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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Porsche-Jeck:
    Pentium:
    Still no pictures of the car taken from behind while the wing is up... Hmmm...

    Here you go - looks a bit odd with the sharp contrast of racing yellow / dark shade Smiley
    991_wing_up.jpg


     

    Thank you! On this color I don't like it at all...
    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     Interesting, you can have the model name deleted, but "PORSCHE" lettering will remain!

    "911" may replace the model name


    --
    997 GT3 Guards Red

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Hi there, good to see you again Trundle  


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Trundle_GT3:

     Interesting, you can have the model name deleted, but "PORSCHE" lettering will remain!

    "911" may replace the model name


    I believe this option  started with the new Cayenne. 


    --

    2006 997 C2S Cab, Triple Black,  2006 Cayenne Titanium Iceland Silver Metalic New York


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ADias:

    I do not need to drive it. Just look at it! Larger, GT luxury, ridiculous sunroof, electric e-brake, 20 inch rims, electric power-steering, overly complex curves/rear. The active roll-bars fit in a large sports sedan or SUV, not in a sports car. More tech to go wrong. If you like a simple, timeless shape, that is lost. You like it, and that is great. I do not. I may keep my car forever, or move on to a Cayman, which may now be closer to my concept of a sports car.

    I am not putting down the car. I am sure many will like it. PAG knows that and that is why they designed it this way, along with some other political reasons. Performance-wise I have no doubt it will be better. But for some of us, that is not the ideal direction. There are incredibly performing GTs and I would never want them.

     

    A 993 owner could say the say thing about the 997... but by 10 fold, and so a 964 owner about the 993, and so on. There is no unmovable line, its just evolution, and so far in over four decades they got every single evolutionary step right, the 997 is proof of that, so I think they deserve at least the benefit of the doubt and a test drive before jumping to conclusions, I guess what I'm having trouble understanding is the pre-emptive negativety towards the 991 based on pictures, it will likely beat the 997 in every category, yes even in "nine-eleveness", but it doesn't make our 997 any less than they were before Smiley 21 Anyway, we will be in a better position to discuss that part after we test drive it and come to a conclusion, right now the only conclusoin we can draw is that you do not like its looks vs a 997 based on pictures, and I do, and I have to admit it kind of grows on me more and more the more I look at it, can't wait to see it live.just hope it drioves in the same manner cause thats were it counts Smiley 4


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    The only way to solve the puzzle of 911 evolution is to own several from a wide range of model years (over a lifetime or all at once, if budget allows).  Every model year is a compromise in some ways compared to other model years, but they are all interesting and each is best at something.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     To those saying the 991 is now all GT: The interior isn't really all that more luxurious than the 997's. It's just higher quality. And most of the stupid nanny sytems the 991 comes with that you managed are optional. The only one that isn't is the electric steering, but if you think the other electronic systmes will ruin the feel, don't order them. And how the heck does the design of the rear end of a car effect driving dynamics!? It's almost as if you're saying, yup the tail lights are recessed. That means there's no more driving feel or pleasure.

    Give me a break guys! Give me a base Carrera with a manual and hardly any options and I'd be happy as can be!


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carrara:


    Give me a break guys! Give me a base Carrera with a manual and hardly any options and I'd be happy as can be!

     

    Nah.  Give me a fully loaded 991TT so I won't regret not ordering something later.  Smiley


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carrara:

     To those saying the 991 is now all GT: The interior isn't really all that more luxurious than the 997's. It's just higher quality. And most of the stupid nanny sytems the 991 comes with that you managed are optional. The only one that isn't is the electric steering, but if you think the other electronic systmes will ruin the feel, don't order them. And how the heck does the design of the rear end of a car effect driving dynamics!? It's almost as if you're saying, yup the tail lights are recessed. That means there's no more driving feel or pleasure.

    Give me a break guys! Give me a base Carrera with a manual and hardly any options and I'd be happy as can be!


    I Thank you for saying this......  I agree with you 100%!!   Lets keep it more on tech. data which 991 offers... rather than objective views on 991's look.   I am having a headache of what options to order, and would love it if anybody could translate the whole manual....  Is there a program that does the translation on PDF file?


