc.). Italians and others have a different mentality, they do not understand why they should work most of their time for a government which spends the money for stuff they don't want. In Germany, there is a certain social solidarity which is sometimes admirable but I have a different mentality and don't think that this is how it should be. I don't want to work for others and while I support the Red Cross and my kids's school and former Kindergarten, I do not want to support people with my money who don't do much for society other than producing babies and later on...criminals and unemployed people. Smiley Yes, I pay my taxes but I cannot say I love doing it. I work almost 3/4 of my time for taxes, this is just insane. So the problem lies in the taxing system and while I am OK with my income tax, I do not understand stuff like fuel tax, almost 20% VAT, inheritance taxes or similar stuff. Income tax, business tax, this is OK. Even VAT is OK but not close to 20% (6-8% would be reasonable in my opinion). Fuel tax? I don't get it at all, same goes to other energy related taxes. I am willing to pay up to half of my income for taxes but not more. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    I'm okay with sales taxes or consumption taxes.  We can choose when to do these things.  We all have to work however, and income taxes are nothing more than modern day slavery.  As long as Govt. determines how much and takes away your freedom when you don't pay up (and you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent with the IRS in the US) then it is nothing more than state forced labor/slavery.  There should be NO income tax (or Corp. taxes) so that people have 100% incentive to EARN their OWN money and KEEP it.  We are much better at spending our money than government ever could hope to be.  We make much better decisions on what to buy and when.  Let them have a little sales tax when we make the decision, out of our own free will, to make a purchase.  At the same time you eliminate all income tax cheating!  Talk about being fair!  It does not get any better than that.

    Read up on the FAIR TAX!  It would change the way we live for the better more than anything else I have seen in my lifetime.


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    Maybe we should go back to topic, sorry guys. frown


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    RC:
    Leawood911:

    There a re many Country Club race tracks appearing around the US.  Much safer and 100% more fun than golf!  RC should visit the one near Vegas on the next trip there.  Forget the name.  Someone here certainly has it. 

    Anyway, it is hardly the demise of sports cars.  In the end all or part of it will be bought and still raced on.  I would like to see Ross Brawn and MS take it over.  He is looking for a hobby and MS could be a Ring taxi driver!

    The problem is the youth in Germany (and some other parts of Europe too): Let's face it, motorsports and track fun are dying a slow death over here. When I was in my 20s, almost all my male friends had a car and everybody loved cars, even some girls. It was the time of sporty hatchbacks, the VW Golf GTi, the Fiat Uno Turbo, the Fiat Ritmo 130TC Abarth, the Honda CRX, Opel Kadett GTE/GSi and so on. Europeans in their 40s and 50s certainly remember.

    Now, look around people over here: They drive super small cars and very often, the guy doesn't even drive, he lets his girlfriend drive. Or they drive some minuscule Japanese cars or Smarts or even underpowered Minis because it is cool. It isn't. One of my wife's friends' husband bought a BMW 3 series Cab with a Diesel. Another husband drives a Toyota IQ (this is some sort of Toyota version of the Smart). Another one drives a..Smart and sometimes as if this is a race car. Smiley This really isn't always about money but I really have the feeling that cars aren't that important anymore for younger people over here. They prefer spending money on Playstations, gadgets, whatever but not on cars. Also driving a sports car in GT5 (or 6 now) is much easier, cheaper and less bloody than driving the real thing. The real driving heroes are now on the Playstation or Xbox . Smiley

    Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm just getting old. Smiley

    Sadly I put more miles on my RUF CTR in GT5 (and 6 now) than I put on my 997 C2S that is currently waiting out the winter in my garage. Over here I think young people still like to own and drive sporty cars. I see a lot of the Subaru BRZ's and FRS Scion version of it around (love it, would own a BRZ if I was in my 20's). Of course lots of Golf GTi's and Nissan Z cars are driven by 20 somethings. I see a fair amount of 30 somethings in Caymans, Boxsters and 1 and 3 series BMW's. However I do see more Prius or other so called green cars than sporty cars. As for the Ring I certainly hope that it will live on. It would be a shame if we could only enjoy it on our Playstations.


    Re: SAVE THE RING

    February 15 'Korso'

    http://www.wir-sind-nuerburgring.de/


     
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