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ADias:
    reginos:
    palenimbus:

     

    Beautiful profile!!

    What a clean shape Smiley Nothing unnecessary, nothing superfluous. Muscle at the right places and plenty of elegance too.

    Some people say the Porsche Design Department is lazy but I think it is very difficult to make successive generations of the 911 and be able to match the new elements with the traditional cues

    BTW from this picture we can see that the drooping outer part of the front LEDs in profile. This design detail helps to make the side of the front bumper look slimmer and more analogous with the rear bumper that has the reflectors lower down. That's how it appears to my eyes at least.


    --

    "Form follows function"

     

    I do not argue taste. Like what you will, but clean shape? Look again... it's a longish profile (a la Jag XK), slightly hunchback (a la Panamera) with a bunch of weird creases and bulbous Toyota/Hyundai-looking headlights.

    Here is a clean shape:

     

     


     

    Let me guess...is that your car? Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carlos from Spain:
    ADias:

    I do not need to drive it. Just look at it! Larger, GT luxury, ridiculous sunroof, electric e-brake, 20 inch rims, electric power-steering, overly complex curves/rear. The active roll-bars fit in a large sports sedan or SUV, not in a sports car. More tech to go wrong. If you like a simple, timeless shape, that is lost. You like it, and that is great. I do not. I may keep my car forever, or move on to a Cayman, which may now be closer to my concept of a sports car.

    I am not putting down the car. I am sure many will like it. PAG knows that and that is why they designed it this way, along with some other political reasons. Performance-wise I have no doubt it will be better. But for some of us, that is not the ideal direction. There are incredibly performing GTs and I would never want them.

     

    A 993 owner could say the say thing about the 997... but by 10 fold, and so a 964 owner about the 993, and so on. There is no unmovable line, its just evolution, and so far in over four decades they got every single evolutionary step right, the 997 is proof of that, so I think they deserve at least the benefit of the doubt and a test drive before jumping to conclusions, I guess what I'm having trouble understanding is the pre-emptive negativety towards the 991 based on pictures, it will likely beat the 997 in every category, yes even in "nine-eleveness", but it doesn't make our 997 any less than they were before Smiley 21 Anyway, we will be in a better position to discuss that part after we test drive it and come to a conclusion, right now the only conclusoin we can draw is that you do not like its looks vs a 997 based on pictures, and I do, and I have to admit it kind of grows on me more and more the more I look at it, can't wait to see it live.just hope it drioves in the same manner cause thats were it counts Smiley 4


    --

     

    Carlos: Relax! It's just my opinion... Yeah based on what I see and know - a government-regulations-influenced car design (larger footprint, longer WB) which must affect driving dynamics and adds to the longish/flat look (a la Jag XK), a contorted rear with broken lines and creases, funky looking bulbous headlights (a la Japanese cars), an overly busy interior, a laughable sunroof, and a Chinese-looking bumper. It's all there for all to see. Some see it and go gaga and call it evolution, others like me, see it for what it is, a compromise of its essential DNA.

    Performance is not in question - I bet it will perform better than a 997 - a car 'on rails'. And for many that will be great and will yield great on-paper performance bragging rights. But I think differently. Heck... a Panamera probably performs better than a 997... it can be faster, more stable, 'on rails' on many tracks. And yes, a Panamera is a great car. But I drive a 911 for its quirky dynamics which I love and know how to drive...

    I have no problem with the 991, I have a 997 and there's a plethora of fantastic 911 gens on the market available for sale, any time I want. There is a point in a design evolution where the design strays too much. My bet is that we've reached that point.

    I drive currently a 997.2S and a 996 Turbo. The 997.2S is the better car, but the 996 Turbo (even with unspooled turbos), may be more fun to drive on certain roads. The 991's WB is longer than the Cayman and that says it all... Heck! I might prefer a Cayman R over a 'stable' 991.

    Yeah... I'm the odd-man-out. But I do not care for fashion and there are certain tenets that are so well established that when thy stray away they lose value for me.

    I still look forward to hearing your evaluation of the 991 driving dynamics when you have a real chance to put it to its paces on the roads you and I know. I am not interested to hear that it's better (I know it is), but rather interested to hear what we are missing.

    Many on this forum seem offended to hear a contrarian view. Please don't! It's just my opinion, and only I care about it. Smiley

     

     


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    DavidSF:

    Let me guess...is that your car? Smiley

     

    Yes, it's my car. But any 997 will do for the comparo I was making. :)


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ADias:
    reginos:
    palenimbus:

     

    Beautiful profile!!

    What a clean shape Smiley Nothing unnecessary, nothing superfluous. Muscle at the right places and plenty of elegance too.

    Some people say the Porsche Design Department is lazy but I think it is very difficult to make successive generations of the 911 and be able to match the new elements with the traditional cues

    BTW from this picture we can see that the drooping outer part of the front LEDs in profile. This design detail helps to make the side of the front bumper look slimmer and more analogous with the rear bumper that has the reflectors lower down. That's how it appears to my eyes at least.


    --

    "Form follows function"

     

    I do not argue taste. Like what you will, but clean shape? Look again... it's a longish profile (a la Jag XK), slightly hunchback (a la Panamera) with a bunch of weird creases and bulbous Toyota/Hyundai-looking headlights.

    Here is a clean shape:

     

    I like the 997.2 as much as you but I think with the new car Porsche have excelled themselves. There are always some fresh styling elements that take some time to get used to. Remember the debates even about the transition from 997 gen 1 to gen2, where changes were minimal. People resist change or they want change to be according to their own wishes.

    The shape is as clean as they come. Nothing in waste, nothing in excess merely for impression. I cannot see any similarity to the XK or to any other car myself. In a world full of busy recent designs from BMW and Mercedes the clean shape of the 991 is like a breath of fresh air

    The major changes in size were dictated by functional reasons, not for gimmickry. Larger passenger space, more stability through longer w/base, wider front track and engine little more front, various statutory regulations, mandatory in most markets. A typical Porsche philosophy of "Form follows Function".

    I'm sure the 991 will be your next car, very soon Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ADias, I think you are correct about the dynamics of the 911. It will be different, less frisky perhaps. But the Porsche fanatic world said the same thing when the 996/997 platform was introduced. Yet we all learned to embrace that new 911 platform eventhough it was longer and bigger. So I say let's moved on with times and accept embrace what is in front of us. If you want the rawness of older 911's, I'm sure Porsche will oblige with the GT3. As for the interior, I must be missing the point. To me, the 997 had everything that the new car has, just designed in a different way. It's not like 991 suddenly introduced satnav, climate control etc etc that wasn't on the 997. I have to admit though that it would look odd having a GT3 with chrome accents around the switches, but it sure won't stop me from buying one if it is faster and drives better than my 997.2 GT3.

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    SoCal Alan:
    Carrara:


    Give me a break guys! Give me a base Carrera with a manual and hardly any options and I'd be happy as can be!

     

    Nah.  Give me a fully loaded 991TT so I won't regret not ordering something later.  Smiley

     

     

    My kind of guy.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Trundle_GT3:

     Interesting, you can have the model name deleted, but "PORSCHE" lettering will remain!

    "911" may replace the model name

     If the letters are glued with '' sticky tape ''( as they are on any 997 models ) , one can just pull on them and they come off. The ' delete' option is  also a  ' do it yourself' 


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Damn 991.  It's already made my 997 look like an old piece of crap. SmileySmiley

    Now I finally know how 996 owners feel like when they see a 997. Smiley


    --
     

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    The 997 looks now like a '' classic'' . I must say after the first ' woaw' factor of the 991, I am liking the 997 shape again a lot , as it has still the typical roof line that goes way back in time.

    The 991 looks more modern and aggressive, but I think the 997 will be the next 993 Smiley

    13143400238061.jpg 13143400363342.jpg13143400547003.jpg13143400697164.jpg


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carlos from Spain:
    ADias:

    I do not need to drive it. Just look at it! Larger, GT luxury, ridiculous sunroof, electric e-brake, 20 inch rims, electric power-steering, overly complex curves/rear. The active roll-bars fit in a large sports sedan or SUV, not in a sports car. 

    A 993 owner could say the say thing about the 997... 

    100% agree, Carlos. Plus: the competition (Ferrari 458, California, McLaren, Audi, Lambo) etc. has the same features (ebrake, electrical steering, suspension electronics etc. etc.).

    In the end the electronics are irrelevant - if the car drives and feels like a 911 should drive and feel. So let's wait for the test drive Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Gnil:
    Trundle_GT3:

     Interesting, you can have the model name deleted, but "PORSCHE" lettering will remain!

    "911" may replace the model name

     If the letters are glued with '' sticky tape ''( as they are on any 997 models ) , one can just pull on them and they come off. The ' delete' option is  also a  ' do it yourself' 

    You can do whatever you like with the model names at the back. For example here it's Carrera S instead of 911 Carrera S:

    wallpaper2_1280.jpg

    Anyway the PORSCHE lettering at the back is not new:

    image-fotoshowImage-b9d531dd-196408.jpg


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    More Lime Gold pics.

    Lime Gold 7.JPG

    Lime Gold 8.JPG

    Lime Gold 9.JPG


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Interesting how much cleaner and more well balanced the 991 front looks compared to the 997TT Smiley 


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Is that a Turbo with a rollcage? You don't see those very often!


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    And the little bit wider front in combination with the LED lights running further to the sides  give it much stronger stance and look. I like it very much.


    --

    Matt C
    2009 997 GT3 Mk2  / 1988 911 3.2 Conv.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Porker:

    Is that a Turbo with a rollcage? You don't see those very often!

    A Porsche test car Smiley They do that for the safety of test drivers.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    991 is not only cleaner in terms of its front end looks from the 997, but they've used the Cayenne lightweight treatment and environment/fuel efficiency on it too.

    The weight saving gained by making it a 3.4L instead of 3.6L (Carrera), reduced rolling resistance, etc has made a downsize more potent! 350HP (257kW) from a naturally aspirated 3.4-litre six banger!!!!!

     


    --

    Current steeds in the stable and recently sold include: Porsche 996/911 (2004) '40 Jahre' Anniversary - 363bhp, Porsche-VW 914 (1973) 1.7 - 78bhp, Volkswagen Tiguan (2008) 2.0TFSi - 200bhp, Volkswagen Touareg (2009) V6 - 280bhp, Volkswagen Golf Mk3 (1993) VR6 - 189bhp


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    MKSGR:

    Interesting how much cleaner and more well balanced the 991 front looks compared to the 997TT Smiley 

    To be honest, I don't think that it is "fair" to compare the clean 991 with the cluttered front of the 997 turbo. A comparison to a normal 997.2 would be fairer.

    But; you're right, it is way cleaner than the turbo.


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    bobr:

    RC How about your official test drive report for the 991?

     

    We're in the process of trying to get a test car but unfortunately Porsche seems to be (officially) more interested in providing test cars for larger publications. Smiley

    Maybe we can manage something different but my hopes aren't too high. Many things have changed... Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ISUK:

    A pic of the rear seats.

    Rear seats.JPG

     

    Thanks a lot, I was waiting for this one. Smiley

    Unfortunately the rear space doesn't look as good as I expected, especially the back rest seems to be as uncomfortable as ever, horrible. I'm going to check that in the "real thing" but my hopes of more comfortable rear seats have been just crushed. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    RC:
    ISUK:

    A pic of the rear seats.


    Thanks a lot, I was waiting for this one. Smiley

    Unfortunately the rear space doesn't look as good as I expected, especially the back rest seems to be as uncomfortable as ever, horrible. I'm going to check that in the "real thing" but my hopes of more comfortable rear seats have been just crushed. Smiley

    Actually I'm really happy about it - imagine if they made them more practical - everyone would be driving 911's!


    --

    Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com


     
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